geekhack
geekhack Community => Ergonomics => Topic started by: kittykatmax on Sat, 17 August 2013, 11:24:59
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Massdrop is offering another ErgoDox group buy and it's down to $199 base price. For an extra $49 they offer full assembly, which is a must for me. I have no desire to spend hundreds on a kit that I could screw up because I don't know how (nor do I wish to learn) to solder. Would love some help knowing what I'd be getting into if I join the buy.
- They aren't offering Cherry MX Browns (which I love), just blues, blacks, reds and clears. I have fairly small hands, mild to moderate arthritis, and weak pinky fingers that can sometimes be a little shaky (I have some nerve damage). Since I know that I love browns, reds seem the logical choice. Thoughts? I have the WASD switch sample kit, which was helpful for definitively ruling out clears. I think blacks would require too much actuation force, and I already know I prefer browns to blues, but I can't really tell how big a difference there is between reds and browns. Too much? I'd be using this keyboard to play a ton of WoW and then the usual stuff (Word, Excel, e-mail, web).
- If I buy a fully assembled ErgoDox, what more do I have to do? I'm not a programmer, so how hard is it to configure and apply layouts? Massdrop has an ErgoDox layout configurator that looks simple - how well does it work?
- The only option is to buy a blank PBT DSA set of keys and I LIKE labels on my keys. How hard/expensive would it be to locate and buy compatible PBT keys? I really do not like the WASD ABS keycaps.
- My case choices are acrylic and anodized aluminum. I'm thinking acrylic but are there any downsides?
- I was thinking classic over full hand. Pros/cons? EDIT: I will want to tent it (huge fan of the old Keytronic FlexPro despite its flaws), so I guess full hand would be smarter? Just seems so darn huge.
If there's anything else I'm not thinking of that would be a factor in deciding whether to go for this, please chime in!
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I don't think you would have any trouble using the layout configurator. I worried about the same thing and didn't have a problem. If you do, there are a lot of helpful people here that would be glad to help you through it.
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Also, I've never used browns or clears, but I understand they're more similar than browns and reds.
I'd look into clears and see if it'd be something you're interested in.
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I don't think you would have any trouble using the layout configurator. I worried about the same thing and didn't have a problem. If you do, there are a lot of helpful people here that would be glad to help you through it.
Thanks, I'm pretty new here, but I saw right away what an amazing community this is.
BTW, I was looking at your gorgeous mahogany ErgoDox mod (coincidentally just a minute ago). You, sir, are an artist! /bows in worship
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Also, I've never used browns or clears, but I understand they're more similar than browns and reds.
I'd look into clears and see if it'd be something you're interested in.
As stated in my post, I don't like clears - hate the feel, and they have a higher actuation force than browns. With my messed up hands, not really the ideal choice.
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I would recommend Reds if you like Browns. You will like them better than Clears or Blacks. Blues may feel similar to Browns, but I can't abide that high-pitched clicking.
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Reds and browns are very similar as far as force goes. Browns have a small bump, while reds have none at all.
I would recommend going for reds. Blues have a large bump and click, which may cause actuation to be hard for you. Clears and blacks both use heavier springs, so that rules them out aswell.
The problem with sourcing keys for the ergodox is that it has a very odd layout. The DSA family has no profile, so it's easy to make them work nicely with the ergodox layout. The only other set that would work well is the Retro DSA set that comes from a group buy. You should put up a classified if you want them, since no store sells them (unless techkeys.us has some in stock still)
I haven't owned an ergodox, but the early aluminium cases were messy and hard to assemble. The acrylic cases seemed far more tidy. The only disadvantage I see to acrylic is that it's more flimsy, however this isn't necessarily a bad thing. Some people like some flex in their keyboard :)
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I would recommend Reds if you like Browns. You will like them better than Clears or Blacks. Blues may feel similar to Browns, but I can't abide that high-pitched clicking.
Yeah, I don't HATE blues, but I enjoy them so much less than browns - sound or no sound.
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The flexibility of the ErgoDox's layout is its curse when it comes to keycap legends. You could find a donor cherry board and harvest the primary caps from it but you will likely be unable to get modifiers that match the 1.5x and 2x spaces. I have toyed with the possibility of labeling the modifiers with decals on the front sides of the caps but realized that in the time it took to do that I could more easily just memorize the layout. Besides, having a separated keyboard doesn't lend itself to watching the keys anyways.
