Ergodoxnot :rolleyes:
ErgoGPalso not :rolleyes:
ErgoGPalso not :rolleyes:
The others
AFAIK the choices come down to
- Truly Ergonomic The new kid. Getting a foothold, this is now my all time favorite and has displaced my Kinesis Advantage collection as I said. For me it has all the best elements, plus a few new ones (angled design, thumb and center keys, dual symmetric modifiers, centered and dedicated navigation keys, six layers, reprogrammable, solid metal plate construction, small key wells that don't collect a lot of crud ...) all in a small package. Maybe I'm biased because I like it so much but I don't see a lot of disadvantages, other than a rocky start.
- ErgoDox. Interesting DIY project. Expensive for what you get IMO (box of parts and unfinished aluminum or acrylic). A lot of folks here seem to like it but it's way too big for me (much like the kinesis), plus I don't the flat design and layout.
AFAIK the choices come down to
- Truly Ergonomic The new kid. Getting a foothold, this is now my all time favorite and has displaced my Kinesis Advantage collection as I said. For me it has all the best elements, plus a few new ones (angled design, thumb and center keys, dual symmetric modifiers, centered and dedicated navigation keys, six layers, reprogrammable, solid metal plate construction, small key wells that don't collect a lot of crud ...) all in a small package. Maybe I'm biased because I like it so much but I don't see a lot of disadvantages, other than a rocky start.
Biased ... mmmm ... I remember you as the troll behind the ' Truly Ergonomic scam / fraud ' (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=13952.0) a few years ago when you started a thread at geekhack talking about the advantages of the 'Truly Ergonomic' over the Kinesis Advantage, The truly ergonomic was at that time a device that never existed and since your first post it took two years to be made and while you scam people (and for what I see still doing that) on Internet forums *WE* the geekhack community develop better ergonomic keyboards alternatives and with the help of the community projects like the Key64 (http://www.key64.org) and the ErgoDox (http://www.ergodox.org) saw the light at the end. Fortunately many people choose the ErgoDox over other commercial alternatives including your 'Not Truly Ergonomic' because they realized they should not support a keyboard manufacturer that lied for over two years.
And for the ergonomic point of view Is the 'Truly Ergonomic' really an Ergonomic keyboard ?
just try to rest your thumbs at the keyboard and see if they fit ergonomically
The way the manufacturer (Architect) want
Of course I am biased too because I am the designer behind the key64 keyboard but instead of you the 'Alter Ego Architect' I don't need to hide myself.
NTECK = Not Truly ErgonomiC Keyboard.
Ah here we go! Here is the bias and the keyboard hate. I'm just a keyboard user, but you are some kind of manufacturer with an agenda, who is making false allegations and raising an ugly stink trying to slam the competition AND EVERY USER WHO LIKES IT.
I'm stating my opinions, you are being abusive and I will report it.
Whether or not Architect is a shill for TE or just an enthusiastic TE lover, I think unless someone has proof of the former, we should allow him the same dignity we grant any other keyboard lover on this site.
While I have no insider knowledge, I would like to think that he has found a keyboard that meets his needs and wants others to know about it. I say that because if he was a TE plant, I don't think that he would have the people skills necessary to be very convincing.
many operating systems to recognize their keyboard without unplugging and replugging in the USB connection after every start up.
As to the charge against neslax; I'm not aware of him trying to profit from the groundwork he laid with the key64 project, a project which has spawned several innovative keyboards. All of the happy ErgoDox users owe a debt of gratitude to him.
OFFTOPIC:
regarding "Architect", I'm one of the first ppl who suspected him of nefarious motives this is because of my extensive background in internet marketing and seo. I'm also very protective of the GH ergo community and if i see any "BS" i will call it out. You can read that old post if you want, it involves many old time ergo guys and hell even imav(the owner) was perplexed about Architect's zealous love for what at the time seems to be vaporware. It's been more than 2 years since and he's still posting on the forum, 99% of all marketing shills and trolls drop off the forum after a month ..
he's been around, he contributes, so what can you say really? he just really loves his TE.
AFAIK the choices come down to
- Truly Ergonomic The new kid. Getting a foothold, this is now my all time favorite and has displaced my Kinesis Advantage collection as I said. For me it has all the best elements, plus a few new ones (angled design, thumb and center keys, dual symmetric modifiers, centered and dedicated navigation keys, six layers, reprogrammable, solid metal plate construction, small key wells that don't collect a lot of crud ...) all in a small package. Maybe I'm biased because I like it so much but I don't see a lot of disadvantages, other than a rocky start.
