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geekhack Community => Other Geeky Stuff => Topic started by: Quardah on Wed, 24 July 2013, 06:49:15
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Hello world.
I am looking to learn a little more on Sun Microsystems / Sun OS. It really does interest me; it looks like it's the most stable/secure operating system you can have, and it looks so old it's OG.
Plus i would like to find a machine exploiting a Sun Micro-Processor, since it's pretty ****in' badass. I have experience in Linux and i've heard Sun would be the Nirvana of Linux.
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SunOS is UNIX, no? For one thing, a large science place I work at has almost finished switching from UNIX and Sun / Solaris machines to Linux installed on regular Dells and Such. also Apple computers for some, to be used with VPN for the terminal window functionality. After decades of UNIX being used exclusively.
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Unless you're boning up for a certification or exam, I think you'd get 90% of what you're looking for programming in Linux. Anything that's an official brand of UNIX will have hefty licensing costs, for one thing.
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Yes, that is a major reason for the switch.
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If that's the reason just run OpenSolaris in a VM. The Sparc architecture does not provide all that much to the OS to make a difference in learning.
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The use Solaris today are pretty much:
1 - It's a real UNIX (what will always be more stable than a Linux)
2 - Crossbow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenSolaris_Network_Virtualization_and_Resource_Control) but that's pretty much only useful for virtualization
3 - ZFS (but you get a pretty decent ports in FreeBSD) - IMO best file system ever.
4 - Dtrace (you also get on BSD's and Linux) - godlike tool
I still have a deployment of Solaris based systems but it's SmartOS (http://smartos.org/) that is pretty much the best virtualization platform available, but I wouldn't really use it for a Guest system.
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Quardah, if you would like to learn more about Solaris spin up a machine running SmartOS on Joyent (http://www.joyent.com). You get a free machine for the first 2 months. That should be a good introduction to using the OS.
bigx333 has pretty much summed it up. I'd also like to add that Solaris has Zones, which are like Linux Containers (LXC). All these features make for a very good host hypervisor operating system. I'm not convinced it is a good system to sell to customers, and I work for the company.
I agree with Alaricljs that x86 vs sparc is not going to make a difference for your learning.
Also, checkout Illumos it's a community fork of OpenSolaris. (http://wiki.illumos.org/display/illumos/illumos+Home)
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Oh wow people you were fast!
I'll check everything after the job and i'll give you an update about it.
Thanks you all that's really valuable infos.
Have a good rest of day people ;)
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Remember when Sun put out that video for that crazy 3D OS they were working on for consumers... man, those were the days
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Is this still being developed? Or was it just OpenSolaris that was cancelled?
I have used it, but unless you are going to specialise in it, I found it too different to other Unices for my liking. Devices are named differently. Commands have different options. Files are in different places. Installation was a bit obfuscated (granted this was on an old Sun rack-mount server).
Documentation is (was) good though.
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3 - ZFS (but you get a pretty decent ports in FreeBSD) - IMO best file system ever.
Just FYI- ZFS can be had on 'normal' linux too. Have been using it on my home server (Ubunut 12.04 LTS) for about a year now. Faultless. Works fine with Samba too.
http://zfsonlinux.org/
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But zfs on linux is backdated... FS rev 5, and pool rev, wtf? 5000? So now they are making their own **** up and you can't compare it to mainline... yay.
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Didn't even know Solaris was still around. Apparently Oracle is going "cloud" with it. It was a great platform back in the day, not sure about it now though. Hardware is too expensive, that's for sure. Last time I touched Solaris was back when Solaris 10 was just released. I was pretty locked into RHEL at the time so I didn't pay it much attention. Good to see that it's not dead yet.
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OpenSolaris has been dead for a while now, it lives on through OpenIndiana (Illumos). If you are interested in a Sun OS to tinker with, and don't need Oracle Solaris, I would try that one OP.
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3 - ZFS (but you get a pretty decent ports in FreeBSD) - IMO best file system ever.
