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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Bodibo on Wed, 15 October 2008, 05:05:02

Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: Bodibo on Wed, 15 October 2008, 05:05:02: I have recently got my hands on a Cherry ML4100, however, it is very dirty on the keys and in between the keys. What is the best way to clean the keyboard?

Thanks.
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: lowpoly on Wed, 15 October 2008, 13:32:12: Disassemble and put into the dishwasher.

I do not exceed 55° Celsius. Someone said to avoid the dry cycle but that seems to be no problem.

I do not put pcbs with mechanical switches in. Or the membrane/spring assembly of a Model M. The water would be trapped inside the switches and it would take forever to dry. If it doesn't dry in a day, I'm not interested.

I do put controller pcbs in sometimes. I check if there's space between the chips and the pcb so there's no water trap. I dry these by leaving them on a tube monitor for some time (make sure no water drips into the monitor!).

As I don't put the mechanical switch pcbs in, I use window cleaner and a brush to clean between the switches.

The keycaps go into the cutlery basket and the basket gets closed at the top so the caps stay there.

Only problem I ever had was a label that lost all its writing. That was one of these silver labels, they usually hold up.
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: Bodibo on Thu, 16 October 2008, 05:35:50: Dishwasher? I would have never have thought of that. Thanks, I'll try it.
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: bigpook on Thu, 16 October 2008, 07:17:07: I have used the dishwasher to clean my HHKB lite keyboard and a bunch of rubber dome keyboards with no problems.

I manually clean my BS keyboards with windex and a toothbrush. The keycaps and stems along with the top and bottom case can go in the dishwasher.

YMMV. If you do the above and destroy/damage your keyboard please don't blame me : )
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: lowpoly on Thu, 16 October 2008, 08:25:54: Quote
windex
Looks like the correct word is glass cleaner not window cleaner (referring to my last post).
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: iMav on Thu, 16 October 2008, 10:15:12: With my HHKB Pro, I disassemble it (including pulling all the key caps), set aside the electronics/springs/rubber domes, and soak the rest in soapy water. I do a light cleaning with a wash cloth and then dry and reassemble.
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: bigpook on Thu, 16 October 2008, 14:43:39: Quote from: lowpoly;9565
Looks like the correct word is glass cleaner not window cleaner (referring to my last post).

I also have used isopropyl alchohol which works very well to. There are
2 types available, I use the hi-test one.
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: sashomasho on Thu, 16 October 2008, 17:03:13: Quote from: bigpook;9572
I also have used isopropyl alchohol which works very well to. There are
2 types available, I use the hi-test one.

just finished cleaning one of my modelMs with alcohol. the key caps were studiously cleaned and after that soaked in hot soapy water. every key (both the key cap, and especially the stem) are well shaken because the water could stay there forever and leave me with rusty springs, now i've left all my keys on a towel and I do feel a little nervous with 4 mischievous cats walking around my parted keyboard... :)
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 17 October 2008, 08:27:15: My dad and I used to soak the entire kb (minus the electronics; these were Model Ms, but this would probably work for other kbs, too) in a bucket of Simple Green over night. That stuff would clean off even the stickiest of 'board chow. After I have a clean board, I also maintain the cleanliness with a can of compressed air and a feather duster. I might wipe it down occassionally with a Lysol wipe as well; however, I rarely, if ever, eat near my kb, I always wash my hands before using my kb again to avoid any of the oils/grease from the food I ate to get on it. I hate using other people's 'boards at work when there is that thick coating of oil and dust over all the keys. Ugh.
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: fastbuck on Tue, 23 February 2010, 11:22:42: I would not recommend using dishwasher for the whole keyboard - I had problems with rust caused by trapped water and also with plastic warping in the drying cycle.

On the other hand, dishwasher works fine for key caps, although I switched to ultrasonic cleaner, as it's faster and more effective. This is the model that I have:
(http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/95500-95599/95563.gif)
It usually takes one 8 minute cycle and a few drops of dish-washing liquid.

The case is easy enough to clean by hand with Windex or ammonia based spray cleaner.