- ErgoDox. Interesting DIY project. Expensive for what you get IMO (box of parts and unfinished aluminum or acrylic). A lot of folks here seem to like it but it's way too big for me (much like the kinesis), plus I don't the flat design and layout.
...
1. The nonsplit-angled design. The angled design's great. Good step in the right direction. But I find it not angled enough for my own liking - others may find it too much (I doubt it), or like me, too little, or they might just get lucky and find it perfect, as you did. But to use one would require me to conform to the board, which defeats the purpose of an ergonomic solution.
2. It's still flat. And not being split, you can't tent it, even if you wanted to.
3. Immensely weird layout, for someone new to the ergogame. The column of keys at the center? Its subjective, but I find it a little perplexing. It's something I could probably adapt to if I wanted, but I don't get the benefit.
What I really don't get is this - how quickly you dismiss the ergodox, and for reasons that doesn't really make sense. Too big?
But that aside, lets get back to the flat design - another one of your criticisms against the ergodox. The ergodox is tentable, or I could have left it flat, like the TECK is. I wouldn't have a choice to do the reverse with the TECK. You state that you don't like the flat design, but isn't that exactly what the TECK is, with no recourse for changing it?
its baffling how you see the ergodox as a 'box of part and unfinished aluminium or acrylic'.
I don't mean to come across rude (if I do come across that way), but I just don't see how anyone could look at the TECK (a flat, non-adjustable, non split, and only recently programmable) and the ergodox (the modularity is a modder's dream, and the ease of use and the similarity to the kinesis layout), and objectively say that the TECK is a better keyboard.
I get it - you've found something that fits your needs, and you want to share the joy. It's the same with me and the ergodox. But as anyone familiar with the principles of ergonomics should be - you should realise that what fits one person doesn't necessarily fit another.
But what I don't get is this - the bias and fervent (almost blind) promotion of the TECK as the best ergoboard available. Its great you found your perfect board, but recommending to others spouting its debatable virtues (when you do seem to know you're biased), does seems more than a little irresponsible, doesn't it?
QuoteBut what I don't get is this - the bias and fervent (almost blind) promotion of the TECK as the best ergoboard available. Its great you found your perfect board, but recommending to others spouting its debatable virtues (when you do seem to know you're biased), does seems more than a little irresponsible, doesn't it?
As opposed to the frequent biased opinions of Dox lovers (and others) on this board? How often do we see automatic answers to somebody asking for a new keyboard "Get a Dox"? I see it a lot. But I don't complain about it. I just bring up my reasons for liking the TECK, some hopefully useful points to consider, and I bring up issues and good points I see with other boards. And if you look at my post above you'll see "For me it has all the best elements" and "Maybe I'm biased because I like it so much but I don't see a lot of disadvantages" - does that sound like I'm saying it's the BEST ergo keyboard for EVERYBODY?
I don't understand the ad-hominem though, why did you have to put that in? Keeping to discussing the topic instead of my preferences would have been better. But since you did I'll tell you why I talk about the good aspects of the TECK so much, because I think the board gets an unfair bad rap on this board. It seems like as soon as TE announced the board and the preorder program people developed a conspiracy hatred of the company. I personally was excited about the design because it was similar to one I had been thinking of for a long time. So I would talk about why I liked it. Boy was that a mistake! Everybody (it seemed) on this board got on the conspiracy wagon. It was embarrassing - I thought - for people to want to believe such crazy stories. Didn't stop them. Here we are years later, TE proved they are legitimate and came out with everything they promised (just longer than promised), and we still hear conspiracy ideas. Who has the problem here?
So there's my personal motivations. I like the board, I think there is too much bias against them due to marketing blunders, so I'm pointing out what I think the good things are about it.
As opposed to the frequent biased opinions of Dox lovers (and others) on this board? How often do we see automatic answers to somebody asking for a new keyboard "Get a Dox"? I see it a lot. But I don't complain about it.
But since you did I'll tell you why I talk about the good aspects of the TECK so much, because I think the board gets an unfair bad rap on this board.
So there's my personal motivations. I like the board, I think there is too much bias against them due to marketing blunders, so I'm pointing out what I think the good things are about it.
LET US BE CLEAR. Here is some educational information for all of you who believe the ErgoDox is the center of the universe, “a masterpiece”, and that we all owe a debt of gratitude to “him”.
I know this happens in the forum. Alot. And most of the whole "Get a Dox" thing is being perpetrated by the resident forum troll.we have a troll on the ergo forums? that shouldn't be, who is this?
