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geekhack Community => Keyboard Keycaps => Topic started by: tns on Thu, 08 August 2013, 19:54:56

Title: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc vs Titanium keycaps?
Post by: tns on Thu, 08 August 2013, 19:54:56: Dear GHers "Metal-ers" why would you choose aluminum keycaps over zinc keycaps? or the reverse?

What are pros and cons?

And what's existing on the (our) market?

Thx :D

edit : Titanium
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminium vs Zinc keycaps?
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 08 August 2013, 19:58:55: The aluminum caps are lighter than zinc. I like the zinc caps more but they wobbled a lot on the board I tried out.

I think the only full set of aluminum caps is the scarface set. Zinc caps can be had from feng.
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminium vs Zinc keycaps?
Post by: Xenderwind on Thu, 08 August 2013, 20:01:32: I use an aluminum spacebar and one zinc key for my escape. I like my zinc escape because it has a design I like and I like the sound of it bottoming out when I mash escape, but I would never want to type on it. There was a post a week or two ago on reddit of some guys zinc alphas that look disgusting.
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminium vs Zinc keycaps?
Post by: Topre on Thu, 08 August 2013, 20:02:26: Check out this Reddit post (http://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/1jnbsr/why_i_wouldnt_recommend_zinc_key_caps_photos/). Zinc keycaps are not ideal for regular use.
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc keycaps?
Post by: tns on Thu, 08 August 2013, 20:29:57: Quote from: Xenderwind on Thu, 08 August 2013, 20:01:32
There was a post a week or two ago on reddit of some guys zinc alphas that look disgusting.
Quote
they were supposed to be gen 2 i believe, but half the caps are actually 1 and the other half are 2.
edit: the S appears to be gen 2 I believe. 2 having the stem edges exposed, correct?

Quote from: Xenderwind on Thu, 08 August 2013, 20:01:32
I use an aluminum spacebar and one zinc key for my escape.
Oh How long have you been using that aluminum spacebar?
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc vs Titanium keycaps?
Post by: tns on Thu, 08 August 2013, 20:47:24: Hmm what about Titanium?

very expensive?
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc vs Titanium keycaps?
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 08 August 2013, 20:50:00: ....for real? You don't know?
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc vs Titanium keycaps?
Post by: tns on Thu, 08 August 2013, 20:58:40: Quote from: CPTBadAss on Thu, 08 August 2013, 20:50:00
....for real? You don't know?
I just know it is expensive... but in accordance to Zinc and Aluminum how don't know how many times more expensive

edit : Like can you give me a ratio between these 3 kinds of keycaps?
edit : actually, for typist pros & cons of titanium as well :o

edit : btw if I'm totally wrong I'm really thanking you to bright my knowledge ^^'

Then correct me if I might be wrong :
if Zinc is 1
Then Aluminum is 5 x More expensive
Then Titanium is 10 x More expensive
???

weight though
if Zinc is 1
Aluminum is 3 x lighter
Titanium is 2 x lighter
??
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc vs Titanium keycaps?
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 08 August 2013, 21:27:04: I like Aluminum best, wish there was a complete Aluminum set available. Zinc is nice as well. Ti is way too expensive for me to afford.
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc vs Titanium keycaps?
Post by: lucifurburch on Thu, 08 August 2013, 21:51:14: Ya i just spent over $1000 on titanium keycaps...and that was just for the bottom two rows, the group buy i am getting these from is now closed and to my knowledge this is Fengs second group buy...the third is probably going to be for other rows so some of us may one day end up with most/all of the keys we need for a tenkeyless. The keys i just bought from him probably wont be made again and if they are, not for a very long time. zinc keycaps you can buy from Feng for like $80 for the main 37 lettered keycaps, heres a link: http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_ipg=25&_from=&_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ssn=geek_feng&_sop=10
Probably should mention that as cptbadass said the (blank) scarface set is the only full aluminum set you can get, and good luck finding a set... the only way is to find someone that allready has a set as i belive they were made in a group buy, therefor no longer for "sale"... aluminum key caps are mainly novelty caps, if you are interested in novelty caps Feng also carry's aluminum and zinc caps (on Fengs e-bay page i linked). novelty aluminum keycaps go for around $16-$28 a cap, zinc ones for $4 a cap (just for reference a 1.0x cap in titanium cost me $30). also a aluminum spacebar costs $30-33 and a titanium spacebar costs at least $100
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc vs Titanium keycaps?
Post by: lucifurburch on Thu, 08 August 2013, 22:06:30: as for the pros/cons

