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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Stevenator21 on Sat, 24 August 2013, 09:49:04
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Hello people of Geek Hack,
I am in the market to get a mechanical keyboard. From all my reading, I thought brown would suit me best. I ordered a Das Keyboard with Cherry MX Brown Switches on eBay for $80. Apparently it is too loud for my parents (They can hear it in the hall way and the room next to my desktop) so I need to get something quieter. I don't want to spend a lot, and I found a really nice keyboard, the CM Storm QuickFire TK and QuickFire Rapid that seems it will suit my needs.
I heard Red was the quietest switch out of all of them, and don't know about o-rings.
My 2 questions are:
A) What is the quietest Combo of switch and o-ring that I can get under $90 with the CM Storm QuickFire TK or Rapid?
B) How much quieter will that be than stock browns?
Thanks!
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Well, reds aren't exactly quiet switches, unless you're a fakir of touch typing
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You can learn not to bottom out when you type which should help. Also if you have linear switches and don't bottom out that will reduce the noise. If you're really set on one of the boards you listed and want to use o-rings or soft landing pads, I wrote a review (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40227.0) on them so you can check out my thoughts there.
The quietest stock mechanical switches I've ever tried are Dampened Cream Alps, which are hard to find, and Matias Quiet switches which are easy to find.
The quietest modded mechanical switch I've ever used is Jailhouse Blues.
Oh and welcome to GH :D
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Oh thanks!
I would love to get the other switches but the problem is I only want to spend $90 Overall
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MX Blacks with o-rings, followed by Jailhouse Blues with a lighter spring. I have 2 keyboards with those switches now--the quietest switches I've experienced to date. My lubed vintage Black keyboard with o-rings is quieter than most rubber domes I've tried.
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Are blacks quieter than reds?
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I really suggest trying to add o-rings first. They cost near nothing and they will significantly lower the sound. Anyway, as long as the switch is not clicky, the only sound come from bottoming on the plate. So even if stiffer switches can make it a little harder to bottom out, if you do bottom out the sound will be the same.
So just get some o-rings and you will see the sound reduction is quite evident, and will probably be enough.
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Are blacks quieter than reds?
In terms of sound, they're the same to me.
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Reds are considered louder than Blacks generally because they are so easy to bottom out (very light springs). Blacks have heavier springs and are more cushiony. But perhaps if you use low profile keycaps (like Cherry profile) and add thin silicone o-rings, Reds will be quiet too.
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Hm that is true, it is way easier to not bottom out on Blacks...you can totally learn to not do so on Reds though. Might take some time to learn though.
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What I am planning on doing is ordering either the QuickFire Rapid or TK and O-rings, then if my mom tells me to be quieter ie. during the night I can try not to bottom out. Are Reds okay for typing, I do a lot more typing than gaming.
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It's going to be a personal decision for you which switch you find more comfortable, but I'd personally recommend Browns. They are light and comfortable (for me anyway). O-rings will help, though I've found that keycaps (material, thickness, and shape) play a significant role in amplifying and changing the sound and even the feel of typing. So you could eventually experiment with different keycaps too (from various group buys here and on the classifieds): thick PBT Cherry profile, for example.
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I have used browns and love them but they are too loud.
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So what would be the best combo of keycaps and o-rings to make reds as silent as possible?
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I think your parents need to get some white noise like a fan or something.
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When the AC came on they couldnt hear it but sometimes its dead silent in the house.
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Are the 40A-L O-Rings from WASD quiet?
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Yeah that's where a nice even sounding oscillating fan would help with that drastically. I'm assuming their main complaint is when they're trying to sleep and all they hear is the uneven sound of you clacking away on your keyboard. I used to sleep in dead silence before I had kids. Now it drives me nuts if there isn't a fan going to isolate the normal odd noises you hear in complete silence.
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O-rings will definitely help. Do you bottom out most of the time when typing? If so, I think you may find Blacks with o-rings to be the right weight and quiet. Linear switches are an adjustment after rubber domes and Browns, as there's no bump, which can be disorienting. But they are quieter than tactile switches.
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Are the 40A-L O-Rings from WASD quiet?
You can get an O-Ring test kit from wasd for around $6 I think. Not sure on the shipping, but it might be good to just buy one of their test kits before you haul off and buy a full set of o-rings. I'd recommend getting that and just trying it out.
