geekhack
geekhack Community => Input Devices => Topic started by: Ian Kelling on Fri, 14 June 2013, 01:28:06
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I'm modding my keyboard; adding scroll wheels to it, one for each hand. I'm looking for the perfect mouse scroll wheel. In my limited experience, I like the logitech mx 518 scroll wheel.
What I like about it: it has a clicky mechanical scroll action (not smooth), and it cannot come to rest anywhere in between 2 scrolling positions. This is good because I want to use it to quickly repeat a function an exact amount of times, (backspace, undo, select from a list, move cursor), and it is always a consistent finger motion needed. In comparison, every other mouse wheel I've tried can end up sitting in an unusual spot in between two scrolling positions which makes my scrolling inconsistent, and thus less confident, and thus slower.
Has noticed any other scroll wheels that work this way, or better? Perhaps a different one will have a better internal configuration for modding.
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I think I am going to initially use a small laptop mouse type scroll wheel because it can fit into existing spaces. If I like it enough, I will probably remove a key to fit a standard sized one. Any suggestions on small mouse wheels would be welcome too.
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The scroll wheel on the G700 is very nice!
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What about the trackball from Apple Mighty Mouse? Like this. (http://www.plastibots.com/?p=37)
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@davkol I don't think that'll work for the OP as he explicitly stated he likes the physical click
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I love my logitech g9 scroll wheel (especially the option from going from fast, smooth scrolling to the clicky kind you are talking about).
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I have always been a fan of the scroll wheels on some of the razer mice. Rubberized, wide and weighted, they feel great. Other mice that have similar wheels, like the Zowie FK also feel great to me.
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I like razer Lachesis' mamba's or Roccat kone's. Hate none clicky infinite scroll type.
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The best I have tested: Roccat Kone Plus
Worst: G9x. Awesome mouse but that scroll is too much stiff.
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The scroll wheel on the G700 is very nice!
this ^^
feels like a proper tool (sturdy precision etc.) and has a switch to go from notched-feeling-controlled scroll to very a loose free spin setting if you're into that.
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If you want to trash a mouse to get the scroll wheel, then the Logitech Couch Mouse has the nice switchable wheel. Think that's the cheapest option for hacking.
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The scroll wheel on the G700 is very nice!
this ^^
feels like a proper tool (sturdy precision etc.) and has a switch to go from notched-feeling-controlled scroll to very a loose free spin setting if you're into that.
this ^^
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I like the ones which offer switchable infinite-scroll versus stepped.
However, I find the one in my Logitech M500 is prone to too easily rolling back... could be how I hold it, or a function of the weighting or its sensitivity.
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For me, the best scroll wheel should belong to:
Logitech G5
SteelSeries Xai
I have tried:
Razer Abyssus
Roccat Kone +
But I don't like them as much as G5 and Xai
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Love the scroll wheel in my MX Performance Mouse, mainly because of the option to remove the click on it and allow the wheel to spin freely. Might be a wise choice if you can somehow implement that system into the keyboard as well!
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I like the one in my cst trackball better than any mouse wheel I've ever used.
Nice and wide, you can really walk your fingers on it.
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Any mouse wheel that doesn't have side 'buttons.' I quite like the one on that Logitech that has a free spin mode, and it comes in handy... well never, but it is fun.
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Any mouse wheel that doesn't have side 'buttons.' I quite like the one on that Logitech that has a free spin mode, and it comes in handy... well never, but it is fun.
It's great for scrolling quickly. You could drag the scroll bar, press page up or page down, or CTRL + F then search for terms to get you where you need in a long text file, but like you said it's not as fun as the free spin mode.
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Logitech g5 and g9x scroll wheels seem to me have had the best quality that I've come across. I'd avoid the G500: I tried it because of it's reputation but was shocked at the poor build quality: you could see the leds bleeding through the housing. Just awful.
Not a hard core gamer, just impressed with the quality of the mice above. My g5 still works, just got tired of looking at it after 5+ years.
