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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: asdf on Tue, 11 November 2008, 20:21:51
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Does anyone have the KeyTronic E03600P2 or any KeyTronic keyboards? I would like to know if they are worth buying and please post some pictures if you don't mind. :P
Are they similar to the Das keyboards?
Thank you.
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Does anyone have the KeyTronic E03600P2 or any KeyTronic keyboards? I would like to know if they are worth buying and please post some pictures if you don't mind. :P
Are they similar to the Das keyboards?
Thank you.
i have one of these keytronic keyboards, they're okay as far as rubber dome keyboards go.
'worth' is a subjective thing, but for the price of one of these new keytronics you can get yourself a nice model m or some other keyboard that most here would agree they'd rather have than it.
i believe the first das keyboard was essentially a rebadged keytronic that they forgot to print letters on.
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Does it feel good to type on them? Also the model I want is only 30 dollars. How much do Model M cost?
p.s. Can you give a quick mini review of your keytronic keyboard?
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Does it feel good to type on them? Also the model I want is only 30 dollars. How much do Model M cost?
p.s. Can you give a quick mini review of your keytronic keyboard?
i have the e03601p1 which is beige and has an l-shaped enter key. the e03600p2 is black and has a standard sized enter key. other than that, they're the same keyboard.
there's really not a whole lot to say, it's a rubber dome keyboard with weighted keys (if you google 'keytronic ergo technology' you'll find a link to a diagram which shows the weights for the keys). the rubber domes are tactile, so they don't simply feel like mush all the way down the stroke, there's a point at which they buckle. the keys make a little bit of noise when they bottom out. all in all, not an entirely horrible keyboard to type on, but i can't get a good typing rhythm on it. the keyboard itself is made fairly well, it's not quite as light as other rubber dome membrane keyboards.
i would not pay $30 for this keyboard. it wouldn't be a bad deal if it were in the $5-10 range (i got mine for free), but again, for $30 you could get a nice clean model m from ebay.
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My aunt has a Keytronic. I will check the model number tonight when I will be there to pickup my daughter. It one of the best rubber domes I've tried. It certainly is not a Topre board, but the feeling is quite good actually. Given a choice between a mechanical keyboard and that Keytronic, I would pick the mechanical keyboard, but give a choice between the Keytronic and other rubber domes keyboards, I would pick the Keytronic.
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Necroooo thread.
I just got a Keytronic Designer P2 and I think it's fake or something. Some of the keys feel like there's too much friction, and not in an ergo/force difference way but a they dont fit way, and the board just has a cheap hollow feel to it. I've used a keytronic before and I recall it being more solid.
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well the designer is pretty much hollow lol and it does have lots of flex but mine is nice, I'm using it now actually.
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well the designer is pretty much hollow lol and it does have lots of flex but mine is nice, I'm using it now actually.
Yeah it's probably fine. Does your Shift key have more resistance if you dont hit it dead center? I guess it's just a stabilizer issue. I really wanted to like this board. This of course is an irrational sentiment because you shouldn't 'want' to like a product.
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mine seems fine wherever I hit it, caps lock was just bein funky for a second a bit ago but other than that it's pretty smooth.
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Odd that this topic is on geekhack tonight, as I typed on my first keytronic designer board at work today, and it was underwhelming... I did like the "embossed" keycaps, but other than that, it felt like cheap flimsy crap. The only reason I even bothered with it was that from the side, the shape of the board caught my eye, it was obviously not a Dell or HP board like I'm used to seeing all over the place at work. It has a unique curve, most apparent from a profile view. Anyway, nothing too special, but I'm sure it beats a Dell any day.
(http://www.keytronic.com/Home/products/pictures/designer.gif)
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Rubber domes are rubber domes. Arguing as to whether one is better than the other is about as futile as arguing whether black label Model Ms were better than blue label ones
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Rubber domes are rubber domes. Arguing as to whether one is better than the other is about as futile as arguing whether black label Model Ms were better than blue label ones
This is generally correct.
However I think the biggest problem is people focus on the rubber domes themselves, when the slider design, amount of travel and flexibility of the keyboard are ultimately more important factors in deciding if it's any good or not.
The rubber domes play a big role, but not bigger than those I'd say.
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The sliders do improve things somewhat, but it's still the same thing underneath it all. At the end of the day, all the disadvantages of rubber domes tend to lie within the rubber domes themselves - the mushiness, the fact that they get sticky and mushier as time goes on, the reliability etc.
The Topre largely avoids this, but as I've probably said before, a Model M probably has more in common with a regular rubber dome keyboard than a Topre does.
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I just got an entire box of old and probably well used E03623s, and I have to say I'm quite impressed. Yes, they have a very distinctive cheap, hollow, plasticy feeling. But at the same time, they're really, really nice to type on. Soft, but very precise tactility and not the slightest hint of friction.
Btw, if anybody wants some nice, theft-proof office boards for free, pm me. They're German layout.
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However I think the biggest problem is people focus on the rubber domes themselves, when the slider design, amount of travel and flexibility of the keyboard are ultimately more important factors in deciding if it's any good or not.
Having personal distaste for one aspect of the technology leads people to claim that they're all alike, I think. There's very real variety amongst rubber dome boards. The difference between my Keytronic and the rubber dome Cherry G83 I'm typing on now is large enough to label them "incomparable." (at least on anything more than a basic level)
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There's very real variety amongst rubber dome boards.
Absolutely. I wouldn't swap, say, my trusty old BTC 5131C for the phenomenal €4.99 board I tried today. Ugh. That thing had so much friction the key would barely come back up, and of course it was a featherweight, too.
I think it boils down to:
1. friction that should ideally remain low over the board's lifetime, even with the keys hit at an angle (and hopefully all the larger keys are stabilized properly...)