Just FYI- ZFS can be had on 'normal' linux too. Have been using it on my home server (Ubunut 12.04 LTS) for about a year now. Faultless. Works fine with Samba too.
http://zfsonlinux.org/
I'm aware of the port, actually exactly because I'm aware of the state of the port I wouldn't use it in my systems even if someone point a gun at my head.
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I use it on FreeBSD, it's pretty legit.
What's so terrible about the Linux version? Performance?
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ZFS on linux is a bit like btrfl and playing the Russian roulette except instead of spinning the gun barrel you're rebooting your system and hoping everything is OK once the kernel is loaded.
But seriously grab freeBSD if you want to try unix My server uptime is just over 432 days, no probs. I love freeBSD, it's just not my cup of tea on anything but a server. In fact it is the reason I use Gentoo as portage is very similar to ports.
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Hello world.
I am looking to learn a little more on Sun Microsystems / Sun OS. It really does interest me; it looks like it's the most stable/secure operating system you can have, and it looks so old it's OG.
Plus i would like to find a machine exploiting a Sun Micro-Processor, since it's pretty ****in' badass. I have experience in Linux and i've heard Sun would be the Nirvana of Linux.
I'm pretty sure all of the current Sun servers are x64, at least the ones I have are. As for the OS you can try SCO OpenServer UNIX. HP still does some AIX UNIX development. I have clients that still use both of these platforms. So, if you plan on actually maintaining any of these systems then you should try to get a copy and install it in a VM. Forget the hardware - you don't need it.
http://www.xinuos.com/
If you're just curious follow the advice others have given you. Start out with Linux or FreeBSD (a true UNIX fork.)
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HP still does some AIX UNIX development.
AIX is IBM. HP is HP-UX. If you want to run either of those platforms you have to have hardware that can run it. Currently for IBM AIX that is Power series architecture and for HP it's PA-RISC or IA-64 (not to be confused with x86_64, this is Itanium). The only "UNIX" you can run on x86 hardware are Solaris x86 (not even sure if they still have a port, probably just OpenIndiana), and the BSDs (Open, Free, Net, etc).
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I use it on FreeBSD, it's pretty legit.
What's so terrible about the Linux version? Performance?
The FreeBSD port is pretty good, the linux one in the other hand is extremely unreliable and bad ported.
ZFS on linux is a bit like btrfl and playing the Russian roulette except instead of spinning the gun barrel you're rebooting your system and hoping everything is OK once the kernel is loaded.
But seriously grab freeBSD if you want to try unix My server uptime is just over 432 days, no probs. I love freeBSD, it's just not my cup of tea on anything but a server. In fact it is the reason I use Gentoo as portage is very similar to ports.
FreeBSD used to be my favorite OS but right now I don't really see much of a point on using it, if I want a file server I would use Illumos, if I want a Firewall I would use OpenBSD, if I want a telecom server I would use Debian.
In the end of the day I end up only using FreeBSD for web servers and mail servers and even that... It's kinda of a way to take longer to the same as I would with a Debian (while I do agree that it's more stable).
Gentoo's portage is a failed attempt to copy ports IMO.
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HP still does some AIX UNIX development.
AIX is IBM. HP is HP-UX. If you want to run either of those platforms you have to have hardware that can run it. Currently for IBM AIX that is Power series architecture and for HP it's PA-RISC or IA-64 (not to be confused with x86_64, this is Itanium).
AIX is IBM. I got that one mixed up with UX (it's all the same to me,I can't remember which client has which), but I was suggesting that if he wanted to run a "real" version of UNIX that he try SCO UNIX.
The only "UNIX" you can run on x86 hardware are Solaris x86 (not even sure if they still have a port, probably just OpenIndiana), and the BSDs (Open, Free, Net, etc).
It runs on regular x86 hardware and can easily be virtualized in VMware. I keep a copy of SCO OpenServer 6 UNIX running for reference since one of my clients still uses it.
Nobody ever follows the links :rolleyes: http://www.xinuos.com/
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Gentoo's portage is a failed attempt to copy ports IMO.
