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geekhack Marketplace => Group Buys and Preorders => Topic started by: sherryton on Wed, 18 September 2013, 18:40:11

Title: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sherryton on Wed, 18 September 2013, 18:40:11
A repost from my originative's subforum.

This is a group buy for either the Filco or Realforce Aluminum Cases.  For this group buy to pass, we need 12 orders in either of the cases to proceed with that particular case.  The pricing is as follows:

Realforce 86/87: $225
Filco Majestouch 87: $210

Shipping will cost approximately $10 for each board from South Korea.

Realforce 86/87: $235
Filco Majestouch 87: $220
The price does not include shipping.  The group buy ends on the 22nd of this month.  I am sorry for the short notice. 

Here are the information for the Realforce and Filco:

http://kbdmod.com/web/detailimg/RealForce_DB.jpg
http://kbdmod.com/web/detailimg/Maje_DB.jpg

Filco Aluminum Case

- Solid 2 Piece Aluminum Construction
- Silver or Black Aluminum Case for Filco TKL Keyboards
- Easy to Assemble

Realforce Aluminum Case

- Solid 2 Piece Aluminum Construction
- Silver/Black Aluminum Case for either Realforce 86 or 87 Key layout
- Provides 3 different degree slope of cases through the keyboard feet
- Dip switches hole on the bottom case
- Easy to assemble


Please let me know if you are interested.  Message me with the title of either of the cases, and if I get more than 10 messages, then I will proceed to collect money through PayPal or Amazon Payments.

Filco: 10
Realforce: 6

Interest Check

KMAC Pad: 8
KMAC Mini
KMAC Happy
Accessories

http://kbdmod.co.kr/web/detailimg/KMAC%20PAD_DB.jpg
http://kbdmod.co.kr/web/detailimg/KMAC%20MINI_DB.jpg
http://kbdmod.co.kr/web/detailimg/KMAC%20HAPPY_DB_2.jpg

Disclaimer: The Filco aluminum case DOES NOT fit a Phantom PCB.  PCB and Plates are not included.
Update: I'm actually sending him a Phantom PCB, so he can make it work.  There is no guarantee yet, but the case does not fit the Phantom at the moment.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Latin00032 on Wed, 18 September 2013, 19:43:49
So, you need at least 12 orders by the 22nd.

The cases look nice.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: ___q on Wed, 18 September 2013, 19:47:12
I hope this goes through (for the RF cases), because if not I'm going to be tempted to get my hands on one of the digilog cases somehow  :blank:
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Leslieann on Wed, 18 September 2013, 20:04:51
Before anyone asks, the Vortex/Filco Universal plate adapters would allow a Universal plate to be used with these, however a Phantom PCB would still not fit due to case depth.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Neal on Wed, 18 September 2013, 20:49:58
How much would shipping to Europe be? Specifically The Netherlands.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Rabbit on Wed, 18 September 2013, 20:52:02
 :(Acturelly,  :(I think you should ship all the key sets first.

 :(That is something a lot of people paid long time ago. :(
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sherryton on Wed, 18 September 2013, 21:08:44
:(Acturelly,  :(I think you should ship all the key sets first.

 :(That is something a lot of people paid long time ago. :(

The keyset is already packaged, and it's only awaiting a fixed item from GMK.  I am not sure if you had pre ordered, but I believe people understand the update. 

How much would shipping to Europe be? Specifically The Netherlands.

The shipping to The Netherlands is approximately $48 Priority (6-10 Days) or $60 Express (3-5 Days). 
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: danielucf on Thu, 19 September 2013, 01:46:32
Realforce 86/87: $225
Filco Majestouch 87: $210

Shipping will cost approximately $10 for each board from South Korea.

Realforce 86/87: $235
Filco Majestouch 87: $220
The price does not include shipping.  The group buy ends on the 22nd of this month.  I am sorry for the short notice. 

How come price is shown twice as two different amounts? It looks like $225 with $10 shipping, but then says $235 and underneath that says price does not include shipping. So pretty much is it $235 or $245 shipped for a Topre case?
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: norbauer on Thu, 19 September 2013, 02:38:19
I've read that it's possible to get the Realforce cases without the (ugly) engraved lettering on them. You might want to offer that as an option, if possible.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sherryton on Thu, 19 September 2013, 04:27:14
Realforce 86/87: $225
Filco Majestouch 87: $210

Shipping will cost approximately $10 for each board from South Korea.

Realforce 86/87: $235
Filco Majestouch 87: $220
The price does not include shipping.  The group buy ends on the 22nd of this month.  I am sorry for the short notice. 

How come price is shown twice as two different amounts? It looks like $225 with $10 shipping, but then says $235 and underneath that says price does not include shipping. So pretty much is it $235 or $245 shipped for a Topre case?

The shipping to transport the item to the US will be added. 

I've read that it's possible to get the Realforce cases without the (ugly) engraved lettering on them. You might want to offer that as an option, if possible.

Yeah, that's highly possible.  I already talked to them about that.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: LechnerDE on Thu, 19 September 2013, 07:36:57
I'd be interested but paying for shipping to the US plus shipping it back to EU is just not worth it for me.

