geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboard Keycaps => Topic started by: Binge on Sun, 14 July 2013, 19:02:57
-
So recently I got out my DSA retro set to outfit a recently built ergodox. I'm not very thrilled with the results which were a lot of broken switches. If you buy DSA caps from SP or have any want to buy them from SP make sure you check the bases.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13574727/20130714_161823.jpg)
The 2 caps on the left came off my board without any problem.
The 2 caps on the right took(destroyed) the entire switch when the cap was removed.. I tried to go at it gently after I noticed a pattern, but unfortunately I could only get the stems out of the keycaps with plyers.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13574727/20130714_161845.png)
The pattern here is the bases of the caps. If they have 4 points and some extra cut away the cap then they are good, but a simple cross shape will destroy your switches. You can test it if you want on some crappy ones, but you might not want to completely ruin any spares you might have lying around.
-
I recently bought their DSA PBT blank caps, in all black. The larger caps (mods) had holes that were too large for my stabilizer nubs, so my space bar and right shift and others are a little wonky. Any suggestions besides super glue?
-
I'm at a loss brother. Really have no idea why 1/2 of my caps are like this and the other half aren't. Even my relendables (which should all be the same mold) have this defect in about half of the keys.
-
I recently bought their DSA PBT blank caps, in all black. The larger caps (mods) had holes that were too large for my stabilizer nubs, so my space bar and right shift and others are a little wonky. Any suggestions besides super glue?
put some paper/tape over the stabs.
-
Which are the 'bad' ones in the picture?
-
I recently bought their DSA PBT blank caps, in all black. The larger caps (mods) had holes that were too large for my stabilizer nubs, so my space bar and right shift and others are a little wonky. Any suggestions besides super glue?
put some paper/tape over the stabs.
Ohh thanks gnubag!
-
How does that destroy the switch?
-
Paper or Saran Wrap will shim the caps that are too loose.
As for why some are tight and some are not... I see this on my 3d printer, how fast the plastic cools can effect how much shrinkage there is. On an open printer, with no enclosure, simply opening a window or door can make visible changes in the object as some layers will shrink more than others. The same can happen by changing the temp they are molded at, some of my ABS needs 227c, another prefers 119c, not only can different manufacturers effect this, coloring can too. My bet is that they were done at different times, and a temp was set wrong.
Looking closer at the caps, it looks like they were cooled at a different rate, or on a different mold.
-
How does that destroy the switch?
The stem was ripped out of the switch. The only way to remove the stems without damaging the switch is to disassemble the switch, not rip it out through the top.
-
I recently bought their DSA PBT blank caps, in all black. The larger caps (mods) had holes that were too large for my stabilizer nubs, so my space bar and right shift and others are a little wonky. Any suggestions besides super glue?
put some paper/tape over the stabs.
Ohh thanks gnubag!
Or a small square of plastic, say from a plastic lunch bag (I have used that to good effect).
Or even a small piece of teflon tape.
-
I recently bought their DSA PBT blank caps, in all black. The larger caps (mods) had holes that were too large for my stabilizer nubs, so my space bar and right shift and others are a little wonky. Any suggestions besides super glue?
put some paper/tape over the stabs.
Ohh thanks gnubag!
the caps on the right.
-
I recently bought their DSA PBT blank caps, in all black. The larger caps (mods) had holes that were too large for my stabilizer nubs, so my space bar and right shift and others are a little wonky. Any suggestions besides super glue?
Teflon tape has been best in my experience (= pipe tape, you can get it from a hardware store plumbing department for a couple of dollars).
-
Same thing happened to me with the switch coming out. Not only that the stem on the cap broke off...
-
Yo that's messed up.
-
well, it's also because the stems are crazy tight on all the caps (rotation thingy)
-
Pretty sure in the clear stem thread someone said that PBT DSA SP caps are the tightest...looks like it's true
sorry to hear m8
-
these are ABS doubleshots... look at the stems, some have relief while the others do not.
