Racism is alive and well in the U.S. among people of all age groups and races, most people just aren't very vocal about it outside of their own race.
Racism is alive and well in the U.S. among people of all age groups and races, most people just aren't very vocal about it outside of their own race.
No, I respectfully disagree. Most all racism is invented because the political left must have it in order to survive.
Racism is alive and well in the U.S. among people of all age groups and races, most people just aren't very vocal about it outside of their own race.
No, I respectfully disagree. Most all racism is invented because the political left must have it in order to survive.
cool :cool:Racism is alive and well in the U.S. among people of all age groups and races, most people just aren't very vocal about it outside of their own race.
No, I respectfully disagree. Most all racism is invented because the political left must have it in order to survive.
Racism is alive and well in the U.S. among people of all age groups and races, most people just aren't very vocal about it outside of their own race.
No, I respectfully disagree. Most all racism is invented because the political left must have it in order to survive.
I would respectfully say that you live under a rock, or are just playing pretend, which is what good right wing conservative christians are trained to do.
Racism is alive and well in the U.S. among people of all age groups and racesisn't it supposed to be a white race monopoly?
Racism is alive and well in the U.S. among people of all age groups and races, most people just aren't very vocal about it outside of their own race.
No, I respectfully disagree. Most all racism is invented because the political left must have it in order to survive.
I would respectfully say that you live under a rock, or are just playing pretend, which is what good right wing conservative christians are trained to do.
lets not forget this is the same guy (endzone) that takes pictures of random kids.
Racism is alive and well in the U.S. among people of all age groups and racesisn't it supposed to be a white race monopoly?
Racism is alive and well in the U.S. among people of all age groups and races, most people just aren't very vocal about it outside of their own race.
No, I respectfully disagree. Most all racism is invented because the political left must have it in order to survive.
I would respectfully say that you live under a rock, or are just playing pretend, which is what good right wing conservative christians are trained to do.
well, i know what you mean, but have to say that "latinos" is a vague term. colombians are latinos, and racism is a ridiculous thing for them. chileans are latinos as well, and they are pretty much racists.Blacks and Latinos are pretty racist against people outside of their race, but especially to each otherRacism is alive and well in the U.S. among people of all age groups and racesisn't it supposed to be a white race monopoly?
I wonder if you're afraid to live in a world where there is no racism? That would mean no more affirmative action. No more quotas and job slots just for black guys and every other kind of minority. No more special privledges for being a minority. No, you would just be another one of the guys. Does that thought scare you?You're kidding right? Please explain these make believe "special privileges" you speak of. I've never benefited from being a minority, except maybe I didn't grow up eating bland food. People like you can't accept it when others are more qualified, so you pull the race card and say you didn't get the job because of affirmative action, even though the employer probably doesn't participate in that crap. I've never even had to list my race on an application, and I've had tons of jobs, which makes me think that the affirmative action adoption rate by employers must be pretty low. Employers hire me because of my resume, not race. Maybe affirmative action is applicable in government jobs, or in jobs that any warm bodied idiot could do, but those are jobs that nobody should aspire to. So no, that thought doesn't scare me.
well, i know what you mean, but have to say that "latinos" is a vague term. colombians are latinos, and racism is a ridiculous thing for them. chileans are latinos as well, and they are pretty much racists.People tend not to be as racist in their home countries as they are after living here. Racism seems to be an American thing. Hell, I've had friends from Africa talk crap about black people that grew up here, something I doubt they would have done in their native country. Also, most people these days are past racism, but it still does exist, and contrary to what TV tells you, white people don't have a monopoly on it.
Also, most people these days are past racism, but it still does exist, and contrary to what TV tells you, white people don't have a monopoly on it.
contrary to what TV tells youtv tells me nothing, i am so deaf to it
god. i hope tp4tissue never sees this thread.
People tend not to be as racist in their home countries as they are after living here. Racism seems to be an American thing. Hell, I've had friends from Africa talk crap about black people that grew up here, something I doubt they would have done in their native country. Also, most people these days are past racism, but it still does exist, and contrary to what TV tells you, white people don't have a monopoly on it.
White people want racism to go away
And Mr. Quick, how do you know you didn't get the job because of affirmative action? HR NEVER tells anybody if they were hired or denied because of affirmative action. There is a lot of pressure for companies to fill up their government mandated affirmative action rolls.
also, don't white women benefit more from affirmative action than minorities?
QuoteWhite people want racism to go away
kkk, neonazis, stormfront, the really really conservative right.
yeah, they want racism to go away.
actually, nope, i am wrong. they don't want racism to stay.
they want everybody that isnt a white christian to die/go away.
also, don't white women benefit more from affirmative action than minorities?
Not really.
And you have to keep in mind that there are still massive wage gaps between male and female employees. Women are often paid less than their male counterparts in education and in STEM jobs. Both of those are interesting for different reasons. Men are the minority in the teaching force, so it's surmised that men are paid more to attract more male teachers. It may also be that men are more likely to receive higher paid private school education jobs, but I haven't seen the data there. What's interesting about the STEM element is that there is an active push by many companies to encourage more female STEM majors and to hire more of them, but even so, they're still making, on average 14% less than their male counterparts. That's better than the 21% less average derived from all work, but still not great.
- P.S. sorry for the statistics, I graduated with my M.A. in Sociology not too long ago, so I did all kinds of studying and research on this stuff.
QuoteWhite people want racism to go away
kkk, neonazis, stormfront, the really really conservative right.
yeah, they want racism to go away.
actually, nope, i am wrong. they don't want racism to stay.
they want everybody that isnt a white christian to die/go away.
Always a victim aren't you demik? Poor little demik. It's everybody else's fault. Poor baby.
also, don't white women benefit more from affirmative action than minorities?
Not really.
And you have to keep in mind that there are still massive wage gaps between male and female employees. Women are often paid less than their male counterparts in education and in STEM jobs. Both of those are interesting for different reasons. Men are the minority in the teaching force, so it's surmised that men are paid more to attract more male teachers. It may also be that men are more likely to receive higher paid private school education jobs, but I haven't seen the data there. What's interesting about the STEM element is that there is an active push by many companies to encourage more female STEM majors and to hire more of them, but even so, they're still making, on average 14% less than their male counterparts. That's better than the 21% less average derived from all work, but still not great.
- P.S. sorry for the statistics, I graduated with my M.A. in Sociology not too long ago, so I did all kinds of studying and research on this stuff.
That's cuz women take suggestions and men take orders. That's why companies are willing to pay men 20% more, and I don't blame them. Men deliver the goods more than women do.
Always a victim aren't you demik? Poor little demik. It's everybody else's fault. Poor baby.
That's cuz women take suggestions and men take orders. That's why companies are willing to pay men 20% more, and I don't blame them. Men deliver the goods more than women do.
And Mr. Quick, how do you know you didn't get the job because of affirmative action? HR NEVER tells anybody if they were hired or denied because of affirmative action. There is a lot of pressure for companies to fill up their government mandated affirmative action rolls. That is racism by the left--not the white majority. The political left wants there to be racism, and they don't want racism to end. Put yourself in my shoes for a minute. Can you imagine how tired I am of minorities calling white people racist? Man I'm 56, and I've heard this nonsense all my life. So for the past 45 years I've heard how racist white people are, but the fact is that we really aren't. It's just that race baiters want to keep the racism industry alive and well because it is so lucrative for them.
Waiting for sth to show up to this party.this party sucks
QuoteWhite people want racism to go away
kkk, neonazis, stormfront, the really really conservative right.
yeah, they want racism to go away.
actually, nope, i am wrong. they don't want racism to stay.
they want everybody that isnt a white christian to die/go away.
The media thrives on creating racism. Just go back and look at the coverage on the first days of the Treyvon Martin shooting (you know, back when little-to-no facts were known). MSNBC even edited the call to police to make it sound like Zimmerman was racist, lol. No surprise here. The are far more race baiters than actually racist people.
Covert racism and otherless visible forms of racism are still massive issues and run rampant within the fabric of our society. Many of these are in the form of institutionalized racism.
Covert racism and otherless visible forms of racism are still massive issues and run rampant within the fabric of our society. Many of these are in the form of institutionalized racism.
inb4 a bunch of white people claim there's no such thing
inb4 a bunch of white people claim there's no such thingOh the irony.
inb4 a bunch of white people claim there's no such thingOh the irony.
It can be things like stop and frisk policies in New York (which are also unconstitutional) to the way that school systems are funded to many other things that are couched in economic terms, but really have underlying racial issues in mind.
inb4 a bunch of white people claim there's no such thingOh the irony.