Here's a link to their switch sampler kit. It will help in making the decision (if you need to switch to linear versus tactile).
http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/wasd-sampler-kit.html
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You can't get much quieter than with browns, unfortunately. Thick or non-ABS keycaps, lubing the switches and dampeners (I recommend soft-landing pads sold by EliteKeyboards) would help, but it's never going to be anywhere near scissor switches with a skin (see TypeMatrix or those skins for Apple Macbook/Aluminium keyboard).
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Well I would think Reds would be more quiet because there is no click and the O-Rings help with the bottoming out sound.
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Well I would think Reds would be more quiet because there is no click and the O-Rings help with the bottoming out sound.
There is no click on browns. There is a small tactile bump, but it does no sound. The only sound will come from the bottom out, so basically the key hit the plate and there's sound. So brown and red will be the same. If you want to lessen the sound, you need to absorb the impact when you bottom out. So you are best with 0-rings. Also, if you get thicker keycaps, the sound will be less strong also, so it helps, but really, before changing the switch type, you are better adding O-rings because unless you have clicky switches (blue/green/white) then the switch itself does no sound.
You can get some O-rings for like 2$ on amazon (size 008). The softer the more it will absorb the sound, but II use 70A and it does a great job and has a nice feeling. You can also go more classic and get 50A, more soft.
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There's significant noise when the switches rebound. It adds to the overall clanky noise. I would argue that the rebound sound is louder than bottoming out if you have o-rings installed. The rebound sound is a function of keycaps: material, shape, thickness, and how solidly they fit onto switch stems. Try to push a key down all way, then pause and quickly release it.
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There's significant noise when the switches rebound. It adds to the overall clanky noise. I would argue that the rebound sound is louder than bottoming out if you have o-rings installed. The rebound sound is a function of keycaps: material, shape, thickness, and how solidly they fit onto switch stems. Try to push a key down all way, then pause and quickly release it.
That would make a lot of sense. I still have the brown keyboard I need to return so I can try that out. Are there some keycaps that are better at noise reducing that others?
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There's significant noise when the switches rebound. It adds to the overall clanky noise. I would argue that the rebound sound is louder than bottoming out if you have o-rings installed. The rebound sound is a function of keycaps: material, shape, thickness, and how solidly they fit onto switch stems. Try to push a key down all way, then pause and quickly release it.
That would make a lot of sense. I still have the brown keyboard I need to return so I can try that out. Are there some keycaps that are better at noise reducing that others?
NO.. way to reduce rebound noise on Cherry MX
I've been using thick orings for a while..
and i'm starting to think that for the more "Novice" users, perhaps sound dampening o-rings would be bad,
Because as they are not yet adept at good typing rhythm, the lack of the bottom out audio noise may be confusing to them.
Once they hit 120+, then it doesn't matter because at that point, the person's clearly typing faster than he's able to listen to the switch response.
But before that happens.. the switch's audio response will let you know where the key intonations are, and help you minimize hand lifts.
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Depends on switch, but I find that Ducky Shine (and equivalently CM Storm Trigger and similar) caps are quite soft and absorb impact / vibrations very well vs. harder caps.
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Depends on switch, but I find that Ducky Shine (and equivalently CM Storm Trigger and similar) caps are quite soft and absorb impact / vibrations very well vs. harder caps.
mmmm.............do you gotz decibel spl meter on your phone? Measure for us Kay ? (http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/233cd70a.gif)
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i think a matias quiet pro would be best for your situation
on this page there's a sound comparison to cherry switches you can listen to
http://www.matias.ca/quietpro/pc/
there's an ebay post selling pretty cheap ones right now
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matias-Quiet-Pro-Mechanical-Keyboard-FK302QPC-for-Windows-PC-/181196121455?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item2a3021656f
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i think a matias quiet pro would be best for your situation
on this page there's a sound comparison to cherry switches you can listen to
http://www.matias.ca/quietpro/pc/
there's an ebay post selling pretty cheap ones right now
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matias-Quiet-Pro-Mechanical-Keyboard-FK302QPC-for-Windows-PC-/181196121455?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item2a3021656f
Wow did not see that thanks so much!! It says it has a custom switch.... Do you know if it feels good? What Cherry MX switch would it be compared too? Also can you replace the keycaps?
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I'm pretty sure non-clicky Cherry switches with o-rings or landing pads will be as quiet.
