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geekhack Community => Other Geeky Stuff => Topic started by: Flyersfan1 on Tue, 25 June 2013, 18:37:19
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Hey Guys, I know this might not be the best place to ask, but I get the feeling there are lots of tech savvy people around here, so I figured I'd give it a shot. I'm interested in learning how to build a gaming computer from scratch. I feel it would be a nice skill to learn, and it will more than likely save me a reasonable amount of money as opposed to buying something pre-built. I've scoured YouTube for videos on assembling all the components, this has been pretty helpful and I'm going to continue watching. I'm not really planning on buying everything until the fall since what I plan on playing isn't released until then. I have a budget of around $1250-1300 so i figure I can get something pretty decent. I'm not looking to blow the roof off these upcoming games that require pretty nice specifications to run decently, I'm just looking to build something that will last a while and be able to handle running some demanding games smoothly, I'm not interested in always putting everything at max settings. Plus, i'll be able to recycle a few components(optical drive, blu-ray drive) from my current PC (iBUYPOWER pre-built pc) that I purchased on Ebay back in 2010. The biggest thing i'm stressing about is having very expensive components that can be pretty easily ruined if not careful, but a lot of the advice I've been getting is that patience is the key for your first build and always exercise caution to make sure no parts are ruined. If any of you guys know of any websites or online guides that may be available for some extra study I would greatly appreciate a referral. Thanks so much for reading!
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Building a PC is so, so easy. It's like lego made out of PCBs and is nearly impossible to screw up.
Really, just don't worry about it and give it a go. I'd probably recommend this guide though :
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Building a PC is so, so easy. It's like lego made out of PCBs and is nearly impossible to screw up.
Really, just don't worry about it and give it a go. I'd probably recommend this guide though :
Thanks, I have a tendency to make things seem more difficult than they truly are. I love those guys by the way, I'm mad at myself I hadn't seen that video already.
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They made building computers fool proof. Seriously, you can't mess up. That being said, I only recommend spending about $1500 with peripherals included (Which is essentially just a Qnix Evolution II). Save the rest of your money because you'll be surprised how quickly your system will become outdated. You'll probably be buying new stuff every 2 years to keep up with the market, but since I'm poor only buy new components every 5 years, but I get new rigs every 5 years :D
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They made building computers fool proof. Seriously, you can't mess up. That being said, I only recommend spending about $1500 with peripherals included (Which is essentially just a Qnix Evolution II). Save the rest of your money because you'll be surprised how quickly your system will become outdated. You'll probably be buying new stuff every 2 years to keep up with the market, but since I'm poor only buy new components every 5 years, but I get new rigs every 5 years :D
I'm looking to spend about half that just for that reason, It's nice to know at least that you can get something decent with whatever your budget is most of the time.
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Something you're going to learn is that you'll never quite "blow the roof off" these upcoming games, which almost always use unoptimized or poorly optimized super-high-res textures and experimental effects. Even the best gaming rig you can build, will have hiccups, stutters, odd moments of lag, etc. You can minimize all that stuff without blowing your wad on the newest blingy-est things, but the top level consumer hardware just won't get you "perfect" maxed out gameplay, because that's not how the whole process works.
But yeah. Look into quad cores, hex cores, octa cores... look into the GTX Titan, look into intel's latest cpu offerings... SSD, minimum of 2x4gb of "fast" ddr3 ram (pay attention to latency ratings and the relation between your ram speed and cpu speed). Make sure you have plenty of power, particularly amperage, but don't go too far overboard, or you'll be running outside of the "efficiency" range of your PSU.
Lots of people say you can "get away with" using 1333MHz RAM. I'm not sure i believe that, but you should research it yourself and make your own decision.
1. GPU (bandwidth and ram capacity)
2. CPU (clocks, heat, general performance, cores...)
3. RAM (capacity, speed, dual channel...)
4. SSD (if you want "max gaming," you'll need to reduce your loading and access times to stored data...)
5. PSU (total watts, amps on 12v rail, plan for in-excess of "maximum requirement" for total of all your hardware, just in case there are times when everything is running at peak capacity...)
Cooling? Case? Peripherals? Monitor? Sound?
Potentially helpful opinions and things to consider.
Basically, it's easy to build, requires some caution and dexterity, but still easy... less easy to plan, and somewhat tedious to do all the research.
Just be patient and learn about all the things via the internet, before you "do" anything, and try to catch the things you want on discount.
I shall recommend tomshardware, if only for the GPU charts.
Newegg is probably the best place to get most computer things, but not always, so look around before you lock-in.
Edit: actually, i forgot this was a "budget minded" thread, so... forget i mentioned intel. Intel is "better" than AMD, but probably not better enough to justify the cost increase of both the CPU and the motherboard it requires. Just get whatever AMD's flagship is, it'll be enough to be relevant for a while, without being nearly as costly as anything good from intel.
