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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Alps on Wed, 24 July 2013, 11:14:57
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Greetings.
I currently own an Apple Extended II with cream Alps. I am very happy with this keyboard and like the feeling of it. My fingers do not tire when typing on this keyboard.
I am looking for a new keyboard to buy...just because I want to. ;D I'd prefer not to spend too much though. Used would be fine. I'm also keeping an eye out for the Cherry keyboards. (with the shell, etc...made by Cherry)
My question: Would Cherry MX Clear be somewhat similar to my cream Alps?
In a store, I tried Blues and Browns. I immediately noticed how much lighter they are than my cream Alps. The Browns almost felt linear. The Blues had nice tactility, but I didn't like the high-pitched clicky noise and they, too, were a bit light.
Would the Clears be more to my liking? Please note that I DO bottom out my cream Alps. I suspect I would also (try to) bottom out other switches.
One concern I have: I have a G81-3000 MY-switch keyboard and hate it. Those MY-switches make my fingers tire. According to the force diagram, they (MY) bottom out at 120g. That is too much. My cream ALPS bottom out at 80g. That's just fine. The MX Clear bottoms out at 100g. Will this be too tiring for me? Or will I be fine?
Tl;dr:
- Cream Alps bottom out at 80g and I love them.
- Cherry MY bottom out at 120g and I hate them (too tiring for typing!).
- Cherry MX Clear bottom out at 100g. Are they closer to the Alps or to the MY switches? Will I like them?
PS: I'm not willing to start modifying switches.
Any feedback or recommendations would be much appreciated. :)
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Greetings.
I currently own an Apple Extended II with cream Alps. I am very happy with this keyboard and like the feeling of it. My fingers do not tire when typing on this keyboard.
I am looking for a new keyboard to buy...just because I want to. ;D I'd prefer not to spend too much though. Used would be fine. I'm also keeping an eye out for the Cherry keyboards. (with the shell, etc...made by Cherry)
My question: Would Cherry MX Clear be somewhat similar to my cream Alps?
In a store, I tried Blues and Browns. I immediately noticed how much lighter they are than my cream Alps. The Browns almost felt linear. The Blues had nice tactility, but I didn't like the high-pitched clicky noise and they, too, were a bit light.
Would the Clears be more to my liking? Please note that I DO bottom out my cream Alps. I suspect I would also (try to) bottom out other switches.
One concern I have: I have a G81-3000 MY-switch keyboard and hate it. Those MY-switches make my fingers tire. According to the force diagram, they (MY) bottom out at 120g. That is too much. My cream ALPS bottom out at 80g. That's just fine. The MX Clear bottoms out at 100g. Will this be too tiring for me? Or will I be fine?
Tl;dr:
- Cream Alps bottom out at 80g and I love them.
- Cherry MY bottom out at 120g and I hate them (too tiring for typing!).
- Cherry MX Clear bottom out at 100g. Are they closer to the Alps or to the MY switches? Will I like them?
PS: I'm not willing to start modifying switches.
Any feedback or recommendations would be much appreciated. :)
Are cream alps dampened click? If so, go for MX whites, they're a heavier dampened click as well :)
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Are cream alps dampened click? If so, go for MX whites, they're a heavier dampened click as well :)
I believe they are, yes. But I don't know about the availability of those. I thought about the MX Clears because those can be bought new in keyboards from Cherry.
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Are cream alps dampened click? If so, go for MX whites, they're a heavier dampened click as well :)
I believe they are, yes. But I don't know about the availability of those. I thought about the MX Clears because those can be bought new in keyboards from Cherry.
Clears wont have a click at all, they're strictly tactile. You can buy boards with clears now, such as an FC660M as well as some others, and for whites you can get them on KBT Race's and Pure's I believe.
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Stock Clears are significantly heavier than Browns and Blues. I have not tried Cream Alps, but Clears might be heavier. There are a few keyboards available with Clears currently, including Ducky full-sized keyboards with thick dye sub PBT keycaps (a very good deal). Not sure about MX White keyboards though.
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Matias Quiet switches are clones (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Matias_Quiet_Pro#Quiet_Pro) of the Cream Alps in your board. Stock Clears are WAY heavier in actuation force versus these switches. I think a modded clear such as a 62g Clear might be closer to the Cream Alps. I can't comment on MYs since I hate those. Also the actuation on the Clears would be in the middle of the travel versus the top.
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Clears wont have a click at all, they're strictly tactile. You can buy boards with clears now, such as an FC660M as well as some others, and for whites you can get them on KBT Race's and Pure's I believe.
But that's good, for me. I didn't like the clicky sound of the Blues.
According to http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_CM (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_CM), the cream Alps I'm using right now aren't clicky. They're dampened tactile.
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Clears wont have a click at all, they're strictly tactile. You can buy boards with clears now, such as an FC660M as well as some others, and for whites you can get them on KBT Race's and Pure's I believe.
But that's good, for me. I didn't like the clicky sound of the Blues.
According to http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_CM (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_CM), the cream Alps I'm using right now aren't clicky. They're dampened tactile.