I prefer the way IMSTO sold the cases: Direct shipping from Asia to all customers.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: tricheboars on Thu, 19 September 2013, 09:52:25
where are these koreans getting all these custom topre keycaps? seriously. where?

the boards on that kbdmod site have so many different colors. the only way i can see this being feasible is if you order a 100$ set of each color and combine them.  which is ****ing nuts.

the lack of cap customization is one of the main reasons i stick to Cherry MX.  i guess i just have to except that Koreans get all the fancy keyboard toys.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: ___q on Thu, 19 September 2013, 10:18:54
where are these koreans getting all these custom topre keycaps? seriously. where?

the boards on that kbdmod site have so many different colors. the only way i can see this being feasible is if you order a 100$ set of each color and combine them.  which is ****ing nuts.

the lack of cap customization is one of the main reasons i stick to Cherry MX.  i guess i just have to except that Koreans get all the fancy keyboard toys.

<embarrassed> Some of us have bought multiple ~$100 sets of MX keycaps to combine them  :blank: </embarrassed>

(granted, it was "only" a BSP dyesub set and a Desko set, but still)
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: yicaoyimu on Thu, 19 September 2013, 11:43:16
I would get a RF case if not for the fact that I am into Ergodox now and that I am poor.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: danielucf on Thu, 19 September 2013, 11:44:32
The shipping to transport the item to the US will be added. 

So what price is someone looking at to get the case to their door in the US?
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: dorkvader on Thu, 19 September 2013, 13:41:39
Before anyone asks, the Vortex/Filco Universal plate adapters would allow a Universal plate to be used with these, however a Phantom PCB would still not fit due to case depth.

I don't think a phantom will fit at all due to the teensy sticking out the back.

That said, a qfr might fit if you either tapped some new holes or just went without all the pcb mounting holes. I'll have to look more closely.

Edit: "due to case depth" I just misunderstood you at first, and we are in agreement.

Edit: potentially good news!
I just got an update.  The Realforce logo can be removed.  I can also try to send him a Phantom PCB to redesign the Filco case, but it will delay the Filco aluminum case, and I would need a higher quantity to start a group buy.

Post messages below if you prefer it that way.

I am sending him the Phantom tomorrow.  Lets see how that goes.

Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: badboybry9000 on Thu, 19 September 2013, 14:40:43
Interested. I'm hoping this goes through regardless of the shipping price. I've been wanting an aluminum case but am very wary of the Vortex cases. These cases look like they're extremely well made.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Rendom on Thu, 19 September 2013, 14:55:37
Can they ship to Asia country? Instead of US? B
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sherryton on Thu, 19 September 2013, 16:07:48
The shipping to transport the item to the US will be added. 

So what price is someone looking at to get the case to their door in the US?

I think I will have to ship through the Board size large flat rate.  That is an extra $16.

Can they ship to Asia country? Instead of US? B

You would have to order directly order from the KBDMod if you would like that.  I am not sure if he even sells to outside of South Korea.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 19 September 2013, 16:57:25
Sheraton,

It is good to see a special product for a Realforce board. I like the case, and I am seriously thinking of buying it.

However, now that I have decided to adopt Topre-switch boards rather than Cherry-switch boards, my main frustration has been the relative lack of high-quality dye-sub PBT keycaps for Topre switches. So, my question is, Would you be able to get Topre keycap sets? I would be very interested. In particular, I would like to find some 1.25x modifiers (or keycaps that could be used in place of modifiers) for the bottom row of the Leopold FC660C.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: ComradeSniper on Thu, 19 September 2013, 17:08:16
I sent you a PM a couple days ago sherry, please check it out if you get a chance. Sorry to clog up this thread.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 19 September 2013, 17:26:12
For the RF case, I would like to add to the vote to have No Engraving as an option.

If this is not an option, I would go with the black RF case, so that the engraving would be much less visible than it is on the sliver-Aluminum finish.

Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sherryton on Thu, 19 September 2013, 18:46:11
I sent you a PM a couple days ago sherry, please check it out if you get a chance. Sorry to clog up this thread.

Responded

For the RF case, I would like to add to the vote to have No Engraving as an option.

If this is not an option, I would go with the black RF case, so that the engraving would be much less visible than it is on the sliver-Aluminum finish.



We are only doing this case WITHOUT the engraving for now.

If you guys are interested in the HHKMAC, KMAC Mini, KMAC Pad, or KMAC 1.2.

Please comment below.  I'll try to get an interest check for those items.

As of right now, we have 4 committed to the Filco and 4 to the Realforce.


Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: ComradeSniper on Thu, 19 September 2013, 19:13:30

If you guys are interested in the HHKMAC, KMAC Mini, KMAC Pad, or KMAC 1.2.

Please comment below.  I'll try to get an interest check for those items.

Definitely interested in the KMAC Pad. Wish I could do the KMAC Mini as well but I'm not sure that finances will permit.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Jokrik on Thu, 19 September 2013, 20:08:14
Count me in for KMAC Pad!
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: ___q on Thu, 19 September 2013, 20:17:01
Sheraton,

It is good to see a special product for a Realforce board. I like the case, and I am seriously thinking of buying it.

