geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Yirg on Mon, 22 July 2013, 09:32:15
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I need more room on my desk (to fit a Logitech G13 game keypad) and am looking at tenkeyless keyboards. So far the following options caught my eye:
Razer BlackWidow Tournament Edition (http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-keyboards-keypads/razer-blackwidow-tournament-edition)
Corsair k65 (http://www.corsair.com/us/gaming-peripherals/gaming-keyboards/vengeance-k65-compact-mechanical-gaming-keyboard.html)
Cooler Master Storm QuickFire Rapid (http://www.coolermaster-usa.com/product.php?product_id=3060)
The Razer uses blue Cherry MX switches and is relatively cheaper; the Corsair uses red switches and is new and more expensive; the CM price is in between these two and has versions with red/blue/black/brown/green switches.
I'm currently using a Cherry G81 at work and am very happy with its Cherry MY switches. I don't game with it though. Other than the aspect of switches (which I'm still researching), are there other differences to take into consideration?
Here's a picture of each keyboard (not from the exact same angle, so the CM looks larger).
(http://s10.postimg.org/d1rm8753t/tkl.jpg)
Thanks in advance!
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The new corsair boards look slick, the razer's are cheap and no me gusta, the QFR's you cannot go wrong with for a cheap TKL with any switch. My vote is for the CM QFR.
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Another QFR vote.
- Removable cable (I hate not being able to replace those if they break.)
- Lots of switch color options, but good luck finding a green right now. I wish they came in white, like my green but I want to try white.
- Feels pretty sturdy
- The Razr case looks gimmicky
- Corsair has non-standard (extra) buttons
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qfr
/thread
seriously though, the qfr has more of a switch selection, standard size keys, more modding support (alu cases, controllers, Stainless steel plates) and a very good build quality for the price.
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QFR. It's basically a Filco TKL for half the price. They come out of the same factory.
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QFR.
And no, it's not basically a Filco. Same factory =/= same thing. They are internally different (PCB is not the same, etc.) QFR is QFR, a good keyboard at that.
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QFR.
And no, it's not basically a Filco. Same factory =/= same thing. They are internally different (PCB is not the same, etc.) QFR is QFR, a good keyboard at that.
I said basically, not literally ;D. It is a darn good keyboard. I love mine.
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That's what it implies when you use those words. It spreads misinformation. Also a used Filco can be the same price as a brand new QFR--or even less depending on switches.
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I would think about the Logitech G13- Why those switches when you know mechanical switches?
Gaming with mechanical switches is more fun (my opinion)
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QFR it is. I was actually leaning toward it anyway because of the more standard spacing between the F-key row and the numbers row.
Thanks everyone! :)
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I would think about the Logitech G13- Why those switches when you know mechanical switches?
This is why:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2331781
Gaming with mechanical switches is more fun (my opinion)
I'm sure it is, but they don't make a mechanical G13 (yet).
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get a filco :)
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I would think about the Logitech G13- Why those switches when you know mechanical switches?
This is why:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2331781
Gaming with mechanical switches is more fun (my opinion)
I'm sure it is, but they don't make a mechanical G13 (yet).
Orbweaver is mechanical. Hear some decent things about it.
Can't say much about it, I don't use one since the keys directly above keys issue is gone with a matrix board like my edox. And i use frst (esdf on qwerty) since wasd is dumb anyway, try it out.
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get a filco :)
It's out of my budget, but I'd be interested to know what I'm missing compared to the QFR.
Orbweaver is mechanical. Hear some decent things about it.
The Orbweaver is out of my budget and I read too many bad user reviews about it in newegg and amazon. The G13 seems like a much safer bet, especially at half the price of the Orbweaver.
Can't say much about it, I don't use one since the keys directly above keys issue is gone with a matrix board like my edox. And i use frst (esdf on qwerty) since wasd is dumb anyway, try it out.
Not sure what a martix board is. Care to elaborate?
Thanks!
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$140 too much? T_T
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I must say I like Corsairs aluminium cases though generally Coolermaster is better in most other aspects. I would say either CM or Corsair wether you prefer an orthodox look or a sort of unorthodox one.
