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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: llovro on Sat, 22 June 2013, 09:04:56

Title: why do we like korean customs but they don't like our customs?
Post by: llovro on Sat, 22 June 2013, 09:04:56
We are all crazy on those nice korean custom keyboards, but why don't koreans like our custom boards? If you ask me, phantom is superior to any other korean pcb (it supports all possible layouts while some popular korean pcbs don't even support both winkey and winkeyless).
Same thing is for gh60. Is it because we don't have custom cases? Is it because no one introduced korean community to our customs?
Discuss.
Title: Re: why do we like korean customs but they don't like our customs?
Post by: Jocelyn on Sat, 22 June 2013, 09:12:21
Zenuty bought a GH60 :)
Title: Re: why do we like korean customs but they don't like our customs?
Post by: Photekq on Sat, 22 June 2013, 09:13:39
Very little custom cases so far. Let's face it the real reason we love korean customs is not the programmability etc it's their beautiful aluminium cases. When we have some cases I'm sure they'll care :p

The Phantom & GH60 PCBs are superior to their PCBs in my eyes aswell since I don't care about LEDs but I like the fact they support loads of layouts.
Title: Re: why do we like korean customs but they don't like our customs?
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sat, 22 June 2013, 09:16:14
Quote from: Photekq on Sat, 22 June 2013, 09:13:39
Very little custom cases so far. Let's face it the real reason we love korean customs is not the programmability etc it's their beautiful aluminium cases. When we have some cases I'm sure they'll care :p

The Phantom & GH60 PCBs are superior to their PCBs in my eyes aswell since I don't care about LEDs but I like the fact they support loads of layouts.

Because they haven't seen Photekq's cases ;)
Title: Re: why do we like korean customs but they don't like our customs?
Post by: Photekq on Sat, 22 June 2013, 09:19:15
Quote from: ray4jc on Sat, 22 June 2013, 09:16:14
Because they haven't seen Photekq's cases ;)
Heh.

Quote from: Photekq on Sat, 22 June 2013, 09:13:39
Very little custom cases so far.

;)

Speaking of which : E.T.A 5 minutes.
Title: Re: why do we like korean customs but they don't like our customs?
Post by: Jocelyn on Sat, 22 June 2013, 09:30:13
Quote from: Photekq on Sat, 22 June 2013, 09:13:39
Very little custom cases so far. Let's face it the real reason we love korean customs is not the programmability etc it's their beautiful aluminium cases. When we have some cases I'm sure they'll care :p

The Phantom & GH60 PCBs are superior to their PCBs in my eyes aswell since I don't care about LEDs but I like the fact they support loads of layouts.

This^ You can't get a PLA Poker case (below) or Duck Poker case from anywhere other than Korea :)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img18/4733/80lx.jpg)
Title: Re: why do we like korean customs but they don't like our customs?
Post by: Photekq on Sat, 22 June 2013, 09:32:01
Quote from: Jocelyn on Sat, 22 June 2013, 09:30:13
This^ You can't get a PLA Poker case (below) or Duck Poker case from anywhere other than Korea :)

Show Image
(http://imageshack.us/a/img18/4733/80lx.jpg)

Jeez joce' stop teasing me with all that grey and CMYK!
Title: Re: why do we like korean customs but they don't like our customs?
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sat, 22 June 2013, 09:32:37
Is it just easier/cheaper to get things manufactured in Korea, or perhaps its just more demand?

I'm sure in larger urban area there are CNC shops etc in the USA but I've found nothing in my local area.
Title: Re: why do we like korean customs but they don't like our customs?
Post by: kmiller8 on Sat, 22 June 2013, 10:45:08
Because Korean boards are just better. Instead of having to make a mediocre PCB that supports 532 different layouts to appease everyone, the koreans are able to make a really really good pcb that supports 4 layouts.
Title: Re: why do we like korean customs but they don't like our customs?
Post by: Photekq on Sat, 22 June 2013, 10:46:52
Quote from: kmiller8 on Sat, 22 June 2013, 10:45:08
Because Korean boards are just better. Instead of having to make a mediocre PCB that supports 532 different layouts to appease everyone, the koreans are able to make a really really good pcb that supports 4 layouts.
What korean pcb supports 4 layouts? And how are they better aside from LED support?
Title: Re: why do we like korean customs but they don't like our customs?
Post by: gameaholic on Sat, 22 June 2013, 10:54:16
Quote from: Jocelyn on Sat, 22 June 2013, 09:30:13
Quote from: Photekq on Sat, 22 June 2013, 09:13:39
Very little custom cases so far. Let's face it the real reason we love korean customs is not the programmability etc it's their beautiful aluminium cases. When we have some cases I'm sure they'll care :p

The Phantom & GH60 PCBs are superior to their PCBs in my eyes aswell since I don't care about LEDs but I like the fact they support loads of layouts.

