geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: decklin on Mon, 10 November 2008, 18:20:08
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Firstly, I don't think I have posted before, so, hello. Been lurking for a while.
I just randomly came across this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823224001
Never heard of ABS, but... check out the images. Apart from the different logo, looks exactly like a Majestouch. A review says it has black Alps switches, though, which seems strange (I thought Filco used Cherry switches?). The product website, though, seems to bear this out:
http://www.abs.com/app/Keyboard_M1_details.asp
"Mechanical Keyswitch Diagram". Sure does look like a black Alps.
Anyone tried it? At only $65 (and from Newegg who'll have it there tomorrow :-)), I'd consider buying one just on the chance that it's really as good as it sounds (I've never used black Alps switches, but they are the tactile kind if I understand correctly). I'd love to hear a report if someone does rush out and order it right now.
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Good find! Standard layout with black Alps switches.
Black Alps switches are decent. There are a couple of geekhackers here that really love them.
I'd definitely love to see someone pick one of these up and do a proper review.
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Both of these are most likely re-badged Costar OEM keyboards.
http://www.costar.com.tw/products01/info.php?p_id=45&p_sid=32 (http://www.costar.com.tw/products01/info.php?p_id=45&p_sid=32)
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I saw this earlier today as well. It seems to be the same thing as this (http://global.gmarket.co.kr/challenge/neo_goods/goods.asp?goodscode=126018652&pos_shop_cd=SH&pos_class_cd=111111111&pos_class_kind=T&keyword_order=Filco+Zero), but with different switch color. It would be nice to be able to pick it up (even if it is rebranded) without having to be shipped internationally. :D
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Both of these are most likely re-badged Costar OEM keyboards.
http://www.costar.com.tw/products01/info.php?p_id=45&p_sid=32 (http://www.costar.com.tw/products01/info.php?p_id=45&p_sid=32)
If they manufacture the keyboards, why do they have the Das keyboard in their product inventory (http://www.costar.com.tw/products01/info.php?p_id=97&p_sid=32)?
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They're also an ODM so it's entirely plausible that they manufacture that keyboard for DAS.
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sorry to derail the thread but is this (http://global.gmarket.co.kr/challenge/neo_goods/goods.asp?goodscode=121196251&pos_shop_cd=SH&pos_class_cd=111111111&pos_class_kind=T&keyword_order=majestouch)a good deal?
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sorry for yet another "hows that switch again?" question, but the newegg reviews say on the one hand black alps has no click, and on the other hand that its as loud as model M. Someone to explain?
also, arent there both clicky and non clicky black alps? clicky like in the smk85 with black alps that xsphat reviewed in review section. But elsewhere people have described it as not having a click...
I thought black alps was like cherry browns without the bump?
Is resistance about as light as cherry browns?
If there is no click, is the clack just the bottoming out on the black alps?
[update: I gather the black alps are "like cherry browns with slightly less of a bump". Is the spring resistance about the same? is the noise mainly from bottoming out?]
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also, arent there both clicky and non clicky black alps? clicky like in the smk85 with black alps that xsphat reviewed in review section. But elsewhere people have described it as not having a click...
I thought black alps was like cherry browns without the bump?
Is resistance about as light as cherry browns?
If there is no click, is the clack just the bottoming out on the black alps?
my own experience with genuine black alps keyswitches is exclusively with the ones used in dell at101 keyboards. these make very little noise during the downstroke (but there is a slight tactile feel), and the springs are fairly stiff so the switches need a good amount of force to depress (if i had to guess, perhaps close to model m force levels). pretty much all of the noise is from the keys bottoming out.
all in all, i don't like these switches.
note that the switches in this abs keyboard may not be genuine alps switches, so there's really no telling how they'll feel.
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my own experience with genuine black alps keyswitches is exclusively with the ones used in dell at101 keyboards. these make very little noise during the downstroke (but there is a slight tactile feel), and the springs are fairly stiff so the switches need a good amount of force to depress (if i had to guess, perhaps close to model m force levels). pretty much all of the noise is from the keys bottoming out.
all in all, i don't like these switches.
note that the switches in this abs keyboard may not be genuine alps switches, so there's really no telling how they'll feel.