And since the answer has nothing to do with ergonomics, I have no interest in continuing this conversation either. You enjoy your TECK and I'll continue using my Dox.
I actually do like the Dox, I was on the very first buy but then canceled and dropped off the board due to all the TECK hate. Even now I'd get one just for the collection if nothing else, but the problem is I need more than one keyboard. I have four at my desk (circular sit-stand desk with three work stations), one at work and one for traveling. Too much to solder. Also I don't understand the function keys, I wonder why Dox left them off? I suggested Fn keys and an extra thumb key on either side for a modifier but I think he was already settled in the design. I use Fn keys constantly in the work I do ... anyhow I guess people map them to a layer (I map F13-F24 to F1-F12 in my Fn layer).
I don't have that agenda, and I agree with nesiax.
Report me as well if you like.
I don't have that agenda, and I agree with nesiax.
Report me as well if you like.
Agreed. Architect is either a horrendous advertiser or great troll, because the way he manages to spout his opinions and false claims is a massive turn-off which pushes people away from the NTECK. The way he boasted in your original thread about your 'expensive grand piano' was particularly amusing also.
I would like to put out the opinion that A) we continue watching him embarrass himself or B) the moderators ban him, owing to the worthlessness of his opinion.
I agree that a split Kinesis would be fantastic. A bastard child of the Advantage with the (something like) the accessories of the Freestyle and there'll be a queue with me near the front.
Anyone tempted to design a case to make use the of 'keywells' that Kinesis sell separately (and reasonably cheaply) as an upgrade?
Maltron then flattened THEIR design and sell it as the Maltron Dual Hand Flat (2D).
http://www.maltron.com/index.php/shop/category/47-maltron-dual-hand-2d-flat-keyboards (http://www.maltron.com/index.php/shop/category/47-maltron-dual-hand-2d-flat-keyboards)
Does it resemble something if you remove the middle keys?
Yes. The Kinesis-Advantage
Does it resemble something if you remove the middle keys, remove the Function keys, and break it in two pieces?
Does it look like the ErgoDox? No, it doesn’t look like, IT IS IDENTICAL.
Guys, help. I'm worried. I took a turd and turned the carbon in into diamond and then put it on display. It's still kinda in the same shape of the turd. Is my *** going to sue me? HELP! I'M SCARED!
Guys, help. I'm worried. I took a turd and turned the carbon in into diamond and then put it on display. It's still kinda in the same shape of the turd. Is my *** going to sue me? HELP! I'M SCARED!
:)) You better lawyer up!
Guys, help. I'm worried. I took a turd and turned the carbon in into diamond and then put it on display. It's still kinda in the same shape of the turd. Is my *** going to sue me? HELP! I'M SCARED!
You better lawyer up!
Can you PLEASE healp?
Then again, none of the existing boards is really what I am after personally, so I am designing my own.. :D I'll post it in the building things together forum when I get a bit further with it.
Then again, none of the existing boards is really what I am after personally, so I am designing my own.. :D I'll post it in the building things together forum when I get a bit further with it.
Cool! Any tantalising hints/clues you could give us? Hope it goes well.
Then again, none of the existing boards is really what I am after personally, so I am designing my own.. :D I'll post it in the building things together forum when I get a bit further with it.
Cool! Any tantalising hints/clues you could give us? Hope it goes well.
Sneak preview pic. I really want to get it working before posting more, but I am quite happy with how it is going so far.
FYI, the Kinesis-Advantage also “stole” the Maltron design (there are other discussions about this elsewhere). Furthermore to Kinesis, they didn’t design their “Maxim” either - they just rebranded the Fujitsu Siemens KBC-5600. Even worse, their last offering moves away from mechanical switches and matrix style key layout with their Freestyle2 - a copycat of the Goldtouch or ErgoFlex.
The flat thumb clusters of Ergodox don't appeal to me, although it's MUCH better than a standard board.
So there shouldn't be any keyboards that look like a microsoft ergo keyboard?I don't think it is fair to call the Datadesk Smartboard a "Microsoft ergo look-alike".
Sneak preview pic. I really want to get it working before posting more, but I am quite happy with how it is going so far.I like what you did with the thumb clusters!
Has anyone tried original Kinesis keycaps in the thumb clusters of ergoDox?Of course they fit. They are standard keycaps. Both Kinesis contoured and ErgoDox have standard Cherry MX switches and standard key spacing.