Not really ironic since it's usually white people who claim we live in a post-racism society. 9 times out of 10 when I hear someone saying racism no longer is an issue, they're white. A lot of that comes from ignorance and never experiencing, or rarely experiencing, racism first hand or not understanding how certain actions are racist.
inb4 a bunch of white people claim there's no such thingOh the irony.
Not really ironic since it's usually white people who claim we live in a post-racism society. 9 times out of 10 when I hear someone saying racism no longer is an issue, they're white. A lot of that comes from ignorance and never experiencing, or rarely experiencing, racism first hand or not understanding how certain actions are racist.
Well of course. It's never ironic to make generalizations about white people while complaining about generalizations made about minorities. As long as they're true in your experiences, then it's okay.
That's cuz women take suggestions and men take ordershave you come to this conclusion during your years in military?
inb4 a bunch of white people claim there's no such thingOh the irony.
Not really ironic since it's usually white people who claim we live in a post-racism society. 9 times out of 10 when I hear someone saying racism no longer is an issue, they're white. A lot of that comes from ignorance and never experiencing, or rarely experiencing, racism first hand or not understanding how certain actions are racist.
And Mr. Quick, how do you know you didn't get the job because of affirmative action? HR NEVER tells anybody if they were hired or denied because of affirmative action. There is a lot of pressure for companies to fill up their government mandated affirmative action rolls. That is racism by the left--not the white majority. The political left wants there to be racism, and they don't want racism to end. Put yourself in my shoes for a minute. Can you imagine how tired I am of minorities calling white people racist? Man I'm 56, and I've heard this nonsense all my life. So for the past 45 years I've heard how racist white people are, but the fact is that we really aren't. It's just that race baiters want to keep the racism industry alive and well because it is so lucrative for them.
I'm trying to be relatively polite to you, but you are making it difficult. First of all, I'm starting to think your reading comprehension skills are lacking, which may explain your employment difficulties. I find it insulting that you think I've gotten jobs because I am a minority. First of all, if you read what I stated earlier, I have never even needed to list my race on an employment application, and being that my father has a little bit of English blood, I have a "white guy last name that doesn't really fit what I look like" according to some people. I also just sold my business for a **** ton of money, did somebody buy it because I'm a minority? As a business owner myself, well... in between businesses at the moment, I don't hire people because of race, nor do I participate in affirmative action. Don't attribute race as a factor to your failure and other's success, it makes you look petty.
Also, if you read what I have explained about racism, I have stated multiple times that it isn't just white people that are racist, and that minorities are just as racist if not even more.
The media thrives on creating racism. Just go back and look at the coverage on the first days of the Treyvon Martin shooting (you know, back when little-to-no facts were known). MSNBC even edited the call to police to make it sound like Zimmerman was racist, lol. No surprise here. There are far more race baiters than actually racist people.
Oh man, poor little nubbinator is another "victim" of white racism? Haha.
Waiting for sth to show up to this party.this party sucksQuoteWhite people want racism to go away
kkk, neonazis, stormfront, the really really conservative right.
yeah, they want racism to go away.
actually, nope, i am wrong. they don't want racism to stay.
they want everybody that isnt a white christian to die/go away.
i mean arguably, in practice, a huge majority of white people don't want racism to go away... they just don't want to admit how much they benefit from it.
also you guys come ON, why are you even falling for this weak ass trolling? dont argue with racists. yelling is ok.
Oh man, poor little nubbinator is another "victim" of white racism? Haha.
I'm as white as they come. Leave me outside for five minutes, flip and repeat and I come out a brilliant shade of red. It's nice to to see that you think you have to be a minority to see racism is still an issue in contemporary society. It's sad that you really just refuse to see that racism is still an issue in contemporary society though. It's not surprising given my experiences in Texas though, where you're apparently living given your love for Bluebell ice cream.
That's cuz women take suggestions and men take ordershave you come to this conclusion during your years in military?
I wasn't in the military, but I worked on U.S. merchant tanker ships for 10 years. I've had a lot of work experience. With women you have to dance round their emotions at work. If you're not careful, they go to HR and rat you out. Most of the time men won't do that--unless they're wiennie men at work, and there are sure some of those too. They are usually the ones who want the thermostat turned up to 80F along with all the women.
You can be liberal and still be a racist though. Liberals don't thrive on racism, it's just an issue that there is a substantial body of liberals that think it still exists and want to address it. Unfortunately, most of them only want to believe in and address racism in the form of racial slurs and other blatant forms of racism.
I went to grad school in Seattle, Washington where the populace is pretty darn liberal. They're also pretty darn racist still. They're liberal, but they're what I call yuppie white people liberal. They're all for legalizing pot, legalizing gay marriage, and eliminating anything that is racist on the surface, but they're anti-poor and all in favor of institutional racism. The truth is that there are institutional inequalities that persist that are racist and/or classist. Things like school funding, quality of teachers, and availability of after school programs create institutional inequalities that target minorities and the poor. Policies like New York City's Stop and Frisk policy disproportionately target young black males, creating a system wherein if you're a young black male, you're automatically assumed to be a criminal. Just because the n-word usage is on the decline in whites, at least in public, and just because you see increasing rates of interracial dating and marriage does not mean that race is still not an issue in America, especially when it comes to institutionally perpetuated inequalities.
those damn liberals. making the white man racist.
well i guess we should look on the bright side. you're sitting here blaming liberals for everything so that means children are safe from having their picture taken without their consent!
Hmmmmm, I take it we're allow to discuss this topic? On a lot of college football boards I've been on, this topic is not allowed--especially if you say anything negative about a black man or woman.
I wasn't in the military, but I worked on U.S. merchant tanker ships for 10 years. I've had a lot of work experience. With women you have to dance round their emotions at work. If you're not careful, they go to HR and rat you out. Most of the time men won't do that--unless they're wiennie men at work, and there are sure some of those too. They are usually the ones who want the thermostat turned up to 80F along with all the women.
Only if you're a white liberal and want to keep blacks on your white liberal plantation in Washington, DC. White liberals must keep their voters dependent on the federal government. One day maybe the black community might actually figure out that they're being used by their white liberal massers in Washington, DC.
Okay guys. We are allowed to disagree vehemently on this forum and to hold unpopular opinions. Go ahead and continue arguing if you want, but keep it within reason.Hmmmmm, I take it we're allow to discuss this topic? On a lot of college football boards I've been on, this topic is not allowed--especially if you say anything negative about a black man or woman.I wasn't in the military, but I worked on U.S. merchant tanker ships for 10 years. I've had a lot of work experience. With women you have to dance round their emotions at work. If you're not careful, they go to HR and rat you out. Most of the time men won't do that--unless they're wiennie men at work, and there are sure some of those too. They are usually the ones who want the thermostat turned up to 80F along with all the women.Only if you're a white liberal and want to keep blacks on your white liberal plantation in Washington, DC. White liberals must keep their voters dependent on the federal government. One day maybe the black community might actually figure out that they're being used by their white liberal massers in Washington, DC.
You are allowed to discuss. You are not allowed to troll, or to post racist or sexist comments. You're skirting the line on all three counts.
Do not post any more pictures of random little kids. That is totally inappropriate in this context.
White people want racism to go away? lol.
White people want racism to go away? lol.
Ut oh, is that a picture of a child there in your avatar? You've posted it 350 times??
I don't like working with women because all women are just ****s who only want to rip off men for what they can get out of them and then go on to somebody else. Now that's a sexist comment.
"I don't like stupid grease monkey niggers because any good nigger is a dead nigger!!!" Now, that's racism my friend. Do you see the diffeence?
We should make court cases blind and see how it changes outcomes.
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/udDsE91.jpg)
On topic, that video was appalling, but typical of Big Brother. It seems like there are a few decent people on their, but they pick people who they know will cause the most drama.
I was a little surprised that the person who put the video together put retarded and racial slurs and derogatory racial comments and homophobia on the same level. It's also worth noting that the racial and homophobic terms were used with obvious bigotry behind them while retarded was a generational thing and used mostly when they were referencing something stupid they did. Retarded is something that needs to be addressed, but it does not have the hatred and vitriol behind it that the others do.
We should make court cases blind and see how it changes outcomes.
doesn't matter... police are still gonna arrest more PoCs than whites.
- 54% of African Americans graduate from high school, compared to more than three quarters of white
and Asian students.
- Nationally, African American male students in grades K-12 were nearly 2½ times as likely to be suspended from school in 2000 as white students.