zinc is cheapest but will eventually wear off the chrome/nickel plating also the keys arn't as perfect as the aluminum/titanium

aluminum is much stronger then zinc but still scratches reasonably easy the best thing about aluminum is that no matter how much wear they get they don't change color (except possibly anodized ones)

titanium keycaps only have one downside...PRICE

should also mention shiny metal keycaps are hard to keep clean...fingerprints

as for weight all i know is aluminum is the lightest
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc vs Titanium keycaps?
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Fri, 09 August 2013, 00:34:52: Aluminum -VS- Zinc :
- Zinc is cheaper
- Aluminum is lighter
- Zinc feels less cold (but still colder than Titanium)
- Zinc "needs" plating -> Bad, as it wears off over time
- Aluminum can be anodized to color it, and to improve surface hardness

Aluminum -VS- Titanium :
- Aluminum is lighter
- Titanium is tougher
- Both can be anodized
- Both build a tough oxide layer
- Titanium is more expensive (same for alloys)
- Titanium is harder to machine and process in general
- Aluminum feels much much colder (10x better heat conductivity iirc)

Titanium -VS- Stainless Steel
- Titanium is lighter
- Stainless Steel can be tougher
- Stainless Steel can't be anodized
- Stainless Steel can be harder to machine than Titanium
- Stainless Steel feels less cold than Titanium (the least "cold" of the 4 materials)
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc vs Titanium keycaps?
Post by: The_Ed on Fri, 09 August 2013, 00:49:52: Zinc and aluminum are cheap and often have fitting problems, and the aluminum spacebars have an anodizing problem on the sides. I have 1 of Feng's/Hammer's R1 titanium spacebars, and have ordered 2 THICK R2. I think the spacebar is the only key that should be metal, and it should be titanium as that is the only metal with acceptable quality so far (at least for my standards).

I wonder what the quality of a stainless steel spacebar would be like... Somebody should run a GB for THICK stainless steel spacebars with the same customizing options as titanium.
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc vs Titanium keycaps?
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Fri, 09 August 2013, 01:10:46: Quote from: The_Ed on Fri, 09 August 2013, 00:49:52
I wonder what the quality of a stainless steel spacebar would be like... Somebody should run a GB for THICK stainless steel spacebars with the same customizing options as titanium.

Before we attempt this we should get that super heavy spring GB going...
Stainless Steel is heavy (almost 3x more heavy than Aluminum) and making it THICK won't help with that :D
But yeah, I'm all for SS keycaps (if they are made of the right alloy that is) as they would last for a lifetime and won't feel annoyingly cold!
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc vs Titanium keycaps?
Post by: The_Ed on Fri, 09 August 2013, 01:12:51: I only had to switch from a red to a black for my titanium spacebar. Then there's always Grey 37 after that, so I don't think custom heavy springs will be necessary.
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc vs Titanium keycaps?
Post by: noisyturtle on Fri, 09 August 2013, 01:34:46: Solid gold baby
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc vs Titanium keycaps?
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Fri, 09 August 2013, 01:34:55: Quote from: The_Ed on Fri, 09 August 2013, 01:12:51
I only had to switch from a red to a black for my titanium spacebar. Then there's always Grey 37 after that, so I don't think custom heavy springs will be necessary.

Already using MX Grey (Clear / PandaClear / ErgoClear boards) and MX DarkGrey (Black / Red boards) for spacebar.
My thumbs are kinda big and strong, probably too much SNES / GameBoy usage as a child :D
But seriously, we are looking at 30-50g weight depending on the thickness...
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc vs Titanium keycaps?
Post by: The_Ed on Fri, 09 August 2013, 01:42:28: You are vastly over-exaggerating...

