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geekhack Community => Other Geeky Stuff => Topic started by: SOROBORU88 on Sun, 16 June 2013, 03:31:04
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Hello everyone, I've started to use a desktop PC and currently I'm using a Turtlebeach X11 xbox headset to produce soud. But the background noise (which is somehow typical for this kind of headsets) is killing me.
Would someone recommend good but cheap USB DAC to use with my Sennheiser PX100 II? I use microphone very occasionally, so there is no reason to use headset and I don't like loud music so no reason to use speakers. And my MB sound output is horrible by the way...
Thank you very much :)
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The Shiit Modi has a USB input. I have the Bifrost, which I pair with my Lyr amp and I love them both dearly.
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Thought I said "cheap" :D I can't even get it here in the Czech Republic :D But thanks, looks great. If I only wasn't such a savage...
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Do you already have an Amp? It also looks like a pretty generic headphone (a headset at that), so I'm not sure how worthy a DAC would be for a SQ to price ratio. I'd recommend either going for a better headset (purchase decent hi-fi headphones an attachable mic), or going for an Amp. Getting a DAC seems overkill for a $30 headset.
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Good point. Apart the Turtlebeach, they are just temporary, that's why I'm searching for DAC with volume control - something for my senns. My senns are 50 USD worth, they are light open headphones, since I don't like the feeling that I'm isolated from my surroundings. I would buy a headset (something like steelseries or whatever), but I only listen to music and youtube vids. And when I play DOTA or LOL I usually don't communicate :D
I found this, worth 50 USD: http://www.sluchatka.net/behringer-uca-222/
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DACs are generally made to be paired with a Amp. After all, their output source is not meant for headphones at all, though I guess you can cheat by using some adapter cable. If you want to save money, you can try looking for some Amp/DAC combos, but yeah, in terms of getting the most bang out of your buck, it goes: Headphones > Amp > DAC. Don't have good headphones or an amp? Don't get a DAC. :)
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Maybe a FiiO or a NuForce then? There's a bunch of models that range from about $50-100 USD. The FiiO E07k or E7 are both decent models.
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I have a pretty nice DAC for my headphones but I also have a Fiio D3 I use for my TV and speakers that works perfectly! Should help eliminate the noise you're getting.
http://www.amazon.com/D3-Digital-Converter-Optical-Toslink/dp/B005K2TXMO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1371377340&sr=8-1&keywords=fiio+d3
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OK OK, I think I'm too dumb :D I was thinking something like FiiO E10 OLYMPUS. Connected with PC via USB. Clear soun from PC via this FiiO to the headphones. Manual volume controll.
I saw a video with this FiiO. Dude was using his Mac, plugged the FiiO to the Mac, plugged headphones to the FiiO and listened to music. Mac didn't use speakers.
I have PC and android phone, I don't need amp with iPhone support.
Thank you for all your answers. You are very helpful :)
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I have a pretty nice DAC for my headphones but I also have a Fiio D3 I use for my TV and speakers that works perfectly! Should help eliminate the noise you're getting.
http://www.amazon.com/D3-Digital-Converter-Optical-Toslink/dp/B005K2TXMO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1371377340&sr=8-1&keywords=fiio+d3
Pretty cool, it's small, I like it :) But where is the volume ccontroll?
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It seems to me you might be better to get a USB soundcard, maybe something like this:
(http://globestaronline.com/wp-content/uploads/products_img/creative_sbpro.jpg)
I would guess these or something similar should be available locally.
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Well, it seemed to me at first, but since the desktop's MB will have a soundcard, there is no need for external soundcard. This is FiiO E10 review:
I would like to have something similar. Only cheaper, if it is possible. I want to use it with my desktop PC. I don't want to buy speakers or expensive heavy headset.
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You can't really go any cheaper than $75 for an Amp/DAC combo without it being plain snake oil.. Entry-level DACs are generally at $100 alone.
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Hmm, truth 2 dat. Question is, if it is worth to buy a AMP and DAC combo (as you say), or just pick considerably good headset and plug it to the MB. Only thing I know is, that I don't want to use speakers.
I love to browse through the media section and look at the pictures of your setups. I like the setups with AMPS/DACS, they are nice and clean. I recently bought this headphones and they are the best I have ever had. Even when they are quite cheap.
