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[/s]So help me here:
1. ABS? PBT?
2. SA? DSA? DCS?
3. UV Printed? Dye subbed? Double-shot?
4. And the biggest question, legends, what sort of legends would you like?
So help me here:
1. ABS? PBT?
2. SA? DSA? DCS?
3. UV Printed? Dye subbed? Double-shot?
4. And the biggest question, legends, what sort of legends would you like?
Dsa dye sub? wasn't that the $8000 issue?
I love the color scheme. It would be cool to use a font other than the normal Cherry or WYSE font. Maybe something more vintage looking?
So change the color scheme a bit? Replace the grey with 66 46 66?
Firstly, OMG YES.
I am an obsessive TNG fan—have been almost all my life. I also own an original LCARS back-light Okudagram from the set with the full range of colors and am happy to share photos and to assist in screen-accurate color matching. I actually have spent much of my career thinking about the LCARS interface and how best to translate that vision and aesthetic into contemporary technology (happy to discuss, but I'll save the details for another venue). I also have a lot of experience building screen-accurate Trek prop replicas (with a particular emphasis on the 24-century era stuff like this).
At any rate, I'm willing and happy to do anything I can to help make this a reality. I also do a lot of graphic design work in the Adobe suite, have a lot of experience with color work (mostly in the Pantone color space) and color-matching, typography, etc and I would be happy to take a first crack at designing legends/graphics.
In short: let's make this happen!
My initial thoughts on the physical form factor are this:
Profile
ISA and DSA are very retro, and I think something LCARS should be ultra-sleek and modern by contrast. As close to flat as possible, just like the original LCARS interface panels themselves, would seem to be more in order. In PBT, I would favor Cherry profile, or something similarly low-profile. If we went the double-shot route, I think the SP LP profile might even be the best one suited to this. We should take the opportunity to do something unusual.
Material
The most important thing would seem to be to use the material that will allow us the most precise color-matching. That being said, I personally prefer PBT and thick where possible, purely for their feel, sound, and durability. Double-shot ABS would be a good second choice if it offers other better aesthetic properties (such as better color matching or crisper legend graphics).
Legends
The traditional LCARS font can be a little clunky when used in physical print. It looks great and stylish on the show when used as a small component of a busy display graphic, but the fonts used are typically heavy in font-weight yet highly condensed. This would make for very ugly single-letter caps. I would recommend trying to find a font that has better typographic properties for use in a keyboard legend set but still has a futuristic TNG-like "feel" without actually trying to be too literal in using replicas of the original font set. Something like Tungsten (http://www.typography.com/fonts/tungsten/overview/) by Hoefler & Frère-Jones (or a number of others I could come up with) would offer a much more professional range of font weights and flexibility in making legends but while still feeling sleek and futuristic.
Another big question is whether to do the rounded borders that are commonly present in LCARS designs (like the deviant art one linked to above). If we could figure out a way to make it work, it could be awesome. But I think just doing it for the sake of it could leave us with something looking pretty ugly; lots of blank ink bleeding to the edge of key cap tops but then the underlying color being visible between keys at the edges would just look amateurish and weird. A lot of creativity and thought would have to go into doing this properly.
Blank option
Along similar lines, if possible, I would love to see a blank keyset option—something suggestive of the TNG era in its color scheme, but not too busy. I think people who aren't Trek fans might even find this appealing. The LCARS color scheme is, I think, inherently beautiful and has broad intrinsic appeal.
So based on the standards:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/sZlTyTy.jpg)
Which color scheme looks best, or if you have other ideas, they are most welcome.
ProfileAgreed, this could be fun and a very unique set. However it SP do not have 6.25u spacebar in the LP profile. I will however check with them.
ISA and DSA are very retro, and I think something LCARS should be ultra-sleek and modern by contrast. As close to flat as possible, just like the original LCARS interface panels themselves, would seem to be more in order. In PBT, I would favor Cherry profile, or something similarly low-profile. If we went the double-shot route, I think the SP LP profile might even be the best one suited to this. We should take the opportunity to do something unusual.