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Don't listen to those QFR people. Razer has to be doing something right to have such a huge reputation. IF you must go with MX switches (shudder...) instead of MY, then Razer is a top notch board.
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Don't listen to those QFR people. Razer has to be doing something right to have such a huge reputation. IF you must go with MX switches (shudder...) instead of MY, then Razer is a top notch board.
You know I tried the arrow pad of a razer ultimate at walmart one day and the key caps semed to be low profile (which I thought was really cool) and the blue switches had a different click sound than some other blue switch boards I have tried. It was a different experience.
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$140 too much? T_T
QFR + G13 = $150
Filco + Orbweaver = $270
I don't know about you, but to me this is a significant difference.
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Don't listen to those QFR people. Razer has to be doing something right to have such a huge reputation. IF you must go with MX switches (shudder...) instead of MY, then Razer is a top notch board.
You know I tried the arrow pad of a razer ultimate at walmart one day and the key caps semed to be low profile (which I thought was really cool) and the blue switches had a different click sound than some other blue switch boards I have tried. It was a different experience.
I had a Black Widow Ultimate for a year. The thing was decent, but the braided cabling began to tear and snap and the feet began to fall off after that year. Mind you this thing sat on a desk in my room for a year, wasn't a portable board by any means. The thing was a tank though, solid board, and it was nice. If I had to make the decision though, I'd spend the 130 on a better board.
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$140 too much? T_T
QFR + G13 = $150
Filco + Orbweaver = $270
I don't know about you, but to me this is a significant difference.
Something good + utter **** = $150
Something good + something decent = $270
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why do you need the game keypad? just use the filco for everything :D
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I would of bought that Corsair board in a hearth beat if the bottom modifiers + space bar weren't all messed up in size.
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I'd probably get the QFR, but the Corsair one just for that sexy alu plate :D
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i would never tell anyone to buy a corsair mechanical keyboard.
I would vote for the coolermaster if you want to use it for a while.
if you're just collecting or have multiple keyboards, I would get the razer. Tournament Edition looks clean.
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eBay has done wonders.
I got a Poker X and a Leopold fc660m for 100 each...
Invest in a little more cash for atleast a Leopold.
The QFR is pretty stable though...
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QFR
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I think that the QFR might be the best choice. It uses fairly standard keycap sizes, so getting replacements shouldn't be too hard.
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Oh and they have replacement tops for the QFR so that you can get a nice clean look with only like one branding on the side. Also with what everyone else said...QFR allows more customization with keycaps.
You also have more variation with keyswitch choices with the QFR including MX Green (which if you are ever looking at MX Blue switches...the green to me is a more satisfying click and less chance of bottoming out which is also very nice).
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I think that the QFR might be the best choice. It uses fairly standard keycap sizes, so getting replacements shouldn't be too hard.
You don't need to change the caps on the Razer. They're top quality. If you get a Razer, and do decide to swap the caps, PM me. I'll take those for my G81.
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$140 too much? T_T
QFR + G13 = $150
Filco + Orbweaver = $270
I don't know about you, but to me this is a significant difference.
Something good + utter **** = $150
Something good + something decent = $270
I received the QFR and the G13. I like them both, but my initial experience is the the G13 is the game changer (pun not intended). It's a great product that's built very well and obviously had a lot of thought invested into the design. The keys feel fine and are more suitable for gaming that the MX Blue switches of the QFR (which are otherwise great for typing).
If there's anything I should have spent more on it's not the game keypad, but the keyboard. I have an external numpad on the way which I hope would make the tenkeyless QFR easier to get used to, but so far I really miss the numpad. I was surprised to discover that I'm actually using it all the time, mainly for things like text zoom (Ctrl+Plus or Ctrl+Minus in most browsers) and auto-column width adjustment (Ctrl+NumPadPlus) in Windows Explorer Detail View and other application that show display tables. I'm also using the NumPad Enter in many cases. The lack of the NumPad also means that I have to adjust to a different "edge" of the keyboard, which makes accessing the arrow keys less natural. Not sure the external numpad would help with this issue, as I was planning to place it to the right of the mouse, rather than to the right of the keyboard.