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Wow did not see that thanks so much!! It says it has a custom switch.... Do you know if it feels good? What Cherry MX switch would it be compared too? Also can you replace the keycaps?
i believe they are modified ALPS switches and other ALPS will fit onto them. there have been a couple reviews floating around that say that they feel really good. i think it feels more like topre than cherry mx switches.
here's are some reviews
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41986.0
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42148.0
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=38891.0
http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/11/matias-quiet-pro-keyboard-review/
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I'm pretty sure non-clicky Cherry switches with o-rings or landing pads will be as quiet.
Oh that's interesting. Will defenitly keep that in mind. The Matias would be cheaper.
2 questions....
A) Do you think that the $60 is kind of suspicious for a $150 keyboard?
B) Would the feeling be better on one or another?
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Oopsies replied to my own... Cant delete on my phone
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So it ends up it has $22 shipping.
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I say this in my first response but I'll just repeat myself. The Matias Quiet switches are the second quietest switch I've tried. Quieter than a MX switch with o-rings. The soft-landing pads don't really quiet switches as much as o-rings.
Matias Quiets feel like a better version of MX Browns in my opinion. Browns can feel gritty and the tactile bump feels a bit lacking or non-existent. The Quiets have a touch more tactility and they have the actuation right at the top instead of in the middle like MX switches will so if you learn how to type on Alps switches, you'll never bottom out and it should be very quiet.
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I say this in my first response but I'll just repeat myself. The Matias Quiet switches are the second quietest switch I've tried. Quieter than a MX switch with o-rings. The soft-landing pads don't really quiet switches as much as o-rings.
Matias Quiets feel like a better version of MX Browns in my opinion. Browns can feel gritty and the tactile bump feels a bit lacking or non-existent. The Quiets have a touch more tactility and they have the actuation right at the top instead of in the middle like MX switches will so if you learn how to type on Alps switches, you'll never bottom out and it should be very quiet.
Yeah, I would love to own a Matias Quiet Pro. It seems like an awesome keyboard to have.
Here is the situation now:
I go with either
a) CM Storm QFR w/Reds for $70 (Maybe $60 if I can buy it cheaper used on these forums) + O-Rings ($17.99 from WASD possibly less if I find for cheaper or buy from someone) = $88 + Ability to change key caps + Smaller sizer which I love
b) Matias Quiet Pro for $65 on eBay + $22 shipping (No need for O-rings and can't change keycaps) = $87
With what CPTBadAss mentioned above, the Matias Quiet Pro would be quieter and possibly feel better than the Reds (I do mostly all typing).
At this point should I go for the Matias or go with the CM Storm QFR and try to get the price down?
PS. I really appreciate all the help in all of the previous posts.
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This one is going to come down to whether or not you want MX Reds or Matias Quiet switches. Definitely a personal preference thing here. If I were making this decision, I'd get the Matias Quiet board. But I'm a *huge* Alps and Matias fanboy.
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Would the best way be to order them both see which I like better and return the other?
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Maybe haha. Maybe you want to try the WASD sampler pack first? That way you'll know if you like or dislike MX Reds without having to pay all the money?
I don't know where you live but if you're near a Microcenter or NCIX, I'd recommend you go there and try boards there.
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here's a sound comparison vid i found:
the qfr with reds would probably be your ideal if it is "quiet enough". TKL and custom keycaps are huge advantages. i would love participating in a lot of the group buys here but i have topre and almost never touch my quickfire pro with browns :(
however, if a quiet keyboard is such a high priority, then matias is a good choice. the ebay listing is also "best offer", so you could try negotiating for like $70/$75 shipped. if you want a smaller form factor, maybe wait out for a deal on matias quiet pro mini or try to find a used one.
keep in mind if you buy both and plan to return one, you would likely have to pay return shipping which would be ~$12
also just throwing this out there, you may want to consider the microsoft sidewinder x4. it might be blasphemy recommending a rubber dome keyboard, but it is quiet and goes for like $35-$40 on sale
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Don't forget you can also get 50A black rubber o-rings from Amazon for $8.25 (free shipping if you have Prime). They are my favorite for general noise dampening.
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Maybe haha. Maybe you want to try the WASD sampler pack first? That way you'll know if you like or dislike MX Reds without having to pay all the money?
I don't know where you live but if you're near a Microcenter or NCIX, I'd recommend you go there and try boards there.