MaterialABS DS is going to be hard since the legends will end up costing a fortune. I can't think of why I put that up there, maybe if we go for a normal font.
The most important thing would seem to be to use the material that will allow us the most precise color-matching. That being said, I personally prefer PBT and thick where possible, purely for their feel, sound, and durability. Double-shot ABS would be a good second choice if it offers other better aesthetic properties (such as better color matching or crisper legend graphics).
LegendsI created the mockup before I read your post. Still have a look, lookslike the spacebar isn't very popular.
The traditional LCARS font can be a little clunky when used in physical print. It looks great and stylish on the show when used as a small component of a busy display graphic, but the fonts used are typically heavy in font-weight yet highly condensed. This would make for very ugly single-letter caps. I would recommend trying to find a font that has better typographic properties for use in a keyboard legend set but still has a futuristic TNG-like "feel" without actually trying to be too literal in using replicas of the original font set. Something like Tungsten (http://www.typography.com/fonts/tungsten/overview/) by Hoefler & Frère-Jones (or a number of others I could come up with) would offer a much more professional range of font weights and flexibility in making legends but while still feeling sleek and futuristic.
Blank optionWe might have to do this.
Along similar lines, if possible, I would love to see a blank keyset option—something suggestive of the TNG era in its color scheme, but not too busy. I think people who aren't Trek fans might even find this appealing. The LCARS color scheme is, I think, inherently beautiful and has broad intrinsic appeal.
Which color scheme looks best, or if you have other ideas, they are most welcome.Definitively the one in the middle-left (royal deep blue + gold yellow + purple is an excellent balanced scheme IMHO) but dye-sub on the purple may be not contrasted enough.
And, FOR GOD'S SAKE NOT THE "MAKE IT HAPPEN" FOR THE SPACEBAR!!! ANYTHING ELSE BUT THAT. Seriously though, I can stand all the other words used except for make it happen.
So help me here:
1. ABS? PBT?
2. SA? DSA? DCS?
3. UV Printed? Dye subbed? Double-shot?
4. And the biggest question, legends, what sort of legends would you like?
I modified the first mockup just to follow the reference.
As far as I'm concerned using the official Paramount trademark logos is a no-go, but it's of course up to everyone else if you want to infringe.
Here is a version of my blanks design using actual PBT colors from signature plastics, very close the original reference design colors:
(Attachment Link)
I personally think this is extremely evocative of something you'd actually find on the Enterprise D—much more than any of the other designs proposed.
I can understand different people have different view on licensed logos, and stuff. But we are not doing this on a commercial basis, but each person is getting them made for their own personal use.
I'm interested in having a blank is LP profile ie the real deal
And DSA/SA with legends, for those that like the overall look but not really digging the whole "real feel"
As far as I'm concerned using the official Paramount trademark logos is a no-go, but it's of course up to everyone else if you want to infringe.
Here is a version of my blanks design using actual PBT colors from signature plastics, very close the original reference design colors:
(Attachment Link)
(updated with profile diagrams)
I personally think this is extremely evocative of something you'd actually find on the Enterprise D—much more than any of the other designs proposed.
I modified the first mockup just to follow the reference.
I would suggest that the proposed designs so far have been too literal. What about doing something like what they did in the Turtle Power (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43728.30)group buy? Rather than putting a bunch of logos from the series all over everything, they went for something subtle and suggestive of the original theme.
We want this to be something tasteful that feels custom and fan-made, not like a cheap officially-licensed novelty souvenir. That already exists, and frankly, I don't think we need a repeat of this monstrosity:
(Attachment Link)
Also, any manufacturer in the US is likely to refuse to do something like the proposed designs because they contain so many Paramount trademarks.
Why not something like this?
(Attachment Link)
Subtly suggestive of the original design aesthetic, but without a) overdoing it or b) infringing on anyone's intellectual property.