However, now that I have decided to adopt Topre-switch boards rather than Cherry-switch boards, my main frustration has been the relative lack of high-quality dye-sub PBT keycaps for Topre switches. So, my question is, Would you be able to get Topre keycap sets? I would be very interested. In particular, I would like to find some 1.25x modifiers (or keycaps that could be used in place of modifiers) for the bottom row of the Leopold FC660C.

Thanks.

There's really no way to get new keycaps right now, only leopold (I think) manufactures topre keycaps at all, and the EK guy hasn't been able to convince them to take an order from him for a long time.  Both EK and various sellers on Taobao are equally out of stock of the "good" colors, and that's just for 87U/104U caps.

AFAIK, no non-stock-colored modifiers for the FC660C exist at all, not even on weird boards like the sony BKE line or the utron :(
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: akuji13 on Fri, 20 September 2013, 00:42:11
the boards on that kbdmod site have so many different colors. the only way i can see this being feasible is if you order a 100$ set of each color and combine them.  which is ****ing nuts.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Full-Aluminum-Keyboard-Housing-with-USB-2-0-HUB-for-Topre-Realforce-87U-/161065495665?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item2580406c71

That colour whould be nice. ;)

@topic

Interested in 1 Filco case (silver).

Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: HendyZone on Fri, 20 September 2013, 00:51:09
in for KMAC PAD sherryton  :p
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: danielucf on Fri, 20 September 2013, 01:03:20
Alright I register my interest for a topre aluminum case.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: bahamot on Fri, 20 September 2013, 01:04:32
Interested on kmac pad as well. But depends on the price as well :p
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: demik on Fri, 20 September 2013, 01:08:16
Sheraton,

It is good to see a special product for a Realforce board. I like the case, and I am seriously thinking of buying it.

However, now that I have decided to adopt Topre-switch boards rather than Cherry-switch boards, my main frustration has been the relative lack of high-quality dye-sub PBT keycaps for Topre switches. So, my question is, Would you be able to get Topre keycap sets? I would be very interested. In particular, I would like to find some 1.25x modifiers (or keycaps that could be used in place of modifiers) for the bottom row of the Leopold FC660C.

Thanks.

not going to happen, at least not through sherryton.

IIRC, leopold/rf said they'd only sell through their authorized dealers (EK being the US dealer) and we had a hard time trying to getting EK to do topre red alert.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: dorkvader on Fri, 20 September 2013, 02:19:03
Make sure to keep us updated on the possibility of adding phantom compatibility. I'll take switches out of mine to use this case.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: gameaholic on Fri, 20 September 2013, 03:16:24
I'm interested in a Kmac pad in Titanium.  These cases look really nice.  They seem to be higher quality than the Vortex ones.   
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sherryton on Fri, 20 September 2013, 04:02:47
Make sure to keep us updated on the possibility of adding phantom compatibility. I'll take switches out of mine to use this case.

Yeah, I'll keep updating you guys!
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sherryton on Fri, 20 September 2013, 06:18:48
Alright I register my interest for a topre aluminum case.

It's not really an interest check.  Hopefully we can reach these numbers by the end of the week.

The interest check for the other items though.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: badboybry9000 on Fri, 20 September 2013, 08:00:58
Ahhhhh I'm getting worried! The number committed went down to 2?
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sherryton on Fri, 20 September 2013, 08:10:20
Ahhhhh I'm getting worried! The number committed went down to 2?

Might have been a mistake.  One more comment, and I'm done commenting for life.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: 500_pts on Fri, 20 September 2013, 15:47:23
Super interested in both the KMAC Pad and the   >>>>>>KMAC Happy!!!!!!!!<<<<<<
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: danielucf on Fri, 20 September 2013, 17:38:39
So let me see if I understand pricing:
If we get 12 people the RF board will be $225 + $10 shipping. If we do not get 12 people then it will be $235 + $10 shipping?
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: ComradeSniper on Fri, 20 September 2013, 18:50:34
So let me see if I understand pricing:
If we get 12 people the RF board will be $225 + $10 shipping. If we do not get 12 people then it will be $235 + $10 shipping?

I believe $225 is without shipping to Sheraton, and $235 is with shipping to Sheraton but not to you.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: chongu on Fri, 20 September 2013, 19:13:27
How much for a Kmac pad? Approximately xD
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sherryton on Fri, 20 September 2013, 19:41:02
So let me see if I understand pricing:
If we get 12 people the RF board will be $225 + $10 shipping. If we do not get 12 people then it will be $235 + $10 shipping?

If we do not get 12 people, then this will not happen.  This might not go through because it's too short of a period. The shipping for the products to get to me is going to cost somewhere between $150-200.  I will probably collect the money afterwards with the shipping to you, but I just wanted you guys to know ahead of time. 

How much for a Kmac pad? Approximately xD

Approximately $170, and I believe we need around 30 people.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: witbliz on Fri, 20 September 2013, 21:21:14
Interested in the KMAC PAD
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: brighenne on Sat, 21 September 2013, 00:50:31
Also interested in kmac pad
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Sephiroth on Sat, 21 September 2013, 01:06:08
I am interested in Filco aluminum case with silver color, PMed

I have one question, do i need anything else to replace the case? It is my first time to assemble the keyboard if i get this case.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sherryton on Sat, 21 September 2013, 01:13:33
I am interested in Filco aluminum case with silver color, PMed

I have one question, do i need anything else to replace the case? It is my first time to assemble the keyboard if i get this case.

