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geekhack Community => Keyboard Keycaps => Topic started by: xSpartanCx on Sun, 28 July 2013, 13:13:36

Title: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: xSpartanCx on Sun, 28 July 2013, 13:13:36

I've seen lots of sets of modifier keys that border the alpha keys, and I've noticed that a lot of keycaps don't have a colored |\ key. Why is this? I know it's not technically a modifier key, but I think it looks a lot better to have that colored. What are your guys' thoughts?

(http://webwit.nl/input/kbsim/img/modelm_4.jpg)

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: Sifo on Sun, 28 July 2013, 13:16:29

I don't like it colored when doing two tone sets.. probably just used to it because of these retro schemes.

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: MKULTRA on Sun, 28 July 2013, 14:29:35

Simply because it isn't a modifier.  Just depends on preference.  On all my multicolor/two tone sets I have that key matching my alphas.

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: Lastpilot on Sun, 28 July 2013, 15:12:21

I like having the "\|" and "`~" colored. Modifier or not, I think it just looks awkward if they aren't in the mod scheme. I also rarely use these keys so it would be good to distinguish them from the brackets and number row.

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: damorgue on Sun, 28 July 2013, 15:18:38

I see you too want to join the enlightened crowd of the ISO users. Nah, I just happened to notice that this lack of balance to the colour scheme isn't present in ISO.

I agree with you though, it would look neater with both |\ and `~ coloured even though they aren't modifiers. Not that many need them to be in a different colour to remember that they are in fact different from the normal keys. It is probably more nostalgic/archaic/historical than anything else, and if the only reason why they still differ is because of looks then I might as well decide to colour them along with  the modifiers to balance things out.

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: alaricljs on Sun, 28 July 2013, 16:09:57

So then in what way is Tab a modifier?  Just like space it is a character, empty space but still there.

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: damorgue on Sun, 28 July 2013, 16:12:18

Never thought about tab. I guess it is confirmed that it makes no sense. Lets abolish it straight away. OCD people  and those who just like to balance the colours unite.

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: IFL on Sun, 28 July 2013, 16:13:17

I also like them the same color as my alphas. In fact this is why I switched from ISO to ANSI, two tone just doesn't work on an ISO-layout.

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: xSpartanCx on Sun, 28 July 2013, 16:18:40

Quote from: Lastpilot on Sun, 28 July 2013, 15:12:21

I like having the "\|" and "`~" colored. Modifier or not, I think it just looks awkward if they aren't in the mod scheme. I also rarely use these keys so it would be good to distinguish them from the brackets and number row.

I agree, it looks so much better to have a full border of color

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: MKULTRA on Sun, 28 July 2013, 16:33:21

Quote from: xSpartanCx on Sun, 28 July 2013, 16:18:40

Quote from: Lastpilot on Sun, 28 July 2013, 15:12:21

I like having the "\|" and "`~" colored. Modifier or not, I think it just looks awkward if they aren't in the mod scheme. I also rarely use these keys so it would be good to distinguish them from the brackets and number row.

I agree, it looks so much better to have a full border of color

And I will respectfully disagree.  I like the classic look.

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: rowdy on Sun, 28 July 2013, 17:14:48

In that case LOL why is * + - / on the numpad in the modifier colour ;))

I don't really mind either, and can understand both lines of reasoning.

If I was getting a keycap set with both, though, I would probably have \| and `~ the same colour as the alphas - a more retro look.

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 28 July 2013, 17:16:19

Quote from: xSpartanCx on Sun, 28 July 2013, 16:18:40

I agree, it looks so much better to have a full border of color

I totally agree about the \| key, but I would still keep the `~ key pearl rather than pebble.

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Sun, 28 July 2013, 17:19:02

Then also, why are 2/3 the function row the wrong color? Those aren't character keys!

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: damorgue on Sun, 28 July 2013, 17:23:06

I'd be interested if someone could enlighten us as to why this is and could explain the origins. Where was this typical distinction in colours first seen? I feel as if IBM had them that way quite early but surely they weren't first?

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: Photoelectric on Sun, 28 July 2013, 17:27:42

Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Sun, 28 July 2013, 17:19:02

Then also, why are 2/3 the function row the wrong color? Those aren't character keys!

Exactly.  At this point with many custom sets, it's a matter of taste.  I prefer symmetry myself.

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 28 July 2013, 18:03:53

Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Sun, 28 July 2013, 17:19:02

Then also, why are 2/3 the function row the wrong color? Those aren't character keys!

And some of the IBM 122s came with that scheme reversed - center keys light.

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: 0100010 on Sun, 28 July 2013, 21:48:11

I had all black on my board, but then added the blue modifiers so it looked 'as expected'.  No rhyme or reason why not to make the slash pipe ket or the tilde key blue, other than it just doesn't look 'right'.

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: 0100010 on Sun, 28 July 2013, 21:55:17

Then - even Unicomp has put out a board with colored tilde and slash pipe keys, and even had the numpad 'wrong'.

(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c1/626e6577/Unicomp Wildcat/DSC_0625.jpg)

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: rowdy on Sun, 28 July 2013, 22:38:13

That's ... different.  I hadn't consciously noticed the numpad before.

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: HongKongFui on Mon, 29 July 2013, 05:04:14

Regarding its colour it should be treated like a modifier. everything else doesn't make sense tbh. if you like it having it in the same colour like the alphas it's your taste and we can't argue about it, but logically it has to be treated like a mod

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: alaricljs on Mon, 29 July 2013, 09:29:37

But what is the logic?  Your claim that not having \| in the same color as mods doesn't make sense is the same argument for having `~ the same as mods.