It would also, incidentally, save us a ton on legends. We would just need to find a nice low profile with the right colors (I again suggest something like LP family, or Cherry-profile PBT, as close as we can get to chiclet, in keeping with the flat feel of the original LCARS designs).
I think this design would look amazing on a plain black Filco (etc). And of course the no-legends thing makes it super l33t. ;)
As far as I'm concerned using the official Paramount trademark logos is a no-go, but it's of course up to everyone else if you want to infringe.
Here is a version of my blanks design using actual PBT colors from signature plastics, very close the original reference design colors:
(Attachment Link)
(updated with profile diagrams)
I personally think this is extremely evocative of something you'd actually find on the Enterprise D—much more than any of the other designs proposed.
Update:
Got information from SP:
1. LP profile is for Cherry ML
2. PBT SA/DSA is possible
3. No PBT Spacebar
4. DSA is the lowest profile they have for Cherry MX
No offense to anyone, but I'm still trying to figure out where "Make It Happen" came from.
Is that a translation artifact of going to German?
I modified the first mockup just to follow the reference.Why not something like this?
(Attachment Link)
I like these two the most. A StarFleet logo would be sick. And ABS SA is my preference. Followed by DCS. If it's PBT of any kind, I probably won't buy.
zomg. I LOVE St@r W@rs. May the force live long and prosper! I can't wait for this. Starfleet Jedi FTW !!101!!Show Image(http://imgur.com/frbyn.jpg)
As i recall, I am not on weed, then why would I make such a mistake, "Make it Happen" is supposed to be "Make it so"No offense to anyone, but I'm still trying to figure out where "Make It Happen" came from.
Is that a translation artifact of going to German?
I'm thinking it is just a misquote of "Make it so"
Anyway, getting back on track. ;)
I just had a look at the profiles in greater detail, and I rescind my prior comment about DSA vs. DCS. I actually think DSA is a better LCARS—for its flatness. If you look at a DSA board side-on, it looks almost entirely flat. Even though it has a more retro look, the overall impression of this is more LCARS-like, I think.
The ABS spacebar issue, however, is a baffler. It makes me want to vote in favor of switching to ABS, but the trouble is that at least for SP the ABS colors don't offer nearly as good a match for LCARS colors as the PBT options do. Maybe use the PBT colors in most places and just pick an unobtrusive dark gray/black as the spacebar? Black is a pretty significant component of LCARS designs, so I thought it made the most sense for an unobtrusive color.
So here is my updated mock-up for my preferred configuration.
(Attachment Link)
Sorry, Moz, btw. I don't mean to hijack your thread. I am just enthusiastic about your idea! :) These are all just friendly suggestions.
Maybe imsto or other vendors will have better (or at least other) options for us?
Anyway, getting back on track. ;)
I just had a look at the profiles in greater detail, and I rescind my prior comment about DSA vs. DCS. I actually think DSA is a better LCARS—for its flatness. If you look at a DSA board side-on, it looks almost entirely flat. Even though it has a more retro look, the overall impression of this is more LCARS-like, I think.
The ABS spacebar issue, however, is a baffler. It makes me want to vote in favor of switching to ABS, but the trouble is that at least for SP the ABS colors don't offer nearly as good a match for LCARS colors as the PBT options do. Maybe use the PBT colors in most places and just pick an unobtrusive dark gray/black as the spacebar? Black is a pretty significant component of LCARS designs, so I thought it made the most sense for an unobtrusive color.
So here is my updated mock-up for my preferred configuration.
(Attachment Link)
Sorry, Moz, btw. I don't mean to hijack your thread. I am just enthusiastic about your idea! :) These are all just friendly suggestions.
Maybe imsto or other vendors will have better (or at least other) options for us?
I don't mind. You seem to have a better hang of this. I just floated an idea that I wanted to do, and your design sense does seem better, so why not.
