So I've been reading comparisons and debates on the HHKB Pro 2 and the Leopold FC660C. What I want to know is about the profile on the 660C. I currently own the FC660M, and I forced myself to change the keycaps because I really didn't like how the flat and short the 660M stock caps were. I made so many errors because I caught my fingers would end up getting in between two caps. I also hate how uncustomizable the fc660m keycaps are due to the size on the right shift and the awkward spacebar.
So, I am wondering if the keycaps for the fc660c are similar to the keycaps on the fc660m. Also give me a statement as to why I should get a 660c over the HHKB Pro 2.
The chief drawback of the FC660C is the appearance of the keycaps. Although they are PBT, which feels good, they fall far short of the quality and elegant good looks of the dye-sublimated white and light gray keycaps on the Realforce 87U or the HHKB Pro 2.
I would like to see Realforce produce a mini keyboard with a 60+% form factor, similar to the Leopold FC660C. I envision an even more refined keyboard than the Leopold, with the build quality and reliability of a Realforce, the styling elegance of the HHKB Pro 2, and the top-notch dye-sub PBT keycaps of the RF 87U or HHKB Pro 2.
I have somehow just decided to reorder the fc660c after cancelling my order a few weeks ago... look what you bastards did!
Seriously though, I think everyone wants to see a fc660c with white alpha and grey modifier keys like the hhkb. Now here is a dilemma.. What happens if I order the fc660c now and they come out with new and improved keycaps that are not available separately? Can I forgive myself?
HHKB Pro 2 Type-S is superior to the FC660C. I have both.
I don't have the regular HHKB Pro 2, but most of the following will apply to that one as well.
Here is why I prefer HHKB Pro 2 Type-S:
1. Layout of the keys. HHKB has distinctive key placement. Control, backspace, and ~, and pipe bar |\ are all in HHKB pattern. Which is better.
2. Sound of the HHKB Pro 2 Type-S is better.
3. The look of the white and grey is better than beige on black of the FC660C. Somebody above said it was white on black, but it's not, it's really a beige on black. Possibly even it's supposed to be a little golden beige or something. It looks like crap, quite frankly. Although I really like the keyboard, I really don't like the color scheme.
4. Blanks are better than letters.
BUT, the FC660C has one great feature and that is the price. At under $200, it's very appealing. However, the HHKB Pro 2 is better. If you get the HHKB Pro 2, you will have one keyboard, since there will never really be a reason to buy the FC660C. On the other hand, if you get the FC660C, eventually you will have two keyboards, because eventually you will buy the HHKB Pro 2 as well. There is no better way I can explain it. Of course having moar keyboards is better than less, but you might want to save money and just get the HHKB Pro 2.
HHKB Pro 2 Type-S is superior to the FC660C. I have both.
I don't have the regular HHKB Pro 2, but most of the following will apply to that one as well.
Here is why I prefer HHKB Pro 2 Type-S:
1. Layout of the keys. HHKB has distinctive key placement. Control, backspace, and ~, and pipe bar |\ are all in HHKB pattern. Which is better.
2. Sound of the HHKB Pro 2 Type-S is better.
3. The look of the white and grey is better than beige on black of the FC660C. Somebody above said it was white on black, but it's not, it's really a beige on black. Possibly even it's supposed to be a little golden beige or something. It looks like crap, quite frankly. Although I really like the keyboard, I really don't like the color scheme.
4. Blanks are better than letters.
BUT, the FC660C has one great feature and that is the price. At under $200, it's very appealing. However, the HHKB Pro 2 is better. If you get the HHKB Pro 2, you will have one keyboard, since there will never really be a reason to buy the FC660C. On the other hand, if you get the FC660C, eventually you will have two keyboards, because eventually you will buy the HHKB Pro 2 as well. There is no better way I can explain it. Of course having moar keyboards is better than less, but you might want to save money and just get the HHKB Pro 2.
I can get used to any layout and switch between layouts fairly easily...What I don't like about the HHKB though is that the capslock is a control key...the reason being is that I type with Colemak which has the capslock as backspace (which I find more efficient than having a control in place of capslock). The price for a Type-s is outrageous ($400! Just for a silent version of the board). Still debating. I want to save money, but I really want a good quality board. Do you own a FC660C? Looks wise though, I am sold on the HHKB. Just gotta wait to restock.
HHKB Pro 2 Type-S is superior to the FC660C. I have both.
I don't have the regular HHKB Pro 2, but most of the following will apply to that one as well.
Here is why I prefer HHKB Pro 2 Type-S:
1. Layout of the keys. HHKB has distinctive key placement. Control, backspace, and ~, and pipe bar |\ are all in HHKB pattern. Which is better.
2. Sound of the HHKB Pro 2 Type-S is better.
3. The look of the white and grey is better than beige on black of the FC660C. Somebody above said it was white on black, but it's not, it's really a beige on black. Possibly even it's supposed to be a little golden beige or something. It looks like crap, quite frankly. Although I really like the keyboard, I really don't like the color scheme.
4. Blanks are better than letters.
BUT, the FC660C has one great feature and that is the price. At under $200, it's very appealing. However, the HHKB Pro 2 is better. If you get the HHKB Pro 2, you will have one keyboard, since there will never really be a reason to buy the FC660C. On the other hand, if you get the FC660C, eventually you will have two keyboards, because eventually you will buy the HHKB Pro 2 as well. There is no better way I can explain it. Of course having moar keyboards is better than less, but you might want to save money and just get the HHKB Pro 2.
I can get used to any layout and switch between layouts fairly easily...What I don't like about the HHKB though is that the capslock is a control key...the reason being is that I type with Colemak which has the capslock as backspace (which I find more efficient than having a control in place of capslock). The price for a Type-s is outrageous ($400! Just for a silent version of the board). Still debating. I want to save money, but I really want a good quality board. Do you own a FC660C? Looks wise though, I am sold on the HHKB. Just gotta wait to restock.
Yah, I have the FC660C too.
Here's all my Topre keyboards.