This^ You can't get a PLA Poker case (below) or Duck Poker case from anywhere other than Korea :)

Show Image
(http://imageshack.us/a/img18/4733/80lx.jpg)


Nice case!  I was wondering what case that was.  How much do they usually sell for?  What other colors do they come in?
Title: Re: why do we like korean customs but they don't like our customs?
Post by: kmiller8 on Sat, 22 June 2013, 11:00:48
Quote from: Photekq on Sat, 22 June 2013, 10:46:52
What korean pcb supports 4 layouts? And how are they better aside from LED support?

I used 4, when I should have said few. I was making an exaggeration as to how Korean PCB's are designed for one or two usage scenarios, while things like the phantom has a lot more layouts. I'm obviously not speaking for all PCB's from korea, but I think I was looking at the A.87 PCB's and they're just better thought out, having the ability for 3 types of diodes and LED and having a controller soldered on board.

but then again, what authority do I have to say which PCB is better than another :rolleyes:
Title: Re: why do we like korean customs but they don't like our customs?
Post by: dorkvader on Sat, 22 June 2013, 11:30:17
My KMAC LE PCB supports winkey, winkeyless, and stepped and unstepped capslock. That's four.
Title: Re: why do we like korean customs but they don't like our customs?
Post by: Photekq on Sat, 22 June 2013, 11:31:50
Quote from: dorkvader on Sat, 22 June 2013, 11:30:17
My KMAC LE PCB supports winkey, winkeyless, and stepped and unstepped capslock. That's four.
Oh. I had always thought that each KMAC pcb only supported one layout but there were different versions of it. My bad.
Title: Re: why do we like korean customs but they don't like our customs?
Post by: llovro on Sat, 22 June 2013, 11:38:42
A.87 is not programmable as far as I know so ...
But if you think of them cases. Isn't it even better that you don't get a case with phantom? If you look at the 456gt for example. You're only limited to that beautiful case, but if you buy something like phantom you can be creative and design your own case. I like the thing that they did with kmac. They started selling plates and pcbs individually.
Title: Re: why do we like korean customs but they don't like our customs?
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Sat, 22 June 2013, 11:44:34
We could step up the game, and make case in red diamond encrusted osmium/iridium... should only me like some tens of millions for each unit.
Title: Re: why do we like korean customs but they don't like our customs?
Post by: Tym on Sat, 22 June 2013, 12:00:46
Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Sat, 22 June 2013, 11:44:34
We could step up the game, and make case in red diamond encrusted osmium/iridium... should only me like some tens of millions for each unit.
Why stop there? Unobtainium?
Title: Re: why do we like korean customs but they don't like our customs?
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sat, 22 June 2013, 12:02:35
Quote from: Tym on Sat, 22 June 2013, 12:00:46
Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Sat, 22 June 2013, 11:44:34
We could step up the game, and make case in red diamond encrusted osmium/iridium... should only me like some tens of millions for each unit.
Why stop there? Unobtainium?

But...but...I thought that's what was going to be sold in the Crtl Alt Store......Unobtanium keycaps?
Title: Re: why do we like korean customs but they don't like our customs?
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Sat, 22 June 2013, 12:19:16
Another thing, copper PCB is too pedestrian, they must be made from a more luxurious material like white gold. Also, every switch will come prelubricated with unicorn tears...
Title: Re: why do we like korean customs but they don't like our customs?
Post by: Batmann on Sat, 22 June 2013, 12:38:10
There is the layout support, of course but really
Trik PCB feels a lot better than the phantom, the teensy is great for it's versatility but integration is really not great. You need a Filco style cable where a usb mini connector is much preferred imo.
And as for the cases, there is literally no comparison for the moment. They are very high quality (great machining and designs)
Skeldom will probably be up to korean standards as well as Tek 60/80.