I thought I could use them with the Fiio E10 or something similar.
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Fiio E11 or something like that at sluchatka.net. It's the easiest choice.
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I was thinking FiiO E10 from the beginning. I just thought, that there would be something cheaper :D If I chose E10, would my headphones (Sennheiser PX100 II) be propriate? Or should I consider buying new ones?
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PX100 don't really benefit from dedicated amp, you only get rid of background noise. If you upgrade to some better cans, E10 will probably still be enough to drive them.
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If you just want a solid amp/dac combo that will future-proof you if you buy better headphones just get in on the massdrop E17 buy, I think they're just $90 now, which is amazing. I would've picked one up if I actually had a portable setup -_-
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I understand. I have overestimated my senns :D I'm not really in the mood to buy new headphones since my senns are precisely what I want. I have considered a good quality headset, but what I've read, almost all of current gaming headsets suffer from the background noise (like my TB X11). This is a kind of thing I hate and keeps me off using this headset. But I do like the volume controll on the remote on the headset cable. That's why I like the Fiio E10.
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If you just want a solid amp/dac combo that will future-proof you if you buy better headphones just get in on the massdrop E17 buy, I think they're just $90 now, which is amazing. I would've picked one up if I actually had a portable setup -_-
I've looked into that. Unfortunately, it was $130 including shipping and VAT IIRC. E17 can be had for $170 here—with two-year EU warranty, and shipped in 24 hours. I'm not really sure, if that massdrop is worth it.
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If you're just looking to get pass your noisy computer, then something like the hifimediy dac (http://hifimediy.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=62&product_id=83) would do. Otherwise I'd probably go for the E07k over the e10. Better specs and more features for just a little bit more money.
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Looks good, thanks :)
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Np! Let us know what you decide to go with :D
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Surely I will :D But it seems, that buying E10 is too much for my PX100 and new headphones should be cans, which I don't like very much.
I would like to have something with direct volume controll knob. I like that feature both on E10 and gaming headsets. But since I don't game very often, gaming headset is also a waste of money for me. But I'm open to suggestions :)
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If you're looking for a new pair of headphones, post your preferences and budget over at the headphones thread and perhaps me and a couple of other people can give you suggestions.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=13775.msg931365#msg931365
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Asus is coming out with what looks like a really nice USB DAC soon, here's a link...
https://www.asus.com/Sound_Cards_and_DigitaltoAnalog_Converters/Xonar_Essence_STU/
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I've tried the E-MU 0404 and it did not reduce noise. Same with a bunch of other stuff.
However, I have had luck with 2 sound cards. The Sound Blaster Live! and the Asus Xonar Essence STX. Both completely eliminated the noise I was getting over the PCI bus.
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I've tried the E-MU 0404 and it did not reduce noise. Same with a bunch of other stuff.
However, I have had luck with 2 sound cards. The Sound Blaster Live! and the Asus Xonar Essence STX. Both completely eliminated the noise I was getting over the PCI bus.
Ok, nice solution as well. And I assume, you use a headset, rigt?
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I came with an idea. If I want to use the FiiO E10, which pretty much suits my needs (volume knob, connects directly via USB, no features I don't need), whould headphones would you all agree would be best to use with it? Assuming, they must be entry level and not much expensive :D
Thank you all :)
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Budgets and music preferences? Recommending something will be a little be harder since you live outside the U.S.
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Understood. Music genre is different, since I listen to almost every genre there is, from pop across rock to dub step. Lately I've become fond of indie music (that should mean I like it :D ).
Budget is 150 USD is top max, I woul rather to have headphones around the 100 USD limit. But I've found Grado Prestige SR60i. Look good and they use the same open system like my Sennheiser PX100 II.
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If you're happy with soldering and can source all the components then you could probably just build an O2 (http://www.jdslabs.com/item.php?fetchitem=O2PCB) and buy an ODAC (http://www.jdslabs.com/item.php?fetchitem=39) for your $150.
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The grado sr60i or sr80i is a decent choice, but its not a great all-rounder. It has a very aggressive sound signature with emphasized treble. It will lack bass for some of the music that you may listen to but I guess since you're coming from the px-100 ii, then it is about the same. Hmm, well yeah should be a decent upgrade then. But I'd recommend trying them out before buying if you can, since you might be sensitive to the treble. Or buy from a place with a good return policy.