It's pretty easy, but you have void the warranty for your Filco.  There is a small sticker in the back.  If you go through it, there is a screw.  You unscrew it, open the case (it's kind of tricky), remove the innards, and put them in the aluminum case.

A great friend of ours has a tutorial here,

That knife part is very tricky.  It took me awhile to get it open, but it's really once you get it open. 
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Acanthophis on Sat, 21 September 2013, 01:31:04
Interested in a KMAC Pad, but buy depends on price.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: isman on Sat, 21 September 2013, 02:25:26
Does the Kpad come only in silver ?
I remember seeing a red one, and would be really interested in one.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Sephiroth on Sat, 21 September 2013, 02:27:32
Ok, let me make sure plz.

If there are less than 12 people after 22nd of September, will you still collect the cases? I really want this one lol
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: ___q on Sat, 21 September 2013, 02:44:11
Ok, let me make sure plz.

If there are less than 12 people after 22nd of September, will you still collect the cases? I really want this one lol

If we do not get 12 people, then this will not happen.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Sephiroth on Sat, 21 September 2013, 02:44:57
Ok, let me make sure plz.

If there are less than 12 people after 22nd of September, will you still collect the cases? I really want this one lol

If we do not get 12 people, then this will not happen.

QQ
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sheknet on Sat, 21 September 2013, 02:50:09
I am interested in Filco aluminum case with silver color, PMed

I have one question, do i need anything else to replace the case? It is my first time to assemble the keyboard if i get this case.

It's pretty easy, but you have void the warranty for your Filco.  There is a small sticker in the back.  If you go through it, there is a screw.  You unscrew it, open the case (it's kind of tricky), remove the innards, and put them in the aluminum case.

A great friend of ours has a tutorial here,

That knife part is very tricky.  It took me awhile to get it open, but it's really once you get it open. 


sherry, when are you expecting to get the stock from Korea?

Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: aj-kun on Sat, 21 September 2013, 03:50:20
registering my interest for a KMAC MINI
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: CommonCurt on Sat, 21 September 2013, 04:02:19
I really like the black Filco case. Let me see how much money I can get together. So it will be $220 shipped. Correct?
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Sephiroth on Sat, 21 September 2013, 04:10:55
I really like the black Filco case. Let me see how much money I can get together. So it will be $220 shipped. Correct?

at least more than 235, excluding shipping, the shipping fee will be devided into the amount of buyers, might be roughly $20 i think
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sherryton on Sat, 21 September 2013, 04:47:17
Does the Kpad come only in silver ?
I remember seeing a red one, and would be really interested in one.


I am sure we can get one in red now.

I am interested in Filco aluminum case with silver color, PMed

I have one question, do i need anything else to replace the case? It is my first time to assemble the keyboard if i get this case.

It's pretty easy, but you have void the warranty for your Filco.  There is a small sticker in the back.  If you go through it, there is a screw.  You unscrew it, open the case (it's kind of tricky), remove the innards, and put them in the aluminum case.

A great friend of ours has a tutorial here,

That knife part is very tricky.  It took me awhile to get it open, but it's really once you get it open. 


sherry, when are you expecting to get the stock from Korea?



Depends if this goes through or not.  It usually takes 1 month.

I really like the black Filco case. Let me see how much money I can get together. So it will be $220 shipped. Correct?

$220 + shipping from South Korea to my location + my location to your house.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: jalaj on Sun, 22 September 2013, 11:42:20
Sherryton,
You should convince the KBDmod source(s) to do HHKB2 custom cases (different colors, etc.).
related thread from 2011 here: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=20477.0
A HHKB2 custom case would easily sell well as the demand is there. IMO, HHKB2 owners are more than willing to drop $ to trick out their KB. Currently there is no HHKB2 custom case available. Whereas the interest for the custom RF86U/RF87U case in your GB might be met with some hesitancy as there already is an alternative product available. As long as the price point is right, I think you'll also lure buyers who wouldn't normally bling out their KBs willing to purchase the product and also OCD buyers (myself included) who would buy multiple color cases to match the flavor of the day, week, month, etc.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: demik on Sun, 22 September 2013, 11:59:02
I dont think you understand how difficult and expensive a hhkb case will be.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 22 September 2013, 12:01:46
Sherryton,
You should convince the KBDmod source(s) to do HHKB2 custom cases (different colors, etc.).
related thread from 2011 here: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=20477.0
A HHKB2 custom case would easily sell well as the demand is there. IMO, HHKB2 owners are more than willing to drop $ to trick out their KB. Currently there is no HHKB2 custom case available. Whereas the interest for the custom RF86U/RF87U case in your GB might be met with some hesitancy as there already is an alternative product available. As long as the price point is right, I think you'll also lure buyers who wouldn't normally bling out their KBs willing to purchase the product and also OCD buyers (myself included) who would buy multiple color cases to match the flavor of the day, week, month, etc.