(http://i1148.photobucket.com/albums/o580/eth0sz/toprekeyboards2.jpg) (http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/eth0sz/media/toprekeyboards2.jpg.html)
HHKB Pro 2 Type-S is pretty expensive at $400. I wish I could tell you it's worth it. But everybody has to decide that for themselves. To me it's worth it. But then again, I'm not a starving college student.
The regular HHKB is "only" $260. Which I think might be a better keyboard than FC660C. However, the FC660C is very good. So I don't think you will be unhappy with it.
...I am using my Leopold FC660C right now and really enjoying the typing experience. The typing feel and sound of the uniformly weighted 45 gram Topre switches is ideal, and I like the feel of the PBT keycaps. Build quality is good, and the build includes plate-mounted switches for a solid feel and good heft. There are nice touches like rubberized extensible feet. The price is also good for a Topre board.
Ugh I feel like I'm buying a board for the very first time again :mad:. Well someone on here is offering to sell a FC660C for $170 which is cheaper than on EK...I really like how the HHKB Pro 2 looks though x.x and that layout is nice (minus the control instead of caps lock). I still have time to decide. So....SOMEONE CONVINCE ME EITHER WAY!
HHKB Pro 2 Type-S is superior to the FC660C. I have both.
I don't have the regular HHKB Pro 2, but most of the following will apply to that one as well.
Here is why I prefer HHKB Pro 2 Type-S:
1. Layout of the keys. HHKB has distinctive key placement. Control, backspace, and ~, and pipe bar |\ are all in HHKB pattern. Which is better.
2. Sound of the HHKB Pro 2 Type-S is better.
3. The look of the white and grey is better than beige on black of the FC660C. Somebody above said it was white on black, but it's not, it's really a beige on black. Possibly even it's supposed to be a little golden beige or something. It looks like crap, quite frankly. Although I really like the keyboard, I really don't like the color scheme.
4. Blanks are better than letters.
BUT, the FC660C has one great feature and that is the price. At under $200, it's very appealing. However, the HHKB Pro 2 is better. If you get the HHKB Pro 2, you will have one keyboard, since there will never really be a reason to buy the FC660C. On the other hand, if you get the FC660C, eventually you will have two keyboards, because eventually you will buy the HHKB Pro 2 as well. There is no better way I can explain it. Of course having moar keyboards is better than less, but you might want to save money and just get the HHKB Pro 2.
The chief drawback of the FC660C is the appearance of the keycaps. Although they are PBT, which feels good, they fall far short of the quality and elegant good looks of the dye-sublimated white and light gray keycaps on the Realforce 87U or the HHKB Pro 2.
I would like to see Realforce produce a mini keyboard with a 60+% form factor, similar to the Leopold FC660C. I envision an even more refined keyboard than the Leopold, with the build quality and reliability of a Realforce, the styling elegance of the HHKB Pro 2, and the top-notch dye-sub PBT keycaps of the RF 87U or HHKB Pro 2.
That is also what's stopping me from buying the board. I really like how the HHKB Pro 2 looks with its sleek design and the choice of white/gray blank PBT keycaps. The fc660c are only in black with those printed keycaps even though they are PBT. They really need to sell them with blank like their FC660M, and in white. I would be all over it. I am a sucker for looks lol.
I just really want my Topre fix XD. Ugh such a hard debate...
Unfortunately, I doubt that the white version that might be slated for the future will look anything like the white/gray versions of the HHKB Pro 2 or RF87U/104U, and for US customers, it might not be offered by a mainstream vendor such as EK.The chief drawback of the FC660C is the appearance of the keycaps. Although they are PBT, which feels good, they fall far short of the quality and elegant good looks of the dye-sublimated white and light gray keycaps on the Realforce 87U or the HHKB Pro 2.
I would like to see Realforce produce a mini keyboard with a 60+% form factor, similar to the Leopold FC660C. I envision an even more refined keyboard than the Leopold, with the build quality and reliability of a Realforce, the styling elegance of the HHKB Pro 2, and the top-notch dye-sub PBT keycaps of the RF 87U or HHKB Pro 2.
That is also what's stopping me from buying the board. I really like how the HHKB Pro 2 looks with its sleek design and the choice of white/gray blank PBT keycaps. The fc660c are only in black with those printed keycaps even though they are PBT. They really need to sell them with blank like their FC660M, and in white. I would be all over it. I am a sucker for looks lol.
I just really want my Topre fix XD. Ugh such a hard debate...
This is the exact reason why I've held back. The FC660C carton has potential future options which include White and Unprinted. I'm waiting on both before pulling the trigger.
Unfortunately, I doubt that the white version that might be slated for the future will look anything like the white/gray versions of the HHKB Pro 2 or RF87U/104U, and for US customers, it might not be offered by a mainstream vendor such as EK.The chief drawback of the FC660C is the appearance of the keycaps. Although they are PBT, which feels good, they fall far short of the quality and elegant good looks of the dye-sublimated white and light gray keycaps on the Realforce 87U or the HHKB Pro 2.
I would like to see Realforce produce a mini keyboard with a 60+% form factor, similar to the Leopold FC660C. I envision an even more refined keyboard than the Leopold, with the build quality and reliability of a Realforce, the styling elegance of the HHKB Pro 2, and the top-notch dye-sub PBT keycaps of the RF 87U or HHKB Pro 2.
That is also what's stopping me from buying the board. I really like how the HHKB Pro 2 looks with its sleek design and the choice of white/gray blank PBT keycaps. The fc660c are only in black with those printed keycaps even though they are PBT. They really need to sell them with blank like their FC660M, and in white. I would be all over it. I am a sucker for looks lol.
I just really want my Topre fix XD. Ugh such a hard debate...
This is the exact reason why I've held back. The FC660C carton has potential future options which include White and Unprinted. I'm waiting on both before pulling the trigger.
As for now, I am typing this on my ugly FC660C because I like the feel of the Topre switches, but I will probably soon go back to my IBM SSK, both for its typing feel and good looks.
...My understanding is that it is not up to the dealers; I think that they might be at the mercy of the suppliers.
EK takes for freaking ever to bring new product in. It wouldn't break anyone's heart if Realforce/Leopold gave MechanicalKeyboards the rights to their product lines.
HHKB Pro 2 Type-S is superior to the FC660C. I have both.