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The grado sr60i or sr80i is a decent choice, but its not a great all-rounder. It has a very aggressive sound signature with emphasized treble. It will lack bass for some of the music that you may listen to but I guess since you're coming from the px-100 ii, then it is about the same. Hmm, well yeah should be a decent upgrade then. But I'd recommend trying them out before buying if you can, since you might be sensitive to the treble. Or buy from a place with a good return policy.
Also, having tried them first hand, they aren't that comfortable either... those ear pads are just bloody weird... Circumaural all the way baby!
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I can't try ANY headphones here in the Czech Republic. Local shop don't offer this service, since czech people tend to steal and local sellers are not customer friendly and most of them are dumb as f***. This is how it is.
I saw a picture in one of your posts in the desk setups. It was picture with a table and two silver speakers, which had a remote controll on the cable and there was a volume knob (nice!) and I believe there was also a 3,5 input jack.
Is it possible? It might be enough for me. Maybe better and cheaper choice than AMP and new headphones.
(I am sorry for my behavior, once it's a 100 USD worth DAC and 150 USD worth heaphones and then it's cheap speakers. It's because I don't know all the possible solutions of managing the computer setup other than inside the case setup. Once again, sorry.)
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Whose picture? Maybe link it so i have a better idea of what you're talking about. That's unfortunate that you can't try out any headphones in your local stores =/.
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Sir/Madam, I wouldn't even want to try. I don't want to risk getting cooties (??? - We say "breberky") and even if there is possibility, it would probably be overused product, not giving an exact performance.
Therefore I will buy anything you recommend.
I don't remember the picture, it is far too deep in the thread. There is another picture attached. In the thread it was a 2.0 set (I think). Probably a normal set of computer speakers with remote controll on the cable feature.
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Ahh I see. I wouldn't recommend plugging your headphones into the volume control of a set of speakers as the headphone out is very noisy there. What is the price of the sr60i, sr80i, and HD 558 over there? If you can squeeze out some extra money for the senns, then those would be better upg than the grados imo. There's also the ath ad700 which are open, but fairly large. They lack bass, from what I've read, but probably better all-founders than the grados. There are also some in-line volume cables that you can get too, such as the following:
http://www.amazon.com/Koss-155954-VC20-Volume-Control/dp/B00001P4XH/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1371569824&sr=8-2&keywords=in+line+volume+cable
Lemme know if any of those are to your liking. Oh, and it's sir :P
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Sennheiser HD 558 I can buy for 148 USD + shipping. I would rather choose Sennheisers. I understand, that Audio Technica's headphones are quite popular, but they are far to expensive for me and myy needs.
This type of volume controll seems too amateur to me, I could solder something like that by myself :D I liked the DAC idea because of the clarity of the sound and the direct volume controll.
If the speakers are out, which I expected, the only solution of better sound and easy acces to volume controll is to buy USB DAC and headphones.
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Okay great! Once (if) you get the hd 558, you can do this simple mod (http://www.headfonia.com/sennheisers-new-hd558-and-hd598/3/) to make it sound better. How much money will you have left after the headphones for a dac/amp?
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I can't try ANY headphones here in the Czech Republic. Local shop don't offer this service, since czech people tend to steal and local sellers are not customer friendly and most of them are dumb as f***. This is how it is.
Except you can. (http://www.sluchatka.net/zapujceni/)
At about ~100 EUR, you're limited to HD 518/558, ATH-AD500 and SR60. I have HD 565, ATs and grados... my recommendation is HD 5x8 because of comfort and sound signature.
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I can't try ANY headphones here in the Czech Republic. Local shop don't offer this service, since czech people tend to steal and local sellers are not customer friendly and most of them are dumb as f***. This is how it is.
Except you can. (http://www.sluchatka.net/zapujceni/)
At about ~100 EUR, you're limited to HD 518/558, ATH-AD500 and SR60. I have HD 565, ATs and grados... my recommendation is HD 5x8 because of comfort and sound signature.