- In 2007, nearly 6.2 million young people were high school dropouts. Every student who does not complete high school costs our society an estimated $260,000 in lost earnings, taxes, and productivity.
- On average, African American twelfth-grade students read at the same level as white
eighth-grade students.
- The twelfth-grade reading scores of African American males were significantly lower than
those for men and women across every other racial and ethnic group.
- Only 14% of African American eighth graders score at or above the proficient level. These results reveal that millions of young people cannot understand or evaluate text, provide relevant details, or support inferences about the written documents they read.
- The majority of the 2.3 million people incarcerated in U.S. prisons and jails are people of
color, people with mental health issues and drug addiction, people with low levels of
educational attainment, and people with a history of unemployment or underemployment.
No one is whiter than I(http://25.media.tumblr.com/ff8c65560f9c16ed80dcaac3f2be6e5f/tumblr_mk251pJAeU1rtpbm5o1_500.jpg)
Show Image(http://25.media.tumblr.com/ff8c65560f9c16ed80dcaac3f2be6e5f/tumblr_mk251pJAeU1rtpbm5o1_500.jpg)
There is a hysteria about the use of the word "n------". I believe I made a valid point that the leftist TV commentators are always saying we need more education about the use of this word. Well, black guys use the world 25 times/day. They call each other that. The use of this word isn't going to end, so then that means racism will never end? That is ridiculous. Let me give you an example of real racism. "I don't like stupid grease monkey n------s because any good n----- is a dead n-----!!!" Now, that's racism my friend. Do you see the diffeence?
I am a proud father of 2 children. I don't post their pics on the internet and if I saw a stranger deliberately point a camera at my children as the main subject any successful shots would be eliminated one way or the other. That other people are so casual about the idea is fairly disturbing to me.
Racism is manufactured by the left.
It is only natural and automatic that anyone sees those like himself to be preferable to those unlike himself.
Racism is manufactured by the left.
This is absolutely untrue.
Racism is something that has been ingrained in every race for thousands of years, and it operates in both directions, if not always equally.
It is only natural and automatic that anyone sees those like himself to be preferable to those unlike himself.
Did the Founding Fathers write the 3/5 provision into the Constitution due to pressure from the left or pressure from the right?
"NBC's "Today" show ran the edited audio of George Zimmerman's phone call to a police dispatcher in which Zimmerman says: "'This guy looks like he's up to no good … he looks black." "
A transcript of the complete 911 call shows that Zimmerman said, "This guy looks like he's up to no good. Or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about."
The 911 officer responded saying, "OK, and this guy — is he black, white or Hispanic?"
"He looks black," Zimmerman said.
not ..... to regulate their thoughts, just their actions.
I am honest enough to admit, not particularly proudly, that somewhere, deep inside, I would prefer to live in a United States populated primarily of descendants of white Anglo Europeans. But I am realistic enough to understand that is not possible, and will be even less so in the future.
I am a proud father of 2 children. I don't post their pics on the internet and if I saw a stranger deliberately point a camera at my children as the main subject any successful shots would be eliminated one way or the other. That other people are so casual about the idea is fairly disturbing to me.
That could be another potential Treyvon Martin/Zimbo scenario? I'm not sure which one you would be.
Oh, I was off-topic.
This thread was about a TV show?
Who could actually watch sh!t like that?
@ fohat - LOL
@ sth
cool a racist troll is trolling me hey guys look im being trolled at
And Mr. Quick, how do you know you didn't get the job because of affirmative action? HR NEVER tells anybody if they were hired or denied because of affirmative action. There is a lot of pressure for companies to fill up their government mandated affirmative action rolls. That is racism by the left--not the white majority. The political left wants there to be racism, and they don't want racism to end. Put yourself in my shoes for a minute. Can you imagine how tired I am of minorities calling white people racist? Man I'm 56, and I've heard this nonsense all my life. So for the past 45 years I've heard how racist white people are, but the fact is that we really aren't. It's just that race baiters want to keep the racism industry alive and well because it is so lucrative for them.
I'm trying to be relatively polite to you, but you are making it difficult. First of all, I'm starting to think your reading comprehension skills are lacking, which may explain your employment difficulties. I find it insulting that you think I've gotten jobs because I am a minority. First of all, if you read what I stated earlier, I have never even needed to list my race on an employment application, and being that my father has a little bit of English blood, I have a "white guy last name that doesn't really fit what I look like" according to some people. I also just sold my business for a **** ton of money, did somebody buy it because I'm a minority? As a business owner myself, well... in between businesses at the moment, I don't hire people because of race, nor do I participate in affirmative action. Don't attribute race as a factor to your failure and other's success, it makes you look petty.
Also, if you read what I have explained about racism, I have stated multiple times that it isn't just white people that are racist, and that minorities are just as racist if not even more.
I was wondering how you got around the "affirmative action" form when applying for just about any job--especially government defense contractors. That's why I had doubts about your story initially.
Not everyone works with or for the government. Some Americans, or should I say an overwhelming majority, work in the private sector and actually generate money for our economy. Sorry, I hate the bureaucracy that is our government, you know - the people who spend $400-$500 for a hammer that cost $4-$5, and you should too. Outside of the government, I really don't think affirmative action forms are used. Maybe since I've pretty much always worked in IT, and there are tons of minorities(mostly Asian) anyways so affirmative action isn't needed? As an aside, I was at the gas station the other day and had the privilege of watching some ungrateful white guy get completely irate when the clerks told him that he couldn't use his EBT card to buy a bunch of energy drinks and beef jerky because the computer system wouldn't allow it. The computer had the items flagged as luxury items or some other criteria that made them ineligible. The guy actually had the nerve to cuss everyone out and say "have fun working you ****ing losers!" I LOL'd and said "have fun being a lazy piece of **** that can't even pay for his own energy drinks and jerky," while I held the energy drink that I was about to pay for with my own money. Back in the day I also saw white trash drug addicts trade/sell their food stamps for much less cash than what they were worth, so that they could purchase drugs with the cash. I have plenty of other examples. The point is that you can't generalize an entire group of people. Obviously I have similar stories involving minorities, but I don't think you need convincing about those. I don't look at white people as a bunch of lazy "pot calling the kettle black" hippocrates because of first hand experiences with a small number of them. I know better, not just from dealings with many hard working white people, but from common sense. You shouldn't look at minorities as people who get a free ride, and if they are successful think that somehow they got a handout that you didn't. If anything, they had to work harder because they grew up in extreme poverty conditions that you probably didn't, especially children of first generation immigrants who came here from third world countries and had NOTHING to start out with, and still made success stories out of their lives. I know, because I say that from experience. I hope you don't take that as an attack, I'm just trying to widen your point of view. White people aren't the only hard working people in this country, and having color in your skin doesn't automatically give you free ****.
If Russians prefer natural born Russians in their country is that Racism?no, it's Bullsh!t.
It's amusing to see you say The point is that you can't generalize an entire group of people, midway through doing just that.
You know who works for the government? Teachers. Firefighters. Cops. Government is us.
Meh. No idea why I even posted in this thread in the first place.
It's amusing to see you say The point is that you can't generalize an entire group of people, midway through doing just that.
You know who works for the government? Teachers. Firefighters. Cops. Government is us.
Meh. No idea why I even posted in this thread in the first place.
I don't see how that qualifies as generalization. The government does not generate money, they just piss it away, so I'm not a huge fan. Also, teachers, firefighters, and cops make up a small portion of our government, and although the people working at the bottom might work hard, the organization is still rotten. You give examples of some of the hardest working government employees, as if the entire government was composed of people like that, and that amuses me. If you ever have to deal with city, county, state, or federal organizations, you quickly notice they move as slowly as possible, and become very irritable if you ask them to move at a human pace or point out errors in what they are doing. You can't even pretend to think that government employees as a whole work as hard as those in the private sector. Man, I thought that government waste was a well known fact and wasn't even debatable, but I guess some of you guys must have grown up under a rock on Mars.
All Americans pay taxes to ensure essential services, and government ("We, the people..." and all that)
not ..... to regulate their thoughts, just their actions.
This is the crux of the issue.
I am honest enough to admit, not particularly proudly, that somewhere, deep inside, I would prefer to live in a United States populated primarily of descendants of white Anglo Europeans. But I am realistic enough to understand that is not possible, and will be even less so in the future.
Add to that the fact that one half of one millennium ago (a mere blink in the history of the world) there were none of "my people" here at all, and the white European claim to America becomes even more tenuous.