I don't have the regular HHKB Pro 2, but most of the following will apply to that one as well.
Here is why I prefer HHKB Pro 2 Type-S:
1. Layout of the keys. HHKB has distinctive key placement. Control, backspace, and ~, and pipe bar |\ are all in HHKB pattern. Which is better.
2. Sound of the HHKB Pro 2 Type-S is better.
3. The look of the white and grey is better than beige on black of the FC660C. Somebody above said it was white on black, but it's not, it's really a beige on black. Possibly even it's supposed to be a little golden beige or something. It looks like crap, quite frankly. Although I really like the keyboard, I really don't like the color scheme.
4. Blanks are better than letters.
BUT, the FC660C has one great feature and that is the price. At under $200, it's very appealing. However, the HHKB Pro 2 is better. If you get the HHKB Pro 2, you will have one keyboard, since there will never really be a reason to buy the FC660C. On the other hand, if you get the FC660C, eventually you will have two keyboards, because eventually you will buy the HHKB Pro 2 as well. There is no better way I can explain it. Of course having moar keyboards is better than less, but you might want to save money and just get the HHKB Pro 2.
I can get used to any layout and switch between layouts fairly easily...What I don't like about the HHKB though is that the capslock is a control key...the reason being is that I type with Colemak which has the capslock as backspace (which I find more efficient than having a control in place of capslock). The price for a Type-s is outrageous ($400! Just for a silent version of the board). Still debating. I want to save money, but I really want a good quality board. Do you own a FC660C? Looks wise though, I am sold on the HHKB. Just gotta wait to restock.
Yah, I have the FC660C too.
Here's all my Topre keyboards.
(http://i1148.photobucket.com/albums/o580/eth0sz/toprekeyboards2.jpg) (http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/eth0sz/media/toprekeyboards2.jpg.html)
HHKB Pro 2 Type-S is pretty expensive at $400. I wish I could tell you it's worth it. But everybody has to decide that for themselves. To me it's worth it. But then again, I'm not a starving college student.
The regular HHKB is "only" $260. Which I think might be a better keyboard than FC660C. However, the FC660C is very good. So I don't think you will be unhappy with it.
The chief drawback of the FC660C is the appearance of the keycaps. Although they are PBT, which feels good, they fall far short of the quality and elegant good looks of the dye-sublimated white and light gray keycaps on the Realforce 87U or the HHKB Pro 2.
I would like to see Realforce produce a mini keyboard with a 60+% form factor, similar to the Leopold FC660C. I envision an even more refined keyboard than the Leopold, with the build quality and reliability of a Realforce, the styling elegance of the HHKB Pro 2, and the top-notch dye-sub PBT keycaps of the RF 87U or HHKB Pro 2.
That is also what's stopping me from buying the board. I really like how the HHKB Pro 2 looks with its sleek design and the choice of white/gray blank PBT keycaps. The fc660c are only in black with those printed keycaps even though they are PBT. They really need to sell them with blank like their FC660M, and in white. I would be all over it. I am a sucker for looks lol.
I just really want my Topre fix XD. Ugh such a hard debate...
This is the exact reason why I've held back. The FC660C carton has potential future options which include White and Unprinted. I'm waiting on both before pulling the trigger.
The chief drawback of the FC660C is the appearance of the keycaps. Although they are PBT, which feels good, they fall far short of the quality and elegant good looks of the dye-sublimated white and light gray keycaps on the Realforce 87U or the HHKB Pro 2.
I would like to see Realforce produce a mini keyboard with a 60+% form factor, similar to the Leopold FC660C. I envision an even more refined keyboard than the Leopold, with the build quality and reliability of a Realforce, the styling elegance of the HHKB Pro 2, and the top-notch dye-sub PBT keycaps of the RF 87U or HHKB Pro 2.
That is also what's stopping me from buying the board. I really like how the HHKB Pro 2 looks with its sleek design and the choice of white/gray blank PBT keycaps. The fc660c are only in black with those printed keycaps even though they are PBT. They really need to sell them with blank like their FC660M, and in white. I would be all over it. I am a sucker for looks lol.
I just really want my Topre fix XD. Ugh such a hard debate...
This is the exact reason why I've held back. The FC660C carton has potential future options which include White and Unprinted. I'm waiting on both before pulling the trigger.
I think you're going to be waiting for a while then. I know they have those options listed but so far they've only come up with the blank version for the MX FC660M in black only. I heard something about they having trouble printing on white keycaps, which is holding them back from releasing it but I think that's a bit dumb because everyone wants the blank white version anyways ;D You should just buy a black one now and sell it later if a white one comes out, there's no point in waiting.
Note that FC660M keyboards are being produced by two different factories: Leopold in Korea and Leopold-China. Some say that the quality control in the Leopold Korea site is better, although it would be of interest to see a proper study with rigorous statistical evaluation.The chief drawback of the FC660C is the appearance of the keycaps. Although they are PBT, which feels good, they fall far short of the quality and elegant good looks of the dye-sublimated white and light gray keycaps on the Realforce 87U or the HHKB Pro 2.
I would like to see Realforce produce a mini keyboard with a 60+% form factor, similar to the Leopold FC660C. I envision an even more refined keyboard than the Leopold, with the build quality and reliability of a Realforce, the styling elegance of the HHKB Pro 2, and the top-notch dye-sub PBT keycaps of the RF 87U or HHKB Pro 2.
That is also what's stopping me from buying the board. I really like how the HHKB Pro 2 looks with its sleek design and the choice of white/gray blank PBT keycaps. The fc660c are only in black with those printed keycaps even though they are PBT. They really need to sell them with blank like their FC660M, and in white. I would be all over it. I am a sucker for looks lol.
I just really want my Topre fix XD. Ugh such a hard debate...
This is the exact reason why I've held back. The FC660C carton has potential future options which include White and Unprinted. I'm waiting on both before pulling the trigger.
I think you're going to be waiting for a while then. I know they have those options listed but so far they've only come up with the blank version for the MX FC660M in black only. I heard something about they having trouble printing on white keycaps, which is holding them back from releasing it but I think that's a bit dumb because everyone wants the blank white version anyways ;D You should just buy a black one now and sell it later if a white one comes out, there's no point in waiting.