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Yirg,
If you really want to stick to only these three keyboards, id say go with QFR.
I had corsair K90, which is mostly the same but not TKL and with Macro keys. Board in titanium is slick, backlight is slick, it looks incredible until you feel how cheap it is. Built quality really isn't there, i'm glad i managed to sell it before it broke.
Second, Razer are good in Mouse and gaming surface. Their keyboards/headset are way too expensive for the hardware you get in my opinion. Don't get that keyboard.
Last thing, i tried the G13 and owned a Nostromo, and i'd say if you really want a cool gaming keypad go with the Nostromo. It's decent hardware for 70$, i used it for more than 1000h+ on multiple games, never let me down. Used about a year and a half, no scratches, still responsive. Multiple Profiles is a blessing since you'll use it with many games. G13 is very old hardware... i wouldn't get that in 2013.
Against the Orbweaver, i believe a gaming Keypad doesn't have to be mechanical. It won't really worn out since you are not typing with it. Plug the Orbweaver looks ****ing retarded imo.
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Hi Quardah,
If you check the post above yours you'll see that I already bought the QFR and the G13, as well as my initial impression from each.
As for the Nostromo and Orbweaver, the former is not suitable for me because I have very large hands, and the latter is not suitable because it's out of my budget. Luckily, I'm very happy with the G13, so no issue.
Thanks!
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$140 too much? T_T
QFR + G13 = $150
Filco + Orbweaver = $270
I don't know about you, but to me this is a significant difference.
Something good + utter **** = $150
Something good + something decent = $270
I received the QFR and the G13. I like them both, but my initial experience is the the G13 is the game changer (pun not intended). It's a great product that's built very well and obviously had a lot of thought invested into the design. The keys feel fine and are more suitable for gaming that the MX Blue switches of the QFR (which are otherwise great for typing).
If there's anything I should have spent more on it's not the game keypad, but the keyboard. I have an external numpad on the way which I hope would make the tenkeyless QFR easier to get used to, but so far I really miss the numpad. I was surprised to discover that I'm actually using it all the time, mainly for things like text zoom (Ctrl+Plus or Ctrl+Minus in most browsers) and auto-column width adjustment (Ctrl+NumPadPlus) in Windows Explorer Detail View and other application that show display tables. I'm also using the NumPad Enter in many cases. The lack of the NumPad also means that I have to adjust to a different "edge" of the keyboard, which makes accessing the arrow keys less natural. Not sure the external numpad would help with this issue, as I was planning to place it to the right of the mouse, rather than to the right of the keyboard.
It sounds like you should have just stuck with a Tenkey version like the QuickFire Ultimate (new) or QuickFire Pro or XT. I guess there might be better options for boards with TK. I just bought a Ducky Shine III, and it looks cool but it's pretty expensive. The other board I was looking at was the Corsair K70 with MX Blue but they aren't out yet. They're also on the expensive side. Really, the QuickFire line of keyboards are the best bang for your buck, imo.
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$140 too much? T_T
QFR + G13 = $150
Filco + Orbweaver = $270
I don't know about you, but to me this is a significant difference.
Something good + utter **** = $150
Something good + something decent = $270
I received the QFR and the G13. I like them both, but my initial experience is the the G13 is the game changer (pun not intended). It's a great product that's built very well and obviously had a lot of thought invested into the design. The keys feel fine and are more suitable for gaming that the MX Blue switches of the QFR (which are otherwise great for typing).
If there's anything I should have spent more on it's not the game keypad, but the keyboard. I have an external numpad on the way which I hope would make the tenkeyless QFR easier to get used to, but so far I really miss the numpad. I was surprised to discover that I'm actually using it all the time, mainly for things like text zoom (Ctrl+Plus or Ctrl+Minus in most browsers) and auto-column width adjustment (Ctrl+NumPadPlus) in Windows Explorer Detail View and other application that show display tables. I'm also using the NumPad Enter in many cases. The lack of the NumPad also means that I have to adjust to a different "edge" of the keyboard, which makes accessing the arrow keys less natural. Not sure the external numpad would help with this issue, as I was planning to place it to the right of the mouse, rather than to the right of the keyboard.