My personal attitudes and preferences exist within my own skull, but outside in the real world, there must be a social framework that supports justice.
not ..... to regulate their thoughts, just their actions.
This is the crux of the issue.
I am honest enough to admit, not particularly proudly, that somewhere, deep inside, I would prefer to live in a United States populated primarily of descendants of white Anglo Europeans. But I am realistic enough to understand that is not possible, and will be even less so in the future.
Add to that the fact that one half of one millennium ago (a mere blink in the history of the world) there were none of "my people" here at all, and the white European claim to America becomes even more tenuous.
My personal attitudes and preferences exist within my own skull, but outside in the real world, there must be a social framework that supports justice.
Aha wow, excellent post. I, of course, am far too cowardly to admit something like this (plus I don't live in the US anyway, thank ****). But I suspect a massive majority of white Americans are of this mindset but would never admit it, and instead adopt mock outrage at casual/insignificant/superficial racism whilst at the same time are inadvertently (probably not purposefully) upholding institutional racism.
The main problem is that race exists in the first place. It's almost entirely a social construct. Minor genetic differences does not equate to "race".
The other problem that's mostly exclusive to North America, is that race is so closely tied to things like socio-economic status that racism actually has a modicum of validity. The obvious example is white Americans being afraid of young, black men. It's painted by the media as irrational racism, but it's actually justified by statistics.
The Trayvon Martin case is the obvious example. I don't know what actually happened that night (and neither does anyone else besides Martin and Zimmerman) but Zimmerman is being painted a racist for "racially profiling" Martin, and being more suspicious of him than he would have a white/Asian/Hispanic kid; but whether he did or not, it doesn't matter, it's not racism - it's justified by reality. It's idiotic thinking (and mostly perpetuated by the same well meaning but secretly racist white people I mentioned before) that we should just ignore facts so we don't appear superficially racist. How about society focuses on elimating racism through other means, like instead of arbitrarily saying you can't be more suspicious of of a black teenager than a white or Asian one, the focus is on reducing the discrepancy in the rate of crime perpetuated by black men.
Although Zimmerman was undoubtedly an idiot and an @sshole, the case against him was weak.
In the US the bar is set very high to convict, and dim memories of shadowy views and recordings of telephone calls is not nearly enough.
Black men are 6 times more likely to die as the result of murder, according to the report, and 7 times more likely to commit murder than their white counterparts. One eighth of the U.S. population is black, but one half of all homicide victims are black.
Ok, so fohat, you're actually correct. Knowing that a young black man is seven times more likely to become a murderer, yeah, Zimmerman should have remained in his car. But maybe he didn't know about the statistic.
Ok, so fohat, you're actually correct. Knowing that a young black man is seven times more likely to become a murderer, yeah, Zimmerman should have remained in his car. But maybe he didn't know about the statistic.
Love that horribly biased interpretation of that study
(if you can even call it a study, any first year grad student could run it in their sleep).
Black men are more likely to die from homicide. That does not mean that they're more likely to be a murderer than white people.
Any study worth its salt that's trying to prove that would control for socioeconomic status. A really good article would attempt to link the data with other police data and factor in environmental factors like the prevalence of gangs in an area.
I have tried to stay away from this thread, because it is such a quagmire.Nice post.
Allow me to describe my own background, and take it as you will. We cannot entirely escape our formative years.
There are many people today (including both of my brothers and both of my sisters) who would scorn me as a "bleeding heart liberal" .....
No one is whiter than I - most of my male ancestors at the time were pure Anglo soldiers in the Revolutionary Army (I am George Washington's 8th cousin, 6 times removed) and many of them (not all - there were some Quakers from Penn's original group) were slave-owners and Indian-killers. During the Civil War the Federal sympathizers probably outnumbered the Confederate sympathizers, but not by much.
Since, the overwhelming majority of my ancestors were deeply Christian, hard right conservative politically, and I grew up in the South in the 1950s and 1960s. None of my family would have dreamed of voting for a Democratic candidate for political office, with the exception of a beloved aunt and uncle whose political views were looked at as some sort of aberration.
School integration happened in my city between the 7th and 8th grades for me, and I was there. That is an interesting story of its own. But "my" culture of friends and family were deeply prejudiced implicitly, if not quite so much explicitly. That was the world that I was born into, and grew up in. A middle-class white kid in a Southern city simply did not mingle with the black kids, at that time.
When I matured into adult intelligence, I found that I could not help but reject many of those attitudes. (This was shortly after the racial turmoil of the mid-1960s and the peak of the "hippie movement" while the Vietnam War was still raging.) Although I was a devoutly pious and puritanical child, I "lost my religion" along with many of the other social and political leanings of my ancestors when I became an adult. None of my (younger) siblings (whose world was surprisingly different from mine) followed this trajectory - they were all "normal" kids who became more "conservative" as they aged.
So, today, I see that there are excellent humans of all stripes, as there are idiots and @ssholes as well. Are the percentages greater or lesser from group to group? Perhaps. My concept of the Christian ideal and the American dream is one of tolerance and freedom. But, I must admit that I tend to scrutinize non-whites more closely, whether I know it or not. This is not something that I try to do or like about myself, but it is too deeply ingrained to avoid.
And, last, to negate some of the idealistic egalitarian attitudes above, I sometimes have to agree with my ex-cousin-in-law, a well-respected political scientist, who remarked: "One of the biggest problems with stereotypes is that every group seems to be doing its damndest to live up to them."
So, even after everything else is said and done, the inertia of prejudices and stereotypes is likely to remain as long as there is evidence to keep them in place. So, does that mean that I should stop acting like a middle-aged middle-class American white man? What is that? How do I do that? I try to be as fair and open-minded as I can, and that is all I can do. I am far from perfect, but I strive to not be evil.
I am a proud father of 2 children. I don't post their pics on the internet and if I saw a stranger deliberately point a camera at my children as the main subject any successful shots would be eliminated one way or the other. That other people are so casual about the idea is fairly disturbing to me.
When I posted the pic of the Mexican girl looking for shells, you didn't know the story behind this picture.
I don't believe I have the right to just go stick my camera in some little kids face and take their picture. I met this girl's parents and chatted it up with them for a while. Yes, they were from Mexico. I also played with the little girl helping her look for shells, hitting rocks with sticks, and started a collection of shells. At one point she grabbed my sunglasses that were next to log I was sitting on and wanted to try them on. Her parents quickly told her to leave them there. I didn't ask her parents for permission to take her picture, but there was no objection after I did.
...my two cute little kids
I have tried to stay away from this thread, because it is such a quagmire.Nice post.
Allow me to describe my own background, and take it as you will. We cannot entirely escape our formative years.
There are many people today (including both of my brothers and both of my sisters) who would scorn me as a "bleeding heart liberal" .....
No one is whiter than I - most of my male ancestors at the time were pure Anglo soldiers in the Revolutionary Army (I am George Washington's 8th cousin, 6 times removed) and many of them (not all - there were some Quakers from Penn's original group) were slave-owners and Indian-killers. During the Civil War the Federal sympathizers probably outnumbered the Confederate sympathizers, but not by much.
Since, the overwhelming majority of my ancestors were deeply Christian, hard right conservative politically, and I grew up in the South in the 1950s and 1960s. None of my family would have dreamed of voting for a Democratic candidate for political office, with the exception of a beloved aunt and uncle whose political views were looked at as some sort of aberration.
School integration happened in my city between the 7th and 8th grades for me, and I was there. That is an interesting story of its own. But "my" culture of friends and family were deeply prejudiced implicitly, if not quite so much explicitly. That was the world that I was born into, and grew up in. A middle-class white kid in a Southern city simply did not mingle with the black kids, at that time.
When I matured into adult intelligence, I found that I could not help but reject many of those attitudes. (This was shortly after the racial turmoil of the mid-1960s and the peak of the "hippie movement" while the Vietnam War was still raging.) Although I was a devoutly pious and puritanical child, I "lost my religion" along with many of the other social and political leanings of my ancestors when I became an adult. None of my (younger) siblings (whose world was surprisingly different from mine) followed this trajectory - they were all "normal" kids who became more "conservative" as they aged.
So, today, I see that there are excellent humans of all stripes, as there are idiots and @ssholes as well. Are the percentages greater or lesser from group to group? Perhaps. My concept of the Christian ideal and the American dream is one of tolerance and freedom. But, I must admit that I tend to scrutinize non-whites more closely, whether I know it or not. This is not something that I try to do or like about myself, but it is too deeply ingrained to avoid.