Thanks for the complement, I sure like typing on it and am sure you will like yours too.
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I haven't owned an ergodox, but the early aluminium cases were messy and hard to assemble. The acrylic cases seemed far more tidy. The only disadvantage I see to acrylic is that it's more flimsy, however this isn't necessarily a bad thing. Some people like some flex in their keyboard :)
Another criticism I've heard about the acrylic is that it's a dust magnet. Also,some may not like the enthusiast look of the see through design. I think Massdrop would be wise to publish pictures of the aluminum top-plate. If its like the last run, there will be many unhappy buyers who weren't prepared for the additional finish work required to make the aluminum look good. . I think they said that they would be anodized, which will take care of the scratching issue, but if they need additional cleaning up that would remove the anodization.
Overall Massdrop has done an excellent job.
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reds would be closest to browns in terms of actuation, although they are definitely a little more 'floaty' in comparison. Prepare for some period of adjustments when you go red for the first time; while the tactile bump in browns is small enough to be almost barely noticeable, it can be felt when you switch to reds. But they are close enough.
legends on the ergodox are mostly for aesthetics after the initial learning period; but if you like legends, you could probably get a normal labelled keyset from almost anywhere - and get blanks for the 1.5x and 2x modifiers from keycaps direct. Use DSA. Its a profile mismatch, but as one poster above have mentioned - it's almost impossible to get a full set of legended keycaps for the ergodox. The DSA retro set could cover most of it - but I believe the set is rather scarce at the moment - even more so for the sets that have every cap for the ergodox.
I don't really have a problem with the acrylic (in terms of durability) - and contrary to expectations - there isn't any flex to the acrylic when the keyboard is assembled (actually the middle 3 layers are thick enough by itself to be rather hardy, so no worries there). But I was careless while making some adjustments to mine during assembly, and I had a small section break off from that mistake. Not gonna happen if you're getting a fully assembled kit and aren't going to open it up again.
Qn: Is there going to be a full alu case option this time? I thought they were simply offering a top plate only for the anodised aluminium. As kurplop mentioned the first round aluminium was so bad that I'd be wary to get it without some sample pictures.
That said, the clear acrylic doesn't hold up well, to dirt, scratches, or even dust. Not an issue unless you're particular about the aesthetics of your keyboard. I didn't like it much, so I vinyled mine at first, then lasered another set instead later to replace the clear top layers.
For tenting, I'd always recommend fullhand.
I agree with kurplop though, massdrop had been extremely pleasant to deal with overall.
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i would NOT get reds and def not blacks. you say you have nerve damage? and arthritis? don't mess it up by getting NON tactile keys like reds and blacks, you "might" bottom out more. This has been my experience, but i'm also a very tactile typer.
in fact i have ergo-whites
the white keys that you hate, but with a brown spring (for a more tactile bump w/o the added force).
imo, if you have no other option, such as you can't change the keys? then just get blues.
here's why
with blues are browns but with sound
blues have the same spring (just about) as browns
you can probably find just/only the brown stems so that you can swap the blues for browns later on.
you will have to do this yourself, you'll probably have to make a specialized tool to take apart the cherry keys since you won't de-solder them, a few were made in the diy section, search and see.
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If you really want to have Browns and don't mind paying some extra due to the shortages, you can always buy some caps from some forum members. I just sent payment to The_Ed for a set of Brown switches, though I did pay more than the price on massdrop. There is also a group buy on DT (don't know if I can post a link but here it is): http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/cherry-mx-taking-pre-orders-t2760.html.
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My suggestion for your fingers would be to get it with the clears and buy the 62g springs from Orginative ($10.00). Ergoclears are nice and the 62g is probably the lightness you would enjoy. I am thinking about going this route with the ergoclears as well getting it fully assembled and just changing the switches since there is no plate to worry about desoldering to mod the switches...I would love to lube the switches too, but as I am going back to school soon...I will have no time to spend lubing each individual switch. I love that it is 199.00, but with adding everything all together including assembly and the caps it comes to over $280. I feel like I'm buying a Topre board.