::EDIT:: added more to picture in first post.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13574727/20130714_161845.png)
-
I had this same problem. In order to not destroy the switch, I had to hold the stem with a long, thin object, like a small screw driver, and push down on the switch while I pulled up on the keycap.
-
OUCH!
-
I ordered PBT white blank set from SP, I should check it when I receive it.
-
Broken switches ouch. I broke a switch on my Ducky 5mins from getting it from the mailman, :(
-
Ducky caps are annoying like that too--at least the Shine ones. Had the worst time getting it off new MX Clears (well a test switch that I specifically tried the cap on to see the fit). Clears + Ducky Shine caps = extra tough to get off.
-
LOL. Mine was other way round. I was trying a custom cap which I had received the day before (Didn't get time to try it on any other keyboard). So as soon as I opened the Ducky Zero, I tried the keycap. It fit easily but when removing it, it pulled the blue stem as well as the white part from my Cherry MX Blue.
-
I managed to get some of the "bad" caps off of MX Clears with no damage, but for anyone else who wishes to try... Go very slowly with this!
-
I don't know if this works but how about lubing the outside of the stems on the switch before putting these caps on?
-
I will check it. Thanks!
-
oh, after read this thread, I found some of my DSA keycaps have same bad stems.
then, couldn't I use them? or is there any way to prevent pulling up sliders together when I remove them from keyboard?
-
They can absolutely be removed. Just be VERY CAREFUL when doing it. Patience is extremely valuable.
-
Folks !!
Never worry about it.
I have a good news for the poor people here.
It is a way old but works fine, and have never seen any finer design than this one.
Here comes the most safest keytop remover.
Come and try it.
Main Idea
[attachimg=1]
How to work
[attachimg=2]
Blueprints
[attachimg=3]
Details
[attachimg=4]
Proto
[attachimg=5]
The Finals
[attachimg=6]
-
Those are from rispter's guide. Nothing new.
-
Folks !!
Never worry about it.
I have a good news for the poor people here.
It is a way old but works fine, and have never seen any finer design than this one.
Here comes the most safest keytop remover.
Come and try it.
Main Idea
(Attachment Link)
How to work
(Attachment Link)
Blueprints
(Attachment Link)
Details
(Attachment Link)
Proto
(Attachment Link)
The Finals
(Attachment Link)
You should at least credit the original (http://imgur.com/a/DyaCf)...
-
What's that ? R's guide ?
Sorry, I know nothing about the guide.
I do not have any kind of recent news (i.e. couple of years).
I do not care about the guide says.
The only thing I know clearly is, the idea is MINE from the very first time. And, Of course the photos are all mine too.
I do not care about you understand the idea or not, and you are going to use it or not.
The only thing I know clearly is, If you do not use it you will ruin your switches for sure.
-
You should at least credit the original (http://imgur.com/a/DyaCf)...
You guys do not know ABC.
The link above are just silly one. Most of the contents are stollen, and (s)he does not understand it at all.
Idiot.
-
I think Hamblet's design is to use it as a lever. Meaning hold down the switch while pushing the cap up like a lever.
Correct me if I am wrong Hamblet. Thanks.
-
I think Hamblet's design is to use it as a lever. Meaning hold down the switch while pushing the cap up like a lever.
Correct me if I am wrong Hamblet. Thanks.
You are absolutely right, clever girl !!!
It is safe because you will not see the bare stomach (slider and spring) of your lovely switches out of the blue.
It is safe because you will not scratch the face of your tender keytops (think about the stupid metallic pullers. The worst is Topre's).
It is safe because you will not break the stem of keytops, especially the weakest one of the Alps'.
It is cheap, tiny and looking good.
It is nice, isn't it ?
-
Those are from rispter's guide. Nothing new.
Folks !!
Never worry about it.
I have a good news for the poor people here.
It is a way old but works fine, and have never seen any finer design than this one.