Thin 6x from Titanium R1 = 18.41g.

(http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=34407.0;attach=3909;image)
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc vs Titanium keycaps?
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Fri, 09 August 2013, 01:55:18: Quote from: The_Ed on Fri, 09 August 2013, 01:42:28
You are vastly over-exaggerating...

Thin 6x from Titanium R1 = 18.41g.

Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=34407.0;attach=3909;image)

And the same thing in Stainless Steel would be 30 - 33g (depending on the alloy)
Making it THICK instead of thin would add, hence my 30-50g figure...
Still vastly over-exaggerating?
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc vs Titanium keycaps?
Post by: The_Ed on Fri, 09 August 2013, 02:20:56: THICK only adds 0.5mm to the walls, so I calculate the THICK titanium 6 stem to be ~26.01g based on thin 6 stem = 18.41g and thin 4 stem = 16.27g.

Titanium is ~4.5g/cc, stainless steel is ~7.5-8g/cc (depending on alloys). So THICK 6 stem stainless steel will be ~43.35-46.24g... Thin 6 stem will be ~30.68-32.73g...

Well damn, I guess stainless steel really is heavy... I admit I was wrong.
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc vs Titanium keycaps?
Post by: MOZ on Fri, 09 August 2013, 07:23:16: I am in talks with Originative to conduct a GB for springs of a vast variety of weights.
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc vs Titanium keycaps?
Post by: divito on Fri, 09 August 2013, 08:08:06: Based on that Reddit thread, it only seems like the extensively used WASD cluster was worn, and probably had something to do with the fashion in which the letters were done. Other keys in the vicinity still look fine after those eight months. That being said, going blank could help, as well as making sure you wipe your hands before each use, and possibly even doing some type of clear coat to the keys will help prolong the zinc caps.
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc vs Titanium keycaps?
Post by: tns on Sat, 10 August 2013, 02:18:11: uh? we had Stainless steel keycaps?

edit : ah not yet, If I'm reading well ~~
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc vs Titanium keycaps?
Post by: longweight on Sat, 10 August 2013, 02:30:24: Quote from: lucifurburch on Thu, 08 August 2013, 22:06:30
aluminum is much stronger then zinc but still scratches reasonably easy the best thing about aluminum is that no matter how much wear they get they don't change color (except possibly anodized ones)

That is absolutely not true, aluminium caps discolour very easily.
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc vs Titanium keycaps?
Post by: tbc on Sat, 10 August 2013, 02:39:26: is it the user's fingernails/callouses causing the wear and rubbing off the coating on those zincs? or is it just one's hand grease corroding the material over time?
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc vs Titanium keycaps?
Post by: The_Ed on Sat, 10 August 2013, 02:47:35: Stainless steel caps will likely be made in the future seeing as there's already been steel cases made.

With a THICK stainless steel 6 stem spacebar a Grey 37 switch should feel ~77-83.3% of a red. That means some heavier custom springs will likely be wanted as that is quite light.

For comparison a thin titanium 6 stem spacebar with a black switch should feel ~93.2% of a red. 93.2% is close enough that it still feels like a red, but since the THICK titanium spacebars will likely be ~7.6g heavier I'll have to change the switch to a Grey 37. That should make it feel like ~121% of a red, so I might have to add a little weight to the THICK titanium spacebar...
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc vs Titanium keycaps?
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sat, 10 August 2013, 02:49:32: Quote from: The_Ed on Sat, 10 August 2013, 02:47:35
Stainless steel caps will likely be made in the future seeing as there's already been steel cases made.

With a THICK stainless steel 6 stem spacebar a Grey 37 switch should feel ~77-83.3% of a red. That means some heavier custom springs will likely be wanted as that is quite light.

For comparison a thin titanium 6 stem spacebar with a black switch should feel ~93.2% of a red. 93.2% is close enough that it still feels like a red, but since the THICK titanium spacebars will likely be ~7.6g heavier I'll have to change the switch to a Grey 37. That should make it feel like ~121% of a red, so I might have to add a little weight to the THICK titanium spacebar...