I actually happen to live 20 minutes from a Microcenter, maybe I will pop in today.
here's a sound comparison vid i found:
the qfr with reds would probably be your ideal if it is "quiet enough". TKL and custom keycaps are huge advantages. i would love participating in a lot of the group buys here but i have topre and almost never touch my quickfire pro with browns :(
however, if a quiet keyboard is such a high priority, then matias is a good choice. the ebay listing is also "best offer", so you could try negotiating for like $70/$75 shipped. if you want a smaller form factor, maybe wait out for a deal on matias quiet pro mini or try to find a used one.
keep in mind if you buy both and plan to return one, you would likely have to pay return shipping which would be ~$12
also just throwing this out there, you may want to consider the microsoft sidewinder x4. it might be blasphemy recommending a rubber dome keyboard, but it is quiet and goes for like $35-$40 on sale
It turns out before this whole adventure I did order a Microsoft Sidewinder x4 keyboard. The space bar was broken and got stuck so I had to return it. That's what got me thinking, "I could get a mech keyboard".
Did not notice it was best offer! Will defenitly take that into consideration.
Don't forget you can also get 50A black rubber o-rings from Amazon for $8.25 (free shipping if you have Prime). They are my favorite for general noise dampening.
That would take $10 off of the CM QFR w/Reds making it $80.
Do any of you know how much I could buy a QFR w/Reds off of someone here?
EDIT: Found someone and asked them if they would sell it for $60 shipped and they said yes.
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I say this in my first response but I'll just repeat myself. The Matias Quiet switches are the second quietest switch I've tried. Quieter than a MX switch with o-rings. The soft-landing pads don't really quiet switches as much as o-rings.
Matias Quiets feel like a better version of MX Browns in my opinion. Browns can feel gritty and the tactile bump feels a bit lacking or non-existent. The Quiets have a touch more tactility and they have the actuation right at the top instead of in the middle like MX switches will so if you learn how to type on Alps switches, you'll never bottom out and it should be very quiet.
Yeah, I would love to own a Matias Quiet Pro. It seems like an awesome keyboard to have.
Here is the situation now:
I go with either
a) CM Storm QFR w/Reds for $70 (Maybe $60 if I can buy it cheaper used on these forums) + O-Rings ($17.99 from WASD possibly less if I find for cheaper or buy from someone) = $88 + Ability to change key caps + Smaller sizer which I love
b) Matias Quiet Pro for $65 on eBay + $22 shipping (No need for O-rings and can't change keycaps) = $87
With what CPTBadAss mentioned above, the Matias Quiet Pro would be quieter and possibly feel better than the Reds (I do mostly all typing).
At this point should I go for the Matias or go with the CM Storm QFR and try to get the price down?
PS. I really appreciate all the help in all of the previous posts.
You don't seem to care about the difference in size/width of the board, so in your place I would get the Quiet Pro. That is a great price and I would only be suspicious if the seller had a lower rating.
I got my Mini Quiet Pro a couple weeks ago and would choose it over a brown switch (actually any Cherry switch) in a heartbeat. Its about twice as loud as a typical laptop keyboard, if that helps you decide.
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I would prefer the smaller size a ton but $86 is an amazing price for the keyboard. I think I might go to microcenter today because I like the thought of a linear switch. It does seem kinda suspicious but the seller has a good rating.
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For the o-rings, look at this:
70A (stiffer, that's what I use and I love em ~2$): http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FMWLR8/ref=biss_dp_t_asn
50A (more popular, never tried them, they cost more on amazon ~8$): http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0051XWXCE/ref=biss_dp_t_asn
You can also look at IMSTO's vendor forum, he has some for sale at like 4$ a bag, so if you want the soft ones, the ones IMSTO sells would probably be the best choice.
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So are the WASD keykaps a waste of money for $20?
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So are the WASD keykaps a waste of money for $20?
Unless you want very customized legends--yes.
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Alright so now it seems like it will really come down to feel. I love the though of linear switches, are going to microcenter soon and will report back on those.
The Matias seems good with the tactile, how would you compare the feeling to browns?
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Alright so now it seems like it will really come down to feel. I love the though of linear switches, are going to microcenter soon and will report back on those.
The Matias seems good with the tactile, how would you compare the feeling to browns?
EDIT I am at micro center and have tried the reds. Do not like them very much....... Will go for the Matias!
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Alright so now the final showdown is the QFR Browns and orings vs. the Matias Quiet Pro.
My final 2 questions are:
What is the noise of browns with o-rings vs. the Matias Quiet Pro?
What is the difference in feeling between the two?
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Type on your browns without bottoming out. It's at least that + some more from dampened bottoming out. Like a dull thud.
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Alright so now the final showdown is the QFR Browns and orings vs. the Matias Quiet Pro.