Here comes the most safest keytop remover.
Come and try it.
Main Idea
(Attachment Link)
How to work
(Attachment Link)
Blueprints
(Attachment Link)
Details
(Attachment Link)
Proto
(Attachment Link)
The Finals
(Attachment Link)
You should at least credit the original (http://imgur.com/a/DyaCf)...
If you guys look Ripster gives credit to Hamblet!!
And Hamblet, that is really cool would you be interested in selling a couple sets? I'm building a key cap keychain and key cap puller collection.
-
Basically, I am not intending to sell it. I just made a unique design, opened it for the purpose of eliminating the uneasiness of harvesting keytops.
If you want to have it, buy a box of paper clip at stationery. Unbend it and bend it again with your will. That's it. Easy.
Good Luck my friend.
-
The DSA tooling was designed for ABS not PBT. PBT shrinks more so, depending on the molding conditions, the mount could be slightly smaller and fit more tightly on a key switch. The stems of key switches can also vary slightly. The right combination can result in a very tight fit.
-SP
that is what I got told from SP when I asked about my PBT blank set.
-
The DSA tooling was designed for ABS not PBT. PBT shrinks more so, depending on the molding conditions, the mount could be slightly smaller and fit more tightly on a key switch. The stems of key switches can also vary slightly. The right combination can result in a very tight fit.
-SP
that is what I got told from SP when I asked about my PBT blank set.
but DSA retro set is ABS, isn't it?
-
It is, but SP also makes blank DSA-profile PBT caps.
-
All of Ripster's stuff used to be here before he was banned and the server started going off-line every few hours. He was quite the prolific poster here at GH. He does credit all of the sources in your link - including Hamblet.
Pretty cool design Hamblet!
Folks !!
Never worry about it.
I have a good news for the poor people here.
It is a way old but works fine, and have never seen any finer design than this one.
Here comes the most safest keytop remover.
Come and try it.
Main Idea
(Attachment Link)
How to work
(Attachment Link)
Blueprints
(Attachment Link)
Details
(Attachment Link)
Proto
(Attachment Link)
The Finals
(Attachment Link)
You should at least credit the original (http://imgur.com/a/DyaCf)...
[/quote
-
I have yet to find any PBT DSA caps that don't fit right, and I have over 1,250 of them.
-
My bad about the Ripster link and proper credit!
-
I have yet to find any PBT DSA caps that don't fit right, and I have over 1,250 of them.
Maybe your caps are just funky ;)
-
My bad about the Ripster link and proper credit!
Says, Mr. R is not here anymore. I do not know why, and (sorry) I am not interested in that.
One thing I know is, He is a not so bad guy.
I got no bad feelings about him.
-
Maybe your caps are just funky ;)
I can always get some of them prepped in a color you like. PM me! $28 + shipping. Beware: I have found no blue dyes that work. Purple is my favorite so far.
-
Still handy though :p
-
All of Ripster's stuff used to be here before he was banned
Ripster got banned? What for?
-
All of Ripster's stuff used to be here before he was banned
Ripster got banned? What for?
[attachimg=1]
-
i'm very lucky cuz my DA retro is all good! :p
-
i'm very lucky cuz my DA retro is all good! :p
Nice. 25% of my caps are the "bad" kind.
-
All of Ripster's stuff used to be here before he was banned
Ripster got banned? What for?
(Attachment Link)
I haven't been browsing the forums regularly for a while now, so, what happened?
-
I just saw this and I have the same issue with my black blank set that I got with my ergodox from the very first group buy. I was wondering why I was pulling whole switch tops off when trying to remove the caps xD.
-
I thought croissants were supposed to have a gentle, flaky touch? What happened? :D
I wonder if any of my dyed caps are like this. I still haven't found any.
-
I have some PBT blanks that just arrived and have the defective bases... I noticed it after one of my caps took a long time to put on, and so I tried to take it off. It took 20 minutes to take it off and the switch came half way apart...
