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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Fragil1ty on Sun, 25 August 2013, 01:27:49
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Hey guys, so I've recently upgraded from a Noppoo Choc Mini 2012 (MX Cherry Red) to a Keycool 84 (MX Cherry Black) because my old keyboard was broke pretty much, it had an annoying bouncing feature >:
I've had my black since last Friday and suffice to say? I don't really like it. I did a typing test and I do seem to be a bit faster and more precise on the blacks for the most part, but I think that's down to the fact that my Keycool does not have any problems and the Noppoo does. So at the moment I'm a little stuck as I don't really want to fork out some more money and buy the Red Version of this keyboard off qTan's website (which is what I should of done in the first place instead of being inpatient and going to mechanicalkeyboards).
But anyway, have you ever ordered a new keyboard with a different switch and then realised that you do not like/cannot stand that switch and if so, what did you do to correct this problem?
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I wanted to say that the same thing happened to my wife's Noppoo choc mini, so I replaced it with a mx-mini with lubed and stickered black switches. She loves them.
Oh and what I did when I didn't like a switch was mod the keyboardor buy a new one:)
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why would you say that you don't like the blacks?
I used to prefer reds but recently have started to like the blacks more.
From my recent experience it takes much longer then one week to get used to the stronger springs.
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as Glissant said... lubing will help a lot.
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I wanted to say that the same thing happened to my wife's Noppoo choc mini, so I replaced it with a mx-mini with lubed and stickered black switches. She loves them.
Oh and what I did when I didn't like a switch was mod the keyboardor buy a new one:)
Oh that's good then, well at least she likes her blacks, I hope she continues to love her keyboard! I guess one option is that I could always buy some o-rings and see if that helps out my problem some what, but I'm not sure if that'll make it better or worse, it just stops bottoming out and makes it smoother, I just don't like the switch, that's my problem I think. I'm too used to reds.
why would you say that you don't like the blacks?
I used to prefer reds but recently have started to like the blacks more.
From my recent experience it takes much longer then one week to get used to the stronger springs.
I don't know how to explain it really, it's just that compared to reds, reds feel so much more friendly and fluent to me, blacks, they just feel rigid and tough and not as nice to use. Maybe it's like you said, I do need more time to get used to them but I think I'm just too used to my good ole' trusty reds.
I was thinking about wracking up enough posts to sell my Keycool in the trading portion of this website.
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I was thinking about wracking up enough posts to sell my Keycool in the trading portion of this website.
You might also find someone interested to trade it for a keyboard with reds.
btw the rigid and tough part means that they need to be lubed.
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I was thinking about wracking up enough posts to sell my Keycool in the trading portion of this website.
You might also find someone interested to trade it for a keyboard with reds.
btw the rigid and tough part means that they need to be lubed.
I would be more than willing to trade it off for it's red counterpart, I'm curious though, what does this whole "lubed" up scenario man? is this something I can do with minimal risk in terms of damage to the keyboard?
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You'll have to desolder the board, open up the switches, lube 'em, and you might as well sticker them while they're open, and re-assemble.
Though if you're going through all that trouble, you might be interested in picking up a spring weight between red and black, like out of blues or browns.
It's a new, crazy world you're entering here, but this is where you can start getting exactly the keyboard you want. Put blacks for the mods, blacks with blue springs for the alphas, maybe browns for the WASD cluster if you game. Customize the board entirely to your own tastes.
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Lubing shouldn't damage your keyboard. It involves opening each switch and applying lube. You could also swap out your springs for something lighter and make the blacks feel like reds. I've never lubed switches myself so I'm not exactly sure how its done but just type it in the search or try typing krytox in there I'm sure you will find some useful info.
EDIT: Shucks you beat me to it Calm!
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Here you go!
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34332
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Though if you're going through all that trouble, you might be interested in picking up a spring weight between red and black, like out of blues or browns.
Reds, blues and browns all use the same spring
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FWIW I usually give it a couple of weeks using a new keyboard before I decide whether I like it or not. Goes for blacks too.
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FWIW I usually give it a couple of weeks using a new keyboard before I decide whether I like it or not. Goes for blacks too.
Yea I'm still getting used to my greens. My first tactile switch so it's a learning curve. My transition from blacks to reds was a breeze tho. I guess moving to a heavier switch from a light red is harder to get used to and it kinda makes sense.
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For me, Cherry MX Black is good to use. I think stock Cherry MX Black may require a long time to 'break-in'.
It depends on the frequency of usage but I think you should use the keyboard for at least 3 months before making any conclusion.