Thanks alpslover! :) If you've had any experience with cherry blacks, how would you compare alps blacks with them? They sound very similar.
I guess my one concern is spring tension. The black cherries eventually I found to be too stiff. The brown cherries I find to be a bit too light. Wondering if black alps will be a goldilocks-like middle ground, as far as spring tension.
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The black Alps are loud because the springs twang and reverberate with every keystroke and they tend to be loud when they bottom out. I had an SMK85 with brand new black genuine Alps switches.
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The black Alps are loud because the springs twang and reverberate with every keystroke and they tend to be loud when they bottom out. I had an SMK85 with brand new black genuine Alps switches.
how would you rate spring tension as compared with cherry blacks and browns?
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I sent the following e-mail to ABS to try to pry more honest, accurate, and technical information from them regarding the capabilities of their M1 keyboard. Please note that some of the claims I have made in my e-mail may only approach truth if they are not truth, mainly in an effort prod them to respond with technical information (even if only to correct my assumptions.)
RE: ABS M1 Heavy Duty Professional Gaming Mechanical Keyboard
From the overview of this keyboard you offer, I read that "M1 also supports
6-key typing capacity", later alluding to the USB connection.
I know that the nature of USB and related protocols is what limits the
recognition of simultaneous key conditions, in which case 6 statuses are at
most transmitted without the use of proprietary drivers. What I would like
to know is if this keyboard is designed with PS/2 compatibility in mind, and
if full n-key rollover is realized using a PS/2 connection configuration.
My limited understanding in keyboard mechanics suggests the most likely
route used to achieve this solution, of a '6-key typing capacity', is a
matrix with individually dioded keys. I make this estimation based on price
and industry manufacturing 'standards'.
Because you don't appear to make any patentable claims (the 'standard
keyboard' see a lot of rehashing rather than specific innovation, and that's
certainly fine because a lot of companies still miss the mark,) it would be
helpful for me to make a decision and suggest this keyboard to my friends if
you could elaborate on how your design has allowed you to achieve '6-key
typing capacity' for your keyboard.
N-key rollover is certainly not foreign to the market, but for whatever
reason, marketing departments do not stress this functionality or instead
use confusing and disparate terms regarding such a technology. 65 dollars
may be reasonable for a keyboard with this technology, but until
manufacturers/distributors start coming clean about what exactly the
technology is that is made available on the keyboard, it will forever be
hard to tell what is really being offered, and therefore less likely that
any specific keyboard might be chosen and purchased.
I look forward to your response to my inquiry.
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If they manufacture the keyboards, why do they have the Das keyboard in their product inventory (http://www.costar.com.tw/products01/info.php?p_id=97&p_sid=32)?
That's what I thought until I read that the III is made in Taiwan. So it might be made by DSI, Costar or some other Taiwanese OEM mfgr.
Exactly like I predicted! :D
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I guess my one concern is spring tension. The black cherries eventually I found to be too stiff. The brown cherries I find to be a bit too light.
Shortening the springs in the black MX might produce a tension in between the two.
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Shortening the springs in the black MX might produce a tension in between the two.
does black alps have a tension between the two?
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I thought Alps no longer made switches.
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I thought Alps no longer made switches.
There are Alps clones, such as that Matias Tactile (http://matias.ca/tactilepro2/index.php) and StrongMan (http://64.176.254.221/). For some reason, the StrongMan website uses an ip address for their website? Most likely, those Alps switches are made by StrongMan.
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STRONG WANGS ENTERPRISE CO., LTD.
STRONG MAN ENTERPRISE CO., LTD.
Strong company names. :D
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The black Alps are loud because the springs twang and reverberate with every keystroke and they tend to be loud when they bottom out. I had an SMK85 with brand new black genuine Alps switches.
on the other hand, the black alps switches used on dell keyboards don't twang and reverberate. the only noise they make during their stroke is a sliding sound. the keys do make noise when bottoming and topping out, although even this varies from keyboard to keyboard.