Also, the titan is a supercomputer gpu. It's like $1k. Check ebay for like a used 580 or 680, or whatever AMD/ATI card competes with those. I would recommend avoiding SLI or CrossFire. Too many games just don't properly utilize all that power smoothly, and so it's not really "worth it," unless you're getting an amazing deal on two cards, or a twin-gpu single-card. (like the watercooled 590 i recently acquired).
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I get irritated that motherboards have fewer and fewer slots with every generation, or so it seems. I recommend a full-ATX to make sure that you have some flexibility to add cards. Maybe you don't need them, but I do.
Also, get a case with lots of room. I have a full tower with half a dozen fans. It is a behemoth so I try not to move it very often.
A front-mounted card reader is very nice to have if you use your camera often. Spend a few extra bucks on a really good power supply.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2013741/build-a-killer-windows-8-gaming-pc-for-under-1-000.html (http://www.pcworld.com/article/2013741/build-a-killer-windows-8-gaming-pc-for-under-1-000.html)
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Wow ferociousfingerings, thank you so much for that comprehensive write up! That pretty much sums up everything I've been looking to get a little more proficient in. I will make sure to take all of that into consideration. Thank you so much for taking the time to write all that! Fohat, that looks like a really nice build too! Have you guys heard of pcpartpicker.com? It's a pretty nice site that actually lets you compile components and adjust builds accordingly to fit your budget. There's also a forum, but as far as I can tell, isn't all that overly active.
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The most difficult part these days is making sure you get a board, cpu and ram that are compatible. Also, make sure the board will fit the case.
After that, the only other gotcha is power supplies. Some power supplies cannot handle higher power video cards and some do not support the 8pin motherboard connectors either. Most boards will still work with only a 4pin and you can buy adapters for 8pin and video cards connectors.
So long as all that matches, assembling a computer is simple as can be.
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That being said, I want to point out that many people often overspend on a power supply. People think they need a lot more than they actually do. Linus used a 550w power supply in his recent build that featured a Haswell i7 and a GTX 780, just make sure you're getting a quality not quantity power supply and you'll be fine.
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Hmmm. Lots of good advice already. I build lots of computers and the Lego thing is accurate except for TWO PIECES:
1. Installing the CPU into the motherboard. Do this slowly and carefully, because if YOU bend ONE of the 1155 tiny pins in the socket, the motherboard is broken and out of warranty. SLOW AND CAREFUL!
2. Mounting the CPU cooler. It must be very firm, but not too tight. In the sort of price range you are working, the cooler that comes with the CPU is fine, but Intel used crappy plastic thumbscrew-rivet mounts that can work the first time, but might not. And if you pull it off, you must remove and reapply the heat compound. So RTFM and be careful.
Once you get the CPU in, it is in until you take it out, and you don't have to worry about it again. The cooler you need to be more careful with, but if you don't use it as a handle, you will be fine.
Enough gloom. Here is some advice: you will want to upgrade this later, so plan for this when you buy your initial system.
For example, AMD processors and motherboards are cheaper than Intel, but they don't have the same automatic upgrade path. If you buy an Intel Z77 motherboard with 4 memory slots, then you can build your system today with a dual-core i3 CPU and a single 4GB stick of RAM. Need more CPU? Swap in an i5 or even an i7 CPU. Need more memory? Add a second stick to bring you to 8GB. Later, with no other changes, you can drop in two more sticks to bring you up to 16GB.
So if you get a $150 motherboard now, you can take it a long way without pulling much out of the case.
I don't game much, so I don't chase GPU benchmarks, but I do render, and I have been very happy with the 670. And again, later on you can add a second GPU if you need to frag faster.
I think Micro ATX is a good compromise form factor, and 600-800W from a good quality PSU is a good size. And USB 3.0 is worth a few extra bucks. SSDs are fast but unreliable, so keep important things on a hard drive. And since you can get a 4TB drive for $200, why do you need a giant case with 12 drive bays?
Go watch a bunch of YouTube videos. Linus is okay, but I prefer Hardware Canucks. Oh, and of course, my builds on 724support.tv. (Small plug there.)
Good luck and have fun!
- Ron I samwisekoi
p.s. Get a good keyboard too!
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For example, AMD processors and motherboards are cheaper than Intel, but they don't have the same automatic upgrade path. If you buy an Intel Z77 motherboard with 4 memory slots, then you can build your system today with a dual-core i3 CPU and a single 4GB stick of RAM. Need more CPU? Swap in an i5 or even an i7 CPU. Need more memory? Add a second stick to bring you to 8GB. Later, with no other changes, you can drop in two more sticks to bring you up to 16GB.