-
Has anyone been in touch with SP about it?
-
(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13574727/20130726_155702.jpg)
-
Yeah I see the same on the set you made for my wife, meebaws. And of course I have a buttery smooth flaky touch, but sometimes the rage of an old croissant comes through and rips the world apart ;)
-
Are all of the caps in that set weirded out or only some?
-
I only see it on some caps. Not going to go through the whole bunch to see how many, but it's clear that the stems aren't forming as they should =)
I can't believe people haven't noticed this before xD
-
Yeah, I guess you're right. I pulled 15 random caps out of the big bag I got from SP (1x DSA PBT, UP color) and 3 of them are the weirded out ones. I am quite confused by this.
-
So should someone contact SP?
-
Nobody else has submitted concern to SP AFAIK
-
No one can tell me why Ripster was banned? :(
-
No one can tell me why Ripster was banned? :(
Well in a thread about DSA caps fitting too tight is probably not the right place.
Try pm'ing a mod and asking.
-
No one can tell me why Ripster was banned? :(
Well in a thread about DSA caps fitting too tight is probably not the right place.
Try pm'ing a mod and asking.
This isn't the worst spot to ask... He LOVED SP keys and pointed out his affection frequently... ;););)
Lol...
-
Had the same issue with the PBT DSA blanks packages. Close to 10% look wrong :-(
Anyone know of a workaround? File down the corners maybe?
-
man. i hope the dolch replica sets that Team REDLINE are getting made by SP dont have this issue....
-
I PM'd Demoligato and Druger regarding this issue, hopefully the Druger can get in touch with SP before the DSA Dolch goes into production.
-
So should someone contact SP?
sent!
-
I'm gradually amassing a small collection of retro DSA novelty keycaps, and none of them have exhibited this so.
-
I am not having a issue but I have mx reds and mx blacks
novelty dsa caps....
I bought all of the techkeys.us green retro novelty key caps..
wasd set wad has the special stem marking and S is what has the standard flat stem
geekhack has a standard flat stem
all of the arrows have the standard flat stem
the same "special" stem pattern is also present on all of the keys I have from techkeys.us and keypop that are standard dcs profile.
my guess is that it doesn't have anything to do with the special pattern but warping that may have occurred during manufacturing.
does anyone have a way of measuring the gap sizes of the cross pattern to determine if the gaps could be modded to be at spec?
-
man. i hope the dolch replica sets that Team REDLINE are getting made by SP dont have this issue....
fyi I am not part of team redline :) just want to make sure that is clear.
that is why I was allowed to use the otd.kr molds for the dsa stepped capslock keys
-
Domo-
We looked into our tooling and have isolated the 'core pins' that are giving you trouble. We won't be using these core pins on any future GH group buys. I was hoping you could answer one question for me though -
Are people having trouble with the larger size keys that have more than one stem on them?
I know they may 'look' like the others, but I wasn't sure if they were a problem.
Thanks!
SP
-
Domo-
We looked into our tooling and have isolated the 'core pins' that are giving you trouble. We won't be using these core pins on any future GH group buys. I was hoping you could answer one question for me though -
Are people having trouble with the larger size keys that have more than one stem on them?
I know they may 'look' like the others, but I wasn't sure if they were a problem.
Thanks!
SP
So what about all the keys that have been made that have problems :eek:
-
I would contact the organizer of the groupbuy you have an issue with.
I was only asked to see if someone could help answer that question about the larger size multiple stem keycaps...
-
Didnt had any problem with the DSA Retro caps at all.
The problem with the larger keys are maybe that they are little bit to loose....but this can be easily fixed by putting some thin paper inside the stem.
-
Didnt had any problem with the DSA Retro caps at all.
The problem with the larger keys are maybe that they are little bit to loose....but this can be easily fixed by putting some thin paper inside the stem.
what cherry mx switches are you using?