It sounds like you should have just stuck with a Tenkey version like the QuickFire Ultimate (new) or QuickFire Pro or XT. I guess there might be better options for boards with TK. I just bought a Ducky Shine III, and it looks cool but it's pretty expensive. The other board I was looking at was the Corsair K70 with MX Blue but they aren't out yet. They're also on the expensive side. Really, the QuickFire line of keyboards are the best bang for your buck, imo.
^^ This.
^^^^^^^^^^^Fukkin' Thid.
Oh and yeah, i feel your pain with the arrow key. It really feels unnatural to use them at first on a tenkeyless, even worst on a 60% (Poker II for example lol).
And for the zoom in zoom out trick, CTRL + Mouse Wheel does the trick too, considering you are either on Windows or osX
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$140 too much? T_T
QFR + G13 = $150
Filco + Orbweaver = $270
I don't know about you, but to me this is a significant difference.
Something good + utter **** = $150
Something good + something decent = $270
Got the QFR (Blue MX) and the G13, and after three weeks of use I have to say that I love the G13 and it's almost all I had hoped for (save for nitpicks), but I'm very disappointed with the QFR (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46056.msg1016673#msg1016673). So much for what's good and what isn't...
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QFR FTW.
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Another QFR vote. I made the mistake of going Razer at first, and I have regretted it ever since.
The biggest boon about QFR is the customization. Any acrylic case, UTKL plate, or phantom plate will work with this keyboard. You have all the options in the world.
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The problem I have is not with the QFR itself (the design, build and layout are fine) but more with with the MX Blue version of it.
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Don't listen to those QFR people. Razer has to be doing something right to have such a huge reputation. IF you must go with MX switches (shudder...) instead of MY, then Razer is a top notch board.
I love razer hardware, but have never liked any of their software. Don't even both with their Synapse program. If you're on geekhack, that's probably preaching to the choir, but figured I'd throw it out there.
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CM QF, either Rapid or Stealth, with blues or greens. I have the Stealth with Greens, and it is one of the most solid boards I have ever used.
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I have the Razer TKL, and I like it. I don't love it as I know there are much better boards out there, but for the price, it at least saved me from rubber domes. I've been using it for a while and it's built like a tank.
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I have the Razer TKL, and I like it. I don't love it as I know there are much better boards out there, but for the price, it at least saved me from rubber domes. I've been using it for a while and it's built like a tank.
Son, you might think you like it. Once you put your hands on a real board there is no going back.
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I know, I know. A friend of mine has a Filco and the difference is night and day. But still, it saved me from rubber domes. Unfortunately where I live, I don't have a lot of options for mechanical keyboards. I will be getting a Filco and a Poker II in the near future, though.
As for the "son" comment, heh, I'm 33. But all is well ;)
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I know, I know. A friend of mine has a Filco and the difference is night and day. But still, it saved me from rubber domes. Unfortunately where I live, I don't have a lot of options for mechanical keyboards. I will be getting a Filco and a Poker II in the near future, though.
As for the "son" comment, heh, I'm 33. But all is well ;)
The son is just a joke I enjoy doing :D. I'm 16...
I own a poker II and it's great for traveling. Filco is a great brand aswell. I'm sure you will love the boards.
Some time ago I used a Razer board aswell, fortunately I got some new ones.
What switches are you getting?
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Yeah, I don't think it was a terrible starting point. But I'll be taking care of the problem soon ;)
I plan on getting a Filco TKL with Blues, and for the Poker II I will probably get Reds or Browns. I plan on replacing the keycaps on both, especially on the Poker.
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Yeah, I don't think it was a terrible starting point. But I'll be taking care of the problem soon ;)
I plan on getting a Filco TKL with Blues, and for the Poker II I will probably get Reds or Browns. I plan on replacing the keycaps on both, especially on the Poker.
Got my poker caps in the mail right now.
Unless you are looking to game on the poker don't get reds. That's just my opinion, but reds aren't great for typing. Blues and browns are great switches IMO.