If we ever do go into GB phase, I would need a US partner, I hope you get the hint.
Anyway, getting back on track. ;)
I just had a look at the profiles in greater detail, and I rescind my prior comment about DSA vs. DCS. I actually think DSA is a better LCARS—for its flatness. If you look at a DSA board side-on, it looks almost entirely flat. Even though it has a more retro look, the overall impression of this is more LCARS-like, I think.
The ABS spacebar issue, however, is a baffler. It makes me want to vote in favor of switching to ABS, but the trouble is that at least for SP the ABS colors don't offer nearly as good a match for LCARS colors as the PBT options do. Maybe use the PBT colors in most places and just pick an unobtrusive dark gray/black as the spacebar? Black is a pretty significant component of LCARS designs, so I thought it made the most sense for an unobtrusive color.
So here is my updated mock-up for my preferred configuration.
(Attachment Link)
Sorry, Moz, btw. I don't mean to hijack your thread. I am just enthusiastic about your idea! :) These are all just friendly suggestions.
Maybe imsto or other vendors will have better (or at least other) options for us?
I don't mind. You seem to have a better hang of this. I just floated an idea that I wanted to do, and your design sense does seem better, so why not.
If we ever do go into GB phase, I would need a US partner, I hope you get the hint.
I am happy to help if you get to the GB phase and need a USA partner. I have some background in e-commerce and fulfillment, and I have a friend/business partner who might be interested in helping us take payments through their merchant account (avoiding the headaches of Paypal). Also, my last company (http://www.norbauer.com/rails-consulting/) was actually a US-India partnership. :)
The only trouble is that, again, if I'm going to become formally involved, we wouldn't be able to be involved in taking money (even if not at a profit) for anything that could potentially infringe on a trademark, as it could expose us and our businesses to legal liability here in the US. So I could only help with a blank set, or one that didn't use any logos or copyrighted/unlicensed fonts.
New mockup, hanks to the expertise of Norbauer.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/bGAkXiQ.png)
I've made.
I think we should do DSA profile in PBT, blank and legends, we can get the legends done from SP itself and the licensed ones from IMSTO.
I shall handle all the finances and become a milionaire. Muahaahaha
Got my vote. MOZ should re-update OP so we get a real interest check on this.
Got my vote. MOZ should re-update OP so we get a real interest check on this.
Agreed.
Just one last question/tweak: do you guys prefer the original colored arrow keys (from my prior mock-ups), or should we set them off by making them blue? I'm not sure which I prefer. Happy to do whatever anyone else thinks is best. :)
I modified the first mockup just to follow the reference.
Got my vote. MOZ should re-update OP so we get a real interest check on this.
Agreed.
Just one last question/tweak: do you guys prefer the original colored arrow keys (from my prior mock-ups), or should we set them off by making them blue? I'm not sure which I prefer. Happy to do whatever anyone else thinks is best. :)
Include them as an extra 4 keys/WASD for those so inclined? I also can't decide which I think works well for a WASD option.
I don't mind either.
I gave a few examples, but the possible permutations are many. (Commander Data could tell us precisely how many if here were here, no doubt.)
I gave a few examples, but the possible permutations are many. (Commander Data could tell us precisely how many if here were here, no doubt.)
YOU have to include a "DATA" key somewhere in your key-set....... please ;) .
I guess it could just be me, but the pastel turn this set has taken has really turned me off of it. I guess you are going for authenticity which I can certainly appreciate, but with the current color scheme I probably wont buy it.
I could just be misremembering the LCARs panels, but I recall more vivid colors on the panels with the primary color of the panels being a black background with lots of darker oranges and blues like were in the original post. When I saw the original post, I immediately thought "star trek lcars panel," but now it's more like "weird unbalanced set of pastel colors."
Yeah, I just went and looked at the LCARs panels in the original airings, and they do seem much lighter than I remembered them being.
Been rewatching them on the retouched blu-ray versions recently so that might be why I was mistaken I suppose. Or my memory is just worthless, could be either.