And, last, to negate some of the idealistic egalitarian attitudes above, I sometimes have to agree with my ex-cousin-in-law, a well-respected political scientist, who remarked: "One of the biggest problems with stereotypes is that every group seems to be doing its damndest to live up to them."
So, even after everything else is said and done, the inertia of prejudices and stereotypes is likely to remain as long as there is evidence to keep them in place. So, does that mean that I should stop acting like a middle-aged middle-class American white man? What is that? How do I do that? I try to be as fair and open-minded as I can, and that is all I can do. I am far from perfect, but I strive to not be evil.I am a proud father of 2 children. I don't post their pics on the internet and if I saw a stranger deliberately point a camera at my children as the main subject any successful shots would be eliminated one way or the other. That other people are so casual about the idea is fairly disturbing to me.When I posted the pic of the Mexican girl looking for shells, you didn't know the story behind this picture.
& the story (at least in text) still doesn't sound any better man...I don't believe I have the right to just go stick my camera in some little kids face and take their picture. I met this girl's parents and chatted it up with them for a while. Yes, they were from Mexico. I also played with the little girl helping her look for shells, hitting rocks with sticks, and started a collection of shells. At one point she grabbed my sunglasses that were next to log I was sitting on and wanted to try them on. Her parents quickly told her to leave them there. I didn't ask her parents for permission to take her picture, but there was no objection after I did.
...and? just because they didnt want to make things awkward/potentially threatening (by asking you to remove pics), with a person they have nearly JUST met? That doesn't mean they didn't say to each other later "did you see how he took her picture?" etc. Ever think of it like that? There may come a day you take the wrong parents kids' picture....my two cute little kids
so, do you call ALL kids 'cute little kids'? Just wondering because that also is really not helping my, and perhaps others, view of you.
& How about these people? did they know you were snapping them? http://www.pbase.com/craig_c/image/117682140
...if so, why not add a small blurb/short story so you don't look like such a kreeper? ...one who is obv into photography, if that sounds any better for you.
Hooray! We really ARE celebrating racism in this thread! Wow! What a sight to behold!
What in the **** is wrong with you? That is specifically geared toward Endzone and Krogenar right now. Quit defending racism. Just because statistics say blacks commit more crime (and remember, there are other factors at play here) does not mean profiling is okay.
Cant we all just get along?
The statistic itself isn't the problem. It's that other factors come in to play. Like this: http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0697.pdf
In fairness, I shouldn't be calling you out so much, Krog. Again, you have really just posted stats, and even though it comes off as kind of racist, you haven't been directly attacking anyone, really. Endzone has.
@Krog -- Let's make this a real discussion then. Can you explain your notion of the balance point between rational caution based on crime statistics, and unwarranted prejudice? At what point does it become OK to treat J. Random Blackperson like he's a criminal, just because more people of his skin color commit crimes than people of other skin colors? How do you factor in the fact that, for most of our day-to-day situations and encounters, the overwhelmingly likely outcome is that no crime will occur at all?
@Endzone -- That picture is not "interesting" -- it's a picture of a young woman in a tanktop taken by an old man. The looks of irritation you see on those kids' faces indicates that they did not want to be photographed. Do not post any more of your photography in this thread, or you will be muted.
You know, I don't particularly care for when people record videos of me playing arcade games without asking me. **** your damn camera.
I like beige keyboards better than black keyboards, and my collection proves it. Even when I put a little charcoal gray on a couple of them.
How am I defending racism by quoting a statistic? This is why a 'dialogue' isn't really possible -- if you point out unwelcome facts, you're a racist. The people calling for a 'national dialogue' are really saying, "We're going to lecture white people about race, and they're going to listen, and not say anything, or they'll be called racists." I think a lot of people are getting tired of walking on eggshells when it comes to race, but won't say anything for fear of having their lives and careers ruined by people like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson -- racial entrepreneurs.
As for taking pictures of people at random, that I don't know -- seems a tad creepy to me as well.
Cant we all just get along?
@Krog -- Let's make this a real discussion then. Can you explain your notion of the balance point between rational caution based on crime statistics, and unwarranted prejudice? At what point does it become OK to treat J. Random Blackperson like he's a criminal, just because more people of his skin color commit crimes than people of other skin colors? How do you factor in the fact that, for most of our day-to-day situations and encounters, the overwhelmingly likely outcome is that no crime will occur at all?
I'll retain my right to call you a racist for willingly misrepresenting statistics.
Krogenar, I find it highly shocking that you continue to deny that the system is set up so that minorities fail. You don't have inner city youth joining gangs because "Hey, I'm black, so **** it." They join up in a lot of cases because the system has left them behind, and they have trouble seeing any hope for the future. The issue isn't that people like nubbinator have no expectations of black people, it's that people with your mindset have willingly left them in the dust.
It's always whitey's fault isn't it? It's never poo little Jamal's fault because hes just bees poor little Jamal in da hood. When are blacks going to take responsibility for their own decisions and stop blaming whitey? Until they do, were are going to have the awful sin numbers in the black community--high crime, out-wedlock-births and high high school drop out rate.
Krogenar, I find it highly shocking that you continue to deny that the system is set up so that minorities fail.
You don't have inner city youth joining gangs because "Hey, I'm black, so **** it." They join up in a lot of cases because the system has left them behind, and they have trouble seeing any hope for the future.
Sixty-four percent of children ages 0–17 lived with two married parents in 2012, down from 77 percent in 1980.
In 2012, 24 percent of children lived with only their mothers, 4 percent lived with only their fathers, and 4 percent lived with neither of their parents.1
Seventy-four percent of White, non-Hispanic, 59 percent of Hispanic, and 33 percent of Black children lived with two married parents in 2012.2
The proportion of Hispanic children living with two married parents decreased from 75 percent in 1980 to 59 percent in 2012.
The issue isn't that people like nubbinator have no expectations of black people, it's that people with your mindset have willingly left them in the dust.
It's always whitey's fault isn't it? It's never poo little Jamal's fault because hes just bees poor little Jamal in da hood. When are blacks going to take responsibility for their own decisions and stop blaming whitey? Until they do, were are going to have the awful sin numbers in the black community--high crime, out-wedlock-births and high high school drop out rate.
When they get the same quality of education as middle class whites, when their parents get paid of living wage instead of working 2-3 jobs and 80 hours a week to get by, when they get the same opportunities that people who actually know business owners, executives, and managers have, when cops stop treating them differently because they're black and poor, etc., etc. We have created and perpetuated a system that makes it incredibly difficult for poor black men and women to escape poverty, no matter how hard they work.
When you're in position to see that no matter how hard you work at at honest living, you're never going to be able have a decent standard of living, even with food stamps and medicare, what incentive is there for you to work hard? You look around and see that the only people making it are the lucky ones who get out through scholarships and sports and the drug dealers and you see that people on welfare are just as well off as those who are working their asses off every day to get somewhere.
The truth is that we have established and maintained a system that makes it very difficult for most people to get out of poverty. Until we start actively countering institutional racism that has persisted to this day, we will continue to see those disparities that you insist on blaming on the moral inadequacy of urban blacks.
It's always whitey's fault isn't it? It's never poo little Jamal's fault because hes just bees poor little Jamal in da hood. When are blacks going to take responsibility for their own decisions and stop blaming whitey? Until they do, were are going to have the awful sin numbers in the black community--high crime, out-wedlock-births and high high school drop out rate.
It's always whitey's fault isn't it? It's never poo little Jamal's fault because hes just bees poor little Jamal in da hood. When are blacks going to take responsibility for their own decisions and stop blaming whitey? Until they do, were are going to have the awful sin numbers in the black community--high crime, out-wedlock-births and high high school drop out rate.
o_0 ... The "ebonics"-speak is stupid and isn't helping the discussion, it's just making you sound racist, and giving people yet another reason to ignore the point you're trying to make.
It's always whitey's fault isn't it? It's never poo little Jamal's fault because hes just bees poor little Jamal in da hood. When are blacks going to take responsibility for their own decisions and stop blaming whitey? Until they do, were are going to have the awful sin numbers in the black community--high crime, out-wedlock-births and high high school drop out rate.
o_0 ... The "ebonics"-speak is stupid and isn't helping the discussion, it's just making you sound racist, and giving people yet another reason to ignore the point you're trying to make.
Well if it's so stupid, then why do 95% of black people talk that way?
It's always whitey's fault isn't it? It's never poo little Jamal's fault because hes just bees poor little Jamal in da hood. When are blacks going to take responsibility for their own decisions and stop blaming whitey? Until they do, were are going to have the awful sin numbers in the black community--high crime, out-wedlock-births and high high school drop out rate.