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STRONG WANGS ENTERPRISE CO., LTD.
Damn... Somebody found my secret website. :)
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on the other hand, the black alps switches used on dell keyboards don't twang and reverberate. the only noise they make during their stroke is a sliding sound. the keys do make noise when bottoming and topping out, although even this varies from keyboard to keyboard.
The Dell and SGI ATs have a metal backplate in addition to the pcb. Quite a sturdy construction.
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I sent the following e-mail to ABS
Here is the response I got...looks like a Tier 1 copout:
Thank you for contacting ABS.
We regret to inform you that this keyboard interface is USB but not
PS/2. You may find that it only has a USB cable with this keyboard.
Thank you for your understanding. If you have more questions or
concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us.
So I shoot back with some more technobabble that may or may not be correct:
I understand that the plug that is attached to the wire that comes from the
keyboard is a USB spec plug. What I also generally understand is that USB
keyboards are /historically/ generally backward-compatible to PS/2
interfaces lest they have some significant features that preclude such
backward-compatibility (it is as simple as a small adapter.) Because I
would expect the keyboard to naturally be backward compatible unless it was
specifically designed not to be, I feel all of my questions from the
original message still apply.
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If the ABS is made by Costar then these guys probably have no idea. They're just a marketing company.
Maybe contact Costar directly.
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This is starting to get a bit obnoxious.
PS/2 port and USB port are definitely different. This key board only has
USB port; thus it can be connected into USB port only. This ABS MA
keyboard only has a USB connector.
PS/2 connector
USB connector
Thank you for your understanding. If you have more questions or
concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us.
This is my last response before I ask this issue to be escalated.
I understand that the M1 keyboard only has a USB connector. That connector, however, does not prohibit the protocols the controller may use to connect with a computer.
Since we are referring to Wikipedia, you may find this section from the "USB" article telling:
Most specifically:
"Mice and keyboards are frequently fitted with USB connectors, but because most PC motherboards still retain PS/2 connectors for the keyboard and mouse as of 2007, they are often supplied with a small USB-to-PS/2 adaptor, allowing usage with either USB or PS/2 interface. There is no logic inside these adaptors: they make use of the fact that such HID (Human Interface Device) interfaces are equipped with controllers that are capable of serving both the USB and the PS/2 protocol, and automatically detect which type of port they are plugged into."
Based on my technical knowledge and the information provided on your website about the M1, I would feel it is more likely than not that, with the common and appropriate adaptor, the keyboard will be handled successfully by a computer through the PS/2 interface. I did not design your keyboard, however, which is why I ask if this design feature took place.
Further, my only interest in PS/2 compatibility is because that is the only interface (of PS/2 and USB) where n-key rollover might be tested properly (in 'real-life-use-simulation' testing, anyway). Because the ABS website does not use term 'n-key rollover' and instead alludes to the confusing and assuming phrase '6-key typing capacity', that leads me to believe that it may have n-key rollover capability limited by the USB interface. (You must understand that it is normal for keyboards using the USB specification protocols to be limited to 6 keypresses at a time because of how the protocol buffers keyboard data exchanges with computers -- only with special hardware tricks or special drivers could this normally be altered.)
Therefore it is immaterial except for confirming your claims that the PS/2 interface is compatible with the M1 keyboard. My interest is most particularly in how '6-key typing capacity' was achieved, so that I may understand if this keyboard has the n-key rollover feature, and the PS/2 interface is the best interface to realize the n-key rollover feature. A keyboard may have n-key rollover but will not achieve that in practical use because of the protocol it uses to send information about the keyboard to the computer (the limiting protocol here is USB, as previously mentioned.)
I hope with this understanding that my questions may be more readily answered.
I also just contacted Costar asking if the CST-104 keyboard, which is the keyboard we suspect to be the OEM version of the ABS M1, has full n-key rollover capability.
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I love the wikipedia links to PS/2 and USB. I'd boycott them if I were you. Hell, I'll start boycotting them right now!