So if you get a $150 motherboard now, you can take it a long way without pulling much out of the case.
This depends.
AMD did/does have just as good or better upgrade path, in some ways. The Am2/3/3+ socket went a long ways. Also, the the FM2 processors come with a decent video card built in and is expected to run for a while (last I checked), so there is some good to AMD.
Intel does tend to cost more, but will not need to be upgraded as soon. BUT.... We've reached a point where even the mid level FM2 processors from AMD are more than plenty fast and not the bottleneck processors once were. Meaning any mid grade processor you buy today (Intel or AMD), is going to last a long time. Possibly even be your last desktop.
I totally agree about MATX, I have even been building Mini-ITX for offices where a gaming video card isn't necessary. I even got rid of all my ATX systems.
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The only advice I'm going to give you is this, with you're budget you can build an excellent gaming PC. Now, keep in mind the fact that gaming is the primary purpose that you're building it for, so by all means DO NOT SKIMP ON THE GRAPHICS CARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously, do not short change yourself here and don't fall into that trope where someone tells you "don't spend money on XXX graphics card because my slightly less expensive XXX graphics card is just as powerful". My advice is to price out the rest of your PC first, figure out your CPU, Mobo, RAM, etc etc and then examine the rest of your budget and buy the best graphics card that that money can buy. Very few games are bottlenecked by the CPU anymore, so having as much graphics horsepower as humanly possible is always a good thing and NEVER a bad thing.
That being said, I much prefer single card setups as opposed to multi card setups, I've seen plenty of games that have come out and be very poorly optimized for multi card solutions (*COUGH* AMD *COUGH*), but that's just been my experience with it, yours may vary.
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Everyone that says that building a pc is like building with lego, has not had the same experience that I had this weekend.
Apparently the amd stock cooler on the fx 8350's termal compound works as glue after a while. Getting the heatsink off involved accidentally bending two pins and bending them back, and a whole lot of other scary ****. If you're going for an after market heat sink, Install it as soon as you get the computer, don't wait a year like I did.
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Everyone that says that building a pc is like building with lego, has not had the same experience that I had this weekend.
Apparently the amd stock cooler on the fx 8350's termal compound works as glue after a while. Getting the heatsink off involved accidentally bending two pins and bending them back, and a whole lot of other scary ****. If you're going for an after market heat sink, Install it as soon as you get the computer, don't wait a year like I did.
ooooof, sorry to hear that man :(
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1200 is not enough to include the monitor, unless you want to skimp on stuff.
Haswell + Board + Ram = 600
Video card, 7970, after rebate, after selling game coupon, = $270
CPU cooler $50
SSD, $200
3TB HD, $120
Case, cables fans,, you're done...
If you put in monitor into this budget, you have to make very bad substitutions to the base components...
The components I listed are all Best Bang for your buck right now...
DO NOT buy USED... unless you know the guy and his usage patterns.
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DO NOT buy USED... unless you know the guy and his usage patterns.
With that logic you shouldn't buy new either. Could be defective.
When buying used establish your reputation and worth with other established sellers/traders. Heatware and the willingness to use it is important to making more informed lucrative purchases.
You may get scammed. Buying used may be your only option if you're short on cash. It's more advisable to buy used when you have enough to cover your losses in the event of a scam. It's even more important to familiarize yourself with customer protection policies put in place by money-exchange services.
GLHFBS
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Purchase the best case and power supply you can, those tend not to become obsolete quickly. When it comes time to upgrade, you can reuse those components and still have a top of the line PC.
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My apologies guys, I should have mentioned in the first post that I don't need to purchase a monitor, keyboard, or mouse. I'm bringing all those peripherals over to my new pc. Thank you so much for the outpouring of advice in this thread.
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Purchase the best case and power supply you can, those tend not to become obsolete quickly. When it comes time to upgrade, you can reuse those components and still have a top of the line PC.
Ah yes, I forgot this as well, DON'T SKIMP ON THE POWER SUPPLY! Figure out the specific amount of wattage you want/need in your PC, go to http://www.jonnyguru.com/ and read his power supply reviews, because he has unquestionably THE BEST! power supply reviews, and buy one that he recommends.
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1200 is not enough to include the monitor, unless you want to skimp on stuff.
Haswell + Board + Ram = 600
Video card, 7970, after rebate, after selling game coupon, = $270
CPU cooler $50
SSD, $200
3TB HD, $120
Case, cables fans,, you're done...
If you put in monitor into this budget, you have to make very bad substitutions to the base components...
The components I listed are all Best Bang for your buck right now...
DO NOT buy USED... unless you know the guy and his usage patterns.
I think some of those prices might be slightly wrong and you seem to be missing a few things there...