Thanks! You read my mind. Just yesterday I sent Sherryton a PM asking if he might be able to get aluminum cases for the HHKB Pro 2. I think there would be a market for this and that it would sell better than cases for the RF 87u.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: ___q on Sun, 22 September 2013, 12:04:13
Yeah, the bottom? part of the case acts as the "plate" on the HHKB, right?  A custom case is unlikely to pull that off (for any reasonable amount of money, at least).
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 22 September 2013, 15:27:16
Yeah, the bottom? part of the case acts as the "plate" on the HHKB, right?  A custom case is unlikely to pull that off (for any reasonable amount of money, at least).

Yes, I think that is correct. It has been pointed out to me that the Topre switches in the HHKB Pro 2 are case-mounted. I have not tried taking the HHKB Pro 2 apart to see just how the mounting is done and if it might be possible to separate the switch-mounting part of the case from the rest of the case.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: moogle on Sun, 22 September 2013, 16:16:20
KMAC Pad +1
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Sephiroth on Sun, 22 September 2013, 18:09:56
well, as i see it, there are 6+6 of alu cases members by now, so sherryton, are you gonna collect the cases from South Korea? I really don't want to miss it
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: ___q on Sun, 22 September 2013, 18:30:07
well, as i see it, there are 6+6 of alu cases members by now, so sherryton, are you gonna collect the cases from South Korea? I really don't want to miss it

I believe there need to be 12 orders of the same model (12 RF or 12 filco), not 12 total.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sherryton on Sun, 22 September 2013, 19:35:56
Sherryton,
You should convince the KBDmod source(s) to do HHKB2 custom cases (different colors, etc.).
related thread from 2011 here: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=20477.0
A HHKB2 custom case would easily sell well as the demand is there. IMO, HHKB2 owners are more than willing to drop $ to trick out their KB. Currently there is no HHKB2 custom case available. Whereas the interest for the custom RF86U/RF87U case in your GB might be met with some hesitancy as there already is an alternative product available. As long as the price point is right, I think you'll also lure buyers who wouldn't normally bling out their KBs willing to purchase the product and also OCD buyers (myself included) who would buy multiple color cases to match the flavor of the day, week, month, etc.

You should try disassembling a HHKB, it's not that easy!
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sherryton on Sun, 22 September 2013, 19:37:24
well, as i see it, there are 6+6 of alu cases members by now, so sherryton, are you gonna collect the cases from South Korea? I really don't want to miss it

I believe there need to be 12 orders of the same model (12 RF or 12 filco), not 12 total.

Hopefully I can delay kbdmod because they are planning to test the Phantom.  I will see the news when they receive it.  This will bring up the sales of the Filco, but it might need to be redesigned.  Either they raise the bottom case to a higher platform or they cut out a whole in the bottom.  I prefer more for them to cut out the bottom because raising the Filco bottom case would make it look like a KMAC 2.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Dubsgalore on Sun, 22 September 2013, 19:39:23
KPAD might be something i'd look into in the future
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: akuji13 on Mon, 23 September 2013, 03:47:57
I believe there need to be 12 orders of the same model (12 RF or 12 filco), not 12 total.

Hope we get an answer fast, because otherwise i will re-invest the money.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: jalaj on Mon, 23 September 2013, 15:56:46
Yeah, the bottom? part of the case acts as the "plate" on the HHKB, right?  A custom case is unlikely to pull that off (for any reasonable amount of money, at least).

Yes, I think that is correct. It has been pointed out to me that the Topre switches in the HHKB Pro 2 are case-mounted. I have not tried taking the HHKB Pro 2 apart to see just how the mounting is done and if it might be possible to separate the switch-mounting part of the case from the rest of the case.

Yeah, I also confirmed that the switches in the HHKB2 are mounted to the top case itself.
My mistake to think it was as modular like a RF KB, however it can still be done.
So to do a custom for HHKB2 (which would also change the user experience) would require three components:
Component 1 - custom case with metal switch mounting plate (like the Realforce) - $XXX
Component 2 - PCB from the HHKB ~ $260
Component 3 - Topre switches from a donor Realforce KB (or any other keyboard that has removable Topre switches) ~ $220
The user experience would change due to the move from plastic mounted to metal plate mounted, so no more thock.
Also the price for an individual to compile the parts for one KB is high, if a small group decide to purchase a few donor KBs to share switches then that would lower the cost. Though I think there will be other users interested in buying unused parts of the HHKBs to keep their own HHKBs looking pristine.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: demik on Mon, 23 September 2013, 16:12:46
There is a metal hhkb. And it's around 1000 bucks. Now I like keyboards as much as the next guy but that is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: cirrus82 on Mon, 23 September 2013, 16:53:48
Any chance to have this for a full size Filco?
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 23 September 2013, 18:45:29
There is a metal hhkb. And it's around 1000 bucks. Now I like keyboards as much as the next guy but that is ridiculous.
Yikes! No wonder we have not seen a plethora of aluminum cases for the HHKB Pro 2 as we have seen for the Poker and its relatives. Perhaps I shall just wrap my HHKB Pro 2 in aluminum foil and call it a day. :(
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sherryton on Tue, 24 September 2013, 03:54:56
KBDMod says this is a go.  I have to start collecting money.  I wrote down the people who were interested, and I will be sending you a message soon.  I'll try to collect it until the end of the week, because I have to spend a lot of time packaging the rest of the Dolch.