That's not true. FC660M's are available in Graphite with blank keycaps. Taobao has a store that is selling blank graphite and white keycaps for the FC660M.
Note that FC660M keyboards are being produced by two different factories: Leopold in Korea and Leopold-China. Some say that the quality control in the Leopold Korea site is better, although it would be of interest to see a proper study with rigorous statistical evaluation.
The label on the bottom of the FC660M keyboard will say either Made in Korea or Leopold-China. The label on the bottom of the FC660C keyboard will say, Designed by Leopold, Inspected in Japan, and Made in China.Note that FC660M keyboards are being produced by two different factories: Leopold in Korea and Leopold-China. Some say that the quality control in the Leopold Korea site is better, although it would be of interest to see a proper study with rigorous statistical evaluation.
How do you know which factory produced yours?
Just to chime in, I have the 660c, a Realforce, and previously a HHKB 2 Pro. (Along with dozens of cherry and alps boards)
The 660C is my favorite board of all time, period. Not "for the money", I mean if I had a billion dollars and could pick one factory board, this is it.
The lack of dye-sub keycaps is a fair criticism, but is only a cosmetic thing... At least the keycaps feel great. I do hope they have more options later.
I loved my HHKB too. The biggest complaint was the arrow cluster. I don't mind them being on a second layer, I just despise where they put them. (I tried for months, never really clicked.) that said, I recently discovered the TMK programmable controller, so perhaps I'll try it again and do my own mappings.
Just my two cents. I've shared this over and over, but I'm just so happy Leopold did this board. :-)
Yeah, the main thing is that keyboards are subjective. I have a SSK and I'm horribly slow on it, and really don't like the feel. I should sell it, but kind of feel like I'd be a half-ass collector if I didn't have it. ;-p
It's kind of shocking how much money you need to spend to find your perfect board. (Which is why we need more local meetups and temporary-trades perhaps?)
Bought two sets of Realforce keycaps to do "Candy Corn" - Thought some people would want to see the Candy Corn "Invert" that I did on my FC660C (with the remaining caps). The right "Shift" is the left "Shift" from the Realforce 87UB. Not much can be done with the 6 keys on the bottom row.
I have both, the FC660M and the FC660C. By far, the FC660C is the superior board, because of its Topre switches.Don't agree. MX board feels more solid. 660C feels like a cheap toy in comparison. Then again I have never been impressed by the feel nor quality of Topre boards.
I have both, the FC660M and the FC660C. By far, the FC660C is the superior board, because of its Topre switches.Don't agree. MX board feels more solid. 660C feels like a cheap toy in comparison. Then again I have never been impressed by the feel nor quality of Topre boards.
MIC 660M have a different box (http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=40658.0;attach=30147;image).
Edit: the above post is typed on a 87U.
I have both, the FC660M and the FC660C. By far, the FC660C is the superior board, because of its Topre switches.Don't agree. MX board feels more solid. 660C feels like a cheap toy in comparison. Then again I have never been impressed by the feel nor quality of Topre boards.
MIC 660M have a different box (http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=40658.0;attach=30147;image).
Edit: the above post is typed on a 87U.
Dammit man! Don't say that, I have a fc660m and just ordered the fc660c yesterday. From a quality standpoint is the fc660c garbage or does it not feel solid relative to the M version?
Lets not set the standard so low. The quality is just average.
660C: Flash on keycaps, scratches on the bottom edges of keycaps, rotated keycaps (all the usual stuff you see on Realforce, but not to this degree). Mr squeaky and flexible case. Scratched plate.
660M: Uneven texture on the keycap mold (look closer, there are flat untextured spots), keycap shrinkage, uneven lasered legend color (more so on the MIC).
It has been awhile since I've seen mine (friend haven't give it back yet), so those are from the top of my head. I am sure there was more. They are not unacceptable in quality, but calling them superb is a gross overstatement.
As I have said before, they are both built like small thanks.
Yeah, the main thing is that keyboards are subjective. I have a SSK and I'm horribly slow on it, and really don't like the feel. I should sell it, but kind of feel like I'd be a half-ass collector if I didn't have it. ;-p
It's kind of shocking how much money you need to spend to find your perfect board. (Which is why we need more local meetups and temporary-trades perhaps?)
Bought two sets of Realforce keycaps to do "Candy Corn" - Thought some people would want to see the Candy Corn "Invert" that I did on my FC660C (with the remaining caps). The right "Shift" is the left "Shift" from the Realforce 87UB. Not much can be done with the 6 keys on the bottom row.
If you look at the images of the FC660C and RF 87U on the EK website, you can see that the spacebars on these two keyboards are of different lengths. So, keycaps from a RF 87U should fit the FC660C except for the bottom-row modifiers, spacebar, and right-shift.Bought two sets of Realforce keycaps to do "Candy Corn" - Thought some people would want to see the Candy Corn "Invert" that I did on my FC660C (with the remaining caps). The right "Shift" is the left "Shift" from the Realforce 87UB. Not much can be done with the 6 keys on the bottom row.
Wait...I read in multiple places that the FC660C had a nonstandard spacebar. The spacebar from a realforce topre set will fit on it? Are the 6 keys at the bottom the only ones that no existing replacements will fit on?
If you look at the images of the FC660C and RF 87U on the EK website, you can see that the spacebars on these two keyboards are of different lengths. So, keycaps from a RF 87U should fit the FC660C except for the bottom-row modifiers, spacebar, and right-shift.Bought two sets of Realforce keycaps to do "Candy Corn" - Thought some people would want to see the Candy Corn "Invert" that I did on my FC660C (with the remaining caps). The right "Shift" is the left "Shift" from the Realforce 87UB. Not much can be done with the 6 keys on the bottom row.
Wait...I read in multiple places that the FC660C had a nonstandard spacebar. The spacebar from a realforce topre set will fit on it? Are the 6 keys at the bottom the only ones that no existing replacements will fit on?
This is quite frustrating, because keycaps for the 87U are also not currently available, and even if they were, they would only be a woefully incomplete match for the FC660C.
I hope that the keycap issue can be remedied soon, but I have not heard of anything being done.