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G500. I have a sensei at home, used a G9X, Deathadders, Intellimouse, and more. While I prefer the other mice for other things (such as gaming), the G500 is the best productivity wheel.
The hyperscroll (if you can/intend to implement it on your mod) works wonderfully when you need to scroll a long page, or a few hundred/thousand lines of code in an instant. It really saves a lot of time. The wheel when in "precise" mode has stopping points similar to what you referenced above - it doesn't get stuck in-between.
I don't know why anyone is commenting on the build-quality or LED bleed, etc of certain mice, since the OP just wants to steal a good scroll-wheel for a keyboard. G500s are relatively cheap, and really easy to take apart, too. The hyperscroll button being on top would make it easier to integrate into your design also.
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I really like the wheel on my Razer Naga.
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Of the mice I have.
Logitech g700 = best. Good all around.
Zowie FK = ok. Just have to get used to it.
Logitech g9x = worst. I use it for drafting because of the weight. But the middle clicking is what is really horrible.
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I'm modding my keyboard; adding scroll wheels to it, one for each hand. I'm looking for the perfect mouse scroll wheel.
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Has noticed any other scroll wheels that work this way, or better? Perhaps a different one will have a better internal configuration for modding.
The best mouse in my experience is the Razer Deathadder Black Edition. Part of the reason for this choice is that I like the scroll wheel in this mouse better than any other mouse I have tried, including various models from Apple, Dell, HP, IBM, Kensington, Logitech, Microsoft, and Razer. Nevertheless, for what you have in mind, a trackball might be better.
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Pretty much all mice I have encountered have used a design which allows you to adjust the haptic feedbacks. The tactile bump of each step as you scroll can be adjusted as well as the pressure required to press middle mouse button. I made a post way back describing how I did it with my mx500: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34845
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Logitech g9x = worst. I use it for drafting because of the weight. But the middle clicking is what is really horrible.
I rebound the sidescrolling to middle click, it's quite nice.
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I would say G9x or G500 mouse wheel.
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Most of the mouse scroll wheels I’ve seen make discrete clicks, and the little encoders they use to measure the rotation use little plastic spokes between a light source and a little sensor, w/ a fairly low resolution limited by the number of spokes.
This completely sucks in comparison to two-finger scrolling on an apple trackpad, which has very fine resolution and can scroll one pixel at a time. I do however like the finger movement of the spinning wheel.
So my question is:
Are there any mice which use a continuous feel and higher resolution sensor for their scroll wheel? Do they send commands to scroll to the OS that are more granular than just a "scroll down by one click" that the other wheels use [e.g. by doing whatever USB communication the Apple trackpads do to scroll a pixel at a time]?
I plan to take a mouse wheel, rip it out of a mouse, and wire it up / send USB protocol via a Teensy board or similar, so what I care about up front is as high a resolution sensor I can get for reasonable price, and then I can figure out how to decrease the resolution later if necessary. I haven’t investigated the details of the USB mouse protocol or what Apple does differently, but I assume it’s at least possible to mimic.
Given a new constraint like that, any advice?
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I don't have any solutions for you, because I'm not savvy on all of the inner workings of what's involved.
I do however have a question.
I assume a trackball would have a much more accurate sensor, and so I'm wondering if it would be possible to install a trackball in your keyboard, maybe run a rod straight down the center (top to bottom) to lock it on that axis, and then program it to read the spinning of the trackball (clockwise vs counterclockwise) to scroll up or down.
Now, finding cheap trackballs shouldn't be hard, but I don't know how much extra work this might be, and it would be a pain in the ass finding a place for it on your keyboard, but would this even be possible?
Good luck in your search.
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Perhaps use something pot/resistor/induction based like analog sticks from a gamepad or a spinner?
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I assume a trackball would have a much more accurate sensor, and so I'm wondering if it would be possible to install a trackball in your keyboard, maybe run a rod straight down the center (top to bottom) to lock it on that axis, and then program it to read the spinning of the trackball (clockwise vs counterclockwise) to scroll up or down.