Thanks for your patience.  Hopefully, you do not lose interest on the aluminum case.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Sephiroth on Tue, 24 September 2013, 04:01:04
KBDMod says this is a go.  I have to start collecting money.  I wrote down the people who were interested, and I will be sending you a message soon.  I'll try to collect it until the end of the week, because I have to spend a lot of time packaging the rest of the Dolch.

Thanks for your patience.  Hopefully, you do not lose interest on the aluminum case.

hopefully I won't miss it
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: badboybry9000 on Thu, 26 September 2013, 08:21:16
There is no way I will lose interest in that Majestouch case. It looks so nice.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sherryton on Thu, 26 September 2013, 17:43:33
I will be sending payments today.  The KBDMod guy is trying to make the order this week.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Sephiroth on Fri, 27 September 2013, 18:49:57
Hi sherryton, I replied you in PM, I didn't notice that last night, sorry about that.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Moomoo on Sat, 28 September 2013, 03:46:31
In for RF
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sherryton on Sat, 28 September 2013, 05:44:36
Everybody has been invoiced.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: isman on Sat, 28 September 2013, 07:08:17
Everybody has been invoiced.

Did you send any messages about Kpads or only those RF/Filco cases ?
I did not receive anything about the red Kpad :(
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sherryton on Sat, 28 September 2013, 07:34:37
Everybody has been invoiced.

Did you send any messages about Kpads or only those RF/Filco cases ?
I did not receive anything about the red Kpad :(

It is only the Filco / RF cases at the time.  The KMAC Pad needs to reach near 30-35 to proceed.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Acanthophis on Sat, 28 September 2013, 15:18:14
Do you know prices about the KMAC Pad?
Title: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Saviant on Sun, 29 September 2013, 10:32:05
Is it too late to order one of the filco cases? I haven't been logging in and just saw this?
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: jonathanyu on Sun, 29 September 2013, 13:21:40
interest in kmac pad and kmac happy
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sherryton on Sun, 29 September 2013, 15:44:45
Is it too late to order one of the filco cases? I haven't been logging in and just saw this?

Replied to you.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Saviant on Sun, 29 September 2013, 20:21:24
Thanks for the reply, I have sent payment through. Can I get the Black Case as I never mentioned what color (Guess that happens at 1:30am) :)
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sherryton on Sun, 29 September 2013, 23:01:00
I'm trying to receive payments first.  I'm going to gather more information soon after.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: danielucf on Sun, 29 September 2013, 23:59:51
Did you get my information? I never got an invoice.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: loadstar81 on Mon, 30 September 2013, 20:58:43
I think it's a good thing I just found this thread. I don't even own a RF yet but have been eyeing the 87U silent as a work keyboard for a while now. This case + buying the keyboard would hit my wallet pretty hard!
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sherryton on Mon, 30 September 2013, 21:03:16
This group buy is closed!  Please no more pms!

Did you get my information? I never got an invoice.

Invoice has been sent!
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: TLSC.wipeOut on Mon, 30 September 2013, 21:50:14
I would also vote for a KMAC Pad
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: akuji13 on Tue, 01 October 2013, 00:52:00
This group buy is closed!  Please no more pms!

Did you get my information? I never got an invoice.

Invoice has been sent!

I also did not receive an invoice!  :eek:
Please send me one.  :-*
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sherryton on Tue, 01 October 2013, 00:59:56
This group buy is closed!  Please no more pms!

Did you get my information? I never got an invoice.

Invoice has been sent!

I also did not receive an invoice!  :eek:
Please send me one.  :-*

I do not think you ever pmed me.  Did you ever message me you wanted one?  I never got one from you.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: akuji13 on Tue, 01 October 2013, 01:22:12
Never send an pm, thats correct...thought that my post on page 1 was enough.  :eek: :blank:
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sherryton on Tue, 01 October 2013, 02:17:15
Never send an pm, thats correct...thought that my post on page 1 was enough.  :eek: :blank:

Invoiced, this is the last one!
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: akuji13 on Tue, 01 October 2013, 02:44:38
PM sent! :)

EDIT: and paid. :)
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Moomoo on Tue, 01 October 2013, 06:12:21
PAID! can't wait
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: danielucf on Tue, 01 October 2013, 11:44:47
Paid, looking forward to have a nice and solid Topre (not that it isn't already pretty solid, but aluminum is the bomb)
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sherryton on Tue, 01 October 2013, 15:49:50
Paid, looking forward to have a nice and solid Topre (not that it isn't already pretty solid, but aluminum is the bomb)

Me too :)

I Just bought a RF Anniversary Edition from a friend.

I just need to find a Filco Linear R edition now...
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: iammbox on Thu, 03 October 2013, 15:05:24
damn being AWOL from geekhack :(
these cases look awesome!
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: gameaholic on Fri, 04 October 2013, 03:03:35
Paid for black Filco case.  Should look good with my ninja keycaps.  Now I just need a nice replacement cable for it. 
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Ryan Uber on Sun, 06 October 2013, 00:58:21
Psyched for this case! Since this buy is closed, any idea when these will be in production?