Yeah, I just went and looked at the LCARs panels in the original airings, and they do seem much lighter than I remembered them being.
Been rewatching them on the retouched blu-ray versions recently so that might be why I was mistaken I suppose. Or my memory is just worthless, could be either.
No worries. You also might have been remembering the Enterprise-E era graphics, which moved more in the darker and primary color direction to make everything look more "tactical," as they tried to pass TNG off as an action series (to not particularly great success.)
Also, FWIW, if it looks like this GB really going to happen, I plan to order a color ring set from SP and match it to an LCARS back-lit graphic that I own from the original TNG set. So my final proposed colors may change slightly. The idea is try my best to verify the best possible match in person, since computer monitor colors are never entirely accurate. Perhaps I'll be able post pics of the SP samples next to my Okudagram to illustrate.
OK, based on comments from Divito and Moz, I have added a modifier set that greatly increases one's flexibility with this set and only requires adding a few extra keys (and no additional colors). This could be an optional add-on to a base 104-key.I like this so much! Definitely gonna join the GB if it really happens.
I gave a few examples, but the possible permutations are many. (Commander Data could tell us precisely how many if here were here, no doubt.)
[Updated image to reduce clutter.]
Also, FWIW, if it looks like this GB really going to happen, I plan to order a color ring set from SP and match it to an LCARS back-lit graphic that I own from the original TNG set. So my final proposed colors may change slightly. The idea is try my best to verify the best possible match in person, since computer monitor colors are never entirely accurate. Perhaps I'll be able post pics of the SP samples next to my Okudagram to illustrate.
OK, based on comments from Divito and Moz, I have added a modifier set that greatly increases one's flexibility with this set and only requires adding a few extra keys (and no additional colors). This could be an optional add-on to a base 104-key.I stopped counting permutations after 1024.
I gave a few examples, but the possible permutations are many. (Commander Data could tell us precisely how many if here were here, no doubt.)
[Updated image to reduce clutter.]
Also, FWIW, if it looks like this GB really going to happen, I plan to order a color ring set from SP and match it to an LCARS back-lit graphic that I own from the original TNG set. So my final proposed colors may change slightly. The idea is try my best to verify the best possible match in person, since computer monitor colors are never entirely accurate. Perhaps I'll be able post pics of the SP samples next to my Okudagram to illustrate.
Wow! You would do that! That would be so awesome of you!
Thanks a lot for everything.
There are color accurate pictures from the SP color ring here (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45743.0) if that helps out.
OK, based on comments from Divito and Moz, I have added a modifier set that greatly increases one's flexibility with this set and only requires adding a few extra keys (and no additional colors). This could be an optional add-on to a base 104-key.I stopped counting permutations after 1024.
I gave a few examples, but the possible permutations are many. (Commander Data could tell us precisely how many if here were here, no doubt.)
[Updated image to reduce clutter.]
Consider me hacked for a blank set guaranteed and maybe one with legends, even though the legends wouldn't feel as authentic with all the logos it would still be badass!
SP will not do the logos, we can get these from IMSTO and this will be a addon pack, which would most liekly ship separately from the GB. The point of this set is you have logo legends with matching colors for your set.
@Moz
It *shouldn't* be but I didn't like the dye-subbing on the first set of Imsto's Black on Blue PBT Cherry caps. I know Ivan worked very hard on them but I just thought they looked fuzzy. :|
@Moz
It *shouldn't* be but I didn't like the dye-subbing on the first set of Imsto's Black on Blue PBT Cherry caps. I know Ivan worked very hard on them but I just thought they looked fuzzy. :|
I like the extra sharp look of double shot legends as well.
I agree, pretty much any dye sub looks fuzzy to me :(
The nature of dyesub is as such that it looks fuzzy. However for those logos and custom font, we have not other option.
Regarding the color mismatch, we will get he blank keys from SP, and have them black dyesubbed like the other legends.