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Buy one, grab a USB->PS/2 adapter, try it, if it doesn't work, send it back.
This is Geekhack, the answer is always to buy more keyboards. ;)
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Buy one, grab a USB->PS/2 adapter, try it, if it doesn't work, send it back.
This is Geekhack, the answer is always to buy more keyboards. ;)
Now, this is a geekhacker that GETS IT! ;)
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You know, I already have 20 keyboards lying around that I haven't even identified. :/
Here is the latest lamery from ABS:
As specified in previously email; this keyboard only has USB interface.
If you want to connect it into PS/2 port of your computer, please
purchase a USB-PS/2 converter or a keyboard with PS/2 feature. For your
convenience, you may find a converter here:
http://www.chiefvalue.com/product-_-productdetails.cv_-_item--CE00033833
010060
3010060>
Thank you for your understanding. If you have more questions or
concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Here is my plea for escalation:
This information is really not satisfactory. I hope it was clear to you that I know, mechanically, a keyboard with a USB connector can be attached to a USB-to-PS/2 adaptor and receive signals from a computer when plugged into a PS/2 port, regardless of whether the keyboard controller can appropriately manage the signals.
I also know that sometime first tier customer support isn't provided with the best database of answers to handle all inquiries. I know this because I have worked multiple levels of customer service in the IT industry. Since I feel based on our correspondece that ABS has not provided you the answers I need to have my questions resolved, I ask that you escalate my inquiry to your supervisor, technical support, the design team, or whatever department may be most appropriate.
No response from Costar yet.
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And failure.
We are sorry that this answer cannot make you satisfied. By considering
your situation, we encourage you to give us a call on our toll free
number (800) 685-3471, thus we can have our experienced technicians to
work with you personally.
Thank you for your understanding. If you have more questions or
concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us.
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And failure.
Having the option of calling them direct and sorting it out over a live conversation seems like progress to me.
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keyboard is on sale at Newegg for $39.99 with promo code EMCBBCJDK for black friday.
Edit: How are black ALPS anyways? I hear mixed reviews about the Dell AT101W, but I'm not sure if that's a problem with the board or the switches. Then again, at that price I might have to pick one of those up.
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keyboard is on sale at Newegg for $39.99 with promo code EMCBBCJDK for black friday.
Is there something like benippon for USA, this keyboard looks very promising, and I would love to take one, but since I live outside USA I don't know how I can buy from newegg. It seems I can't find these keyboard anywhere else. If someone is willing to help to export one of these (everything will be paid via paypal) I'll be very thankful.
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It's already sold out, so you probably won't get one for the $39.99 price unless you did so earlier.
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It's already sold out, so you probably won't get one for the $39.99 price unless you did so earlier.
Thanks anyway, I'll keep looking for a black ALPS quality keyboard... I hope at least some of you guys bought it, so I can see how good this keyboard really is... :)
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Alps no longer is making switches, so I doubt that these actually have real Alps switches in them. Perhaps an Alps clone from Strongman, although I've seen those only in the white (clicky, tactile) variety. Or perhaps black Cherry switches?
If the M1 does in fact use linear black Alps or Alps-like switches, then it's probably not worth $39 unless it significantly exceeds the build quality of a $10 Dell AT101W.
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If the M1 does in fact use linear black Alps or Alps-like switches, then it's probably not worth $39 unless it significantly exceeds the build quality of a $10 Dell AT101W.
10$ (+45 for shipping) for a used old dell with suspicious owner who loves to eat greasy donuts over his keyboard? j/k, i'm sure a good one can be bought, but they are big, from the pictures they seem at least big as my model m, which is the reason I don't use it anymore. As a matter of fact I avoid using my 104 filco (although I love the brown cherrys) and prefer typing on one from my two compact choices - hhkb pro and macally mk96, but if I wake up with the desire to use a full size keyboard - then I haven't seen anything better than filco that can suit me better, so from my point of view this ABS is worth a shot.
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Yeah, the AT101Ws are a bit larger than the ABS or Filco. Valid point. Not enough to really matter to me, though. If the size difference was closer to that found between an HHKB Pro and an AT101W... then I'd matter to me!