When they get the same quality of education as middle class whites, when their parents get paid of living wage instead of working 2-3 jobs and 80 hours a week to get by, when they get the same opportunities that people who actually know business owners, executives, and managers have, when cops stop treating them differently because they're black and poor, etc., etc. We have created and perpetuated a system that makes it incredibly difficult for poor black men and women to escape poverty, no matter how hard they work.
When you're in position to see that no matter how hard you work at at honest living, you're never going to be able have a decent standard of living, even with food stamps and medicare, what incentive is there for you to work hard? You look around and see that the only people making it are the lucky ones who get out through scholarships and sports and the drug dealers and you see that people on welfare are just as well off as those who are working their asses off every day to get somewhere.
The truth is that we have established and maintained a system that makes it very difficult for most people to get out of poverty. Until we start actively countering institutional racism that has persisted to this day, we will continue to see those disparities that you insist on blaming on the moral inadequacy of urban blacks.
It's always whitey's fault isn't it? It's never poo little Jamal's fault because hes just bees poor little Jamal in da hood. When are blacks going to take responsibility for their own decisions and stop blaming whitey? Until they do, were are going to have the awful sin numbers in the black community--high crime, out-wedlock-births and high high school drop out rate.
When they get the same quality of education as middle class whites, when their parents get paid of living wage instead of working 2-3 jobs and 80 hours a week to get by, when they get the same opportunities that people who actually know business owners, executives, and managers have, when cops stop treating them differently because they're black and poor, etc., etc. We have created and perpetuated a system that makes it incredibly difficult for poor black men and women to escape poverty, no matter how hard they work.
When you're in position to see that no matter how hard you work at at honest living, you're never going to be able have a decent standard of living, even with food stamps and medicare, what incentive is there for you to work hard? You look around and see that the only people making it are the lucky ones who get out through scholarships and sports and the drug dealers and you see that people on welfare are just as well off as those who are working their asses off every day to get somewhere.
The truth is that we have established and maintained a system that makes it very difficult for most people to get out of poverty. Until we start actively countering institutional racism that has persisted to this day, we will continue to see those disparities that you insist on blaming on the moral inadequacy of urban blacks.
As far as i see. People in the US try to keep up with Jones's by using the credit-card system. The wages went down not up and so its very hard to make a good living with a honest job with honest work.
I can imagine that people belonging to a minority have it even harder.
On the surface racism is gone, but underneath its still going strong. Just after the election one just needed to check twitter for example. Of course that maybe the fringe of society but i wonder what the unaccounted mass is that is not writing but thinking that way.
You can not educate people once they think and tick like that. You only can work on the kids since they may learn it otherwise. And i don't think it has anything to do if your left or right. It has something to do what person you are.
There will be always somewhat a bias within us which i think might be human nature, but we should be able to see eye to eye and see the human that we are.
Rational caution? Keep in mind these crime statistics are given in murders per 100,000 people I believe, so your chances of being murdered are still very low, and I acknowledged earlier that statistics cannot predict what any one person will do.
"At what point does knowledge of statistics tip over into racism?" It's a bogus question, which conveniently sidesteps what should be unabashed horror at the statistic itself...
Rational caution? Keep in mind these crime statistics are given in murders per 100,000 people I believe, so your chances of being murdered are still very low, and I acknowledged earlier that statistics cannot predict what any one person will do.
So apparently I have misunderstood you at some point along the line. I thought that you were fine with, e.g., racial profiling in some instances due to the statistics you were quoting.
Major crimes spiked by more than 12 percent after the number of stop-and-frisks conducted by the NYPD dropped dramatically earlier this year, The Post has learned.
Figures show there were 24,751 major crimes committed between Jan. 1 and March 31, a period when cops stopped 203,500 individuals and recovered 881 guns, according to sources.
In the following three months — between April 1 and June 30 — the number of stop-and-frisks cops conducted fell to 133,934 and the crime figures shot up to 27,832. The number of guns seized fell to 732.
There was no further analysis of the crime data immediately available.
But on the face of it, the statistics seem to provide the NYPD with evidence that — at least in this one period — more stop-and-frisks resulted in fewer crimes and more gun seizures.
Quote from: Krogenar"At what point does knowledge of statistics tip over into racism?" It's a bogus question, which conveniently sidesteps what should be unabashed horror at the statistic itself...I don't think it's a bogus question.
Knowledge of statistics can be used to justify racism, but I don't think it's inherently racist to factor in known statistics when making judgments of people and situations.I don't think people walk around with a sheaf of printed out statistics, and refer to them as they encounter various kinds of people. Yes, statistics (reality) could be used to justify racism, but again that is besides the point. Statistics can be used to analyze current policy and make it better -- even if only to acknowledge that existing policies are exacerbating the problem. We need to first acknowledge that there is a problem -- but that seems impossible. But back to profiling -- people can create a 'profile' on how to react to people based upon their experiences, and the statistics I posted show that there is (unfortunately) some substance to those fears. And the people who suffer from that reality disproportionately are young black men. And in my experience, if twenty young black men die in Chicago last month, no one from the Racism Brigade gives a damn, because they exist not to improve their own communities, but to race bait at every opportunity.
I was trying to get a feel for your position, since you were complaining about people jumping to conclusions and labeling you.That's diplomatic. Labeling me? They're calling me a racist for pointing out unwelcome facts. Are facts racist?
I agree that the state of large portions of the black population in the US is horrifying indeed, but it's orthogonal to the question I asked.Agreed -- your question is orthogonal (pointless) to the more urgent question -- how do we change the reality that that statistic represents. Instead, you want to know at what "tipping point" does it become racist to rely on this statistic for judging individuals. Meanwhile, Nubbinator is eager to make excuses and just call me a racist and ignore that reality. I believe the answer lies in the culture of the black community. It's got to change, and only they can change it. Also, I don't think the facts matter to your question. I don't think it would matter if statistics proved that 95% of all young black men were murderers, you would still be labeled a racist for either pointing it out, or acting on it by steering clear of young black men, or proposing that we change our policy. The problem (in my opinion) is that the black community will not own up to their own problems -- it's just so much easier to call everyone a racist and call it day.
Does holding that opinion make me a racist?
Does holding that opinion make me a racist?
absolutely 100% yes it totally does. yes.
I do not believe that institutionalized racism is a strong enough force anymore to hold black Americans back. Does holding that opinion make me a racist?
I think it is so pathetic that you can't make a more detailed argument than that, sth. All you can make are accusations of the most base, vile nature.
ok. you're a racist.
Or, you could just keep on calling me a racist, without even bothering to support your charge.
i think krog is trying to use statistics to backup racial stigmas, i can uses statistics too! i've been the victim of and/or been on the receiving end of store robberies in my teens on 5 occassions, 100% of the time it was commited by black people. 3 muggings and 2 store robberies working in a korean grocery store. so are all black ppl criminals? no, but if they look like a thug and dress like a thug, well they probably are a thug, these are probably the ones that the police are targeting for stop and frisk, i say good! frisk away
Krog you're coming across as angry and annoyed -- that doesn't help. And inserting my name every other sentence makes your response feel very condescending. But still, thank you for explaining your views in greater detail.
i think krog is trying to use statistics to backup racial stigmas,
i can uses statistics too! i've been the victim of and/or been on the receiving end of store robberies in my teens on 5 occassions, 100% of the time it was commited by black people. 3 muggings and 2 store robberies working in a korean grocery store. so are all black ppl criminals? no, but if they look like a thug and dress like a thug, well they probably are a thug, these are probably the ones that the police are targeting for stop and frisk, i say good! frisk away
i think krog is trying to use statistics to backup racial stigmas, i can uses statistics too! i've been the victim of and/or been on the receiving end of store robberies in my teens on 5 occassions, 100% of the time it was commited by black people. 3 muggings and 2 store robberies working in a korean grocery store. so are all black ppl criminals? no, but if they look like a thug and dress like a thug, well they probably are a thug, these are probably the ones that the police are targeting for stop and frisk, i say good! frisk away
'frisk black kids who dress in popular fashion because i am afraid of them'
Krog you're coming across as angry and annoyed -- that doesn't help. And inserting my name every other sentence makes your response feel very condescending. But still, thank you for explaining your views in greater detail.
i think krog is trying to use statistics to backup racial stigmas, i can uses statistics too! i've been the victim of and/or been on the receiving end of store robberies in my teens on 5 occassions, 100% of the time it was commited by black people. 3 muggings and 2 store robberies working in a korean grocery store. so are all black ppl criminals? no, but if they look like a thug and dress like a thug, well they probably are a thug, these are probably the ones that the police are targeting for stop and frisk, i say good! frisk away
• The likelihood a stop of an African American New Yorker yielded a weapon was half that of white New Yorkers stopped. The NYPD uncovered a weapon in one out every 49 stops of white New Yorkers. By contrast, it took the Department 71 stops of Latinos and 93 stops of African Americans to find a weapon.
