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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: oTurtlez on Mon, 15 July 2013, 09:13:52
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So I've yet to try clears at all, and finally had a nice sit down with some browns, and I've gotta say I'm not a fan. When I was typing fast, whereas I usually bottom out, they felt no different from reds. The only time I felt the bump was when I was looking for it and at that point it just felt scratchy and like a bit of a nuisance. I'm not sure if clears would be any different due to the larger bump, but I can say I'm definitely not a brown fan. Ever since I typed on my friends reds, which, I wasn't a fan of on my pure, but on his QF TK, which happens to be plate mounted, I actually really liked them, but now I want another cherry board. It'd be nice to switch from Topre after the last year or so, but I'm not sure which switch I should go with. I don't mind blues, kinda don't mind reds, not a fan of browns and blacks, and haven't tried any others. Ideas?
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The bump on Clears is definitely much more well defined--no way to miss it. Only thing is that new Clears will probably have some amount of friction before they are broken in, so I would not expect a smooth bump like you'd get with rubber domes (and maybe Topre--I've not tried it). But they are definitely bumpy.
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If you can get a hold of them, I would try some MX Whites. Besides that my vote is on plate mounted reds.
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Plate mounted reds vs PCB mounted seemed night and day. I actually enjoyed typing on his board. I'll have to look for a POS clear board and maybe a white one. What are whites again? Dampened blues essentially?
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Clears are great, definitely my favorite Cherry switch. Nice big tactile bump, you can't miss it. However, they're a little unusual and take some time to get used to, and not everyone ends up liking them. If you tend to dislike heavy switches then I would recommend against them.
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Clears are great, definitely my favorite Cherry switch. Nice big tactile bump, you can't miss it. However, they're a little unusual and take some time to get used to, and not everyone ends up liking them. If you tend to dislike heavy switches then I would recommend against them.
One reason why I wanted to go ergo-clear instead of straight clear. I do prefer a lighter switch, anywhere around 40 - 50g is preferable for me I believe.
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IMHO MX Clears > MX Browns by a large margin, and I second what the OP said about them "being scratchy", as if the tactile bump seems to impede upon the keypress rather than enhancing it.
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IMHO MX Clears > MX Browns by a large margin, and I second what the OP said about them "being scratchy", as if the tactile bump seems to impede upon the keypress rather than enhancing it.
100% on that second part. I didn't even notice it until I slowed my keypress down, and then it was just annoying if anything. I really wanted to like browns too.
EDIT: I guess ideally I would like a clicky switch that wasn't as loud as blues. That'd probably be perfect.
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The scratchy part is not from Browns. It's from Cherry switches often having some initial friction before the stem and the parts in slides along get smoothed out by physical friction from the up/down motion over time--it's significantly worse in some batches. I've tried scratchy Clears too, as well as scratchy Blacks and Browns. All brand new, of course. I've also gotten very smooth brand new Browns, which is uncommon. If you haven't tried enough different batches of switches / keyboards yet, you may not realize that the friction is a variable but always present factor that gets better with use. Low-friction worn-in Browns have no scratchy feeling, and those that come smooth from the factory (less common). If you don't like friction, my best advice is to get a used keyboard / used switches. Lubrication does not eliminate the friction. I can tell the difference between my lubed used Clears and my lubed brand new Clears quite easily.
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IMHO MX Clears > MX Browns by a large margin, and I second what the OP said about them "being scratchy", as if the tactile bump seems to impede upon the keypress rather than enhancing it.
100% on that second part. I didn't even notice it until I slowed my keypress down, and then it was just annoying if anything. I really wanted to like browns too.
EDIT: I guess ideally I would like a clicky switch that wasn't as loud as blues. That'd probably be perfect.
You should definitely try to some some MX White switches then, they really are basically "The Quiet Man's Clicky Switch" lol. Just keep in mind that they do have a high actuation force like MX Greens.