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Thanks for kyamei's tip, I got this ABS keyboard for $39.99 on newegg and it arrived today. I just opened the box, the board build quality is quite good. I especially like the keycap (nice font) and cable (nylon wrapped).
It is a clicky, tactile mechanical switch keyboard and I love it. I am not very experienced with keyboards yet, but based on the diagram on the manual, it looks like a Alps. I will post some pictures a bit later.
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Thanks for kyamei's tip, I got this ABS keyboard for $39.99 on newegg and it arrived today. I just opened the box, the board build quality is quite good. I especially like the keycap (nice font) and cable (nylon wrapped).
It is a clicky, tactile mechanical switch keyboard and I love it. I am not very experienced with keyboards yet, but based on the diagram on the manual, it looks like a Alps. I will post some pictures a bit later.
white alps or black alps?
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First time pulled a keycap, used brutal force (my puller is on order), just for you. :-)
It is BLACK. I will post pic later tonight.
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First time pulled a keycap, used brutal force (my puller is on order), just for you. :-)
It is BLACK. I will post pic later tonight.
Thanks! :D
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The build quality is quite good, braided USB cable feels nice. The board feels solid and heavy in the hand.
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=313&stc=1&d=1228371521)
Mechanical switch, I took off one keycap, it shows Alps Black switch. It is quite comfortable to type on, comparable to my other Unitek K-258 (suppose to be Alps White).
It also says on the box that the keyboard supports "simultaneous 6-key press". Link to manufacturer (http://www.abs.com/app/Keyboard_M1_details.asp)
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Nice, good score.
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Remember, this is the same keyboard as the Das III (with the different switch option), so you might want to watch out for the issue with the mistyping Das III owners have been having (check out the thread for more info).
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This was the same keyboard as the Filco? And it doesn't have the 12 key rollover of the Das III. Still a Costar board so it might be worth checking for the problem.
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Took the board to the office today, the clicking noise is killing my colleagues. :( Didn't notice the "metal clashing" kind of sound at home before. Damn, may have to take it home, sad.
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I have, probably, the noisiest 'board on earth (Northgate Evolution - White, Clicky Alps), and I just don't care about what my co-workers think. ;) Of course, with the split-ergo layout, I need it for "health reasons" (which is true, though).
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Took the board to the office today, the clicking noise is killing my colleagues. :( Didn't notice the "metal clashing" kind of sound at home before. Damn, may have to take it home, sad.
maybe you can play a radio over it ;)
(or, sing!)
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if it's got alps switches then it's the filco zero, maybe we should make noise at this ABS place to bring over the other ones...
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That's a great idea. Perhaps we can get some Filco-like boards at much more reasonable prices. I wonder if the black switches in this 'board are like the Dell AT-101Ws or if they are more like the white switches I have in my Northgate 'board.
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BTW, looking at the pics on the previous page, the switches do not appear to have "Alps" printed on them, so I wonder if they are "Alps-compatible" switches.
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The Alps switches on my Alps-made board don't have a name on them either.
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The Alps switches on my Alps-made board don't have a name on them either.
I have suspected that was the case for a while now. The switches on my Northgate were stamped Alps and other than the name, they looked identical to the unbranded switches in my MK96, and the switches in both feel so close that I have always believed them to be Alps made. The slight difference in feel and sound is most likely because one is 20 years and the other was bought NIB.
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That's probably the case. Besides us, who takes apart their keyboards to see who made the switches? Alps probably removed the name-stamping part of the process as a cost-cutting measure at some point.
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I did a close look at the switch, there is just a "5" on the upper left corner, a "K" on the upper right corner. There is nothing else printed.
BTW, looking at the pics on the previous page, the switches do not appear to have "Alps" printed on them, so I wonder if they are "Alps-compatible" switches.
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if it's got alps switches then it's the filco zero, maybe we should make noise at this ABS place to bring over the other ones...