Well that's just my 2 cents  :)

Title: Re: why do we like korean customs but they don't like our customs?
Post by: boost on Sat, 22 June 2013, 13:19:28
Phantom is just awesome...

Title: Re: why do we like korean customs but they don't like our customs?
Post by: kaiserreich on Sat, 22 June 2013, 15:33:42
The Phantom is a complicated board to build.
A lot of attention must me placed into the Teensy mounting to make sure the pins don't jut out and push the switches out.

V2 Phantom plate that does SMD Diodes, or some sort of an assembly process to integrate the ATMega and the Diodes should be looked into.
The Phantom plate was a great start for the first GH custom PCB but the GH60 has since surpassed it.
Title: Re: why do we like korean customs but they don't like our customs?
Post by: rootwyrm on Sat, 22 June 2013, 15:40:02
Quote from: Tym on Sat, 22 June 2013, 12:00:46
Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Sat, 22 June 2013, 11:44:34
We could step up the game, and make case in red diamond encrusted osmium/iridium... should only me like some tens of millions for each unit.
Why stop there? Unobtainium?

No can do. DEC used it all back in the 80's and 90's, and I'm running out of Alphas to melt down for hammer-forging escape keys. ;)
Title: Re: why do we like korean customs but they don't like our customs?
Post by: kenmai9 on Sat, 22 June 2013, 16:03:23
This is gonna sound stereotypical, but Koreans are very prideful of their own stuff, although what they usually do is just improve on something that already exists. Koreans are very ethnocentric (almost to an extreme). I know this because almost all of my friends are Korean, including my girlfriend. I love Koreans and their food though, but this is just something I noticed after being around them all the time.
Title: Re: why do we like korean customs but they don't like our customs?
Post by: The_Beast on Sat, 22 June 2013, 16:44:33
I have both a Phantom and a A.87 PCB. The phantom is built like a tank, thick PCB and supports a million different, and sometimes stupid layouts. The A.87, looks amazing, the screen printing and solder mask looks outstanding. It doesn't support a ton of layouts, but it does support the most popular ones. It also supports in switch diodes, PCB mount diodes, SMD diodes and LEDs all while looking neat and tidy
Title: Re: why do we like korean customs but they don't like our customs?
Post by: kaiserreich on Sat, 22 June 2013, 16:49:35
But unfortunately, the Teensy PcB is made of some lower grade material.
I can smell burning PCB the last time I had to desolder it due to the pins jutting out and not allowing some switches to not being able to sit properly.
Title: Re: why do we like korean customs but they don't like our customs?
Post by: samwisekoi on Sat, 22 June 2013, 17:42:46
Quote from: kaiserreich on Sat, 22 June 2013, 16:49:35
But unfortunately, the Teensy PcB is made of some lower grade material.
I can smell burning PCB the last time I had to desolder it due to the pins jutting out and not allowing some switches to not being able to sit properly.

Well it certainly wouldn't be a terrible thing to make a better daughter-board with the Teensy pin-out.

- Ron I samwisekoi
Title: Re: why do we like korean customs but they don't like our customs?
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Sat, 22 June 2013, 18:46:33
Teensy is not needed and there is no reason to use it when SMD controller can be done at the PCB fab. I would rather spend some extra for factory SMD component assembly. It definitely makes for a much cleaner design and it's easier for most end builders to complete too when all that needs finishing is adding the choice of switch.
To be serious, we are rather far behind in offering complete package. Sure we have some nice PCBs under us, and a few case, but nothing has been designed all together, to be offered as a complete yet here. By this I mean you can buy ALL components from 1 groupbuy if one wishes.
I was actually thinking of kicking off something, with some help from some people to work together on something cohesive from the beginning, PCB, casebody and GMK keycap to be offered all together for MX based updated 21st century version of AT layout. Keep layouts to most common, ANSI, ISO, JIS variants. Make 2 version of same case design, one cheap version made from acrylic, POM or something, and deluxe version from aluminum.
Title: Re: why do we like korean customs but they don't like our customs?
Post by: samwisekoi on Sun, 23 June 2013, 07:55:24
Sorry, I meant a better Teensy form-factor daughter-board for use on the Phantom.

It wouldn't be hard to come up with improvements, either.  Better PCB, more flexible USB mounting, better use for bottom edge pins to name three.

 - Ron I samwisekoi