I think there are at least three issues with this. The first is finding a manufacturer that is set up to make Topre keycaps. The second is finding a critical mass of Topre owners who would like to have custom keycaps. The third is that there are several different Topre-switch keyboards with different sets of Topre keycaps: e.g., the HHKB Pro 2, Leoopld FC660C, and RF boards.If you look at the images of the FC660C and RF 87U on the EK website, you can see that the spacebars on these two keyboards are of different lengths. So, keycaps from a RF 87U should fit the FC660C except for the bottom-row modifiers, spacebar, and right-shift.Bought two sets of Realforce keycaps to do "Candy Corn" - Thought some people would want to see the Candy Corn "Invert" that I did on my FC660C (with the remaining caps). The right "Shift" is the left "Shift" from the Realforce 87UB. Not much can be done with the 6 keys on the bottom row.
Wait...I read in multiple places that the FC660C had a nonstandard spacebar. The spacebar from a realforce topre set will fit on it? Are the 6 keys at the bottom the only ones that no existing replacements will fit on?
This is quite frustrating, because keycaps for the 87U are also not currently available, and even if they were, they would only be a woefully incomplete match for the FC660C.
I hope that the keycap issue can be remedied soon, but I have not heard of anything being done.
I'm curious how therecorder fit the custom spacebar on his FC660C then? As for the keyset situation, I'm curious why nobody has tried to organize some type of group buy or something with a custom set specifically for an FC660C. In fact I have yet to see an active Topre Keycap groupbuy. Is there a reason for this?
Well, my FC660C is as heavy and "flexless" than my FC660M (MX Clear).
The keycaps of the FC660C do fade, and I guess the M will do the same. :/
Album here (http://imgur.com/a/rNgMn)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/WlY8ta2.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/4rGJP8L.jpg)
If you look at the images of the FC660C and RF 87U on the EK website, you can see that the spacebars on these two keyboards are of different lengths. So, keycaps from a RF 87U should fit the FC660C except for the bottom-row modifiers, spacebar, and right-shift.Bought two sets of Realforce keycaps to do "Candy Corn" - Thought some people would want to see the Candy Corn "Invert" that I did on my FC660C (with the remaining caps). The right "Shift" is the left "Shift" from the Realforce 87UB. Not much can be done with the 6 keys on the bottom row.
Wait...I read in multiple places that the FC660C had a nonstandard spacebar. The spacebar from a realforce topre set will fit on it? Are the 6 keys at the bottom the only ones that no existing replacements will fit on?
This is quite frustrating, because keycaps for the 87U are also not currently available, and even if they were, they would only be a woefully incomplete match for the FC660C.
I hope that the keycap issue can be remedied soon, but I have not heard of anything being done.
I'm curious how therecorder fit the custom spacebar on his FC660C then? As for the keyset situation, I'm curious why nobody has tried to organize some type of group buy or something with a custom set specifically for an FC660C. In fact I have yet to see an active Topre Keycap groupbuy. Is there a reason for this?
I'm curious how therecorder fit the custom spacebar on his FC660C then? As for the keyset situation, I'm curious why nobody has tried to organize some type of group buy or something with a custom set specifically for an FC660C. In fact I have yet to see an active Topre Keycap groupbuy. Is there a reason for this?The "Spacebar" is the same size... Didn't have to do anything... Only the six bottom row modifiers and a second "Shift" are problems.
I'm pretty sure that the flex issue with the FC660C was a defect in the first run. Mine has pretty much no flex. It just doesn't compare at all to what I see in review videos.I waited a long time for mine on backorder, and it has the case flex issue, elicited by squeezing the case on the top and bottom edges in the middle of the case, so perhaps this was not only a problem with the first batch. Otherwise, the board seems fairly solid. The main issue is the keycaps. A more minor issue is the color of the case. I would prefer black, like the FC660M, but the FC660C is more of a dark brown rather than black.
I'm pretty sure that the flex issue with the FC660C was a defect in the first run. Mine has pretty much no flex. It just doesn't compare at all to what I see in review videos.I waited a long time for mine on backorder, and it has the case flex issue, elicited by squeezing the case on the top and bottom edges in the middle of the case, so perhaps this was not only a problem with the first batch. Otherwise, the board seems fairly solid. The main issue is the keycaps. A more minor issue is the color of the case. I would prefer black, like the FC660M, but the FC660C is more of a dark brown rather than black.
Got mine from Elite, also, but after a long wait on backorder.I'm pretty sure that the flex issue with the FC660C was a defect in the first run. Mine has pretty much no flex. It just doesn't compare at all to what I see in review videos.I waited a long time for mine on backorder, and it has the case flex issue, elicited by squeezing the case on the top and bottom edges in the middle of the case, so perhaps this was not only a problem with the first batch. Otherwise, the board seems fairly solid. The main issue is the keycaps. A more minor issue is the color of the case. I would prefer black, like the FC660M, but the FC660C is more of a dark brown rather than black.
I think that I was one of the first people to order an FC660C from Elite, and I have absolutely no flex. From where did you guys get your boards?
I found a link to a set of Topre keycaps for an RF board on the Leopold Korea site. The set includes Asian characters on the legends in addition to English characters, but this would be fine with me. Is someone on GH willing to serve as a proxy for the Korean Leopold site?
http://www.leopold.co.kr/?doc=cart/item.php&it_id=1364954361
Thanks.
Excellent point. However, depending on what the proxy and shipping costs are, it might still be cheaper to order direct from Leopold.I found a link to a set of Topre keycaps for an RF board on the Leopold Korea site. The set includes Asian characters on the legends in addition to English characters, but this would be fine with me. Is someone on GH willing to serve as a proxy for the Korean Leopold site?
http://www.leopold.co.kr/?doc=cart/item.php&it_id=1364954361
Thanks.
That's about $125 + proxy costs + shipping. For that price, you could almost buy a white realforce and have the keycaps you want. If you can deal with all white, I would wait until Elite restocks its keycaps.