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The scratchy part is not from Browns. It's from Cherry switches often having some initial friction before the stem and the parts in slides along get smoothed out by physical friction from the up/down motion over time--it's significantly worse in some batches. I've tried scratchy Clears too, as well as scratchy Blacks and Browns. All brand new, of course. I've also gotten very smooth brand new Browns, which is uncommon. If you haven't tried enough different batches of switches / keyboards yet, you may not realize that the friction is a variable but always present factor that gets better with use. Low-friction worn-in Browns have no scratchy feeling, and those that come smooth from the factory (less common). If you don't like friction, my best advice is to get a used keyboard / used switches. Lubrication does not eliminate the friction. I can tell the difference between my lubed used Clears and my lubed brand new Clears quite easily.
Other than my original BWU, I never really gave my pure w/ reds a chance. I used it for a bit and took it with me when I went somewhere with my laptop but I never really put a lot of hours on it. Are there any brands that offer clears, or am I going to have to get a blue board and source some clears / stems?
IMHO MX Clears > MX Browns by a large margin, and I second what the OP said about them "being scratchy", as if the tactile bump seems to impede upon the keypress rather than enhancing it.
100% on that second part. I didn't even notice it until I slowed my keypress down, and then it was just annoying if anything. I really wanted to like browns too.
EDIT: I guess ideally I would like a clicky switch that wasn't as loud as blues. That'd probably be perfect.
You should definitely try to some some MX White switches then, they really are basically "The Quiet Man's Clicky Switch" lol. Just keep in mind that they do have a high actuation force like MX Greens.
Anyone try white stems on blue springs? And if so, where the hell am I going to find ~90 white stems haha.
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Get MX Whites, put MX Black springs in them. You get a lighter White switch with a quiet click.
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MX Clears.
My first mechanical keyboard had MX Browns, and although I really like the change from rubber dome, I never looked back when I got a chance to try MX Clears.
Although, to be honest, I probably prefer MX Whites to MX Clears, but I've only had one keyboard with those (SkiData).
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IIRC, whites have a more pronounced bump than browns. They have a "soft" unique click that is maybe 1/3 as loud as blues.
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EDIT: I guess ideally I would like a clicky switch that wasn't as loud as blues. That'd probably be perfect.
Do you want a quieter switch because of the noise level, or because of annoyance? If the latter, then you might want to consider buckling springs. The noise level is louder, but IMO the sound is much less annoying than Blues over long periods of use, probably because it's lower pitched.
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EDIT: I guess ideally I would like a clicky switch that wasn't as loud as blues. That'd probably be perfect.
Do you want a quieter switch because of the noise level, or because of annoyance? If the latter, then you might want to consider buckling springs. The noise level is louder, but IMO the sound is much less annoying than Blues over long periods of use, probably because it's lower pitched.
I've got a Model M, but it's noise level. I would love a quiet click, and the MX White w/ Black springs sounds like a good idea. I'll have to buy a MX Black board and source out some white switches / stems. Anyone got ideas on sources for those?
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EDIT: I guess ideally I would like a clicky switch that wasn't as loud as blues. That'd probably be perfect.
Do you want a quieter switch because of the noise level, or because of annoyance? If the latter, then you might want to consider buckling springs. The noise level is louder, but IMO the sound is much less annoying than Blues over long periods of use, probably because it's lower pitched.
I've got a Model M, but it's noise level. I would love a quiet click, and the MX White w/ Black springs sounds like a good idea. I'll have to buy a MX Black board and source out some white switches / stems. Anyone got ideas on sources for those?
I got MX White switches via a mini-GB run by CommunistWitchDr, I think his source was http://www.rapidonline.com/Electronic-Components/Cherry-12-V-DC-Button-Module-MX1A-A1NN-50-2495 (http://www.rapidonline.com/Electronic-Components/Cherry-12-V-DC-Button-Module-MX1A-A1NN-50-2495)
The 7Bit GB is another option, albeit a pretty long time-line.
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EDIT: I guess ideally I would like a clicky switch that wasn't as loud as blues. That'd probably be perfect.
Do you want a quieter switch because of the noise level, or because of annoyance? If the latter, then you might want to consider buckling springs. The noise level is louder, but IMO the sound is much less annoying than Blues over long periods of use, probably because it's lower pitched.
I've got a Model M, but it's noise level. I would love a quiet click, and the MX White w/ Black springs sounds like a good idea. I'll have to buy a MX Black board and source out some white switches / stems. Anyone got ideas on sources for those?
