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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Pyksel on Fri, 16 August 2013, 09:43:53
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I've been searching for a replacement to my MS Natural Elite ergonomic for quite some time and I've just recently come to grips with the opinion that the chance for Microsoft to release a mechanical version of the original classic natural elite, just isn't going to happen any time soon. With that being said, I am looking for a solid mechanical keyboard with the following parameters in the hopes that you fine folks here can help point me in the right direction!
Tenkeyless (not mini or compact, just a 104 key full size with the ten key lopped off would be nice)
Cherry MX Brown switches
USB port / passthrough (nice to have)
Braided usb cable
Modifiers = 1.5 x 1 x 1.5 (prefer left side but both sides are fine)
Backlighting (optional)
I know that the left side modifiers throw a wrench in my search results but I think the transition from the split design of the MS Natural with the massive modifier keys over to something that isn't split with those dimensions might be a little easier to become acclimated with.
I did find the Razer Black Widow Tournament Stealth edition is one option (lacks the usb passthrough and backlighting) but I have not been impressed with Razer QC. I would definitely prefer something from Ducky, CM, Filco, etc.
Thanks in advance!
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You want the 1.5x-1x-1.5x *just* on the left side?
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thats going to be a hard find because most of the tenkeyless keyboards are made by the same OEMs.
ione which doesn't have the greatest track record in the world is the only one that i know of that manufactures 1.5 x 1 x 1.5 mod setup
costar uses 1.25 x 1.25 x 1.25
as far as usb passthrough goes, not many keyboards implement it and the only ones that i've seen with a true passthrough have been tenkeys (BW 2013, k90).
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You want the 1.5x-1x-1.5x *just* on the left side?
Modified original request. I would like at least the left side to be those dimensions. If both sides are that size, that is perfect.
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thats going to be a hard find because most of the tenkeyless keyboards are made by the same OEMs.
ione which doesn't have the greatest track record in the world is the only one that i know of that manufactures 1.5 x 1 x 1.5 mod setup
costar uses 1.25 x 1.25 x 1.25
as far as usb passthrough goes, not many keyboards implement it and the only ones that i've seen with a true passthrough have been tenkeys (BW 2013, k90).
The USB passthrough isn't required, but it would be nice to have.
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All of your requirements, especially with regard to the weird modifier sizes lead you to a custom keyboard. KMAC has 1.5x, 1x, 1.5x. You can get KMAC with LEDs, but they're pretty expensive. If you're flexible on switches, you could get a Corsair Vengeance K65 with MX Reds and no backlights.
If you're more flexible on the modifiers, then that opens up more options for you. You could get a Keycool 87 that would fit most of your needs, but has all 1.25x mods.
Edit: My suggestion is to be a bit more flexible and get a QFR with browns. They're great keyboards. You'll be happy with it. They have detachable "braided" usb cables and are near Filco quality especially if you replace the horrid keycaps. I actually miss my QFR. I think I may buy another one.
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Qpad mk-50 is the only cheap stock 1.5x1x1.5 I can think of apart from blackwidow and the old cherry keyboards
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I had a QF stealth and ended up giving it to my fiancee. I'm so used to the split, tented style of the MS Natural Elite that using "alt" as a primary modifier became uncomfortable when using other keyboards. MS uses 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 on the modifiers (left side).
I'm not really looking for cheap stock per say, I'm more interested in availability at this point. I "might" be able to compromise with 1.25 x 1 x 1.25 but I'd have to test it out and see.
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I had a QF stealth and ended up giving it to my fiancee. I'm so used to the split, tented style of the MS Natural Elite that using "alt" as a primary modifier became uncomfortable when using other keyboards. MS uses 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 on the modifiers (left side).
I'm not really looking for cheap stock per say, I'm more interested in availability at this point. I "might" be able to compromise with 1.25 x 1 x 1.25 but I'd have to test it out and see.
By cheap I mean not like +400 dollars for kmacs and ****. But for 1.25x1.25x1.25 the world is your oyster. Although a tenkeyless realforce is something to chew on as well.
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I had a QF stealth and ended up giving it to my fiancee. I'm so used to the split, tented style of the MS Natural Elite that using "alt" as a primary modifier became uncomfortable when using other keyboards. MS uses 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 on the modifiers (left side).
I'm not really looking for cheap stock per say, I'm more interested in availability at this point. I "might" be able to compromise with 1.25 x 1 x 1.25 but I'd have to test it out and see.
By cheap I mean not like +400 dollars for kmacs and ****. But for 1.25x1.25x1.25 the world is your oyster. Although a tenkeyless realforce is something to chew on as well.
Realforce use Topre Capacitive switches right? Unfortunately I have no experience with those types of switches.
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You're not going to find a board if you're determined to not spend $400 and want 1.5x-1x-1.5x mods. Sorry.