Has anyone tried original Kinesis keycaps in the thumb clusters of ergoDox?Of course they fit. They are standard keycaps. Both Kinesis contoured and ErgoDox have standard Cherry MX switches and standard key spacing.
...
We want MOOOOOOOREEEEEEEEEE!!!!!
...
We want MOOOOOOOREEEEEEEEEE!!!!!
Thread about it is up now: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49721.0
ThenShow Image(http://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pages/US1089689-1.png)Show Image(http://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pages/US1089689-0.png)
MaltronShow Image(http://mindprod.com/image/keyboard/maltronetype.png)
My systemShow Image(http://museum.ipsj.or.jp/computer/word/images/0027_02_l.jpg)Kinesis AdvantangeShow Image(http://images.anandtech.com/doci/7125/Kinesis%20Advantage%20%282%29_678x452.jpg)Ergo DoxShow Image(http://xahlee.info/kbd/i3/ergodox_keyboard_wooden_wristpad_by_almightyglod-s.jpg)
FYI, the Kinesis-Advantage also “stole” the Maltron design (there are other discussions about this elsewhere). Furthermore to Kinesis, they didn’t design their “Maxim” either - they just rebranded the Fujitsu Siemens KBC-5600. Even worse, their last offering moves away from mechanical switches and matrix style key layout with their Freestyle2 - a copycat of the Goldtouch or ErgoFlex.
You should probably have all your facts straight before making such claims, Azteca.
We spent over two years designing the Kinesis Contoured keyboard.
FYI, the Kinesis-Advantage also “stole” the Maltron design (there are other discussions about this elsewhere). Furthermore to Kinesis, they didn’t design their “Maxim” either - they just rebranded the Fujitsu Siemens KBC-5600. Even worse, their last offering moves away from mechanical switches and matrix style key layout with their Freestyle2 - a copycat of the Goldtouch or ErgoFlex.
You should probably have all your facts straight before making such claims, Azteca.
We spent over two years designing the Kinesis Contoured keyboard.
The main point is that I find PATHETIC that either one person, a group of individuals (“the community”) or a Company claims a design as theirs when it is obviously not theirs as is only a copycat. Worst when the design is copied and then some elements are removed just to lower the cost of the device.
Kinesis-Advantage and ErgoDox are copycats of the Maltron, no matter how many false arguments or supposedly research they claim, no matter if supposedly based on a combination of other dozen designs, no matter even if they were conceived by a Goddess.
Making money of someone else's design is one dreadful and disappointing thing to do, claiming the design as theirs is just PATHETIC.
How to make a Kinesis Advantage(
Take the Maltron;
wait 20 years;
remove 28 center keys;
remove 2 center ‘Del’ keys;
replace Function keys with gummy bears;
);
//Hope nobody notices;
Azteca, you literally have no idea what you're talking about. The only way in which the Maltron and Kinesis take after each other is that both are based off of keywells. The Maltron design is older and in my opinion the Kinesis did a much better job of making a usable keyboard (at a less ridiculous price). Just because two things resemble each other doesn't mean that they're copied.
Azteca, you literally have no idea what you're talking about. The only way in which the Maltron and Kinesis take after each other is that both are based off of keywells. The Maltron design is older and in my opinion the Kinesis did a much better job of making a usable keyboard (at a less ridiculous price). Just because two things resemble each other doesn't mean that they're copied.
Maltron is not taking from Kinesis, only the other way.
Maltron is made, and has always been made by hand - reason is expensive; ridiculous price only if you don't value your health. Get your facts. :-X
Kinesis removed above-mentioned keys and redesigned the Maltron reducing the keywells in a way to allow them to do less expensive-hand-work, in order to lower the overall cost (still $350 - "ridiculous high price" compared to $10 keyboards). The PCB inside the Kinesis cannot be bend anymore, reason why the keywells have shorter angles.
Kinesis will always be the younger brother (the one that copies everything the older brother does).
I'm a pragmatist (google it), deal with it. :thumb:
Oobly your kibord thumb clusters i think from this
http://deskthority.net/resources/3d-with-straight-rows/3110 (http://deskthority.net/resources/3d-with-straight-rows/3110)
You don't need to publish a paper when designing a product, especially nowadays. If you do so, you are inviting other companies to produce a product from your research, since published papers are public. I can't think of any manufacturer other than Maltron that has published papers regarding researching their keyboard design or layout. They were pioneers in the field and created their own market, so all "ergonomic" designs that have come after owe a nod of recognition to them
...
