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geekhack Projects => Making Stuff Together! => Topic started by: pixel5 on Fri, 23 August 2013, 21:06:58

Title: Soldering...did I just waste $50?
Post by: pixel5 on Fri, 23 August 2013, 21:06:58
I bought a soldering iron, a vacuum tool, and a bunch of LEDs to put in my poker II.

3 hours, two burned hands, and a single installed LED later, here I am.

As soon as I heat the solder on the board (the presoldered crap I am trying to remove), it falls through the holes. No matter how quickly I try to vacuum it out with the vacuum tool, nothing works. So now I have 3 or 4 switches with unreachable solder in the terminals. I have no idea what to do. I've watched countless videos on how to do this and I feel like I'm doing the exact things they are but nothing is working.

Is there any hope?
Title: Re: Soldering...did I just waste $50?
Post by: mega on Fri, 23 August 2013, 22:47:59
Try using solder wick.

If you need to use the vacuum, try filling the hole again before retrying. I usually prop the board up on its side, hold the vacuum on one side of the board, and heat it from the other side. Hold it long enough to melt the solder all the way through (2-3 seconds). Make sure the vacuum tool is centered and flat on the pcb with a bit of pressure.

If you still can't get it, melt the solder and try to pull it out a bit at a time with an LED lead or some wire. As a last resort, just push the LED in while heating it, by pushing one lead in a bit at a time.
Title: Re: Soldering...did I just waste $50?
Post by: mega on Fri, 23 August 2013, 23:04:10
I looked at a picture of the switches and realized I misunderstood (I don't have a poker II yet, but its on the way!). A vacuum tool will not work for this, unless it is a heated one which I don't think you got for $50. You need solder wick.
Title: Re: Soldering...did I just waste $50?
Post by: komar007 on Sat, 24 August 2013, 04:47:37
1. Make sure your soldering tip is clean and shiny. You can use a brass sponge or a regular solder sponge. If you use the latter, remember to apply a generous amount of water before using. A wet sponge will thermally shock the tip and help remove oxidation from it. Dirty tip is the number one problem of soldering. It keeps the heat from transferring to the joints.
2. As said by mega, always apply your standard leaded solder to the joint you want to desolder first, and then suck. Apply a large blob.
3. Use a chisel tip and cover the whole joint with your suction tool while still pressing the tip against it. Do not remove the tip from the pad at all.
Title: Re: Soldering...did I just waste $50?
Post by: pixel5 on Sat, 24 August 2013, 23:29:01
Thanks for the replies. I forgot about an old friend of mine who does this kind of stuff as a side job. He was able to get all the solder out for me. Unfortunately, my own efforts screwed up the pads on one of the switches.

We talked about running the LED through that switch anyway and connecting its leads to the leads of an adjacent LED. He was concerned it might fry it, but I did this before to test the colors of my LEDs when they came in the mail. From what I can tell, it wouldn't affect the circuit any differently to do this...am I correct in thinking this?
Title: Re: Soldering...did I just waste $50?
Post by: komar007 on Sun, 25 August 2013, 06:20:21
In general you shouldn't put two LEDs in parallel, because they may shine at a different brightness. If you know they come from the same series, this might work all right though. A different thing is how the keyboard provides power to these LEDs. I don't think you can burn anything by draining twice more power for these LEDs, but everything can happen.
The best way to cope with this is to go by the traces from the pads that are broken and find the closest place where they're exposed (some other pads), and solder wires there. Then use these wires to power the extra LED.
Title: Re: Soldering...did I just waste $50?
Post by: pixel5 on Sun, 25 August 2013, 09:49:02
OKAY, so I think the keyboard sages have shown me mercy for my stupid mistake. See picture:

(http://i.imgur.com/sRMO3Zq.jpg)

The lines drawn show how I would wire these two LEDs. The holes on top are the 'empty' switch locations on the left and right of the left shift key where the stabilizers are...THESE ARE POWERED! HOORAY! So I can wire my screw up and the left-windows key to them.

The left windows key has an LED preinstalled (removed here) and turns on when a certain mode activates, which I've only done once by accident. 1. Does anyone know what this mode is and how it is activated? 2. How can I prevent this mode from activating the LED....OR alternatively, if I were to activate that mode while the LED is being powered simultaneously from the Shift stabilizer pads, would it damage the LED or board? Am I making sense?

The only thing I can think to do to prevent the mode from activating the LED is to strip the pads off that switch like I [accidentally] did to the one beside it...but I'd prefer not to intentionally damage my board. Any suggestions? If I choose to power that LED from the switch it was intended to use, it wont turn on with the rest of the LEDs.
Title: Re: Soldering...did I just waste $50?
Post by: pixel5 on Sun, 25 August 2013, 10:26:16
Oh one more thing... Is there an easy way to remove a single switch from this plate-mounted board? There is blockage in the one I screwed up and I think taking the switch off would make clearing it a lot easier.
Title: Re: Soldering...did I just waste $50?
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 25 August 2013, 10:53:21
it's totally counterintuitive but putting more solder into a joint makes it easier to desolder (it makes sense once you think about it). so does squirting a bit of flux on, as it makes the joint easier to heat.

as far as pulling parts off is concerned, there are two ways. one is heat-based and destructive the other is mechanical and destructive.

1) heat gun or heat plate. basically heat all the joints at once hot enough to melt all the solder and pull. this usually but not always puts plastic parts into glass transition, so you're likely to lose your switches this way.