For switches and pcb - I recently had good results using parts washer such as these:

(http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/07300-07399/07340.gif)

I have kerosene in mine, although Odorless Mineral Spirits would be preferable to avoid the smell. The problem is, it cost $10 a gallon, vs $3 for kerosene.

Parts washer method is safe for rubber and plastic and will not cause corrosion in metal parts. Best of all, kerosene is very effective at cutting grease and dirt. This past week I used this method to clean a keyboard with white Alps switches that were sticky inside, so I had problems with switches not clicking and sometimes detecting a double press. I soaked the assembly in kerosene for a couple hours then scrubbed it with nylon brush under a stream of cleaner, and finally blew all switches with compressed air. Now the switches are completely clean and clicky again!

The only problem with this method is that it will remove all traces of grease that's used on switch stems, and now have too much friction when it get's hit off-center.

Any recommendation on type of lubricant and method of application?????

I'm thinking - to try dry lube PTFE spray, such as this ($4.50 at Walmart):
(http://www.gunk.com/product_images/LG_L512.JPG)

And if that is not sufficient, manually apply silicone grease to just the stems
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: salcan on Tue, 23 February 2010, 11:43:05: What about for yellowed plastic? Same methods? I have some old cherry doubleshots that are super nice, but they are pretty yellowed. Been trying to figure out the best way to handle those.
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 23 February 2010, 11:49:59: Quote from: salcan;160130
What about for yellowed plastic?

Whitening toothpaste. Check it (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?p=67535&highlight=toothpaste).
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: Mental Hobbit on Tue, 23 February 2010, 11:57:53: Quote from: salcan;160130
What about for yellowed plastic?

RetrObright (http://retr0bright.wikispaces.com/). I've never seen yellowed Cherry doubleshots though, I was under the impression that type of plastic won't yellow at all.
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: salcan on Tue, 23 February 2010, 12:07:47: (http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8056&stc=1&d=1266948252)

So here you can see the yellowed cherries (from some old POS board). You can see how they are yellowed on the top but not on the sides if you look at the 3. For reference I have a white piece of paper and some prime condition doubleshots that you might be familiar with mental hobbit.

oh and thanks for the tips, I'll check those at!
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: microsoft windows on Tue, 23 February 2010, 12:30:29: All white plastic except Model M plastic, that is. I'll have to put my Model M to the test by taking it to the tanning salon someday.
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: zwmalone on Tue, 23 February 2010, 12:59:29: except that that's an external (optional?) housing on an M2.
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: Mental Hobbit on Tue, 23 February 2010, 13:17:00: Quote from: ripster;160150

Show Image
(http://www.clickykeyboard.com/_ebay/1391403/1391403-001.jpg)

I see Model Ms like that quite often: Yellow space bar, everything else white as a Swedish virgin's butt. That's why I'm pretty sure the case and keycap plastic used on Ms doesn't yellow at all.

I also understand it's not the plastic itself that yellows, it's some flame retardant mixed in. Doubt keys or keyboards without that would be highly flammable.
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: ch_123 on Tue, 23 February 2010, 13:24:44: Quote from: ripster;160146
It happens. Also with Model Ms.
Show Image
(http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/m2-compare-1.jpg)

We've been through that one before, right... cheap plastic border screwed onto rubber dome M2 != Model M.

I don't even think M2s are made of the stuff that Ms are. My M2 is made of PC.

Quote
I see Model Ms like that quite often: Yellow space bar, everything else white as a Swedish virgin's butt. That's why I'm pretty sure the case and keycap plastic used on Ms doesn't yellow at all.

It seems to afflict lots of different keyboard types. Alps-made ones in particular (oldschool AT-101s/AEKs/etc) have a pretty nasty problem with it.
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: didjamatic on Tue, 23 February 2010, 13:36:46: Quote from: ripster;160159
Seems to impact Ebay Model Ms the most.

Show Image
(http://i.ebayimg.com/03/!Bmlj(6w!2k~$(KGrHqIOKkYEtkg-Lf3YBLgIzP10B!~~_12.JPG)

That's the spacesaver I'm selling and I don't believe it's yellow in person at all. I'd have to go look again, but all of my photos I took on my stairs have a yellowish tint to them, I guess I need better lighting.
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: salcan on Tue, 23 February 2010, 13:50:32: Quote from: ripster;160161
Just trolling.