I got MX White switches via a mini-GB run by CommunistWitchDr, I think his source was http://www.rapidonline.com/Electronic-Components/Cherry-12-V-DC-Button-Module-MX1A-A1NN-50-2495 (http://www.rapidonline.com/Electronic-Components/Cherry-12-V-DC-Button-Module-MX1A-A1NN-50-2495)
The 7Bit GB is another option, albeit a pretty long time-line.
Do you by chance have a link to the 7Bit GB?
EDIT: Nevermind, I found it. Gonna be waiting until september for them due to them being out of stock, but ~$70 shipped for 90 switches isn't bad. What is bad is that I'll be away at school. Guess I'll have to bring my soldering iron and have it shipped there :D
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Now comes a curveball. I can get a barely used Filco w/ blacks for 110, and 90 switches for 70, and then do all the work myself, or I can buy a Phantom w/ 55g Whites in a Filco camo case w/ a whisker cable for ~240. Opinions?
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55g???
Personally, anything below 62g makes me want to smash the keyboard into tiny bits. Way too light for me.
Wait a second, 55g Whites? Those would feel like Blues. And they would lose their soft muted click. Unsure why that happens but when I tested them for my review (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44749.0), they sounded and felt like Blues.
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55g???
Personally, anything below 62g makes me want to smash the keyboard into tiny bits. Way too light for me.
What's the bottom-out force on standard blues and reds? And does the 55g pertain to bottoming out or actuation? I've been out of the Cherry game for way too long.
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55g implies Korean springs so it would be at bottom out. I think Reds are 45 cN actuation and Blues are 55 cN actuation.
So 55g Whites would be slightly lighter than Blues. I would highly recommend you not go below 62g since the lighter springs seem to mess with the click. Again, refer to my previous post where I link to my review. I tested a bunch of springs w/ an MX White switch.
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55g implies Korean springs so it would be at bottom out. I think Reds are 45 cN actuation and Blues are 55 cN actuation.
So 55g Whites would be slightly lighter than Blues. I would highly recommend you not go below 62g since the lighter springs seem to mess with the click. Again, refer to my previous post where I link to my review. I tested a bunch of springs w/ an MX White switch.
Gahhhhh. This is why I like Topre. So much more simple when there's less choices haha.
And of course this wonderful board happens to come up but there's just that one small problem. Do you need to desolder the switches to swap springs on a phantom?
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If you're looking out to try some switches, there's a group buy over on deskthority that has every keyswitch. I'm getting 1 of each (hopefully) for a total of $11 with shipping.
http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/cherry-mx-taking-pre-orders-t2760.html
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That's the 7Bit buy that was referred to above Spartan. It's going to take a while for those switches to ship.
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55g implies Korean springs so it would be at bottom out. I think Reds are 45 cN actuation and Blues are 55 cN actuation.
So 55g Whites would be slightly lighter than Blues. I would highly recommend you not go below 62g since the lighter springs seem to mess with the click. Again, refer to my previous post where I link to my review. I tested a bunch of springs w/ an MX White switch.
Gahhhhh. This is why I like Topre. So much more simple when there's less choices haha.
And of course this wonderful board happens to come up but there's just that one small problem. Do you need to desolder the switches to swap springs on a phantom?
The phantom has the extra slots to allow for switch top removal without desoldering!
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55g implies Korean springs so it would be at bottom out. I think Reds are 45 cN actuation and Blues are 55 cN actuation.
So 55g Whites would be slightly lighter than Blues. I would highly recommend you not go below 62g since the lighter springs seem to mess with the click. Again, refer to my previous post where I link to my review. I tested a bunch of springs w/ an MX White switch.
Gahhhhh. This is why I like Topre. So much more simple when there's less choices haha.
And of course this wonderful board happens to come up but there's just that one small problem. Do you need to desolder the switches to swap springs on a phantom?
The phantom has the extra slots to allow for switch top removal without desoldering!
Given it has the WFD plate and I can do that, I'mma get this beauty!
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What about the difference in the initial bump with the clears compared to the blues?
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If you like blues at all you may want to consider buckling spring. To me, once I tried BS I couldn't go back to blues.
Much like how once I tried clears I couldn't ever like browns.
And lubed vs unlubed. And it goes on and on x.x