Excellent point. However, depending on what the proxy and shipping costs are, it might still be cheaper to order direct from Leopold.I found a link to a set of Topre keycaps for an RF board on the Leopold Korea site. The set includes Asian characters on the legends in addition to English characters, but this would be fine with me. Is someone on GH willing to serve as a proxy for the Korean Leopold site?
http://www.leopold.co.kr/?doc=cart/item.php&it_id=1364954361
Thanks.
That's about $125 + proxy costs + shipping. For that price, you could almost buy a white realforce and have the keycaps you want. If you can deal with all white, I would wait until Elite restocks its keycaps.
How long has Elite been out of stock? And how much longer will it be before restocking? Moreover, I wonder why Elite could not get a two-tone set, like on the RF board, rather than all white? For example, the keysets they carry for the HHKB Pro 2 include a white/gray two-tone set like on the keyboard itself.
Nevertheless, even if I could get the RF set, it still does not solve the problem of replacing ALL the keycaps (including modifiers) on the Leopold FC660C.
So, I hope that whomever has to be convinced (Leopold? Topre?) will make one or more high-quality dye-sub PBT sets specifically for the FC660C.
Ah! Good to know that a RF 87U spacebar will fit the FC660C. So, that just leaves the modifiers and getting an extra left shift to use as the 2.25x right shift.
Keysets are available for the HHKB Pro 2. Does anyone know if the HHKB Pro 2 spacebar will fit the FC660C?
Ah! Good to know that a RF 87U spacebar will fit the FC660C. So, that just leaves the modifiers and getting an extra left shift to use as the 2.25x right shift.
Keysets are available for the HHKB Pro 2. Does anyone know if the HHKB Pro 2 spacebar will fit the FC660C?
Any chance you could elaborate on the situation with the shift key? Aren't they both the same size? Would this not come in a Topre set for a Realforce board?
What would be cool is if Brian at Elite could order a dozen left Shift keycaps for each color keycap set that Realforce offers (Printed and Blank), and charge a few dollars to add this keycap to each Realforce keycap set that he sells.
Ah! Good to know that a RF 87U spacebar will fit the FC660C. So, that just leaves the modifiers and getting an extra left shift to use as the 2.25x right shift.
Keysets are available for the HHKB Pro 2. Does anyone know if the HHKB Pro 2 spacebar will fit the FC660C?
Any chance you could elaborate on the situation with the shift key? Aren't they both the same size? Would this not come in a Topre set for a Realforce board?
On a Realforce 87/104 board, the right shift is larger than the left one.
I am definitely interested in getting a keycap set for the Leopold FC660C if it will closely resemble the white/gray set on a RF 87U. If the set were specifically designed for the FC660C, it would of course include the 2.25x right shift and the 1.25x modifiers.
If such a keycap set is not going to be produced, then I might go with a RF 87U board, possibly with all 55-gram Topre switches. However, I would prefer to have a 60+% form factor like the FC660C.
I am definitely interested in getting a keycap set for the Leopold FC660C if it will closely resemble the white/gray set on a RF 87U. If the set were specifically designed for the FC660C, it would of course include the 2.25x right shift and the 1.25x modifiers.
If such a keycap set is not going to be produced, then I might go with a RF 87U board, possibly with all 55-gram Topre switches. However, I would prefer to have a 60+% form factor like the FC660C.
Well, you could always go the "artistic" route and just use a set of realforce keycaps on the FC660C leaving the shifts as the stock keys along with the bottom row of 6. Personally I don't think it would look that bad and you could get the best of both worlds.
Keycap sets for both boards were of course something I inquired about from day one, but are not yet available. Leopold is still gauging interest for this board's unique layout.
I just wanted to stop by this thread and clear some things up about the FC660 series and keycaps...
Keycap sets for both boards were of course something I inquired about from day one, but are not yet available. Leopold is still gauging interest for this board's unique layout.
Keycap sets for both boards were of course something I inquired about from day one, but are not yet available. Leopold is still gauging interest for this board's unique layout.
Thanks for the informative update!
Someone should point Leopold at the dozens of enthusiastic threads here if they want to gauge the level of interest in the boards ;)
Thanks EK for clearing that up and putting in some useful information for us! With that I am now 52% towards HHKB and 48% FC660C. This is mostly because I am impatient lol. It mostly depends on if they come out with a new off white and gray version of the FC660C by the time I get my refund check money. I like trying new things though so we will see.
Thanks EK for clearing that up and putting in some useful information for us! With that I am now 52% towards HHKB and 48% FC660C. This is mostly because I am impatient lol. It mostly depends on if they come out with a new off white and gray version of the FC660C by the time I get my refund check money. I like trying new things though so we will see.
If your signature is correct you already have an FC660M? I would recommend an HHKB then :) Despite the quality of Topre switches, I definitely think that buying a new type of keyboard is more reasonable.
This is a tough call. I really like the elegant good looks of the HHKB Pro 2, but I think the layout and absence of dedicated arrow keys in the primary layer would render it less than useful for me. So far, the best layout I have found is embodied in the Leopold FC660 series, and by far the best switches I have ever tried (next to my IBM buckling springs) are the Topre switches in the FC660C. The Topres are much better than the Cherry mx blues in my FC660M. All this notwithstanding, I do not like the look of the keycaps on the FC660C, although I like the way they feel (PBT). From a practical perspective, the FC660C might be the more useful product. However, you will probably always be curious about the HHKB Pro 2, and so at some point you are going to have to satisfy your curiosity and try it. If it turns out that the layout works for you, then the HHKB Pro 2 could be your answer. Please let us know how it turns out!
This is a tough call. I really like the elegant good looks of the HHKB Pro 2, but I think the layout and absence of dedicated arrow keys in the primary layer would render it less than useful for me. So far, the best layout I have found is embodied in the Leopold FC660 series, and by far the best switches I have ever tried (next to my IBM buckling springs) are the Topre switches in the FC660C. The Topres are much better than the Cherry mx blues in my FC660M. All this notwithstanding, I do not like the look of the keycaps on the FC660C, although I like the way they feel (PBT). From a practical perspective, the FC660C might be the more useful product. However, you will probably always be curious about the HHKB Pro 2, and so at some point you are going to have to satisfy your curiosity and try it. If it turns out that the layout works for you, then the HHKB Pro 2 could be your answer. Please let us know how it turns out!