2) wiggle the crap out of it. you would be amazed what wiggling a part (WITH A HUGE WRENCH IF NEEDED) will accomplish. remember, the part is really only attached to the pcb by a few tiny pieces of metal. metal is prone to fatigue and snapping clean off, especially when it's that thin.

source: wasted childhood
Title: Re: Soldering...did I just waste $50?
Post by: Game Theory on Sun, 25 August 2013, 11:28:54
Quote from: mkawa on Sun, 25 August 2013, 10:53:21
source: wasted childhood

Sounds like this part was useful:)
Title: Re: Soldering...did I just waste $50?
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 25 August 2013, 11:31:20
if you need to destroy things, man, yah, i'm pretty useful.
Title: Re: Soldering...did I just waste $50?
Post by: pixel5 on Mon, 26 August 2013, 08:00:00
So I ended up having to take the pads off the left windows key. I also had to put electrical tape around the holes and poke through it to insulate it further...then I jumped it by connecting it to an empty set of pads from the left shift. The connection isn't totally solid, but I think I did a good enough job for now. I'm going to have to take it apart again later and fix the left-control anyway.

This was my first experience truly soldering something. I messed up by not asking a friend to help me desolder from the beginning, but it has mostly worked out so far.

(http://i.imgur.com/LdXwFVm.jpg)
Title: Re: Soldering...did I just waste $50?
Post by: komar007 on Mon, 26 August 2013, 08:06:22
Congrats!
Buying soldering tools is never a waste;)
Title: Re: Soldering...did I just waste $50?
Post by: pixel5 on Mon, 26 August 2013, 08:30:52
Quote from: komar007 on Mon, 26 August 2013, 08:06:22
Congrats!
Buying soldering tools is never a waste;)

Kind of wish I had spent more money on the iron and gotten something with a holder and temp adjustability. But yeah, it was a pretty satisfying process, aside from the jacked up left control and the 4 burned fingers :D
Title: Re: Soldering...did I just waste $50?
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 26 August 2013, 23:40:10
Quote from: pixel5 on Mon, 26 August 2013, 08:00:00
So I ended up having to take the pads off the left windows key. I also had to put electrical tape around the holes and poke through it to insulate it further...then I jumped it by connecting it to an empty set of pads from the left shift. The connection isn't totally solid, but I think I did a good enough job for now. I'm going to have to take it apart again later and fix the left-control anyway.

This was my first experience truly soldering something. I messed up by not asking a friend to help me desolder from the beginning, but it has mostly worked out so far.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/LdXwFVm.jpg)

the first step in learning to build stuff is to destroy it! (otherwise where do you get the motivation to build anew  :llama:
Title: Re: Soldering...did I just waste $50?
Post by: StrikeEagleCC on Tue, 27 August 2013, 04:28:02
Quote from: pixel5 on Mon, 26 August 2013, 08:30:52
Kind of wish I had spent more money on the iron and gotten something with a holder and temp adjustability.

If you think you may be doing a lot more soldering, you will thank yourself if you get something better. I lived with a various assortment Radio Shack irons for years (I'm embarrassed to admit it now), and have used a few mid-range Wellers at work, but when I got a Hakko FX-888, I realized what I had been missing. You can do as much damage as good with a cheap iron too, so if you decide to upgrade, I'm sure people will have plenty of great recommendations.
Title: Re: Soldering...did I just waste $50?
Post by: pixel5 on Tue, 27 August 2013, 08:53:56
Quote from: mkawa on Mon, 26 August 2013, 23:40:10
Quote from: pixel5 on Mon, 26 August 2013, 08:00:00
So I ended up having to take the pads off the left windows key. I also had to put electrical tape around the holes and poke through it to insulate it further...then I jumped it by connecting it to an empty set of pads from the left shift. The connection isn't totally solid, but I think I did a good enough job for now. I'm going to have to take it apart again later and fix the left-control anyway.

This was my first experience truly soldering something. I messed up by not asking a friend to help me desolder from the beginning, but it has mostly worked out so far.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/LdXwFVm.jpg)

the first step in learning to build stuff is to destroy it! (otherwise where do you get the motivation to build anew  :llama:

It hurts a little more when its a $100 keyboard :D
Title: Re: Soldering...did I just waste $50?
Post by: Thimplum on Tue, 27 August 2013, 11:05:09
Quote from: pixel5 on Tue, 27 August 2013, 08:53:56
Quote from: mkawa on Mon, 26 August 2013, 23:40:10
Quote from: pixel5 on Mon, 26 August 2013, 08:00:00
So I ended up having to take the pads off the left windows key. I also had to put electrical tape around the holes and poke through it to insulate it further...then I jumped it by connecting it to an empty set of pads from the left shift. The connection isn't totally solid, but I think I did a good enough job for now. I'm going to have to take it apart again later and fix the left-control anyway.

This was my first experience truly soldering something. I messed up by not asking a friend to help me desolder from the beginning, but it has mostly worked out so far.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/LdXwFVm.jpg)

the first step in learning to build stuff is to destroy it! (otherwise where do you get the motivation to build anew  :llama:

It hurts a little more when its a $100 keyboard :D

Atleast it wasn't a KMAC.
Title: Re: Soldering...did I just waste $50?
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 27 August 2013, 20:34:14
cptbadass burn
Title: Re: Soldering...did I just waste $50?
Post by: Thimplum on Tue, 27 August 2013, 20:39:28
haha