Also, I didn't see if there was closure on phantom compatibility. I would personally prefer the lower-profile design for the same reasons as sherryton stated:

Quote
Either they raise the bottom case to a higher platform or they cut out a whole in the bottom.  I prefer more for them to cut out the bottom because raising the Filco bottom case would make it look like a KMAC 2.

The design looks awesome in the pictures - hoping the overall look doesn't change too much  :)
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Ryan Uber on Sun, 06 October 2013, 00:59:01
Might also be helpful to have a list of orders in the OP or something so that people can verify what they ordered.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: brighenne on Sun, 06 October 2013, 02:41:19
Paid, looking forward to have a nice and solid Topre (not that it isn't already pretty solid, but aluminum is the bomb)

Me too :)

I Just bought a RF Anniversary Edition from a friend.

I just need to find a Filco Linear R edition now...

I have a filco linear r I need to get rid of...
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sherryton on Sun, 06 October 2013, 03:27:14
Might also be helpful to have a list of orders in the OP or something so that people can verify what they ordered.

I already e-mailed people about that.  I'll send another e-mail to the next round of people
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: LONGZILLA on Sun, 06 October 2013, 21:22:46
Didn't see this before, but throwing out interest in either/both the KMAC Happy or Pad.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: brighenne on Sun, 06 October 2013, 22:23:25
How many do we need for KMAC pad?  I am most likely going to get custom anodizing on my KMAC and want to do them both if this goes through!
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: yicaoyimu on Sun, 06 October 2013, 23:48:10
Sherryton, what is the MOQ for KMAC mini? This is my dream board and I want it so bad. But seems like I am the only one interested...

EDIT: Wouldn't it be better to post a separate IC thread so maybe more people will notice and join?
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Sephiroth on Mon, 07 October 2013, 00:12:47
sherry when will the products be ready to deliver?
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sherryton on Mon, 07 October 2013, 00:20:33
Most of the items need to reach around 35 MOQ.  I think I can my friend down a bit.

sherry when will the products be ready to deliver?

The guy is really fast.  He usually takes around 1 month.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: deSheol on Mon, 07 October 2013, 00:26:16
Have you received anything back from them yet? About Filco Case compatibility with Phantom?
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: ComradeSniper on Mon, 07 October 2013, 00:26:51
Sherryton, what is the MOQ for KMAC mini? This is my dream board and I want it so bad. But seems like I am the only one interested...

EDIT: Wouldn't it be better to post a separate IC thread so maybe more people will notice and join?

I agree.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: LONGZILLA on Mon, 07 October 2013, 00:37:14
Sherryton, what is the MOQ for KMAC mini? This is my dream board and I want it so bad. But seems like I am the only one interested...

EDIT: Wouldn't it be better to post a separate IC thread so maybe more people will notice and join?

I agree.

Yeah, a separate thread for KMAC specific IC would be ideal
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: yicaoyimu on Mon, 07 October 2013, 00:37:27
Most of the items need to reach around 35 MOQ.  I think I can my friend down a bit.

sherry when will the products be ready to deliver?

The guy is really fast.  He usually takes around 1 month.

35 is really high. I don't think there could be a GB for KMAC mini then...

How long would you wait before actually starting the GB?
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sherryton on Mon, 07 October 2013, 00:44:36
Have you received anything back from them yet? About Filco Case compatibility with Phantom?

Not yet.  It's not compatible for sure, but he has to readjust it.  I think now that the Filco order went through, then it will most likely not happen anymore.

Sherryton, what is the MOQ for KMAC mini? This is my dream board and I want it so bad. But seems like I am the only one interested...

EDIT: Wouldn't it be better to post a separate IC thread so maybe more people will notice and join?

I agree.

Yeah, a separate thread for KMAC specific IC would be ideal

I'll consider this, but I'm trying to run something else besides the KMAC right now.

Most of the items need to reach around 35 MOQ.  I think I can my friend down a bit.

sherry when will the products be ready to deliver?

The guy is really fast.  He usually takes around 1 month.

35 is really high. I don't think there could be a GB for KMAC mini then...

How long would you wait before actually starting the GB?

I would need to start an interest check  first.  The KMAC Pad seems to happen even more so.  I will start an interest check in the KMAC Pad GB.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: redskull on Mon, 07 October 2013, 07:08:30
Most of the items need to reach around 35 MOQ.  I think I can my friend down a bit.

sherry when will the products be ready to deliver?

The guy is really fast.  He usually takes around 1 month.
hi sherryton,

will this filco aluminium case fit ducky tkl pcb's?
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Soulpyre on Mon, 07 October 2013, 09:06:13
I would be interested in a Ti-KPAD as well.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: MKULTRA on Mon, 07 October 2013, 10:08:12
Interested in a KMAC Mini
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 07 October 2013, 10:12:21
Paid, looking forward to have a nice and solid Topre (not that it isn't already pretty solid, but aluminum is the bomb)

Me too :)

I Just bought a RF Anniversary Edition from a friend.

I just need to find a Filco Linear R edition now...