It's no ports I agree, but IMO it does a hell of a good job. I really like the portage concept of hardmasked, masked unstable/testing (~arch) and stable (arch). The use flags are awesome allowing fine grained control over what is built and linked.
You are entitled to your opinion but I have to strongly disagree with 'failed attempt. Portage is not supposed to be a copy of ports, it has its own quirks.
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AIX is IBM. I got that one mixed up with UX (it's all the same to me,I can't remember which client has which), but I was suggesting that if he wanted to run a "real" version of UNIX that he try SCO UNIX.
It runs on regular x86 hardware and can easily be virtualized in VMware. I keep a copy of SCO OpenServer 6 UNIX running for reference since one of my clients still uses it.
Nobody ever follows the links :rolleyes: http://www.xinuos.com/
What does a license of this OS cost? It doesn't look like there's a free option. I would like to check it out. I've never used SCO before.
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The original SCO Group went out of business and the rights to the OS has changed hands a few times. I got my copy from the previous owners and all I had to do was sign up for and account and then download a copy. You can still use it without a paid license but you obviously don't get any support.
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I forgot to add that Solaris is still active and I think up to release number 11. I have 3 SunFire x4200s and they have AMD processors (I actually run FreeBSD on 2 and Debian on the other.)
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The original SCO Group went out of business and the rights to the OS has changed hands a few times. I got my copy from the previous owners and all I had to do was sign up for and account and then download a copy. You can still use it without a paid license but you obviously don't get any support.
Good god almighty, don't go near SCO. Opensewer is what it was known as when I was using it. Solaris might have been known as "slowarse", but at least it works and is supported. The only support you'll get for OpenServer nowadays is from comp.unix.sco.misc, and the best advice you'll get from *there* is "use something else".
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Lol anyway if i put my hands on one of these device i wouldn't pay a license i would simply hack it since i am not using support.
Hell i've never been using any operating system support therefore i simply never paid for any. I've learned across the years that no one gives a crap about helping you and no one understands your ****ty problems even if they are paid to do so, hence research your stuff yourself and instead of asking somebody try getting better at understanding your systems. He who fixes his own **** will get better eventually, in opposition to the one that is a lazy ass that only wants given answers without knowing what he does.
Except for hardware warranties i never talk to any companies. **** them, **** their ****ty support and **** paying for their ****ing software ****. The only thing i ask is that they change the device they sold me if it really has hardware failure. Anything else, don't bother contact me.
Lol.
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For the most part, something such as FreeBSD on a plain PC will be a good enough learning tool for Unix, it's not a "real" unix, but it's good enough for most things.
I personally own a real Sparc-based system. Sunfire V4800, complete with it's Quad 1.2 GHz Ultrasparc III processors, 16 gigs of ram and dual 36 gig FC-AL hard drives. Here's the thing though, it's heavy, it's loud and uses more power than my 1998 laser printer.
My personal advice is to find a Sparc workstation if you want a real Sparc setup. Modern "Sunfires" are just plain PCs, the Sunfire X4800s I have are just your average run of the mill Dual Opteron systems.
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Here's the thing though, it's heavy, it's loud and uses more power than my 1998 laser printer.
This. I have a Sun T1 AC200 (U1 Rackmount). It's great, totally solid, but it has to live in the basement because it sounds like a jet engine spooling up. Permanently.
It runs FreeBSD :)
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I have a Sun Fire V100, an AC200, two T105 and a DS130 (is it DS130? Been a while - that 1U rack mount case for 3 HDD).
Also one Qube 2 and three Raq 2.
All running a mixture of Solaris, FreeBSD, NetBSD and Debian.
And a pile of spare spud brackets!
Sun equipment was very nice back in the day.
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The original SCO Group went out of business and the rights to the OS has changed hands a few times. I got my copy from the previous owners and all I had to do was sign up for and account and then download a copy. You can still use it without a paid license but you obviously don't get any support.