Sincerely, I didn't know about this service and I have headphones from this shop. I will announce my intentions to my wallet and begin the negotiation.
But if the negotiation would fail, I prepared the plan B. This: http://www.czc.cz/creative-labs-gigaworks-t20-series-ii_2/61827/produkt?q-c-0-f_2025863=s2.0&q-category-id=0bqs53vn1uj5caci4i1qdjta39&q-c-1-price=r260-2000&q-c-2-producer=sfsj1ie63a8f1lbr5vis0875387
I believe it's the way of minimal resistance, as we Czechs sometimes say.
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Okay great! Once (if) you get the hd 558, you can do this simple mod (http://www.headfonia.com/sennheisers-new-hd558-and-hd598/3/) to make it sound better. How much money will you have left after the headphones for a dac/amp?
Well, it would be the biggiest investment I have ever done. I would probably wait for some time and hope that the price will go down a little. Therefore I would settle it for FiiO E10 as a USB DAC and Sennheiser HD 558 for headphones.
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Okay great! Once (if) you get the hd 558, you can do this simple mod (http://www.headfonia.com/sennheisers-new-hd558-and-hd598/3/) to make it sound better. How much money will you have left after the headphones for a dac/amp?
Well, it would be the biggiest investment I have ever done. I would probably wait for some time and hope that the price will go down a little. Therefore I would settle it for FiiO E10 as a USB DAC and Sennheiser HD 558 for headphones.
Keep an eye on the price of the HD 558's on Amazon as well as B&H Photo. They usually have great prices on headphones and Amazon is where I got my HD 555s for a really awesome price.
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Not sure Amazon ships free to the Czech Republic.
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Okay great! Once (if) you get the hd 558, you can do this simple mod (http://www.headfonia.com/sennheisers-new-hd558-and-hd598/3/) to make it sound better. How much money will you have left after the headphones for a dac/amp?
Well, it would be the biggiest investment I have ever done. I would probably wait for some time and hope that the price will go down a little. Therefore I would settle it for FiiO E10 as a USB DAC and Sennheiser HD 558 for headphones.
Sounds good. PM or post in headphone thread if you have any more questions.
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I've tried the E-MU 0404 and it did not reduce noise. Same with a bunch of other stuff.
However, I have had luck with 2 sound cards. The Sound Blaster Live! and the Asus Xonar Essence STX. Both completely eliminated the noise I was getting over the PCI bus.
Ok, nice solution as well. And I assume, you use a headset, rigt?
Yeah, was using high sensitivity headphones. Oh, I use Sennheiser HD600 now.
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Well, I have a heretic idea. I was browsing through one of local seller's store and found this: http://www.czc.cz/creative-tactic3d-sigma/85219/produkt?q-c-1-f_2029674=sUSB&q-c-0-f_2026451=t1&q-category-id=6obmvalisihgeaj3manv5d3vg1&q-c-2-price=r200-2000
It' connected via USB, using a mini soud card, it has a volume control on the cable a nd it looks comfy. If only it was possible tu turn off the 3D sound effect.
What would you say?
I checked my bank account and the DAC and headphones are a faraway dream :( So the USB headset is one way, or a normal speakers and I can use my senns for a quiet setting with te speakers.
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I think if you don't use the THX usb dongle, then you will just get normal stereo sound. I can't say much about the sound quality, but I wouldn't be surprised if the px 100 II was on-par or better than a gaming headset.
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I was afraid you would say that. I liked the USB mini soundcard for clear sound. However, this headset is clearly made for games where 3D effect is mandatory.
If just bought Creativ usb soundcard, like this (http://www.czc.cz/creative-sound-blaster-play/66773/produkt?q-category-id=47obq3p5oqh2q88pjh1qhvsoka)and the random headset. Would I get clear sound without background noise?
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I have a plantronics USB "soundcard" basically stereo out and mic in. I am looking forward to replacing it since I've switched from a cheap headphone amp to a Pimeta v2 I built. With the new amp I can hear the background hiss from the dongle and I don't like it. I don't know how much better/worse that CL dongle might be, but I don't expect much.
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I'd recommend going for an internal soundcard over a USB one. What are your options for a internal soundcard from the store?
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The gain from the Pimeta v2 could be the cause of the background hiss, if you are using more sensitive headphones rather than from the plntronics usb soundcard itself.