Ahhh. I thought they were dampened clicky. My bad. Enjoy clears :)
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Matias Quiet switches are clones (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Matias_Quiet_Pro#Quiet_Pro) of the Cream Alps in your board. Stock Clears are WAY heavier in actuation force versus these switches. I think a modded clear such as a 62g Clear might be closer to the Cream Alps. I can't comment on MYs since I hate those. Also the actuation on the Clears would be in the middle of the travel versus the top.
I don't think I care so much about the actuation force. I looked at the diagram for Alps switches and they all actuate around 60g. I am concerned, however, about the force it takes to bottom out the switch, as I do bottom out my switches.
According to the same diagram, the Alps bottom out at 80g whereas the Clears at 100g. I'm wondering how much the extra 20g will change things. I do know that I got tired of MY switches, which bottom out at 120g, definitely too heavy for me.
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Then it seems like you'll get tired with Clears then. Like I said, I suggest modding Clears to a lighter spring in order to get the feel of clears with a less harsh/heavy bottom out.
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Stock Clears are significantly heavier than Browns and Blues.
That's the reason I'm looking at them. I found the Browns and Blues (too) light.
including Ducky full-sized keyboards with thick dye sub PBT keycaps (a very good deal).
Might be nice. But I need an ISO layout, also I prefer Beige keyboards/keycaps as they don't show the dirt as quickly. I do like the dyesub PBT keycaps on the Extended II. They looked like new after I cleaned them.
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Then it seems like you'll get tired with Clears then. Like I said, I suggest modding Clears to a lighter spring in order to get the feel of clears with a less harsh/heavy bottom out.
I see. Thanks, this is what I wanted to know. I wouldn't like buying another crap keyboard like the MY switches that are too tiring.
As a little note, I'm surprised Cherry doesn't produce anything between the Blues/Browns (65g to bottom out?) and the Clears (100g to bottom out). The Blues/Browns really are light whereas the Clears might be too stiff.
Maybe I should look at the MX Blacks? The diagram says they bottom out at 80g, which is exactly the same as my cream Alps...hmmmm. Your thoughts?
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Then it seems like you'll get tired with Clears then. Like I said, I suggest modding Clears to a lighter spring in order to get the feel of clears with a less harsh/heavy bottom out.
I see. Thanks, this is what I wanted to know. I wouldn't like buying another crap keyboard like the MY switches that are too tiring.
As a little note, I'm surprised Cherry doesn't produce anything between the Blues/Browns (65g to bottom out?) and the Clears (100g to bottom out). The Blues/Browns really are light whereas the Clears might be too stiff.
Maybe I should look at the MX Blacks? The diagram says they bottom out at 80g, which is exactly the same as my cream Alps...hmmmm. Your thoughts?
Blacks are linear. IF you've never used a linear switch, they can feel pretty alien. If you want tactile, go for the clears, mod them down the road to your taste. If it's just a force issue and you want Cherry switches, blacks are perfect.
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I am concerned, however, about the force it takes to bottom out the switch, as I do bottom out my switches.
Alps tend to bottom out more because the actuation point is high and you tend to free fall from there.
Other switches that actuate farther down might actually be less inclined to hit bottom.
And O-rings are really nice for cushioning.
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Then it seems like you'll get tired with Clears then. Like I said, I suggest modding Clears to a lighter spring in order to get the feel of clears with a less harsh/heavy bottom out.
I see. Thanks, this is what I wanted to know. I wouldn't like buying another crap keyboard like the MY switches that are too tiring.
As a little note, I'm surprised Cherry doesn't produce anything between the Blues/Browns (65g to bottom out?) and the Clears (100g to bottom out). The Blues/Browns really are light whereas the Clears might be too stiff.
Maybe I should look at the MX Blacks? The diagram says they bottom out at 80g, which is exactly the same as my cream Alps...hmmmm. Your thoughts?
You can try MX Blacks or you can try 62g, 65g, or 80g springs which are all in between Clears and Blues. They're sold at Originative or can be found through trades.
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I believe MX clears were made to serve as spacebar, etc. switches for boards that use browns; they are rather heavy and the actuation point is a lot further down than an Alps switch. And they're louder than the cream switches in your Apple; they may lack a clicker but they also lack dampening.
Most people who get clears seem to end up trying lighter springs in them (opening them up and modifying them).
Matias has started making boards that specifically copy the AEKII feel and they come in mini and bluetooth versions as well. I would give them a try first.
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I see. Thank you all for your advice. I shall see what I can buy, if something good presents itself. Maybe I'll take a plunge at Blacks, or go for the Clears after all with the intention of changing the springs down the line.
Quick question: how easy is it to change the springs? Can a Cherry switch be opened from the top while it's still sitting on the PCB/plate? Or does it require soldering each switch off?
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Alps suck. You and me, one on one. What's up, punk?
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I have a G81-3000 MY-switch keyboard and hate it. Those MY-switches make my fingers tire.
Alps suck. You and me, one on one. What's up, punk?
*popcorn*
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Alps suck. You and me, one on one. What's up, punk?
MY! It's so nice to meet you. I love your work. Stomp that mother!
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Nice to meet you too, Moose. I hear you've been championing MY work (pun intended), even under the scrutiny of these worthless whelps who use Alps.