That shouldn't cause any problem, right?
@norbauer
If you want, there is a picture of an x-rite calibration tool that you can use to calibrate your monitor to show "proper" colors. It's in Dianoda's pictures. Let me know if you can't find it. Otherwise, I'm all for using having an in person comparison. I just thought those pictures might be helpful.
I agree, pretty much any dye sub looks fuzzy to me :(
Oh, that is a clever solution. I hadn't realized that would be possible. It would obviously greatly increase the production time of the sets, but we don't necessarily have to ship the blank and legended sets at the same time. So we could at least get a quick turn-around on the blank sets.
Honestly, I think you're pretty close to spot on with the colors so far.
If we were to move away from the muted palette, in my opinion, it wouldn't be a TNG LCARS homage.
Bolder colors would indeed look nice, but that would be a different keyset :)
Moz, I was thinking: if you do the logo set add-on, I wonder if you could maybe organize it as a separate group buy, and keep these sets generic?
The reason I ask isn't just the logistics, but I was thinking that if this project didn't have any copyright/trademark-infringing components, it would be much easier to publicize on the web via bloggers, people on Twitter, etc (and thus hopefully to get people to sign up for it, including people who might not yet know about Geekhack). We might even be able to get Mike Okuda himself (the designer of LCARS) to tweet about it. :) He is very approachable and friendly.
But nobody prominent is going to want to link to (and seemingly support) something that looks like it is going to be killed by a cease-and-desist letter from Paramount—being fan-made or not-for-profit is no exception.
Maybe you would prefer to keep this small and within the existing Geekhack community, in which case the above may not be a concern. But there are a lot of TNG fans out there, and a lot of them are gamers/nerds (i.e., people who would like mechanical keyboards), so it might not hurt to try to bring in people from a wider audience, including possibly existing Geekhack members who just don't log in very often but who might hear about the project via Trek blogs, etc. I personally know a number of TNG fans who are also programmers who would probably buy an MX keyboard just to have and use this keyset!
Anyway, just a thought. ;D
Moz, I was thinking: if you do the logo set add-on, I wonder if you could maybe organize it as a separate group buy, and keep these sets generic?
The reason I ask isn't just the logistics, but I was thinking that if this project didn't have any copyright/trademark-infringing components, it would be much easier to publicize on the web via bloggers, people on Twitter, etc (and thus hopefully to get people to sign up for it, including people who might not yet know about Geekhack). We might even be able to get Mike Okuda himself (the designer of LCARS) to tweet about it. :) He is very approachable and friendly.
But nobody prominent is going to want to link to (and seemingly support) something that looks like it is going to be killed by a cease-and-desist letter from Paramount—being fan-made or not-for-profit is no exception.
Maybe you would prefer to keep this small and within the existing Geekhack community, in which case the above may not be a concern. But there are a lot of TNG fans out there, and a lot of them are gamers/nerds (i.e., people who would like mechanical keyboards), so it might not hurt to try to bring in people from a wider audience, including possibly existing Geekhack members who just don't log in very often but who might hear about the project via Trek blogs, etc. I personally know a number of TNG fans who are also programmers who would probably buy an MX keyboard just to have and use this keyset!
Anyway, just a thought. ;D
That just makes too much sense, you know! :p
It would be good to have them as two separate GB, however I think it would be a good idea to have them in parallel.
So what legends need changing? I think there are 6 keys: SF logo (WIN Key), UFP (MENU key), and the 4 extras (Romulan, Klingon, Borg emblems and Enterprise-D).
Suggestions for legends?
Honestly, if we're not using Trek iconography, I have trouble thinking of anything that would look better than WIN and MENU in the same font as the rest of the keys, or the standard icons for those keys.
I like the idea of the windows 8 logo, it does fit the theme well I agree.
So would there would be two entirely separate sets of keys if this goes ahead, one blank and one with legends? I like the concept of that, but getting enough support behind this to hit the lower price tiers (thinking 50 or 75+ tier) for both sets might be hard if we are splitting everyone interested between the two.