GL
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Would love to see your Poker once you have the new caps in.
And yeah, I'm leaning more towards Brown.
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Would love to see your Poker once you have the new caps in.
And yeah, I'm leaning more towards Brown.
Sounds good!
I'll sent you some pics of it once I get them.
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I've been reading a lot about people not liking the mx blues on the QFR. Is there something wrong with them? its been making me second guess myself on getting the blues and consider getting the greens instead even though they are much more expensive.
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I've been reading a lot about people not liking the mx blues on the QFR. Is there something wrong with them? its been making me second guess myself on getting the blues and consider getting the greens instead even though they are much more expensive.
A while back there were quite a few who had non-clicking blues and greens. Not limited to QFR as it also happened on the Ducky's.
Taiwanese QC FTL.
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I've been reading a lot about people not liking the mx blues on the QFR. Is there something wrong with them? its been making me second guess myself on getting the blues and consider getting the greens instead even though they are much more expensive.
Haven't tried blues on the QFR (or QFS), but the greens feel amazing. I have blues on my Filco MJ2 Ninja TKL, and I like the greens on the QFS better. However, they are rather heavy at an actuation force of 80 cN compared to 50 cN for blues, and I think they could be fatiguing for long typing sessions. I've come to the conclusion that the ideal Cherry switch for typing might be around 60 cN. This is the actuation force for Matias switches and the lower range for IBM buckling springs (60 - 80 cN). I much prefer typing on my IBM SSK than anything else I've tried. However, you cannot go solely on the basis of published actuation force values. Each board has its own characteristics. For example, I enjoy typing on a relatively cheap Keycool 84 with blues; I like the overall typing feel and sound, despite the fact that by some criteria this board would not get the quality rating ascribed to boards made by Filco, Leopold, and CM.
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@dante
Are they still having the clicking issue?
@rjrich
I'm not to sure id worry to much about the fatigue. I've been typing on a buckling springs board for almost a year now and I'm so use to it i don't even notice it anymore. I've brought pairs of blue alps on a Leading edge 2014 down to its knees at this point I have the board laying around waiting for me to get donor switches still because I loved it so much. I have lead fingers :p
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@dante
Are they still having the clicking issue?
@rjrich
I'm not to sure id worry to much about the fatigue. I've been typing on a buckling springs board for almost a year now and I'm so use to it i don't even notice it anymore. I've brought pairs of blue alps on a Leading edge 2014 down to its knees at this point I have the board laying around waiting for me to get donor switches still because I loved it so much. I have lead fingers :p
Oddly enough, although I've been using a Model M or an SSK for many years and do not find them fatiguing at all, I found the CM QFS with greens to be fatiguing. This could be because it is estimated that the actuation and bottom-out forces for the IBM are around 70 and 80 cN, whereas these forces for Cherry greens are 80 and 105 cN. My normal typing style is to bottom out on every keystroke, and this apparently requires more force with Cherry greens than with IBM buckling springs.
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@dante
Are they still having the clicking issue?
Uncertain and I heaven't heard of any more complaints lately. If you end up with a sour switch I'm sure they would warranty it.
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@rjrich @dante
Thanks ill be sure to keep those things in mind~
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I started out with a QFR with blues, and I sold it and got a Filco with browns used here on the classifieds. I love both of them, and I really miss the QFR. I can't put my finger on why - maybe just sentimentality as it was my first mechanical. I have since bought a Topre Realforce 87U 55g and a HHKB Pro 2 and I'm head over heels for Topre. They just feel amazing.
That being said - I definitely recommend QFR with whatever switch you prefer. It won't be your last mech board that's for sure.
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Forget about TKL.
Get Poker II.
Never look back.
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The new corsair boards look slick, the razer's are cheap and no me gusta, the QFR's you cannot go wrong with for a cheap TKL with any switch. My vote is for the CM QFR.
This ^ The QFR has to be the most cost efficient board you can buy.
I picked up a QFR when it was $35 at CanadaComputers. You can't go wrong with one considering the pricetag. They have even been compared to Filco and sport costar stabilizers.
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go big, go filco :)