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I upgraded my Poker 2 with mx reds to vintage mx blacks :P
You definitely need to use the mx blacks more.
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I feel mx blacks are very stiff, after acquiring many boards with vintage blacks I must say they feel similar to browns with different springs, but I can feel the difference between vintage and brand new mx black switches, (a bit more stiff/friction off of the newer ones) that said bone structure of hand also dictate what position and if linear/tactile is your thing, keep trying, I honestly think blues are the go to switch for most things, as it feels quite similar to rubber dome.
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Regular blacks are to heavy for me, however with lighter springs they are my 2nd favorite switch.
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I guess I'll just keep using them and see if things get better, I think I just miss my reds, I'm not sure what it is, I started off with Blues I then went to reds, didn't like Reds, loved Reds as I used them over the months and now that I've got rid of reds and using Blacks, I just want Reds back, >.<
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I like MX Blacks for typing more than I like MX Browns, Reds or Blues... The bottom-out just feels awesome, though I do admit, I don't like them all that much for gaming, my fingers got sore after 2 hours playing Skyrim.
Though I still have to try Greens, Clears, Buckling Springs (kinda hard since most keyboards weight over 2 kilos) and god knows when, Topre as well.
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I'm sure if people went around posting about every keyboard they didn't quite like, the forum would be overwhelmed by those posts. So the answer to your question is obvious :) Don't use that keyboard and try another. (or try different keycaps, or mod the switches, or swap the switches, etc.)
Switches have a different feel on different keyboards and with different keycaps. Perhaps if you tried them on another keyboard that was sufficiently different, you'd find that you like them. Or maybe you just don't like heavier linear switches.
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All this talk about blacks - I am using a Model M at home and reds at work. I packed my QFR with blacks yesterday (preparing for a house move) and couldn't resist typing a few lines on it.
Now I am missing blacks.
As soon as a keycap set comes in I'll replace the Filco yellow (to stop them shining any more) and bring that in to work instead.
So ... I like blacks!
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Blacks are that overlooked awesome switch :) They are an acquired taste. I did not immediately like them, but the more I used them and went to other keyboards, the more I missed them and wanted to use them again :)
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Blacks are that overlooked awesome switch :) They are an acquired taste. I did not immediately like them, but the more I used them and went to other keyboards, the more I missed them and wanted to use them again :)
After using a Model M for a while, I am curious to try greens.
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I wouldn't of switched if my keyboard hadn't of broken, maybe it's just a easing in process, I do not know, I'm just going to try and get a cheap Noppoo, if not, I'll just use this Keycool until more money comes my way :)
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I wouldn't of switched if my keyboard hadn't of broken, maybe it's just a easing in process, I do not know, I'm just going to try and get a cheap Noppoo, if not, I'll just use this Keycool until more money comes my way :)
At least it will give you a couple of weeks (or maybe longer) to become acclimatised to the blacks. You never know, by then you might enjoy them :)
Or not - nothing wrong with not liking a switch, and with saying so!
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Thanks for the help regardless!
What are your guys favourite MX Cherry switch?
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Thanks for the help regardless!
What are your guys favourite MX Cherry switch?
For me 55g Black or Browns essentially feel the same haha :).
But I do love typing essays on blues, I like the sound and rhythm makes me feel in the zone..
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I hear reds are one of the most hated and greens along the same lines..
For me Clear/whites are similar to rubber dome o-o although I have not had much time testing
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I would have said blues, but unless the keys are 100% consistent across the board I usually end up finding blues annoying.
I thought reds, but the more I use reds the more I miss blacks.
So probably: blacks.
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putting my 2 cents in:
The TTE Meka G1 and Mionix Zibal 60 are the sweetest stock mass produced MX Black boards I've ever typed on. They honestly feel like they use both lighter springs (maybe 5gish?) and maybe some lube. In reality - I doubt it - but the geometry of the switch mounts seem perfect in these boards. I'm not the only one that feels this way because if you dig in the Newegg/Amazon archives there are a few other individuals who also notice the switches feeling much better in these boards compared to the competition.
MX Blacks aren't for everyone but the TTE/Mionix really do them justice.
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My taste change as I try new things.
With the gh60 or phantoms with the special plates you can switch the switch stems and springs without desoldering so I will be probably be buying 1 set of each switch color and spring weight soon. Then I might have a better answer for you.
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putting my 2 cents in:
The TTE Meka G1 and Mionix Zibal 60 are the sweetest stock mass produced MX Black boards I've ever typed on. They honestly feel like they use both lighter springs (maybe 5gish?) and maybe some lube. In reality - I doubt it - but the geometry of the switch mounts seem perfect in these boards. I'm not the only one that feels this way because if you dig in the Newegg/Amazon archives there are a few other individuals who also notice the switches feeling much better in these boards compared to the competition.