I really don't think there would be enough members for a blank set as there would be for a legend set, the reason is that most member still prefer to have legends, which is evident by the numerous GBs we have had in the part, and thus don't believe the orders would be split up, since those that didn't want legends, would never have ordered, and those that wanted blanks, would have have anyways ordered blanks and will still do. Infact I think we could hit better number with members getting both.
Based on this keyboard here: http://cptrick.deviantart.com/art/LCARS-keyboard-98329154
Here is a mockup of the standard layout based on that color scheme. Since the real attraction of this set would be the legends, thus we need to get them dyesubbed, otherwise ABS DS from SP would have been a solid choice (Which is still a possibility if people want the color scheme).Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/MOdmOrb.png)
I asked IMSTO if he can do Dyesub on SP SA/DSA caps, he said he can. I think either SA/DSA would look good, not too sure about DCS, anyone know if SP does PBT SA? I know they do ABS, but those can't be dyesubbed. I will ask QWERkeys as well if they can do UV printing on ABS/PBT SA/DSA caps.
So help me here:
1. ABS? PBT?
2. SA? DSA? DCS?
3. UV Printed? Dye subbed? Double-shot?
4. And the biggest question, legends, what sort of legends would you like?
OK, based on comments from Divito and Moz, I have added a modifier set that greatly increases one's flexibility with this set and only requires adding a few extra keys (and no additional colors). This could be an optional add-on to a base 104-key.
I gave a few examples, but the possible permutations are many. (Commander Data could tell us precisely how many if here were here, no doubt.)
[Updated image to reduce clutter.]
FWIW I just posted the mock-up on Facebook and several people (Star Trek fan friends) have already contacted me to say they're interested and would buy into this, even though they're not GeekHack members—whether by signing up for a GeekHack account and joining, or asking me to proxy for them.
Kirk: Come on. Spock, why didn't you jump in?
Spock: I was trying to comprehend the meaning of the words.
McCoy: It's a blank keyboard, you green-blooded...Vulcan. You type on it. The words aren't important. What's important is that you have a good time typing on it.
Spock: Oh, I am sorry, Doctor. Were we having a good time?
McCoy: God, I liked him better before he died.
Yeah this Star Trek keycaps is too awesome to get cancel. Please make it happened! And PBT dye sub please.
FWIW I just posted the mock-up on Facebook and several people (Star Trek fan friends) have already contacted me to say they're interested and would buy into this, even though they're not GeekHack members—whether by signing up for a GeekHack account and joining, or asking me to proxy for them.
I think there are more Trekkie fans out there than the entire Geekhack membership right here. Hence a fully LCARS style key-set would be very welcomed by all, including me.
Couldn't care how it's made or the colours used but having some logo's included from STNG would be so cool to own 8) . Please don't shelve this as being too hard or difficult because the fans out there demand to have this finally done. Make it so.
Seriously thought, this has to be made. Love the extra keys for WASD.
Let's get the legends ready and some more mockups. And roll this thing out.
I'm so excited for this.
Perhaps we could add an option on the order form to donate extra to cover some of this optional stuff?What extra costs? Besides what would come in each persons share based on total number of orders for the legends?
I know I'd be willing to pay a bit extra if it means I can act out my TNG FanFic.
...
A set like this would be priced around $65, now add the extra and it should reach $90, which I think is still alright considering the uniqueness of the set. And maybe we can also do some fund raising.
I would like to think that maybe we can collect enough money to get ABS DS, it is $45 per legend. For a full keyboard without the logos, we are looking at something like 110 keys (Some novelty extras_
I know the colors would look nice but a mix of keycaps materials might cause people to not want to buy it. Just a heads up. For me when I buy a set, I look for material of the keycaps before the looks since how the caps feel matter to me more than how they look.
Dunno man, maybe won't join for ABS DS. But definitely will join for PBT dye sub.