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With no input my Pimeta at 85% or less is dead silent. Need to figure out where the buzz in 1 channel is above that. Of course, I don't need 85% unless I want to bleed.
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I'd recommend going for an internal soundcard over a USB one. What are your options for a internal soundcard from the store?
Pretty much the basic http://www.czc.cz/zvukove-karty/produkty But I wouldn't buy something with Xfi, since I won't use it or appreciate it in games.
I also found these: http://www.czc.cz/creative-labs-gigaworks-t20-series-ii_2/61827/produkt?q-c-0-f_2025863=s2.0&q-category-id=0bqs53vn1uj5caci4i1qdjta39&q-c-1-producer=sfsj1ie63a8f1lbr5vis0875387
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Go for the xonar DG (http://www.czc.cz/asus-xonar-dg_2/80294/produkt). it is a much better than the usb soundcard if you're going to be using a desktop. Soundcards aren't just for gaming; they're also used for dacs, which can be decent for their price. I'm not too familiar with speakers, so I can't say much about the t20.
@alaricljs, the noise could just be from the USB interface itself.
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OK, this looks good. And what headset would you recommend? I don't think I should use this SC with my senns and cord extension. The headset with long cable and volume control on the cable would be better choise IMHO.
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Im not sure, I assumed that you would just use your px 100 II with the sound card. You could try using autohotkey to bind some keys to control your volume. Then you could just save your money up for something better later.
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Oh, I see I didn't get you at the first time :) The card seems perfet and what I've read it even includes built in amp. But with my PX100 I will need a cord extension, since their cable is ment for a mp3 player and therefore it is quite short :D
My Keycool has it's own key binds to control volume and to mute the volume. So I can use them.
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Ahh okay so that's what you meant. Yeah, just get an extension cable or you could get that koss cable w/ the volume control as well.
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Ahh okay so that's what you meant. Yeah, just get an extension cable or you could get that koss cable w/ the volume control as well.
That's right! I almost forgot ;)
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OK, assume, that I will buy the sound card. When I have enough money and buy for example Sennheiser HD 518, can I plug them directly to the soundcard and listen to them?
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Yep, you could also use the sound card as a dac-only and plug an external amp to it, or use the sound card's optical out to output to a dac/amp as well.
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Yep, you could also use the sound card as a dac-only and plug an external amp to it, or use the sound card's optical out to output to a dac/amp as well.
No no, I mean, if I can just plug better headphones in the soundcard.
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Yes, of course.
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Great, thank you for that advic :)
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One more question, if I use the sound card and connect the headset with signinificant background noise (when connected MB sound output), would the background noise disappear? Or it doesn't work that way?
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Yes, the sound card should be less noisy than the mobo's built in amp/dac. Only one way to find out!
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OK, I have a little bit old gaming headset. I will try it right after my senns :)
But check out this cute little thingy: http://www.czc.cz/fiio-d5/131115/produkt?q-c-0-productType=sP%C5%99%C3%ADslu%C5%A1enstv%C3%AD
What do you think?
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OK, I have a little bit old gaming headset. I will try it right after my senns :)
But check out this cute little thingy: http://www.czc.cz/fiio-d5/131115/produkt?q-c-0-productType=sP%C5%99%C3%ADslu%C5%A1enstv%C3%AD
What do you think?
Never mind, the reviews are too bad for this little guy :D The sound card for the same price is much better and more quality solution ;)
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Best part about the xonar DG is that it also supports dolby headphone, which you can enable for gaming.
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Sounds great (no pun intended). From what I've read so far good sound card is the basic. Even though D90 is a basic model.
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...or you could just get an used SB Live. Usually 10 EUR shipped, and sounds great (especially considering the price).
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...or you could just get an used SB Live. Usually 10 EUR shipped, and sounds great (especially considering the price).
Thank you for your advice, good Sir. But I don't have a good experience buying used items. The Xonar DG looks just fine and the price is great.
I was reading some threads on head-fi, or overclock, I don't know, but I found these headphones: Audio-Technica ATH-AD500.
I would like the know the comparison between those and Sennheiser HD518.
I personally like Sennheiser, but I saw many of those purple Audio-Technicas in many pictures around many keyboard phorums...