I think I saw a linear R in the classifieds
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Forever on Mon, 07 October 2013, 12:26:48
i want one kmac happy
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Ryan Uber on Mon, 14 October 2013, 00:12:52
Hi Sherryton,
Just wondering how things are going or if there are any updates. If not that's cool too.
Thanks!
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sherryton on Mon, 14 October 2013, 00:34:13
They have not updated me yet
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sherryton on Wed, 23 October 2013, 04:18:09
If you have any questions, then please reply here:

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48669.0
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sheknet on Thu, 07 November 2013, 00:27:58
If you have any questions, then please reply here:

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48669.0

Hello Sherryton, is there any update so far? Thanks.
:)
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sherryton on Thu, 07 November 2013, 00:30:33
If you have any questions, then please reply here:

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48669.0

Hello Sherryton, is there any update so far? Thanks.
:)

Hey sheknet, I updated this awhile ago...

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48669.msg1107247#msg1107247
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sheknet on Thu, 07 November 2013, 00:49:17
If you have any questions, then please reply here:

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48669.0

Hello Sherryton, is there any update so far? Thanks.
:)

Hey sheknet, I updated this awhile ago...

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48669.msg1107247#msg1107247

Yes as said, I didnt notice there is another update post before I posted here, but thanks! :p
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: badboybry9000 on Wed, 13 November 2013, 10:31:28
Just paid for shipping. Thank you for honoring the original $10 shipping quote, sherryton.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Fuzzy Dunlop on Wed, 13 November 2013, 13:17:21
Great looking cases, but $235 for a RF 86/87 case is $10 more than I paid for my entire RF 86 board. At $100 or even $120, the alu case would be a no-brainer, but $235 + shipping? I'll have to pass. :(
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: danielucf on Wed, 13 November 2013, 13:28:53
Great looking cases, but $235 for a RF 86/87 case is $10 more than I paid for my entire RF 86 board. At $100 or even $120, the alu case would be a no-brainer, but $235 + shipping? I'll have to pass. :(

The buy is already over, and for a case as complicated as this the price is actually quite competitive compare to other options that were once closer to $400. Only the simplest of Aluminum cases for 60% boards (less physical material required) run around $100-120.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Keytrun on Wed, 20 November 2013, 01:13:31
So I can't get this anymore? How does this differ from the vortex case? http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=280
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sherryton on Wed, 20 November 2013, 01:19:58
Design and Elevation.

If you noticed on the bottom case, there is a small pipe looking hole.  It's used so that the wires does not get clogged up.  It also makes it so that the bottom housing does not have to be more elevated.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Keytrun on Wed, 20 November 2013, 01:24:56
Yea, I really want it. Is it really nice? Any way to get this still? Maybe someone backed out? I'd be willing to pay more than than the GB was for an unused black one :)
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sherryton on Wed, 20 November 2013, 01:48:17
There are no more available.  I am sorry.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: norbauer on Fri, 22 November 2013, 16:18:49
There are no more available.  I am sorry.

If you're ever able to get another run of these, please let the KBDMOD folks know there is interest. I'd happily take two more Realforces cases (I already have one I got from an individual in Korea).
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: sherryton on Fri, 22 November 2013, 16:46:09
Our next goal is to make this fit the Phantom, but I do not think they ever got the Phantom PCB.  It was probably lost in the mail.  I'll have to make a batch of this or something... haha
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: joneslee85 on Fri, 22 November 2013, 16:51:33
Count me in the KPad and Topre
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Acanthophis on Sun, 24 November 2013, 19:09:30
Our next goal is to make this fit the Phantom, but I do not think they ever got the Phantom PCB.  It was probably lost in the mail.  I'll have to make a batch of this or something... haha
Just order a new one: http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=536
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: PXRaVeR on Sat, 30 November 2013, 11:44:37
Our next goal is to make this fit the Phantom, but I do not think they ever got the Phantom PCB.  It was probably lost in the mail.  I'll have to make a batch of this or something... haha

If that happens im in:
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: TLSC.wipeOut on Sat, 30 November 2013, 14:59:25
Our next goal is to make this fit the Phantom, but I do not think they ever got the Phantom PCB.  It was probably lost in the mail.  I'll have to make a batch of this or something... haha

I'll be waiting for this case for the Phantom =D
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: dorkvader on Sat, 30 November 2013, 15:55:18
Our next goal is to make this fit the Phantom, but I do not think they ever got the Phantom PCB.  It was probably lost in the mail.  I'll have to make a batch of this or something... haha

I'll be waiting for this case for the Phantom =D

Same here: really want to compare to the skeldon.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: dadgh on Sat, 07 December 2013, 18:34:43
Is this ongoing? I'm interested in the KPAD.
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: LechnerDE on Tue, 17 December 2013, 06:31:11
Our next goal is to make this fit the Phantom, but I do not think they ever got the Phantom PCB.  It was probably lost in the mail.  I'll have to make a batch of this or something... haha

I'll be waiting for this case for the Phantom =D

Just posting to express my interest in Aluminium Case that is compatible to the phantom.

Would be even better if it was also compatible with QFRs :)
Title: Re: Filco / Realforce Aluminum Cases
Post by: Wetherbee on Sun, 20 March 2016, 02:27:24

Any chance we can revive a group buy for the Realforce 87U aluminum cases? I'm desperately looking for one.