• The likelihood a stop of an African American New Yorker yielded contraband was one-third less than that of white New Yorkers stopped. The NYPD uncovered contraband in one out every 43 stops of white New Yorkers. By contrast, it took the Department 57 stops of Latinos and 61 stops of African Americans to find contraband.
i think krog is trying to use statistics to backup racial stigmas, i can uses statistics too! i've been the victim of and/or been on the receiving end of store robberies in my teens on 5 occassions, 100% of the time it was commited by black people. 3 muggings and 2 store robberies working in a korean grocery store. so are all black ppl criminals? no, but if they look like a thug and dress like a thug, well they probably are a thug, these are probably the ones that the police are targeting for stop and frisk, i say good! frisk away
You do realize that analyzing the data from New York City's "stop and frisk" program reveals that white people are far more likely to be carrying weapons or contraband, right?Quote• The likelihood a stop of an African American New Yorker yielded a weapon was half that of white New Yorkers stopped. The NYPD uncovered a weapon in one out every 49 stops of white New Yorkers. By contrast, it took the Department 71 stops of Latinos and 93 stops of African Americans to find a weapon.
• The likelihood a stop of an African American New Yorker yielded contraband was one-third less than that of white New Yorkers stopped. The NYPD uncovered contraband in one out every 43 stops of white New Yorkers. By contrast, it took the Department 57 stops of Latinos and 61 stops of African Americans to find contraband.
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/05/22/2046451/white-people-stopped-by-new-york-police-are-more-likely-to-have-guns-or-drugs-than-minorities (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/05/22/2046451/white-people-stopped-by-new-york-police-are-more-likely-to-have-guns-or-drugs-than-minorities)
i think krog is trying to use statistics to backup racial stigmas, i can uses statistics too! i've been the victim of and/or been on the receiving end of store robberies in my teens on 5 occassions, 100% of the time it was commited by black people. 3 muggings and 2 store robberies working in a korean grocery store. so are all black ppl criminals? no, but if they look like a thug and dress like a thug, well they probably are a thug, these are probably the ones that the police are targeting for stop and frisk, i say good! frisk away
You do realize that analyzing the data from New York City's "stop and frisk" program reveals that white people are far more likely to be carrying weapons or contraband, right?Quote• The likelihood a stop of an African American New Yorker yielded a weapon was half that of white New Yorkers stopped. The NYPD uncovered a weapon in one out every 49 stops of white New Yorkers. By contrast, it took the Department 71 stops of Latinos and 93 stops of African Americans to find a weapon.
• The likelihood a stop of an African American New Yorker yielded contraband was one-third less than that of white New Yorkers stopped. The NYPD uncovered contraband in one out every 43 stops of white New Yorkers. By contrast, it took the Department 57 stops of Latinos and 61 stops of African Americans to find contraband.
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/05/22/2046451/white-people-stopped-by-new-york-police-are-more-likely-to-have-guns-or-drugs-than-minorities (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/05/22/2046451/white-people-stopped-by-new-york-police-are-more-likely-to-have-guns-or-drugs-than-minorities)
It doesn't reveal that white people are more likely to be carrying contraband though. It reveals that the white people they stopped were more likely to be carrying contraband. Do you think they were stopping white people in business suits?
That is more likely, yes. But really, my point is police are more likely to be more discriminatory when stopping white people than black people (that's essentially the issue we're talking about) and as a result the white people that are stopped are more likely to fit other profiling criteria besides race than black people stopped are.i think krog is trying to use statistics to backup racial stigmas, i can uses statistics too! i've been the victim of and/or been on the receiving end of store robberies in my teens on 5 occassions, 100% of the time it was commited by black people. 3 muggings and 2 store robberies working in a korean grocery store. so are all black ppl criminals? no, but if they look like a thug and dress like a thug, well they probably are a thug, these are probably the ones that the police are targeting for stop and frisk, i say good! frisk away
You do realize that analyzing the data from New York City's "stop and frisk" program reveals that white people are far more likely to be carrying weapons or contraband, right?Quote• The likelihood a stop of an African American New Yorker yielded a weapon was half that of white New Yorkers stopped. The NYPD uncovered a weapon in one out every 49 stops of white New Yorkers. By contrast, it took the Department 71 stops of Latinos and 93 stops of African Americans to find a weapon.
• The likelihood a stop of an African American New Yorker yielded contraband was one-third less than that of white New Yorkers stopped. The NYPD uncovered contraband in one out every 43 stops of white New Yorkers. By contrast, it took the Department 57 stops of Latinos and 61 stops of African Americans to find contraband.
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/05/22/2046451/white-people-stopped-by-new-york-police-are-more-likely-to-have-guns-or-drugs-than-minorities (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/05/22/2046451/white-people-stopped-by-new-york-police-are-more-likely-to-have-guns-or-drugs-than-minorities)
It doesn't reveal that white people are more likely to be carrying contraband though. It reveals that the white people they stopped were more likely to be carrying contraband. Do you think they were stopping white people in business suits?
Not sure what your point is here. Do you think they were stopping black people in business suits?
Basically , I think we all know - whether we admit it or not - that race is closely tied with socioeconomic status in the USA, and as a result black people are statistically more likely to fit a certain demographic that includes being more likely to come from a poorer background, a single parent family, a rough neighbourhood, etc. and as a result more likely to commit a crime, end up in prison, etc. (anyone that denies that's the case is either delusional or lying, in my opinion). That's unfortunate, but it's why I would argue racial profiling is actually justified by fact, rather than racism.
Basically , I think we all know - whether we admit it or not - that race is closely tied with socioeconomic status in the USA, and as a result black people are statistically more likely to fit a certain demographic that includes being more likely to come from a poorer background, a single parent family, a rough neighbourhood, etc. and as a result more likely to commit a crime, end up in prison, etc. (anyone that denies that's the case is either delusional or lying, in my opinion). That's unfortunate, but it's why I would argue racial profiling is actually justified by fact, rather than racism.
I really don't care if the chicken or egg came first, or about fixing the USA's social problems, or the topic in general, to be honest. I just think it's laughable when people act like people being more suspicious of young black men than they are white/Asian/whatever people is racism, when it's actually simply because young black men are per capita responsible for more crimes than any other demographic.Basically , I think we all know - whether we admit it or not - that race is closely tied with socioeconomic status in the USA, and as a result black people are statistically more likely to fit a certain demographic that includes being more likely to come from a poorer background, a single parent family, a rough neighbourhood, etc. and as a result more likely to commit a crime, end up in prison, etc. (anyone that denies that's the case is either delusional or lying, in my opinion). That's unfortunate, but it's why I would argue racial profiling is actually justified by fact, rather than racism.
It's hard to say which negative outcome is the result of another. Is criminality the result of poverty? Or is poverty the result of criminality? The important question is: how do we change it? I do not believe that criminality is directly related to poverty. Poverty is a relative term. No one in America who has the ability to lift their hand to their mouth is going to go hungry. Even the poorest among us likely has a HDTV. When Jesus said, "The poor will always be with you." he wasn't just talking about money. He was talking about other forms of wealth. My grandfather (German-Irish, liked his beer) had three jobs and seven children. He was by no means 'wealthy' but my mother and my aunts and uncles all recall him looking down the table at all of them and saying, "I may not have a lot of money, but I'm a very wealthy man." Ask yourself, if your house were to burn down, what would be more important to you, your stuff, or your family? Stuff can be replaced -- people cannot. Stable families represent a form of cultural wealth.
Progressive policies, in my view, have decimated the black family (destroying black cultural wealth) -- young black men are disproportionately more likely to grow up without a biological father living with them. I believe this leads to the aforementioned problems. The trouble is, it seems a whole lot easier to tear down and disincentivize fatherhood, than it is to build it back up. And it wasn't always this way. Studies have show that rates of fatherlessness in the 1950's among blacks and whites were equal most of the time, and sometimes lower for black Americans.