There is an IC about getting heavier springs made, might interest those wanting heavy metal caps.
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc vs Titanium keycaps?
Post by: The_Ed on Sat, 10 August 2013, 03:04:00: My math shows that I am fine for my THICK titanium 6 stem spacebars, just not the equivalent in stainless steel (unless I went thin, which I probably wouldn't buy). Unless I bought a stainless steel spacebar I would have no reason to buy heavier custom springs. So since stainless steel caps don't exist (yet) I won't join that GB. When stainless steel caps do exist heavier springs will likely become available again because there will be demand for them.
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc vs Titanium keycaps?
Post by: GMC on Sat, 10 August 2013, 05:49:44: That guys is just plain sweaty. I've had zinc alphas and number row, and Ti space on my pure for about a year now and only one key with any discoloration. Since that is a number key it's down to a blip in the manufacture. Not a problem. Also board is standard Brown switches and no weight issues at all.

Not tried Alu but zinc are great value for money. Ti is the best IMO but you need deep pockets. Would love a bronze, brass or copper modifier set to complete my board.... But where are those metals in the debate?
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc vs Titanium keycaps?
Post by: RED-404 on Mon, 07 July 2014, 14:14:00: Let's just dig this thread out of the grave. :p
My problem with zinc keycaps.
MKC Zinc V2 WASD Key Set delivered and started using Mar. 31, 2014.
Pic today July. 7, 2014. Not holding up so well.
(http://red.dazoe.net/stuff/WIN_20140707_135142%20-%20CX.JPG)
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc vs Titanium keycaps?
Post by: divito on Mon, 07 July 2014, 14:16:10: Quote from: RED-404 on Mon, 07 July 2014, 14:14:00
Let's just dig this thread out of the grave. :p
My problem with zinc keycaps.
MKC Zinc V2 WASD Key Set delivered and started using Mar. 31, 2014.
Pic today July. 7, 2014. Not holding up so well.
Show Image
(http://red.dazoe.net/stuff/WIN_20140707_135142%20-%20CX.JPG)

Only one key, and S is notorious problem for gamers' continual transition from W to S, along with being in line with finger nail hitting it.
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc vs Titanium keycaps?
Post by: RED-404 on Mon, 07 July 2014, 14:30:05: Yeah, it started one day as a small pit at the bottom edge of the S legend and progressed from there over the past 2 months.
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc vs Titanium keycaps?
Post by: The_Beast on Mon, 07 July 2014, 19:28:09: I've only used Titanium, I'm sold on them hook line and sinker.

Stainless would be next (if there were any produced, I've never seen a SS cap) and aluminum next after that. I'd avoid zinc all together due to some of the pictures I've seen (like the one RED-404 just posted)
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc vs Titanium keycaps?
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Mon, 07 July 2014, 23:35:56: Btw, I recently got this custom build keyboard from ebay...

[attachimg=1]

Aluminum (casing) and stainless steel (key cluster), it's insanely heavy!
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc vs Titanium keycaps?
Post by: noisyturtle on Tue, 08 July 2014, 02:31:42: I would bet bone caps on an ivory case sound amazing.....
Title: Re: Dear "Metal-ers" Aluminum vs Zinc vs Titanium keycaps?
Post by: ihateregister on Sun, 08 March 2015, 13:54:05: Quote from: RED-404 on Mon, 07 July 2014, 14:14:00
Let's just dig this thread out of the grave. :p
My problem with zinc keycaps.
MKC Zinc V2 WASD Key Set delivered and started using Mar. 31, 2014.
Pic today July. 7, 2014. Not holding up so well.
Show Image
(http://red.dazoe.net/stuff/WIN_20140707_135142%20-%20CX.JPG)

Ditto, after 3-4 years of "heavy" gaming, zinc keycaps start to look terrible... (+1 for for being wobbly, sometimes the keys fall out, probably because the keys are so heavy compared to the stem.)

(http://i.imgur.com/H9zgYT5.jpg)