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 29 July 2013, 12:32:52

Quote from: alaricljs on Mon, 29 July 2013, 09:29:37

But what is the logic? 

This is beyond logic and into aesthetics.

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: alaricljs on Mon, 29 July 2013, 12:34:27

Quote from: HongKongFui on Mon, 29 July 2013, 05:04:14

... but logically ...

Quote from: fohat.digs on Mon, 29 July 2013, 12:32:52

Quote from: alaricljs on Mon, 29 July 2013, 09:29:37

But what is the logic? 

This is beyond logic and into aesthetics.

He claimed logic, I would love to hear it tho.

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 29 July 2013, 17:13:03

I've always liked the |\ and ~` caps to match the mods in colors.  I'd love it if group buys would include those caps in both color schemes for those people who like symmetry (like me) and for those who prefer them to match the alphas. The cost difference would be marginal, but, IMO, it would look so much nicer.

On the topic of logic, there is no logic to it at all, not so far as I can see.  If we only had the modifiers different colors, we'd have to make Tab, Backspace, and Enter the same color as the alphas, not just ~` and |\, as those keys are not modifier keys.  I suppose I should add Caps Lock in there too since, technically, it's not a modifier key.  The layout like that has, as far as I can tell, always been an aesthetic thing.

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: digi on Mon, 29 July 2013, 17:18:58

How dare you color a modifier cap.

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 29 July 2013, 17:59:39

If it were just modifiers that were colored (logic-wise), then we'd only have alphas (anything that is typed on the screen as a character or blank space) of one color, and everything else, including Esc, all of the function row keys, arrow keys, and the 6-key cluster above the arrow keys--another color.  Or even pick a third color: one for alphas/character, second for modifier keys, and third for everything else.  That would be logical.

Because none of the colorways follow this logic, the end results are influenced by aesthetics.  So even those using the "purist" point of view, the sets where `~ and \| are of the same color as the alphas are still incorrect, because those sets still have caps that are not properly colored.

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 29 July 2013, 18:01:32

Quote from: nubbinator on Mon, 29 July 2013, 17:13:03

I'd love it if group buys would include those caps in both color schemes for those people who like symmetry (like me) and for those who prefer them to match the alphas. The cost difference would be marginal, but, IMO, it would look so much nicer.

This would solve the problem - people could use whichever keycaps they prefer.

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 29 July 2013, 18:17:00

Here, a completely logical layout (someone can correct me if I missed something)

(http://i.imgur.com/GhI5nKc.png)

Alphas, Modifiers, Action Keys.

(Edit: fixed the Alt... didn't get fully selected before for some reason).

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 29 July 2013, 18:19:27

Quote from: Photoelectric on Mon, 29 July 2013, 18:17:00

Here, a completely logical layout (someone can correct me if I missed something)

Show Image

(http://i.imgur.com/E3fyxmg.png)

Alphas, Modifiers, Action Keys.

Right Alt?

And why is backslash purple?  It is not a modifier.

Oh, and the right menu key is not really a modifier.

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 29 July 2013, 18:21:26

Quote from: Photoelectric on Mon, 29 July 2013, 18:17:00

Here, a completely logical layout (someone can correct me if I missed something)

Show Image

(http://i.imgur.com/E3fyxmg.png)

Alphas, Modifiers, Action Keys.

That makes me twitch, both for aesthetic reasons and for what seems like randomly assigning some key colors.

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 29 July 2013, 18:23:09

Quote from: nubbinator on Mon, 29 July 2013, 18:21:26

Quote from: Photoelectric on Mon, 29 July 2013, 18:17:00

Here, a completely logical layout (someone can correct me if I missed something)

Show Image

(http://i.imgur.com/GhI5nKc.png)

Alphas, Modifiers, Action Keys.

That makes me twitch, both for aesthetic reasons and for what seems like randomly assigning some key colors.

Yeah, but that's logic, which is what people claim makes `~ and \| caps necessary to be the same color as alphas.  I was just illustrating my point.  Aesthetically, it's random.  Logically, it's completely not.

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 29 July 2013, 18:48:00

Logically for me, I use |\ as backspace and backspace as |\, so having a uniform number row, and then an alternate color 1.5 key, it would look perfect.

(http://i.imgur.com/fqOdTFM.png)

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: hashbaz on Mon, 29 July 2013, 18:48:17

Coloring Backslash feels wrong to me because it is way more like Q, 6, ?, and Tilde than it is like Tab or Shift.  The fact that Tab and Enter produce characters inside the computer's memory is irrelevant.  The traditional coloring emphasizes the semantic difference between "the character set" and "support keys".  I think it makes sense to keep Spacebar light while Tab is dark since Tab is primarly about layout and alignment, while space is a necessary part of typing sentences.

There is a parallel emphasis to the tenkey, with "numbers" and "operators".  The function row seems to be colored purely for show.

But even aesthetically, I like the asymmetry of Tilde, Backslash, and Spacebar to break things up.  It provides visual interest.

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 29 July 2013, 19:09:18

What about ISO layout where \| is a 1x key next to a 1x backspace?

Should it be coloured then?

No.

Exactly :p

I still question the menu key and \| in the picture.

Title: Re: Modifier set colors: Why not |\ ?
Post by: 0100010 on Mon, 29 July 2013, 22:30:41

How's this for a color scheme :

(http://www.quadibloc.com/comp/images/enhpc.gif)

Colors exolained at the source:  http://www.quadibloc.com/comp/kybint.htm