I definitely will once I have the money to get it and actually receive it. I had no problem with getting used to the Poker X, so I don't think I would have too much trouble getting used to the HHKB layout. The only thing that might be a bit tricky is getting used to where the backspace is.
This is a tough call. I really like the elegant good looks of the HHKB Pro 2, but I think the layout and absence of dedicated arrow keys in the primary layer would render it less than useful for me. So far, the best layout I have found is embodied in the Leopold FC660 series, and by far the best switches I have ever tried (next to my IBM buckling springs) are the Topre switches in the FC660C. The Topres are much better than the Cherry mx blues in my FC660M. All this notwithstanding, I do not like the look of the keycaps on the FC660C, although I like the way they feel (PBT). From a practical perspective, the FC660C might be the more useful product. However, you will probably always be curious about the HHKB Pro 2, and so at some point you are going to have to satisfy your curiosity and try it. If it turns out that the layout works for you, then the HHKB Pro 2 could be your answer. Please let us know how it turns out!
I definitely will once I have the money to get it and actually receive it. I had no problem with getting used to the Poker X, so I don't think I would have too much trouble getting used to the HHKB layout. The only thing that might be a bit tricky is getting used to where the backspace is.
See now the backspace issue was actually one of the more major reasons why I haven't gotten an HHKB. Arrow keys are one thing, but using a backspace for me seems to be too much of a quick muscle memory reaction for a position change to not cause problems. As for arrow keys, I do programming work and put them to good use when doing so. If you can manage without arrow keys and are more adaptable then I'm sure switching to the HHKB will be smooth and speedy.
I received my fc660c today...
I really hope that Leopold will come out with a second-generation version of the FC660C that will have, at the least, a high-quality set of dye-sub PBT keycaps like those on the white and gray version of the RF 87u or HHKB Pro 2. It would also be nice if they issued models with a choice of either 45-gram or 55-gram Topre switches. Othewise, I don't think they need to change a thing; it is already a praiseworthy keyboard.
I think the the FN+arrow keys on the FC660C are actually more convenient than the dedicated keys on my fullsized keyboard. It's interesting because you'd think that dedicated keys would be better than function layer key combinations.
I received my fc660c today and I am very happy with the purchase. To me the layout is absolutely perfect, everything I need is there (discrete arrows and delete key) and the proximity of the fn key to the arrow keys makes for the most intuitive navigation in a 60% keyboard ever. One thing I want to stress as it is not labeled on the keycaps and I feel is the best thing about the layout is that fn+up/down is pgup/down and fn+left/right is home/end. In case anyone has been on the fence about getting a 60% keyboard, the layout of the fc660 series is the best balance of form and function while still staying similar to standard keyboards. This was important to me as I did not want to develop muscle memory for shortcuts that would not carry over to RL.
The quality is very similar to the korean made fc660m. The board feels very solid, it's nice and heavy and it doesn't have a creak when squeeze it. The key caps are quite decent, if only the legends were not going to wear away I would be completely satisfied. The only other caveat is that the texture on the keycaps is not consistent. Certain areas are a little smoother/rougher, but since I don't plan on intently staring at them close up it's not really an issue. I definitely prefer the keycap texture and profile as compared to the fc660m as it is overall smoother and the profile is not as flat on the top surface making for a more natural typing experience. I am definitely in agreement with everyone that we need a two tone white and grey pbt keycap set with dyesub legends!
The feel of topre is something else. Everything everyone says about feeling like the way mx browns should is imo incorrect. There isn't really a tactile point. It feels like if you had a cherry mx black that variably turns into a cherry mx red by the midpoint, the only thing is that they have a tendency to want to bottom out after that. Definitely enjoy your feeling! The sound when they bottom out feels like an angel is gently tapping my eardrum while cherubs giggle and unicorns prance through fields of poppies. My fingertips are happy and all is well with the world.
I received my fc660c today and I am very happy with the purchase. To me the layout is absolutely perfect, everything I need is there (discrete arrows and delete key) and the proximity of the fn key to the arrow keys makes for the most intuitive navigation in a 60% keyboard ever. One thing I want to stress as it is not labeled on the keycaps and I feel is the best thing about the layout is that fn+up/down is pgup/down and fn+left/right is home/end. In case anyone has been on the fence about getting a 60% keyboard, the layout of the fc660 series is the best balance of form and function while still staying similar to standard keyboards. This was important to me as I did not want to develop muscle memory for shortcuts that would not carry over to RL.
The quality is very similar to the korean made fc660m. The board feels very solid, it's nice and heavy and it doesn't have a creak when squeeze it. The key caps are quite decent, if only the legends were not going to wear away I would be completely satisfied. The only other caveat is that the texture on the keycaps is not consistent. Certain areas are a little smoother/rougher, but since I don't plan on intently staring at them close up it's not really an issue. I definitely prefer the keycap texture and profile as compared to the fc660m as it is overall smoother and the profile is not as flat on the top surface making for a more natural typing experience. I am definitely in agreement with everyone that we need a two tone white and grey pbt keycap set with dyesub legends!
The feel of topre is something else. Everything everyone says about feeling like the way mx browns should is imo incorrect. There isn't really a tactile point. It feels like if you had a cherry mx black that variably turns into a cherry mx red by the midpoint, the only thing is that they have a tendency to want to bottom out after that. Definitely enjoy your feeling! The sound when they bottom out feels like an angel is gently tapping my eardrum while cherubs giggle and unicorns prance through fields of poppies. My fingertips are happy and all is well with the world.
Wow! Yet another overwhelmingly positive review of the FC660C.
I'm almost regretting getting this HHKB now. Almost. I got this just before the FC660C was available, plus this is the white HHKB and white FC660C is not yet available. So for now I am happy with my HHKB.
Wow! Yet another overwhelmingly positive review of the FC660C.
I'm almost regretting getting this HHKB now. Almost. I got this just before the FC660C was available, plus this is the white HHKB and white FC660C is not yet available. So for now I am happy with my HHKB.