Good god almighty, don't go near SCO. Opensewer is what it was known as when I was using it. Solaris might have been known as "slowarse", but at least it works and is supported. The only support you'll get for OpenServer nowadays is from comp.unix.sco.misc, and the best advice you'll get from *there* is "use something else".
The OP wanted to try a real version of UNIX and I gave him an option that he could try for free. No need for bashing (just like every other *nix thread around here.) SCO is still out there and still needs support whether you like the OS or not.
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The OP wanted to try a real version of UNIX and I gave him an option that he could try for free. No need for bashing (just like every other *nix thread around here.) SCO is still out there and still needs support whether you like the OS or not.
SCO has done enough evil that it is hard to be sympathetic for them. Anyways, it's awesome to see how many old school *nix geeks are on here. :)
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The original SCO Group went out of business and the rights to the OS has changed hands a few times. I got my copy from the previous owners and all I had to do was sign up for and account and then download a copy. You can still use it without a paid license but you obviously don't get any support.
Good god almighty, don't go near SCO. Opensewer is what it was known as when I was using it. Solaris might have been known as "slowarse", but at least it works and is supported. The only support you'll get for OpenServer nowadays is from comp.unix.sco.misc, and the best advice you'll get from *there* is "use something else".
The OP wanted to try a real version of UNIX and I gave him an option that he could try for free. No need for bashing (just like every other *nix thread around here.) SCO is still out there and still needs support whether you like the OS or not.
Not bashing, as such. A lot of it depends on how much stock you set by it being "real Unix" - after all, if you want to go "real", you could always run "ancient Unix" on an emulator, or even on real hardware (http://www.nordier.com/v7x86/index.html). The point being that OpenServer is way, way out of date, and doesn't support much of what is now commodity hardware. I know; 10 years ago I had clients struggling to keep ageing boxes alive because OpenServer was stable on them (and really struggling - to the point of having motherboards re-capped, and hoarding stocks of "known good" PCI cards) rather than risking migrating to newer hardware.
Realistically, if you want a "modern", "real" Unix and don't have $$$ to spend, you either use OSX or one of the (sadly) now unsupported OpenSolaris distros. But that's probably not what the OP wanted (especially OSX, which, although a "real" Unix, doesn't always play nice with current *n*x tools). If you want a "modern" Unix and you don't care about the brand, you're as well off with FreeBSD as anything else.
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is this a troll thread are you serious
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The original SCO Group went out of business and the rights to the OS has changed hands a few times. I got my copy from the previous owners and all I had to do was sign up for and account and then download a copy. You can still use it without a paid license but you obviously don't get any support.
Good god almighty, don't go near SCO. Opensewer is what it was known as when I was using it. Solaris might have been known as "slowarse", but at least it works and is supported. The only support you'll get for OpenServer nowadays is from comp.unix.sco.misc, and the best advice you'll get from *there* is "use something else".
The OP wanted to try a real version of UNIX and I gave him an option that he could try for free. No need for bashing (just like every other *nix thread around here.) SCO is still out there and still needs support whether you like the OS or not.
Not bashing, as such. A lot of it depends on how much stock you set by it being "real Unix" - after all, if you want to go "real", you could always run "ancient Unix" on an emulator, or even on real hardware (http://www.nordier.com/v7x86/index.html). The point being that OpenServer is way, way out of date, and doesn't support much of what is now commodity hardware. I know; 10 years ago I had clients struggling to keep ageing boxes alive because OpenServer was stable on them (and really struggling - to the point of having motherboards re-capped, and hoarding stocks of "known good" PCI cards) rather than risking migrating to newer hardware.
Realistically, if you want a "modern", "real" Unix and don't have $$$ to spend, you either use OSX or one of the (sadly) now unsupported OpenSolaris distros. But that's probably not what the OP wanted (especially OSX, which, although a "real" Unix, doesn't always play nice with current *n*x tools). If you want a "modern" Unix and you don't care about the brand, you're as well off with FreeBSD as anything else.
While I pretty much agree with everything... OSX isn't any more "real unix" than FreeBSD, actually OS X is just darwin (essentially a FreeBSD Fork) with Aqua on top.