Totally a wonderful idea. I will start to request for Filco TenKeyLess from them. :-) I want a ergo/split mechanical keyboard without numpad so bad!
I just went to taobao.com, the largest online auction site in China. Surprisingly there are so many mechanical keyboards there (a search returned more than 400 items). Many are Filco, Plum, Cherry and an interesting one called Aron 109 (http://www.kbdmania.net/board/zboard.php?id=specs&page=1&sn1=&divpage=1&sn=off&ss=on&sc=on&select_arrange=headnum&desc=desc&no=3) made in Korea.
Wondering how come in US there is almost none mechanical keyboard market? Perhaps a good time to plan a trip to China.
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Where's Chloe, the Google Champ, with an obscure web page showing what this switch is? :)
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I did a close look at the switch, there is just a "5" on the upper left corner, a "K" on the upper right corner. There is nothing else printed.
Those numbers could be the only clues to determine wether a switch is a clone or not. That should be added to the switch reference. The Alps original/clone/Strongman issue appears every two weeks and we still don't know the answers. We have to solve this or we will be talking cluelessly about the same issue in years to come.
Alps probably removed the name-stamping part of the process as a cost-cutting measure at some point.
The board I mentioned is from ca. 1990.
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Quote:
Alps probably removed the name-stamping part of the process as a cost-cutting measure at some point.
The board I mentioned is from ca. 1990.
Scratch that...
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I suspect these switches are made by Strong Man (Sheng-chun) now. I posted an article that seemed to be saying as much. They don't have them to buy on any of the ALPS sites.
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I suspect these switches are made by Strong Man (Sheng-chun) now. I posted an article that seemed to be saying as much. They don't have them to buy on any of the ALPS sites.
Chloe, does "sheng chun" actually mean "strong man"?
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alps doesn't always put their stamp on the top surface of the switch. sometimes it's on one of the other sides, or even on the bottom which you can't see unless you remove the switch. some older alps switches don't have the all caps 'ALPS' marking, rather it had their old logo which is a circle with 'Alps' written in cursive inside it, and the logo tends to be very small.
the color of the stems doesn't necessarily guarantee anything, either. my alps glidepoint keyboard has white alps switches which you'd think would mean they're click tactile, but they're not. they're soft tactile (they feel a lot like the black alps on dell keyboards, but without the roughness) with rubber dampers.
i'd buy one of these abs's to see how they feel compared to the alps keyboards i have, but newegg is out of stock.
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Totally a wonderful idea. I will start to request for Filco TenKeyLess from them. :-)
If they would make that in Alps, I would buy one quick as I bought this Topre 86 — the same day it comes out — and I wouldn't care if it had black or white switches.
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Chloe, does "sheng chun" actually mean "strong man"?
I don't know, it could be Google translation. Sometimes it is Chen-shung. On the Strong Man website it says 笙春企業股份有限公司 which means Chun Sheng Enterprise Co., Ltd.
The SMK-85 have Strong Man "ALPS Compatible" switches. Here's the article that mentions the discontinued ALPS:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=cn&u=http://blog.dengzhe.com/article.asp?id=252
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The SMK-85 have Strong Man "ALPS Compatible" switches. Here's the article that mentions the discontinued ALPS:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=cn&u=http://blog.dengzhe.com/article.asp?id=252
Not all of them, here's a pic of my old SMK85:
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1176/1424961118_46fccd06da.jpg)
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Do you know when yours was made? The article said ALPS stopped making the keyboard switches ten years ago. My guess is the SMK-85 began with black ALPS, then switched to Strong Man (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=168) when supplies ran out. It sounds like they had problems making these switches to begin with as some of them didn't click and some stuck.
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I think it's been mentioned somewhere in the forum that that the SMK-85 switched to Strongmans some time ago, but the older versions had Alps. Currently, the ones being made have Strongman switches.
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It also says on the box that the keyboard supports "simultaneous 6-key press".
If you would be so kind, do some testing for us.
Give it a 12-inch rule test. Use a ruler to press the bottom Z-line, and the ~-line when plugged into a usb port. Also, try some 6-key combos.