-
I used them only on mx reds yet. maybe i should mention that I had the looseness problems only with these tiny white costar stab inserts....they just dont hold...and you have to add some paper to keep them in the stem.
-
I used them only on mx reds yet. maybe i should mention that I had the looseness problems only with these tiny white costar stab inserts....they just dont hold...and you have to add some paper to keep them in the stem.
That's fairly normal for costar stabs.
-
I didn't have a problem fitting the caps, but i had one cap weirdly shaped
-
I didn't have a problem fitting the caps, but i had one cap weirdly shaped
That is a deep dish, perfect for "F" or "J" or what ever keys other layouts use to help you find the home row.
-
oh, i see, thanks for clearing that up :thumb:
-
There was never a problem fitting them, the problem starts when you want to take them off.
I wish I cared enough to actually test every single one of the dsa blanks I have, but I don't, so I won't.
-
So glad they won't be using those pins any longer. It was really sh!tty to break switches over trying to swap my keycaps.
Domo is the boss. DSA gb runners were notified and nothing had been done. To my own fault I was also unable to contact SP in a timely fashion.
3 cheers for Domo!
-
Matt3o and samwisekoi are incredible. they deserve some thanks for all the hard work they put in on the dsa retro GB.
I really need more information to report back to SP.
Binge,
could you look at your keys that are larger then 1x and tell me if any of them have the stems effected by these "pins"
also binge.... what cherry switches did you have this issue with... was it clears. I am trying to narrow this down for them.
-
Domo-
We looked into our tooling and have isolated the 'core pins' that are giving you trouble. We won't be using these core pins on any future GH group buys. I was hoping you could answer one question for me though -
Are people having trouble with the larger size keys that have more than one stem on them?
I know they may 'look' like the others, but I wasn't sure if they were a problem.
Thanks!
SP
No problems with the larger sized caps, but none of them have the "bad" pins
I was using cherry white stems which were the worst. The reds I have do not have such severe issues.
-
thanks I will send this to SP
-
I just got the plastic keycap puller from SP. Highly recommend: http://keycapsdirect.com/marketplace.php
-
I just got the plastic keycap puller from SP. Highly recommend: http://keycapsdirect.com/marketplace.php
this will not help with the situation discussed in the thread.
the other one that is made with paper clips will though as it will get between the switch top and the keycap.
-
I just got the plastic keycap puller from SP. Highly recommend: http://keycapsdirect.com/marketplace.php (http://keycapsdirect.com/marketplace.php)
this will not help with the situation discussed in the thread.
the other one that is made with paper clips will though as it will get between the switch top and the keycap.
like this one? (Hamblet made these ;) )
[attachimg=1]
-
Folks !!
Never worry about it.
I have a good news for the poor people here.
It is a way old but works fine, and have never seen any finer design than this one.
Here comes the most safest keytop remover.
Come and try it.
Main Idea
(Attachment Link)
I thought you were going to use the lego crowbars hahaha
But DAMN I was blown away, great work sir!
I will be making some just for fun because I like having extra tools around, and this looks amazing!
+1
-
Broken switches ouch. I broke a switch on my Ducky 5mins from getting it from the mailman, :(
I did the same thing with my Ducky 9008 g2 Clear, a solution to the bad caps is to gently file the inside with a jeweler's file or a small hobby file. if you take too much out you can always shim the cap with teflon tape.
I have noticed that this happens on all kinds of caps not just new ABS Doubles, I have an old Wyse board that did this this morning.
The only solution I have found is to be really gentle, take it slow, and wiggle the cap from side to side while removing it. Taking them off at an angle helps to not rip the stem out of the switch as well. Luckily though the only thing that tends to get torn up is the top of the switch housing and occasionally the stem, if it is just the housing top it is a pretty easy fix; swap in a new top.
This is why it is a great idea to keep spare switches around.
-
Extra switches, yeah. I've swapped out one switch (the one I destroyed), and you never know that you have to file the stem or do somethting else until you find out it is too tight :P