My final 2 questions are:
What is the noise of browns with o-rings vs. the Matias Quiet Pro?
What is the difference in feeling between the two?
what happened to your das with browns? did you return that?
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Alright so now the final showdown is the QFR Browns and orings vs. the Matias Quiet Pro.
My final 2 questions are:
What is the noise of browns with o-rings vs. the Matias Quiet Pro?
What is the difference in feeling between the two?
what happened to your das with browns? did you return that?
Its still at my house but yes I am returning it?
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Alright so now the final showdown is the QFR Browns and orings vs. the Matias Quiet Pro.
My final 2 questions are:
What is the noise of browns with o-rings vs. the Matias Quiet Pro?
What is the difference in feeling between the two?
what happened to your das with browns? did you return that?
Its still at my house but yes I am returning it?
Couldn't you just keep it and put the o-ring on it?
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You better take that 65$ Matias QP ebay offer before I do.
Says new with a beat up box. All the pics are showing the box, none on the keyboard. :-(
But seller has good reviews.
Alright so now it seems like it will really come down to feel. I love the though of linear switches, are going to microcenter soon and will report back on those.
The Matias seems good with the tactile, how would you compare the feeling to browns?
EDIT I am at micro center and have tried the reds. Do not like them very much....... Will go for the Matias!
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You better take that 65$ Matias QP ebay offer before I do.
Says new with a beat up box. All the pics are showing the box, none on the keyboard. :-(
But seller has good reviews.
Alright so now it seems like it will really come down to feel. I love the though of linear switches, are going to microcenter soon and will report back on those.
The Matias seems good with the tactile, how would you compare the feeling to browns?
EDIT I am at micro center and have tried the reds. Do not like them very much....... Will go for the Matias!
Its actually 90 with shipping....$22 shipping
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I have a Filco TKL with WASD blue o-rings and it's amazing how big a difference in sound the o-rings make. The clack of an undampened key bottoming out nearly completely drowns out the click. An MX Brown has no click, so those are quite quiet when dampened.
And don't forget the impact of the desk you use. The cheap, hollow IKEA desk I have at home acts as a resonator, making any sounds from the keyboard much louder. (Even the Apple aluminum wireless sounds loud on it.) At work, where the Filco is, the solid desk doesn't resonate, so it's quiet enough that none of my office mates complained, even though it's clicky.
Try this: put a towel or blanket on your desk with the keyboard on top and see if that makes a difference in noise. (It can also be quite pleasant on the hands.)
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Invest 2$ in o-rings, try them, see the difference and decide if you need more sound dampening. I am quite convinced you will be ok with o-rings. Then at least you will have the choice of keeping an mx board (whatever switch you prefer except clicky ones for the sound) or try the Matias.
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I have used browns and love them but they are too loud.
Browns with o rings will be just a quiet as reds.
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The Matias - if it is anything like the old SGI Granite that it is supposed to feel like - will be WAY more tactile than the browns, and at the same time quieter.
The browns have a really subtle tactile bump, and to type well and fast without finger stress on them you have to "float" and not bottom out.
The Matias/Granite/any board with cream Alps - you will bottom out no matter what because the force to get past the tactile/actuation point will send the key right down to the bottom once you get past it. You'd think that'd be bad, but it's dampened and very quiet, and once you get used to it, you can use just enough force to actuate the keys and not a lot more and the dampers cushion your landing very well.
Personally I'd pop for the Matias because my Granite is my favorite quiet board of all. Or if you can find an old PS/2 Granite those are great too, but they are winkeyless just so you know (but have awesome PBTs.) Just be careful that you get a PS/2 one and not one with the proprietary SGI interface.
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People have been mentioning the Matias Quiet pro on here several times. Does anyone know the actuation force of their cream Alps?
I can't find anything on it anywhere.
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People have been mentioning the Matias Quiet pro on here several times. Does anyone know the actuation force of their cream Alps?
I can't find anything on it anywhere.
They are 60±5 gf which is lighter than the old cream ALPS, and also more precise (the keys all feel the same). The announcement thread has some info: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=32769.0
@N8N
MrInterface did a head-to-head comparison between the Quiet Pro and the SGI Granite. IIRC, he liked the Matias switches better. My personal feeling is that they make me bottom out less than the other switches (the Monterreys, black ALPS, Cherry MX) without even trying. Of course, the dampening may be tricking me into thinking I'm bottoming out less than I actually am... when I do bottom out, I can tell my landings are a lot softer than they used to be on other boards.