MX Blacks aren't for everyone but the TTE/Mionix really do them justice.
Shame that the stock keycaps for both are just TERRIBAD. :confused:
Nothing a custom set of keycaps for the Meka G1 or a Ducky Shine keycap set for the Zibal 60 can't solve though... :rolleyes:
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I got a Ducky Shine 3 with MX Blacks, the only full-size backlit keyboard I could find with green LEDs. At first I thought it would be a poor compromise, as I prefer MX Whites or MX Greens, but it's become one of my favorite keyboards. Granted, I don't type all that much on it, it's mostly for gaming, but something about the smooth caps and light actuation is appealing.
I also have a G80-1501 with MX Blacks, but I tend to bottom that one out too much. That, and the ISO layout makes it a secondary board for me, maybe some o-rings would help.
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putting my 2 cents in:
The TTE Meka G1 and Mionix Zibal 60 are the sweetest stock mass produced MX Black boards I've ever typed on. They honestly feel like they use both lighter springs (maybe 5gish?) and maybe some lube. In reality - I doubt it - but the geometry of the switch mounts seem perfect in these boards. I'm not the only one that feels this way because if you dig in the Newegg/Amazon archives there are a few other individuals who also notice the switches feeling much better in these boards compared to the competition.
MX Blacks aren't for everyone but the TTE/Mionix really do them justice.
Shame that the stock keycaps for both are just TERRIBAD. :confused:
Nothing a custom set of keycaps for the Meka G1 or a Ducky Shine keycap set for the Zibal 60 can't solve though... :rolleyes:
You can pick up brand new sets of Zibal keycaps on ebay for $14.99 with free shipping. Granted they are not the best - you may only get 6 months out of them - they are dirt cheap.
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So I have been using an alps keyboard for the longest time and is looking for a change and apart from a friend offering me a new 2013 Razer BlackWidow Ultimate for around $90, which I am still considering, I happened to chance upon a used Choc Mini 84 key. This guy who is selling had 3 Choc Mini - blue, brown and blacks and he didn't like the Black so he decided to sell. He claimed that he didn't really used the keyboard, so it's brand new and is selling it off for $60. It's a 2012 model, I believe. I am not sure what got into me but I went ahead and bought it from him. It's a solid keyboard. Love the feel of the keycaps (the box said it is made of POM, not sure what it is - I mean I have heard of ABS and PBT). But it does feel really solid as it has a texture to it. And the whole keyboard had a very compact, no-frills, build. It wasn't very heavy but it feels like you could whack someone with it and still type on the thing.
But I didn't really like the Black. Perhaps because I am used to a tactile keyboard - although that is not true also as I spent most of my working time on a laptop which uses a rubber dome or scissor type of switch, so in technically the Black would feel better. But it still feel mushy compared to the alps. And the lack of sound is also telling my brain that, hey, this is not a mechanical keyboard.
Perhaps I need to use more before I report but I just happened to see this thread and it is how I feel about the Blacks at the moment. I should have just grabbed that Razer instead! grr!
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I hate black switches.
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I hate black switches.
I'm with you there, I often find myself switching back to my Noppoo Choc Mini even though it has a small chattering/bouncing issue. I want to sell this off as soon as I can, I mean it's barely had 2 weeks of use, it's brand new, it's immaculate.
I could probably still get $100 for it right?
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So I have been using an alps keyboard for the longest time and is looking for a change and apart from a friend offering me a new 2013 Razer BlackWidow Ultimate for around $90, which I am still considering, I happened to chance upon a used Choc Mini 84 key. This guy who is selling had 3 Choc Mini - blue, brown and blacks and he didn't like the Black so he decided to sell. He claimed that he didn't really used the keyboard, so it's brand new and is selling it off for $60. It's a 2012 model, I believe. I am not sure what got into me but I went ahead and bought it from him. It's a solid keyboard. Love the feel of the keycaps (the box said it is made of POM, not sure what it is - I mean I have heard of ABS and PBT). But it does feel really solid as it has a texture to it. And the whole keyboard had a very compact, no-frills, build. It wasn't very heavy but it feels like you could whack someone with it and still type on the thing.
But I didn't really like the Black. Perhaps because I am used to a tactile keyboard - although that is not true also as I spent most of my working time on a laptop which uses a rubber dome or scissor type of switch, so in technically the Black would feel better. But it still feel mushy compared to the alps. And the lack of sound is also telling my brain that, hey, this is not a mechanical keyboard.