Slow day. Avoiding doing my taxes.

I lol'd when I saw didja's pic up there
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: keyb_gr on Tue, 23 February 2010, 16:40:57: Quote from: didjamatic;160160
That's the spacesaver I'm selling and I don't believe it's yellow in person at all. I'd have to go look again, but all of my photos I took on my stairs have a yellowish tint to them, I guess I need better lighting.

Either that, or more accurate white balance. Might be helpful to have some white paper handy for manual white balance (my Oly has a neat "1-click white balance" feature, for example - point it to a "white" object, shoot, et voilà, a white balance setting), alternatively shoot raw with a grey card or similar.
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: fastbuck on Tue, 23 February 2010, 18:00:07: I went ahead with Gunk Dry Film PTFE Lubricant on my alps board - pulled the key caps off and lightly sprayed the board with lube. Light coat did not seem to do much. Tried applying a few heavy coats and it helped a bit with stem stickiness.

So, all in all, Dry Film is is not supper effective for reducing plastic on plastic friction, but it was sufficient to solve the problem in my case, and the film is dry, so should not collect dirt or hurt plastic.

Based on that, I'd recommend Dry Film as the first thing to try to reduce key binding, and if that does not help, follow by silicone spray. Silicone spray would be much more effective, but it collects dirt, so it's best to avoid it if possible.

----
Update:
After typing on the keyboard for a half hour I noticed that dry film lube pretty much worn out from sliding parts. On the other hand it's causing problem with some switches, that now fail to register, so I have to press them a few times to get a letter out. So I'll go ahead and change my recommendation, and say that this product is worse than useless. Hopefully switches will clear out after a while, otherwise I'll have to wash them again, ahh, this is getting frustrating
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: firestorm on Tue, 23 February 2010, 18:49:13: I have some "Precision Lube" from Radio Shack that supposedly doesn't attract or hold dirt/dust. I've never tried it on a keyboard, but it works well on fans (e.g. CPU, PSU, etc...)

Otherwise, I've had good luck using graphite, although it is somewhat toxic, it should be safe if kept inside the keyboard. I usually just grind up from pencil "lead" and use that in keyboards, for what graphite content is there. That's my quick IT fix for sticky key complaints.
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: Mental Hobbit on Tue, 23 February 2010, 19:25:37: Quote from: ripster;160155
I've never seen a Swedish virgin's butt in real life.

Looks like the back of a Model M. Just a bit more hairy.

Quote from: firestorm;160295
Otherwise, I've had good luck using graphite, although it is somewhat toxic, it should be safe if kept inside the keyboard.

Didn't know graphite is toxic, also couldn't find anything on toxicity in a quick search. I suppose snorting it wouldn't be exactly healthy, but the same goes for about any kind of dust. Am I missing something?
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: fastbuck on Tue, 23 February 2010, 19:29:08: Quote from: firestorm;160295
I have some "Precision Lube" from Radio Shack that supposedly doesn't attract or hold dirt/dust. I've never tried it on a keyboard, but it works well on fans (e.g. CPU, PSU, etc...)

Otherwise, I've had good luck using graphite, although it is somewhat toxic, it should be safe if kept inside the keyboard. I usually just grind up from pencil "lead" and use that in keyboards, for what graphite content is there. That's my quick IT fix for sticky key complaints.

"Precision Lube" sounds similar to the dry film stuff that I used. It's now causing major problems with keys failing to register and also was not super effective as a lubricant.

I have graphite lube ... gonna think if I want to do any more experimenting....
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: Rajagra on Tue, 23 February 2010, 19:53:00: Quote from: Mental Hobbit;160298
Looks like the back of a Model M. Just a bit more hairy.

That may explain why their honour is still intact.
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: ak_nala on Thu, 25 February 2010, 19:15:59: Not sure graphite would be a really good idea inside key-switches as it is nominally conductive.