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I had a QF stealth and ended up giving it to my fiancee. I'm so used to the split, tented style of the MS Natural Elite that using "alt" as a primary modifier became uncomfortable when using other keyboards. MS uses 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 on the modifiers (left side).
I'm not really looking for cheap stock per say, I'm more interested in availability at this point. I "might" be able to compromise with 1.25 x 1 x 1.25 but I'd have to test it out and see.
By cheap I mean not like +400 dollars for kmacs and ****. But for 1.25x1.25x1.25 the world is your oyster. Although a tenkeyless realforce is something to chew on as well.
Realforce use Topre Capacitive switches right? Unfortunately I have no experience with those types of switches.
Topre is kind of similar to browns and it has the mods you're looking for. Unfortunately, they are bit more expensive than a cherry equivalent but the build quality is superb and you get pbt dyesub caps.
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Build a Phantom.
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You're not going to find a board if you're determined to not spend $400 and want 1.5x-1x-1.5x mods. Sorry.
I have no issue with spending that kind of money for I never set a budget in my original post. I just wanted to find out from the pros here what's available. Thanks!! =)
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If the only reason why you want those particular modifiers is to have one less thing to become accustomed to when switching to a differently shaped keyboard, that will probably be the least of your worries.
If we are willing to go for standard 1.25x modifiers you will have a considerably larger range of much cheaper keyboards to choose from.
The time has come to either spend $400, or to sacrifice one or two of your requirements :)
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For all keyboards with Windows keys, the difference in feel between 1.5 and 1.25 mods is minuscule. If you press the keycaps in the centres, the offset difference is 1/8 key.
The difference is important only if you plan to change the keycaps on it.
Most modern sets have 1.25u modifiers with a 6.25u centre-stemmed Space Bar and centre-stemmed Caps Lock key that will fit almost all new keyboards with 1.25u modifiers.
Most vintage Cherry sets have 1.5u modifiers, but finding matching Space Bars and Caps Lock keys that fit on modern keyboards can be difficult. Keyboards without Windows keys have 7u Space Bars, but modern keyboards with Windows keys have 6u Space bars. Cherry have made some keyboards with 6u Space Bars, but the key stem is not in the centre. Signature Plastics has made keycaps that fit both types of keyboards.
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I have become so accustomed to the left-alt key being between x & c, when attempting to use a new layout I find that I start to experience discomfort in my thumb, palm of my hand. The difference in feel (for me) is better than miniscule but make no mistake, I do appreciate the feedback. Granted I believe part of the challenge is around general layout and less key size, I was just trying to find good middle ground or a solid place to start.
I know that if I relax my requirements I can certainly open up options and if I did that I wouldn't have had to come here and ask for help. =)
If I had the option for a split, tented, mechanical ergo similar to the MS Natural Elite, I'd be all over it but I'm not seeing anything that's readily available.
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So we've given you what's available that fits your requirements. Now it's up to you to choose?
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sorry for being slightly off topic.... i was wondering about why people seem to dislike Leopold tenkeyless boards is it only the lack of ability to use aftermarket "hud liberators" etc or are they inferior because of sloppy soldering or something else?
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sorry for being slightly off topic.... i was wondering about why people seem to dislike Leopold tenkeyless boards is it only the lack of ability to use aftermarket "hud liberators" etc or are they inferior because of sloppy soldering or something else?
availability of the 700r is a problem
price of the 200r is also a problem (also case style)
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I have become so accustomed to the left-alt key being between x & c, when attempting to use a new layout I find that I start to experience discomfort in my thumb, palm of my hand. The difference in feel (for me) is better than miniscule but make no mistake, I do appreciate the feedback. Granted I believe part of the challenge is around general layout and less key size, I was just trying to find good middle ground or a solid place to start.
I know that if I relax my requirements I can certainly open up options and if I did that I wouldn't have had to come here and ask for help. =)
If I had the option for a split, tented, mechanical ergo similar to the MS Natural Elite, I'd be all over it but I'm not seeing anything that's readily available.
Get a Japanese layout keyboard and do a few modifications to it, and you will have an Alt-key between the X and C for less than $200 depending on which keyboard you choose. Or drop the tenkeyless requirement and get a Das Keyboard Professional.
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I say drop tenkeyless requirement then get a Max Keyboard http://www.maxkeyboard.com/max-keyboard-nighthawk-x8-blue-backlit-mechanical-keyboard.html
Unless you must have tenkeyless then it will be hard to fulfil the other requirements (1.5 mod, MX Brown, USB Hub... etc).
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If you don't have a lot of budget, QFR is my vote. It's one of the major layouts, easy to upgrade the case, plate and even PCB later if you'd like to. You can get it in browns, but misses out on passthrough and mod size.
I picked up a QFR here on the forums, and without any upgrades, I was thoroughly impressed by it. I had expected that I would be disappointed and feel the need to upgrade immediately, but the only thing that needed changing from the get-go was the keycaps. There's definitely room for improvements, but at that price point, there's room in the budget for upgrades as well.