Perhaps I need to use more before I report but I just happened to see this thread and it is how I feel about the Blacks at the moment. I should have just grabbed that Razer instead! grr!
i don't know about new or modern mx black, but i an tell you that vintage blacks are very nice
somebody is selling them here recent if i recall
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So I have been using an alps keyboard for the longest time and is looking for a change and apart from a friend offering me a new 2013 Razer BlackWidow Ultimate for around $90, which I am still considering, I happened to chance upon a used Choc Mini 84 key. This guy who is selling had 3 Choc Mini - blue, brown and blacks and he didn't like the Black so he decided to sell. He claimed that he didn't really used the keyboard, so it's brand new and is selling it off for $60. It's a 2012 model, I believe. I am not sure what got into me but I went ahead and bought it from him. It's a solid keyboard. Love the feel of the keycaps (the box said it is made of POM, not sure what it is - I mean I have heard of ABS and PBT). But it does feel really solid as it has a texture to it. And the whole keyboard had a very compact, no-frills, build. It wasn't very heavy but it feels like you could whack someone with it and still type on the thing.
But I didn't really like the Black. Perhaps because I am used to a tactile keyboard - although that is not true also as I spent most of my working time on a laptop which uses a rubber dome or scissor type of switch, so in technically the Black would feel better. But it still feel mushy compared to the alps. And the lack of sound is also telling my brain that, hey, this is not a mechanical keyboard.
Perhaps I need to use more before I report but I just happened to see this thread and it is how I feel about the Blacks at the moment. I should have just grabbed that Razer instead! grr!
i don't know about new or modern mx black, but i an tell you that vintage blacks are very nice
somebody is selling them here recent if i recall
whiskytango was selling them.
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(http://www.singleblackmale.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/sad-black-man.jpg)
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I got some 55g black keyboards, and I love them a lot. I wonder if 55g red feel the same or not.
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Thread title could be interpreted differently
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why are mx yellows so small
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The more I used the Blacks, the more I hear the sound of air pump every time I press the key. The switch is just too linear and either I hear the air being pumped out or I need to lube the switch!!
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It's strange because when I typed on my friends Steelseries 6GV2 the switch doesn't feel as resistant as to when I type on it on my Keycool 84, but I don't know, a lot of people have suggest lubing up the keys and what not, but I just cannot be bothered going through that hassle and not sure how much of a difference it's going to make overall anyhow.
I'm just going to stick with MX Cherry Reds from now on.
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I missed my blacks when I switched to reds at work, so I swapped all 87 keycaps between boards and went back to blacks.
I guess reds are too soft for me.
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The more I used the Blacks, the more I hear the sound of air pump every time I press the key. The switch is just too linear and either I hear the air being pumped out or I need to lube the switch!!
It's not the sound of air being pumped out. It's just mechanical friction of the stem against the housing. The less friction, the quieter that sound will be. It will decrease over time with gradual use.
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Hey guys, so I've recently upgraded from a Noppoo Choc Mini 2012 (MX Cherry Red) to a Keycool 84 (MX Cherry Black) because my old keyboard was broke pretty much, it had an annoying bouncing feature >:
I've had my black since last Friday and suffice to say? I don't really like it. I did a typing test and I do seem to be a bit faster and more precise on the blacks for the most part, but I think that's down to the fact that my Keycool does not have any problems and the Noppoo does. So at the moment I'm a little stuck as I don't really want to fork out some more money and buy the Red Version of this keyboard off qTan's website (which is what I should of done in the first place instead of being inpatient and going to mechanicalkeyboards).
But anyway, have you ever ordered a new keyboard with a different switch and then realised that you do not like/cannot stand that switch and if so, what did you do to correct this problem?
look at my sig....it's chronological from the bottom to the top and i always bought the next board because i didn't like the previous one :)
when i came to the red switch, i just bought more because
-the first filco was full 104 keys and i wanted a smaller form factor
-the noppoo choc mini i didn't like the size after trying it
-QFR stealth i liked, but i wanted a filco anyway lolz
-and the last filco with blues is being RMAd, because one key doesn't click and it's too expensive for me to learn to solder on, hehe
so yeah....
i gave the WASD V1 to my brother for his 30th Bday and i'm thinking of selling the rest, bar the filcos.....using the 104 keys version with reds at work and currently using the TKL one at home as a daily driver, but i kinda liked the blues when i tried them, so i'm on the fence whether i'm gonna be clicking, or keep being red :)
can't wait for some proper caps though :)
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I don't like linear switches of any kind.