This isn't a new debate, either -- it started (at least in earnest) with Patrick Moynihan's report 'The Negro Family: The Case For National Action' -- please excuse the use of the word 'negro'; that was the established language of the time, and not an indication of racism. It can be found here: http://www.dol.gov/oasam/programs/history/webid-meynihan.htm
Moynihan, a Democrat, concluded that the black family in American was in serious trouble. His report was widely denounced as racist, however. But Moynihan was no racist.
I really don't care if the chicken or egg came first, or about fixing the USA's social problems, or the topic in general, to be honest. I just think it's laughable when people act like people being more suspicious of young black men than they are white/Asian/whatever people is racism, when it's actually simply because young black men are per capita responsible for more crimes than any other demographic.Basically , I think we all know - whether we admit it or not - that race is closely tied with socioeconomic status in the USA, and as a result black people are statistically more likely to fit a certain demographic that includes being more likely to come from a poorer background, a single parent family, a rough neighbourhood, etc. and as a result more likely to commit a crime, end up in prison, etc. (anyone that denies that's the case is either delusional or lying, in my opinion). That's unfortunate, but it's why I would argue racial profiling is actually justified by fact, rather than racism.
It's hard to say which negative outcome is the result of another. Is criminality the result of poverty? Or is poverty the result of criminality? The important question is: how do we change it? I do not believe that criminality is directly related to poverty. Poverty is a relative term. No one in America who has the ability to lift their hand to their mouth is going to go hungry. Even the poorest among us likely has a HDTV. When Jesus said, "The poor will always be with you." he wasn't just talking about money. He was talking about other forms of wealth. My grandfather (German-Irish, liked his beer) had three jobs and seven children. He was by no means 'wealthy' but my mother and my aunts and uncles all recall him looking down the table at all of them and saying, "I may not have a lot of money, but I'm a very wealthy man." Ask yourself, if your house were to burn down, what would be more important to you, your stuff, or your family? Stuff can be replaced -- people cannot. Stable families represent a form of cultural wealth.
Progressive policies, in my view, have decimated the black family (destroying black cultural wealth) -- young black men are disproportionately more likely to grow up without a biological father living with them. I believe this leads to the aforementioned problems. The trouble is, it seems a whole lot easier to tear down and disincentivize fatherhood, than it is to build it back up. And it wasn't always this way. Studies have show that rates of fatherlessness in the 1950's among blacks and whites were equal most of the time, and sometimes lower for black Americans.
This isn't a new debate, either -- it started (at least in earnest) with Patrick Moynihan's report 'The Negro Family: The Case For National Action' -- please excuse the use of the word 'negro'; that was the established language of the time, and not an indication of racism. It can be found here: http://www.dol.gov/oasam/programs/history/webid-meynihan.htm
Moynihan, a Democrat, concluded that the black family in American was in serious trouble. His report was widely denounced as racist, however. But Moynihan was no racist.
It's a bit of a dated comparison now, but it's like complaining that the TSA disproportionally stop and search young Arab men. I'm sure there are some political correctness diehards who actually do complain about this as well, but most people realise there's a logical reason for it.
yeah, sure, it's still racist dude, you can try to logic it away all you want but you're defending racist practices. not sorry if you're uncomfortable with that.It doesn't make me uncomfortable at all. I'm not American so I don't have the whole "white guilt" thing going on. Just saying "it's racist" isn't going to make it racist when there's sound logical reasons for using race as part of profile matching. If you were an airport scanner on the 12th of September, 2001, who would you pay more attention to, a Arab-looking young man, or a 70 year old Chinese woman? It's not racist to say the former, it's common sense. Same deal if you're a police officer performing frisk searches and choose more young black men to search, than you do other demographics. It's because that group is statistically more likely to be relevant, any actual racism on the part of those involved (which might well exist) is incidental. That's the sad reality. Sorry if you're uncomfortable with that.
Of the nearly 770,000 violent crimes committed every year, blacks commit 85 percent and whites commit 15 percent.
* Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Forty-five percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are black, and 10 percent are Hispanic. When whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are black.
* Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a white than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery.
* Blacks are 2.25 times more likely to commit officially-designated hate crimes against whites than vice versa.
Arrest data: FBI, Crime in the United States, 2001
(USGPO, 2002), p. 252. FBI, Crime in the United States, 2002
(USGPO, 2003), p. 252. FBI, Crime in the United States, 2003
(USGPO, 2004), p. 288
Of the nearly 770,000 violent crimes committed every year, blacks commit 85 percent and whites commit 15 percent.
...snipped...
Arrest data: FBI, Crime in the United States, 2001
(USGPO, 2002), p. 252. FBI, Crime in the United States, 2002
(USGPO, 2003), p. 252. FBI, Crime in the United States, 2003
(USGPO, 2004), p. 288
we only have blood & honour here. and no, it's zog that pays me.Of the nearly 770,000 violent crimes committed every year, blacks commit 85 percent and whites commit 15 percent.
* Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Forty-five percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are black, and 10 percent are Hispanic. When whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are black.
* Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a white than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery.
* Blacks are 2.25 times more likely to commit officially-designated hate crimes against whites than vice versa.
Arrest data: FBI, Crime in the United States, 2001
(USGPO, 2002), p. 252. FBI, Crime in the United States, 2002
(USGPO, 2003), p. 252. FBI, Crime in the United States, 2003
(USGPO, 2004), p. 288
How's Stormfront treating you?
The situation is similar around here, a unproportional high percentage of violent crimes is committed by a certain group of immigrants. But instead of hating em, I blame the politicians who should have foreseen the effect of letting endless amounts immigrants from totally different cultural environment and economic state in.
Simple laws as "No more than 2 immigrant family per 10 linked housings are allowed" would have prevented the "ghettos" we have now, it would have prevented that this people get put offsite our community, it would have prevented that they live under their own people with their own language and their own rules and laws, it would have forced em to integrate and live as the rest of the population, it would have forced em to live WITH the others, not aside, and it would have forced us to accept em and live with em, things would be different...
Instead we have people who live here for 10 or 20 years already but still don't speak our language, we have regions where even the police is afraid to enter at night with less than a dozen man, we have schools where more than 50% of the scholars are immigrants, we have areas where the natives are the "foreigners" and get a fair amount of racism from the immigrants (and if you attempt to talk back, you get called racist or beaten up, or both). But did our politicians learn from this? Nope... Currently the next wave of immigrants (from even poorer countries) rolls in, negative effects are already visible, duh!
I might be wrong, but TheSoulhunter seems to be describing immigration pertaining to the EU (specifically regarding Directive 2004/38/EC), which is quite distinct from immigration in the US, and in general. Basically, within the EU, everyone is free to move from country to country with no entry requirements or restrictions whatsoever. Not only that, but the EU also stipulates that foreign EU residents have to be treated identically to citizens of a country with regard to social welfare.
None of this causes any problems between the older established EU members like the UK, Germany, France, etc. but the last decade has seen EU enlargements include much of the ex-USSR, like Poland, Latvia, Romania, etc. where conditions are different, and has resulted in a large number of migrants from those countries enter (again, perfectly legally) the aforementioned wealthier ones.
It doesn't matter to me if immigrants learn English -- that should be their choice.
http://www.wnd.com/2012/05/wave-of-black-mobs-brutalizing-whites/
I don't watch TV because TV's are stupid. TV's don't run Windows.
No.
so with big brother at the end of the week, there is one person who is "head of household" HOH and that person elects 2 ppl to get voted off. In a roundabout way the super racist blond girl has elected the two black ppl. (currently they are a minor couple)
The situation is similar around here, a unproportional high percentage of violent crimes is committed by a certain group of immigrants. But instead of hating em, I blame the politicians who should have foreseen the effect of letting endless amounts immigrants from totally different cultural environment and economic state in.
Simple laws as "No more than 2 immigrant family per 10 linked housings are allowed" would have prevented the "ghettos" we have now, it would have prevented that this people get put offsite our community, it would have prevented that they live under their own people with their own language and their own rules and laws, it would have forced em to integrate and live as the rest of the population, it would have forced em to live WITH the others, not aside, and it would have forced us to accept em and live with em, things would be different...
Instead we have people who live here for 10 or 20 years already but still don't speak our language, we have regions where even the police is afraid to enter at night with less than a dozen man, we have schools where more than 50% of the scholars are immigrants, we have areas where the natives are the "foreigners" and get a fair amount of racism from the immigrants (and if you attempt to talk back, you get called racist or beaten up, or both). But did our politicians learn from this? Nope... Currently the next wave of immigrants (from even poorer countries) rolls in, negative effects are already visible, duh!