Then, hopefully you have a USB-to-PS/2 adapter lying around. Use the adapter and give it the ruler.
40 dollars new could be the cheapest n-key rollover keyboard I've ever heard of, even if it isn't a standard retailers price.
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Just did the testing, I think at most it can take 5-key at the same time at the Z-line (I got CVXZ, or M<>?, assuming SHIFT is also included). However, it gives nothing when I tried the ruler on the ~-line.
The keyboard comes with USB connector only, I don't have a PC with PS/2 connector currently.
By the way, I am testing on a Macbook Air, guess it shouldn't matter.
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By the way, I am testing on a Macbook Air, guess it shouldn't matter.
Is it the new or the old one? And is it your daily driver/only computer?
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The Macbook Air is the old model (bought back in August 2008). It is my secondary machine (carrying between work and home), my primary machine is a Dell XPS running Ubuntu. I don't think it has a PS/2 connector either, should I try on it too?
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I don't think it has a PS/2 connector either, should I try on it too?
In that case, no. The USB connection will give the smae results.
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In that case, no. The USB connection will give the smae results.
It looks like you're having some rollover issues.:D
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:rolleyes:
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Uh oh, time to get another keyboard. :p
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Newegg finally has these in stock again for $70.
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if these have black alps, why not get the $10 shipped NIB at101w instead?
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Well, the Abs is prettier, but, true the Dell is cheaper. That, and the Dells have real Alps. I am sure the Abs has 3-party Alps-compatible switches.
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I may get one of these if the Compaq 'board doesn't work out. Other than the Abs logo, it is identical to the Filco, and it has my favorite version of Alps. Also, it has a braided cable with a gold-plated connector for the epic win!
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Not to spam the thread, but I bet you could take that weak-a*s Abs logo off with some Acetone.
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if these have black alps, why not get the $10 shipped NIB at101w instead?
-Warranty
-BRAND NEW
-USB Connector (don't have to use an adapter)
-smaller footprint
-better styling
-pretty much the same as a more expensive Filco
-braided cable
if you subscribe to the NewEgg newsletter they occasionally give coupon codes lowering the cost even further.
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-Warranty
-BRAND NEW
-USB Connector (don't have to use an adapter)
-smaller footprint
-better styling
-pretty much the same as a more expensive Filco
-braided cable
if you subscribe to the NewEgg newsletter they occasionally give coupon codes lowering the cost even further.
But other than all that, yeah, just save the $60 and go with the Dell.
I might pick one of these up if I end up deciding that black Alps are my favorites.
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another reason to get this board would be to swap out the alps black springs and click leafs with ones from an old alps white board. Then you'd basically have the filco with white alps for 60 bucks.
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That would save about $100 over buying a Filco Zero. Exact same build quality with some extra perks and actual warranty and support that is US based.
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another reason to get this board would be to swap out the alps black springs and click leafs with ones from an old alps white board. Then you'd basically have the filco with white alps for 60 bucks.
As far as I can see ( through information and pictures posted to this forum ), ABS board comes with simplified I (http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/alps_sw2.html#simplified I) while Filco Zero comes with XM switches which belongs to Simplified II (http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/alps_sw2.html#simplified II) in my classification.
switch base of Simplified I plus real alps spring and click leaf won't make XM.
I'm bit puzzled with this variation of Zero (http://www.diatec.co.jp/shop/det.php?prod_c=532) if it uses real ALPS black/tactile or simplified I/click.
In my opinion, the best way to upgrade fake/simplified alps board is swapping whole modules to genuine alps.
example 1 (http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/costar_2101.html)
example 2 (http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/mck-89s_PII.html)
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"simplified I" looks pretty complicated, lol.
Simplified II is what the mk96 had.
Simplified II in turn comes with two types of click leaves ("narrow" and "broad") which are incompatible with each other (double slot vs single slot in the upper housing module). So for instance the mk96 had narrow leaves, the dell at101w has broad leaves. They cant be interchanged.
Its all very confusing.