Sure, that should be possible, but I think a trackball will necessarily take a bit more space than a scroll wheel, so it can’t be mounted in as many places.
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Most accurate so far (I've tried a LOT of mice.) is Steelseries mice. They use really good, tactile mouse wheels. Not cheap mice though.
Edit;
I've used (and loved) the SS Sensei and Xai.
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I always liked the smooth surface rubber and clicky scroll wheel on the MX510/G400/G100 series of Logitech mice. Much better than the heavier scroll wheels I've used on the G500/G700/G9x or the textured plastic ones on Microsoft mice.
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everyone hates the g9 wheel but i actually like it. i have a g9 at work and a g9x at home. i agree that its pretty stiff but it starts to soften up after the more you use it.
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Logitech mice that have the hyperscroll :P
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I'm looking for the perfect mouse scroll wheel. In my limited experience
I have a Logitech m525 wheel. The problem is the wheel reports ticks even when I am not touching it. It is worse if I am moving the mouse. Further, it also impossible to click the middle mouse button (the wheel) without registering some rotations. This makes it impossible to use for copy/paste. It drives me crazy. Multiples choice boxes change all by themselves unless I tip toe around very carefully with the mouse, even when the cursor is nowhere near the selections box. I have wondered if it might be possible to compensate using software. Freezing box scrolling when the cursor is far away.
Proper mouse wheel software should accelerate as you whip the mouse wheel several times is the same direction. My finger gets tired scrolling a whole page.
Further, mouse cursor software should become less and less sensitive when you start making micro movements trying to home in on some pixel.
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The G502 mouse wheel is pretty good. I never had a problem with the weight or 'slippiness' of it but others have. It also has the hyper-scroll but I personally never used it.
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It also has the hyper-scroll but I personally never used it.
What's the matter with you boy, ignoring the ONLY feature that makes owning a Logitech mouse worth while?
I would give up on Ebay if I couldn't use at least one of their models with inbuilt 'hyper-scoll' and I mean the free wheeling ability for the scroll to keep on working in either direction :thumb: .
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But the metal scroll wheel means that it's heavy and it wobbles a little when you shake your mouse.
That being said though ... almost every mouse's scroll wheel starts slightly wobbling within 3 months anyways.
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Once the G9's wheel is broken in, it feels really good.
Most people will think I'm crazy, but I like the Microsoft WMO/IME scroll wheels lmao.
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Once the g9's wheel actually breaks though (it won't be long) :p
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Once the g9's wheel actually breaks though (it won't be long) :p
You can buy at anytime, brand NEW scroll wheels off Ebay. Hence enjoy your G9x for years to cume :thumb: .
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Enjoy your crappy dome buttons.
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MX Revolution is the ONLY hyper-scroll wheel worth owning. Others are stupid: have to press a button to switch. And even worse when the ****ing button is on the bottom of the mouse. Auto-switch is life.
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It also has the hyper-scroll but I personally never used it.
What's the matter with you boy, ignoring the ONLY feature that makes owning a Logitech mouse worth while?
I would give up on Ebay if I couldn't use at least one of their models with inbuilt 'hyper-scoll' and I mean the free wheeling ability for the scroll to keep on working in either direction :thumb: .
Lol. I don't use it for spread sheets and pressing space or pgdown is a little easier for reddit or anything of the sort.
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Best I've ever had is on the Razer Deathadder Black Edition. Excellent scroll wheel that is also easy to click as a middle button.
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Best scroll wheel is on the MX Revolution, it switches automatically when you flick it fast!!!
Other logitech freescroll wheels are pretty stiff and terrible when not on freescroll mode.
The Roccat Titan Wheel on the Kone pure/XTD sounds pretty good from what i heard.
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The Roccat Titan Wheel on the Kone pure/XTD sounds pretty good from what i heard.
It's near unbreakable because that rodent wheel will last way longer than most. Roccat are making some good sh1t these days :thumb: .