2. domes that should ideally retain their springiness as much as possible
3. various other potential build issues that may eventually stop keys from registering properly
From this it should be obvious that rubber dome boards can be all over the map.
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I had to google the BTC. Nifty.
I think the dome itself has less of an impact on the typing experience than a mechanical switch has on its board. It's a smaller part of the overall equation. Hold a blue cherry switch in one hand, I mean just a naked switch, and a black alps in the other and there's not gonna be a question which is which, blindfolded. Do the same with a dome removed from the i-Rocks KR-6820 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823204015&cm_re=irocks-_-23-204-015-_-Product) in one hand and one from a Chester Creek Funkyboard (http://www.chestercreek.com/FunKeyBoardMouse.html) in the other and they're just gonna feel like two rubber domes, with slight difference in pressure. Doubtful the two keyboards are similar in typing experience.
Actually I kinda want that Funkeyboard.
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I had to google the BTC. Nifty.
I think the dome itself has less of an impact on the typing experience than a mechanical switch has on its board. It's a smaller part of the overall equation. Hold a blue cherry switch in one hand, I mean just a naked switch, and a black alps in the other and there's not gonna be a question which is which, blindfolded. Do the same with a dome removed from the i-Rocks KR-6820 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823204015&cm_re=irocks-_-23-204-015-_-Product) in one hand and one from a Chester Creek Funkyboard (http://www.chestercreek.com/FunKeyBoardMouse.html) in the other and they're just gonna feel like two rubber domes, with slight difference in pressure. Doubtful the two keyboards are similar in typing experience.
Actually I kinda want that Funkeyboard.
The mouse with the FunKeyBoard is a Kensington OEM, or at least the housing is.
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I can't believe those crooks are charging $50 for that "Fun keyboard".
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I had to google the BTC. Nifty.
I think the dome itself has less of an impact on the typing experience than a mechanical switch has on its board. It's a smaller part of the overall equation. Hold a blue cherry switch in one hand, I mean just a naked switch, and a black alps in the other and there's not gonna be a question which is which, blindfolded. Do the same with a dome removed from the i-Rocks KR-6820 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823204015&cm_re=irocks-_-23-204-015-_-Product) in one hand and one from a Chester Creek Funkyboard (http://www.chestercreek.com/FunKeyBoardMouse.html) in the other and they're just gonna feel like two rubber domes, with slight difference in pressure. Doubtful the two keyboards are similar in typing experience.
Actually I kinda want that Funkeyboard.
While I understand what you're saying, the switches are probably not as identifiable if you take away the shape of the stem or casing as an indicator to the touch. Because someone can identify the way a + shape feels next to a □ shape doesn't mean they could identify the way it feels to actuate the switch of all other clues were taken away.
Let's say you had 4 individual switches, a clicky ALPS, a blue Cherry, an NMB, and an IBM buckling spring. Each is presented with identical keycaps except for the mounting point to the stem (which should stay hidden under the cap for this hypothetical test). The bodies of the switches are all enclosed in a small plastic box of the same dimensions made from the same materials to hide their shape/appearance. Externally without actuation all would appear identical. I'd guess that as few as 5-7 people on this forum would be able to correctly identify all four switches from actuation of the single sample switches alone.
This would actually be a fun thing to try out, but very few of us actually hang out together, and many are on different continents... nonetheless, I think it would prove an even larger point, which is that an individual switch separate from the board assembly, and without your hands in their normal typing positions is going to be much less an influence on the "feel" of the board than many of us like to believe.
Once you start throwing in factors like, age of the switch (ALPS, especially), condition of the springs, weight and thickness of the key caps, mounting style (if mounted to PCB, then flexibility/rigidity of PCB through even reinforcement by the case), missing rivets (IBM), size of the key cap surface, layout, weight of the case, stabilizer style and condition, etc... and the whole thing becomes a mess. There are far too many variables in a board to simply label one as quality and one as junk based solely on the mechanism used to actuate the key stroke.
I'd also bet that those same 5-7 that WOULD be able to identify all four mechanical switches could quite easily learn the "feel" of the rubber domes of the i-Rocks and the Funkeyboard in a similarly set up experiment if they were given as much exposure and experience with those boards/domes as they've had with mechanical switches.
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I'd also bet that those same 5-7 that WOULD be able to identify all four mechanical switches could quite easily learn the "feel" of the rubber domes of the i-Rocks and the Funkeyboard in a similarly set up experiment if they were given as much exposure and experience with those boards/domes as they've had with mechanical switches.
Good point. I've been playing with swapping the domes between cheap keyboards (unsuccessfully so far, mostly due to my own fumbling), and I was able to grab a rubber dome sheet and know which it was. At one point I found myself carefully slicing out the domes and attempting to glue them to each contact point on another keyboard's membrane. I had a moment of reflection, and stopped before depression set in.
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imho rubber domes are not so alike. some of them are quite good, almost on-par with mechanicals.
There are engineer-types that can explain this better, but occasionally domes will have umm.. lower.. contact points, sometimes with cushions, and the result is a rubber dome that bottoms out with like, 1mm of travel left.
I don't think keytronic ever did this... they just made really comfortable, smooth sliders. Old keytronics are way better than newer models, by the way.
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Old keytronics are way better than newer models, by the way.
Given their current price tags, I'm not surprised. Fits well with the trend of diminishing keyboard quality in general.
BTC 5131C: Mid-90s rubber dome, sliders, metal back, heavy lasered lettering with pretty good contrast (not the faint kind you see so often), individual domes I think. Should be the variety with graphite-coated domes. Medium force, very responsive with low friction. Not sure what the non-OEM equivalents' model numbers were, maybe 5140.