On the plus side, at least you wouldn't have the problem of keys failing to register - on the down side, you could get the opposite problem if you use too much and/or it gets in the wrong places.
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: firestorm on Thu, 25 February 2010, 19:51:23: Quote from: Mental Hobbit;160298
Didn't know graphite is toxic, also couldn't find anything on toxicity in a quick search. I suppose snorting it wouldn't be exactly healthy, but the same goes for about any kind of dust. Am I missing something?

I guess I should've searched myself... I don't know how I got that notion in my head, but it was around the time I was playing with pine wood derby cars as a kid. Maybe I crossed references concerning the lead weights - I dunno. At any rate, I didn't mean to infer that it was dangerous like Mercury, but more along the lines of something you shouldn't ingest. I mean, even wood dust is considered a carcinogen.
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: microsoft windows on Thu, 25 February 2010, 20:01:36: Don't eat your pencils.
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: firestorm on Thu, 25 February 2010, 20:15:14: Quote from: fastbuck;160299
"Precision Lube" sounds similar to the dry film stuff that I used. It's now causing major problems with keys failing to register and also was not super effective as a lubricant.

Does it go on wet?

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102643

Quote
It is quite useful with electronics, electric motors marine equipment and more.

Like I said, I've never used it on keyboards, but I have used it on switches in game controllers... For my old ColecoVision to be exact.
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: firestorm on Thu, 25 February 2010, 20:17:40: Quote from: ak_nala;160747
Not sure graphite would be a really good idea inside key-switches as it is nominally conductive.

I guess I hadn't considered the fact that all the boards I used that remedy on were membrane boards where that wouldn't be a problem. Mechanical switches didn't even enter my mind.
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: fastbuck on Fri, 26 February 2010, 08:49:04: Quote from: firestorm;160767
Does it go on wet?

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102643

Like I said, I've never used it on keyboards, but I have used it on switches in game controllers... For my old ColecoVision to be exact.

The stuff in the link is oil based, not dry film. Look at MSDS - 90% hydrocarbon, with a couple % PTFE and some other stuff. Oil attacks some plastics causing them to weaken, swell and crack. That's why stuff like Vaseline and other petroleum based greases are not recommended for general use on plastic.

The PTFE dry film spray I used had LPG carrier that evaporated within seconds. Advantage of dry film is that it would not attract dirt. The problem was, that it was not effective, at least for plastic to plastic, and also caused problem with contacts in some switches - Alps switches seem to be hyper sensitive to contamination, so that problem is not specific to just dry-film lube.

As far as graphite - I used it before, and it was not very effective, although it was not in keyboard application. I now think it's the general issue with dry lubricants - they are not effective.

I'll probably try silicone grease next. While it will attract and retain dirt, at least it should not harm plastic.

Or may be somebody knows a source in U.S. for that RO-59 lubricant coating that Sandy55 was recommending?
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: Mental Hobbit on Fri, 26 February 2010, 09:03:56: I'd try pure dry graphite dust, without any carrier liquid. On Alps switches, you could even try to pencil a stem and see if it works.
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: TexasFlood on Fri, 26 February 2010, 09:18:21: A while back I was looking for some contact cleaner & lubricant for a variety of uses, at the time it was specifically trying to try and revive the timer in my clothes washer & get a bit more life out of it. Did a bit of googling and as advised to steer clear of the Radio Shack stuff as it apparently had a significant quantity of mineral oil in it and wasn't considered plastic safe. Based on some recommendations I headed out to look for CRC 2-26 at Home Depot or Lowes. I ended up getting something form CRC but I think it was a newer product not the 2-26 stuff. Not sure where it is right now, but will post some details if I run across it. Wonder if that might work for keyboards as well?
Title: Best way to clean a keyboard?
Post by: fastbuck on Fri, 26 February 2010, 09:19:13: Quote from: Mental Hobbit;160854
I'd try pure dry graphite dust, without any carrier liquid. On Alps switches, you could even try to pencil a stem and see if it works.

From my prior experience with graphite, I just don't see it staying put on sliding surfaces for any length of time. Instead I envision it falling down inside the switch and causing problems down the road. That's why I'm reluctant to try it.