There have to be some compromises unless you produce a VERY expensive, exclusive custom product and there isn't a market to support that, AFAIK.
Without dissecting the very good points posted by long standing, qualified, respected community members (thanks guys, that's what makes this place great)….it seems Azteca has some anger and is making wildly accusatory claims that are over simplified, not well thought out, absolutely inaccurate, and definitely misplaced, all of this on multiple layers. Judging by his writing style I'm not sure a direct rebuttal is going to be effective, so the direction the thread is taking to counter and inform is probably the best.
Maybe if Azteca would choose to make a point and ask some questions, he may get some better information as opposed to the extrapolated "decision" he has arrived at and displayed here.
Without dissecting the very good points posted by long standing, qualified, respected community members (thanks guys, that's what makes this place great)….it seems Azteca has some anger and is making wildly accusatory claims that are over simplified, not well thought out, absolutely inaccurate, and definitely misplaced, all of this on multiple layers. Judging by his writing style I'm not sure a direct rebuttal is going to be effective, so the direction the thread is taking to counter and inform is probably the best.
Maybe if Azteca would choose to make a point and ask some questions, he may get some better information as opposed to the extrapolated "decision" he has arrived at and displayed here.
Obviously some people only read what they want to read and reach imaginary conclusions by themselves. :-X
My initial and main point in this post is that I ‘dislike’ when either a company, group of people, or corporation, claims a design as theirs (for personal benefit or profit) when it is ‘observable’ they ‘mimic’ the ‘core’ of the design from someone else, more easily palpable as the Maltron design is unique.
It has escalated since I ‘observed’ that the ErgoDox’s ‘community’ claimed their design came from the ‘Key64’ - which supposedly came from what appears to be about 64 other designs, but it ended ‘looking’ ‘about’ the same as the flat Maltron without the center or function keys (equivalent as image presented earlier comparing Maltron and Kinesis-Advantage) and split in two pieces.
The ‘anger’ (simple observations) is for all the backfire a simple comment can generate in this forum when ‘the other people’ doesn’t like such observations.
Still, I’ll keep observing and posting comments when deem required to ‘shield’ my main observations. :thumb:
And if you prefer I ask questions like a parrot, disregarding I already ‘believe’ know the answers:
Why the Kinesis Advantage does look almost the same as the Maltron, considering Kinesis claims they spend two years in research?
Is it possible the Kinesis Advantage is really the 20 year lost younger brother of the Maltron?
Is it possible Kinesis and Maltron have a secret license deal, so secret that Maltron doesn’t know about it?
Why the ErgoDox does look almost the same as the Flat Maltron (minus a bunch of keys)?
Why so many GeekHacks claim the ErgoDox as perfect when ‘several’ (citation needed) have ‘observed’ that the thumb cluster is difficult to reach and not that ergonomic?
So many other questions, so little time.
:D
Ok, parrot-boy, let's back off and start fresh...
...
Your move.
Ok, parrot-boy, let's back off and start fresh...
...
Your move.
I’m writing a book about hatred and trolling posts, thank you for your collaboration.
Read with me “I dislike when one claims a design as theirs when it is not.” It seems too many copy others, but at least they don’t claim as theirs.
ErgoDox claims “the community” created it, but it looks the same as the Maltron 2D minus some keys.
The “Kinesis patent” is only about how to manufacture a keyboard - how the PCB can be bend in order to achieve bowls, and not about the design itself (keys position); reason it was approved. Kinesis has claimed within this forum (in response to my 'honest' post) that they researched for over 2 years and conceived their design, but neglected to mention their research is not about the design/position of the keys, it’s only about how to manufacture more economically (compared to Maltron that is built by hand).
Funny that the patent shows big keys for the function keys instead of the gummy-bear keys used in the real product to lower the overall cost. Don’t be that defensive about the Kinesis-Advantage, it’s an old design and Kinesis is now focused on the Freestyle2 with rubber domes and a staggered layout.
In regard to a person or company (in this particular case Kinesis) making reference to other patents (Patent Citations), the person/company doesn’t make the references, the Patent officer reviewing the patent will bring up which other patents the officer researched to grant or deny the patent in question. In the Kinesis patent they only reference patent 07/683980 of a common keyboard, and make no other reference. So, although other patents are referenced within the Kinesis patent, was not Kinesis who bring them up, was the Patent officer.
“Your move”? This is not a chess game, this is not a legal battle about who is right and who is wrong, this forum is about chatting and providing opinions; if you don’t like mine just skip them. Stop posting you “don't care” about my posts while continue reading and replying.