Second thing, when I have xonar, does it work with those external AMPS/DACS? Or the soundcard can't be used with external devices, since external devices takes the signal via USB?
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I have the ATH-AD500. It's f-ing huge and doesn't fit on my small head without a mod (http://www.head-fi.org/t/505053/audio-technica-ath-ad700-fit-and-comfort-mod); otherwise, it's considered to be one of the most comfortable pairs of headphones (same design as AD700). The sound is very neutral, with big sound stage and weak bass. I like that for orchestral/ambient/folk music, but definitely not metal.
Based on my experience with HD 565, I guess HD 558 would be better universal cans.
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Well, that escalated quickly :D But 558 are so damn expensive around here! What about HD518?
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I used to ask the same question, but I was told they were much worse.
HD 558 aren't that much more expensive than say AD500. 3 kCZK vs. 2.6 kCZK.
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Well, I did some research and you were right (as always ;) ). I could get them for 3k CZK, but only if I knew, that they won't be an overkill for Xonar DG. But I like the fact, that they are considered "allaround".
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So what did you end up getting?
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So what did you end up getting?
Nothing yet :( I had problems with furniture, had to buy new table for my dad and my notebook went bat-**** crazy... But Xonar and Senns are still a number one option ;)
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Ahh I see, sorry to hear that :(
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Nothing to by sorry about :) Helping my father is always my prime concern :D And it was because of computer/notebook switcheroo. The idea of headphones was just postponed ;) Notebook seems fine, it stopped to overheat so I assume it's ok ;)
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In case you're still looking, pay attention to Massdrop for DACs, Amps, and sound gear all in all. Get stuff at a nice discount. They'll be running the Aune T1 GB again soon enough and there'll be enough people in that one to get that back down to 109.99 again. That's the best bang for your buck IMO. I got one myself and I absolutely love it. Check it out.
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In case you're still looking, pay attention to Massdrop for DACs, Amps, and sound gear all in all. Get stuff at a nice discount. They'll be running the Aune T1 GB again soon enough and there'll be enough people in that one to get that back down to 109.99 again. That's the best bang for your buck IMO. I got one myself and I absolutely love it. Check it out.
I was thinking of joining the E17&E9K massdrops, but even the lowest price wasn't worth it, if I considered shipping to the Czech Republic, VAT and lack of warranty.
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In case you're still looking, pay attention to Massdrop for DACs, Amps, and sound gear all in all. Get stuff at a nice discount. They'll be running the Aune T1 GB again soon enough and there'll be enough people in that one to get that back down to 109.99 again. That's the best bang for your buck IMO. I got one myself and I absolutely love it. Check it out.
I was thinking of joining the E17&E9K massdrops, but even the lowest price wasn't worth it, if I considered shipping to the Czech Republic, VAT and lack of warranty.
The Aune is back up and already at the lowest price tier. If you want a great sounding DAC Amp combo, that's your (anyone's) best choice. I believe it still carries manufacturers warranty.
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Yeah, I sure do want to ship stuff abroad in case something breaks.
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The Aune T1s are made in China.
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Xonar DX should be at the absolute bottom of your list, period. Buggy drivers, extremely low quality components, extremely bad frequency response clipping and gapping. It is complete and utter crap.
If you want a good, reliable sound card for high quality sound your choices are M-Audio Audiophile 192 (strictly 2/2 pro audio and DO NOT use for gaming, amp required as well) or an HT|OMEGA (http://www.htomega.com/). I've been using HT|OMEGA for a number of years and not only are the rock solid reliable, the sound quality is flat out unmatchable even before you swap the OpAmps, and the price is lower because you're not paying for marketing budget and hype.
And this is true of all HT|OMEGAs cards. I'm running a Striker 5.1 in one system for near-pro (it's a little weak on the high), Claro II for semi-pro, and I used to listen to the Halo XT (that's the version with the headphone amp) daily.
Honestly, you might be better off going with the Halo XT (http://www.htomega.com/clarohalo_xt.html) since it's got all the bits in it already. I've been poking around at the various USB DACs for several weeks now, and they're just not very good. Not till you start dropping several hundred dollars or accept a ridiculous amount of latency.