In my opinion, the best way to upgrade fake/simplified alps board is swapping whole modules to genuine alps
if by 'swapping' you mean soldering, thats probably not for me ;)
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"simplified I" looks pretty complicated, lol.
not so complicated. the others ( except IIss ) are much complicated.
Simplified II is what the mk96 had.
Simplified II in turn comes with two types of click leaves ("narrow" and "broad") which are incompatible with each other (double slot vs single slot in the upper housing module). So for instance the mk96 had narrow leaves, the dell at101w has broad leaves. They cant be interchanged.
Its all very confusing.
Simplified II and IIss both use same narrow click leaf. Difference between II and IIss is the form of contact plate which locates beside a stem.
Base block of II and IV are almost same at a glance. main difference is that II comes with small click leaf while IV comes with broad click leaf like genuine alps.
You might misunderstood my page because of faulty auto translation
All and all, these are useless info for daily usage of keyboards. but you have any thought of changing internal parts of alps-ish switches, then you need to know.
By swapping internal parts among simplified/fake switches, you may get some improvement but you can't get no satisfaction.
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but you can't get no satisfaction.
story of my life ;)
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story of my life ;)
Sucks to be you! :D
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Sucks to be you! :D
;) I try and I try and I try and I try.
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example 1 (http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/costar_2101.html)
example 2 (http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/mck-89s_PII.html)
Nice mods!
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Hello all!
I just bought an ABS M1, and I'm really liking it. However, I want some of the keys to be white (certain ones that I won't list right now).
I'm honestly very new to uncovering the secrets of keyboards, so I was wondering if anyone here can help direct me to where I may be able to find white replacement keys for the ABS?
Thank you!
EDIT: itlnstln helped me out with this. I bought a Macally MK-96 to swap out keys from. Thanks itlnstln!!!
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I received one of these from Newegg today, unfortunately it's going back.
Primary reason being that it does not have 6 key rollover. If I hold down S and X, and then try to press A or D, the third key is completely ignored. I tested the rollover on 2 windows boxes, and 1 linux box, all with the same results.
Other thoughts:
I was expecting it to be at least a little clicky, but it's nearly silent, it feels nice to type on though.
It definately does not work with a PS/2 converter, I tried 2.
It felt pretty solidly constructed, and had some heft to it, I doubt it would be sliding around on the desk too much.
It has a fancy cable, but it's a little short. 2-3 feet longer would've been better.
I may try a white alps Filco next. I'd prefer a 104, but the tenkeyless seem to be more readily available. Or maybe a black alps Filco, I didn't find the lack of click nearly as annoying as I'd have thought it would be.
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I may try a white alps Filco next. I'd prefer a 104, but the tenkeyless seem to be more readily available. Or maybe a black alps Filco, I didn't find the lack of click nearly as annoying as I'd have thought it would be.
Make sure you get a Filco that specifies N-Key rollover. Keep in mind, the same OEM makes both the Filco and the ABS (they pretty much identical).
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Make sure you get a Filco that specifies N-Key rollover.
I'm most likely going to try a FKBN104M/EB. I haven't had a chance to use brown cherries, but I figure if I don't appreciate them, then I can probably resell it to someone. If it existed I'd go for a FKBN104Z/EB since I'm slightly more sure I'll like fake Alps. Also I'd prefer a white/tan keyboard, but boards with N key rollover, and a US layoutseem to only come in black/dark brown from Filco.
Back to the M1. Has anyone here used an M1 that is capable of reporting QWEASD, or ASDZXC, or similar combinations? I'm loathe to pay a restocking fee if I don't have to. And other than the lack of 6-key rollover I do like the M1, so I'm wondering if it's worth doing a swap instead of a return.
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seem to only come in black/dark brown from Filco.
Sorry to go OT a bit, but where have you seen a brown Filco? I've wanted a dark brown keyboard for a long time. ;) Thanks!
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Sorry to go OT a bit, but where have you seen a brown Filco? I've wanted a dark brown keyboard for a long time. ;) Thanks!
I was just referring to the black one(s), due to the texturing they can appear a little bit dark brownish depending on the light.