Well, after getting countless numbers of recommendations to try the HHKB Pro 2, I finally placed the order, and it arrived today. For anyone who might be interested, I have posted a review on GH:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48804.msg1049426#msg1049426
All things considered, I like the HHKB Pro 2 better than my Leopold FC660C. I did not expect this to be the case; I was pleasantly surprised. Adaptation to the layout and lack of arrow keys was amazingly fast. Moreover, one of the bonuses is that the stock keycaps are stellar, and replacement sets are available in printed or non-printed white/light gray or dark gray.
HHKB 2 has been out since March 2006. Isn't it time for a HHKB 3?
HHKB 2 has been out since March 2006. Isn't it time for a HHKB 3?
HHKB 2 has been out since March 2006. Isn't it time for a HHKB 3?
How can you improve on perfection?
Well, after getting countless numbers of recommendations to try the HHKB Pro 2, I finally placed the order, and it arrived today. For anyone who might be interested, I have posted a review on GH:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48804.msg1049426#msg1049426
All things considered, I like the HHKB Pro 2 better than my Leopold FC660C. I did not expect this to be the case; I was pleasantly surprised. Adaptation to the layout and lack of arrow keys was amazingly fast. Moreover, one of the bonuses is that the stock keycaps are stellar, and replacement sets are available in printed or non-printed white/light gray or dark gray.
HHKB 2 has been out since March 2006. Isn't it time for a HHKB 3?HHKB 2 has been out since March 2006. Isn't it time for a HHKB 3?
How can you improve on perfection?
Giving a 55g option? And making the Control to Capslock...or better yet...make it backspace.Well, after getting countless numbers of recommendations to try the HHKB Pro 2, I finally placed the order, and it arrived today. For anyone who might be interested, I have posted a review on GH:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48804.msg1049426#msg1049426
All things considered, I like the HHKB Pro 2 better than my Leopold FC660C. I did not expect this to be the case; I was pleasantly surprised. Adaptation to the layout and lack of arrow keys was amazingly fast. Moreover, one of the bonuses is that the stock keycaps are stellar, and replacement sets are available in printed or non-printed white/light gray or dark gray.
Great review! I for one can adjust to the layout for the HHKB considering I was able to navigate with ease on a Poker X.
HHKB 2 has been out since March 2006. Isn't it time for a HHKB 3?HHKB 2 has been out since March 2006. Isn't it time for a HHKB 3?
How can you improve on perfection?
Giving a 55g option? And making the Control to Capslock...or better yet...make it backspace.Well, after getting countless numbers of recommendations to try the HHKB Pro 2, I finally placed the order, and it arrived today. For anyone who might be interested, I have posted a review on GH:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48804.msg1049426#msg1049426
All things considered, I like the HHKB Pro 2 better than my Leopold FC660C. I did not expect this to be the case; I was pleasantly surprised. Adaptation to the layout and lack of arrow keys was amazingly fast. Moreover, one of the bonuses is that the stock keycaps are stellar, and replacement sets are available in printed or non-printed white/light gray or dark gray.
Great review! I for one can adjust to the layout for the HHKB considering I was able to navigate with ease on a Poker X.
Or make it programmable like the Poker II. I would have bought an HHKB if there was a way to turn on a program layer and have the arrow keys be something else.
Regarding arrow (cursor) keys, I have now had an opportunity to do more testing with the HHKB Pro 2 and KeyReMap4MacBook software for the Mac. Using the DIP switches on the keyboard, I can remap the left Command (Diamond) key to an extra Fn key, so that I can control the cursor diamond from either the left or the right. Moreover, using the software, I have 14 built-in choices for arrow (cursor) keys, including choices of modifiers and WASD, EXSD, RVDF, ESDF, and IJKL. I could write even more custom choices by modifying the XML configuration file.
Although I rather like Control_L+IKJL, I have mostly been using the default Fn+[/;'. After using the HHKB Pro 2 for only a few days, I now prefer it over the Leopold FC660C and even my IBM SSK. This surprised me, because I thought I would have had trouble adjusting to the differences in layout and the absence of dedicated arrow keys, but the HHKB Pro 2 is amazingly intuitive. Its styling, minimalism, feel, sound, and efficiency combine to make this keyboard a joy to use.
When I use the default right-Fn, I use the pinky for Fn and index and middle fingers for the arrows. However, using the add-on software for the Mac, I have several choices for an inverted-T, for which I would use three fingers as you described. I have not yet had a chance to look into Windows-based software for remapping keys.Regarding arrow (cursor) keys, I have now had an opportunity to do more testing with the HHKB Pro 2 and KeyReMap4MacBook software for the Mac. Using the DIP switches on the keyboard, I can remap the left Command (Diamond) key to an extra Fn key, so that I can control the cursor diamond from either the left or the right. Moreover, using the software, I have 14 built-in choices for arrow (cursor) keys, including choices of modifiers and WASD, EXSD, RVDF, ESDF, and IJKL. I could write even more custom choices by modifying the XML configuration file.
Although I rather like Control_L+IKJL, I have mostly been using the default Fn+[/;'. After using the HHKB Pro 2 for only a few days, I now prefer it over the Leopold FC660C and even my IBM SSK. This surprised me, because I thought I would have had trouble adjusting to the differences in layout and the absence of dedicated arrow keys, but the HHKB Pro 2 is amazingly intuitive. Its styling, minimalism, feel, sound, and efficiency combine to make this keyboard a joy to use.
What fingers do you use for the Fn+[/; arrows? Pinky on the FN key and then just your index finger on the arrows?
The reason I think I'd have difficulty adjusting is that I am very used to using 3 fingers (index, middle and ring) in the inverted-T layout. And I use the arrow keys a lot when editing documents.
Sorry to bring out such an old topic, I think it's better to ask here than to open a new topic..
I've recently bought the FC660M, and I must say I absolutely love the keycaps on it. That isn't standard profile, no way to purchase a backup set somewhere?
necro bump yay. so just got my FC660C and seem a bit sad there doesn't seem to be any option for the modifiers on it in terms of keycaps, is this still the case or am i not looking correctly? i seem to have found an artisan that may have done some at some point, does anyone know if there are any other artisans out there who will do a commision job for just some modifiers? can get blank sets of other topre boards that will work on this but modifiers seem the biggest pain.