The “Kinesis patent” is only about how to manufacture a keyboard - how the PCB can be bend in order to achieve bowls, and not about the design itself (keys position); reason it was approved. Kinesis has claimed within this forum (in response to my 'honest' post) that they researched for over 2 years and conceived their design, but neglected to mention their research is not about the design/position of the keys, it’s only about how to manufacture more economically (compared to Maltron that is built by hand).
Funny that the patent shows big keys for the function keys instead of the gummy-bear keys used in the real product to lower the overall cost. Don’t be that defensive about the Kinesis-Advantage, it’s an old design and Kinesis is now focused on the Freestyle2 with rubber domes and a staggered layout.
The goal of patents/enforcing patents is to allow things to progress, not stifle innovation.lol
My previous, and rather combative, post has seemingly (and probably rightfully) disappeared into the aether of trollbait. Here's something rather more reasoned.
It turns out that Hobday has, indeed, patented certain parts of the Maltron keyboard. And quite rightfully so. For example : https://www.google.com/patents/WO2003046938A1 which covers the flexible circuit board stuff. This patent references one issued by Kinesis (https://www.google.com/patents/US5610602).
More interestingly, the Kinesis patent above, in turn, quite rightfully references Lilian Malt's 1977 patent, https://www.google.com/patents/US4244659
This, in its turn, references Einbinder's 1973 patents https://www.google.com/patents/US3929216 and https://www.google.com/patents/US3945482 as well as Ross' 1971 patent https://www.google.com/patents/US3805939 (which covers "anatomic" key layouts) and McNamara's 1917 (yes, 1917) patent, also referenced by Kinesis, https://www.google.com/patents/US1395049 which has separate thumb clusters.
Kinesis also reference Tyberg's 1926 patent (split board with thumb cluster, again), Felton's 1974 patent that covers split keyboards, and so on.
Other patents of interest might be Hall's 1923 patent https://www.google.com/patents/US1468566, Solon's 1943 patent https://www.google.com/patents/US2369807, which both cover non-planar keyboards, Heidner's 1914 patent https://www.google.com/patents/US1138474, Dodds' 1969 patent https://www.google.com/patents/US2369807 on split keyboards, and so on.
Or maybe Torrey's 1897 patent https://www.google.com/patents/US606903, which is a split symmetrical board with thumb keys. Quentell, also 1897 covers a symmetrical board with thumb keys. Vollberg's 1930 german patent on a split, curved board. And so on. It would be easy to spend hours, if not days, tracing the lineage of both the Maltron and Kinesis boards through their *patented* previous iterations, and that wouldn't even touch on the stuff that either wasn't patented or considered patentable.
What I'm trying to get at is that the Maltron keyboard didn't spring into existence out of nothing. It builds on previous work over the better part of a century. And the Kinesis board builds on that (and acknowledges the fact by referencing Malt's original patent).
It's not theft of Maltron's precious eye-pee. It's incremental enhancement, and it works both ways (see Hobday's referencing of a Kinesis patent). Incremental enhancement is the way science and technology advance.
Dude, chill out.Do note that the post you’re replying to is now 10 months old. :-)
Dude, chill out.Do note that the post you’re replying to is now 10 months old. :-)
Dude, chill out.Do note that the post you’re replying to is now 10 months old. :-)
I do, but I never saw his post before as this thread was just bumped yesterday. I felt I should respond even if it's old :)
To Azteca: It’s pretty obvious to everyone looking that the Ergodox was inspired by the Kinesis Advantage, which was in turn inspired by the Maltron. So what? All the relevant patents about this shape are now expired. There’s no “ripoff” here, only as as tufty says, incremental enhancement (even if the later products aren’t always strictly better than the earlier ones).
in some ancient neanderthal dwelling.When did you come to my house?
in some ancient neanderthal dwelling.When did you come to my house?
I didn't know your dwelling was ancient?Wanna know how ancient it is? It's older than I am!
Dude, chill out...http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47590.msg1070369#msg1070369 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47590.msg1070369#msg1070369)
“We spent over two years designing the Kinesis Contoured keyboard.”Hardware development is just hard. Getting anything ready for mass production takes a lot of work and resources. Figuring out a new curved PCB construction method, figuring out a design that can actually be mass produced, making the tooling for injection molding, going back and forth with manufacturing partners on design tweaks for several iterations, setting up marketing and distribution, etc. all take a lot of time.
:eek:
Rheinmetall Portable Ergonomic