I know the colors would look nice but a mix of keycaps materials might cause people to not want to buy it. Just a heads up. For me when I buy a set, I look for material of the keycaps before the looks since how the caps feel matter to me more than how they look.
I modified the first mockup just to follow the reference.
New mockup, hanks to the expertise of Norbauer.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/bGAkXiQ.png)
I've made.
I think we should do DSA profile in PBT, blank and legends, we can get the legends done from SP itself and the licensed ones from IMSTO.
OK, so I just made a quick mock-up of the two color schemes. I tried my best to match the theme and feel from the PBT set, but again the ABS colors are very limited from SP in the area of the color space where we are working (for some reason SP focuses mainly on Grays and Beiges in ABS).
I personally find the ABS color scheme too harsh and saturated (the pink color in particular is way too pink; it should be more of an orangey-salmon—and there was no better option that I could find). Frankly, I wouldn't buy a blanks version of the ABS color scheme myself.
Again, to clarify from the above, I think my personal preferred plan, which would offer everyone the fullest spectrum of variety (without making four sets!), would be this:
- Blanks in the PBT color scheme
- Doubleshot legends in the ABS color scheme
Though I only feel strongly about the first item on that list.
I look forward to hearing everyone's thoughts.
I'll work on legends mock-ups soon with these colors shortly.
Did you receive the color rings or is this based on what's available online?
Tried these matches yet?
PBT -- ABS
BFE -- BFM/BFO
BFD -- BO
RCA - RCJ
ORY -TEA
We should wait for the rings to reach you for a better understanding.
(Attachment Link)
Dat numpa.
Seriously though you've taken the idea to a whole new level.
I would like to think that maybe we can collect enough money to get ABS DS, it is $45 per legend.
I would like to think that maybe we can collect enough money to get ABS DS, it is $45 per legend.
ABS is tolerable, I would be glad for it to be done, as long as we get the legends no matter what 8) .
OK, so I went back to some of the original Sternbach production memos and the Okuda mock-ups from the TNG technical manual published by Pocket Books back in the 80s and I came up with what is (I think) a set of legends that is very accurate to the original LCARS spirit, building on and playing off of Moz's original draft.That's really awesome! Now this can't be cancelled for humanity to defense against ugly borg! :D
There was one correction that I thought was particularly important for accuracy: small lettering always top-bottom aligned to the one side large color bands is very characteristic of LCARS. Black lettering was almost never center-aligned in LCARS. It also makes this set much more subtle and classy set, IMO, more in keeping with the original aesthetic of the show.
I have also mocked up some potential keyset breakdowns.
Bear in the mind the color suggestions are still tentative until I can verify them with the SP color rings (which are in the mail!)
Looking forward to hearing what everyone thinks!
Here is a general low-res image to give you the feel of the three sets
(Attachment Link)
Here is a hi-res detail on the ABS legends set
(Attachment Link)
Here is the PBT dyesub with legends
(Attachment Link)
Here is a potential keysets breakdown for the legends sets
(Attachment Link)
And one for blanks
(Attachment Link)
The idea from the NumPad is obviously to invoke the common LCARS graphical trope:Show Image(http://lcarsgfx.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/helm-11.png)
Make every Star Trek nerd a MK nerd! That is our ulterior motive :P
Let's get the legends ready and some more mockups. And roll this thing out.
FWIW, I think dyesub would also make the whole after-market illicit imsto logo thing much easier, for those who wanted to go that route. :p
FWIW, I think dyesub would also make the whole after-market illicit imsto logo thing much easier, for those who wanted to go that route. :p
Then the PBT route it is, please make it SA because the thickness of each cap would be truly sublime. Also Imsto can help out easily, because China rules when it comes to manufacturing logos/images ;) .
Plus I've seen some of his work and it's really good.
This set is really coming together. I'd like to reiterate my vote for PBT Dyesub and anything but DSA profile. Plus, I'm in love with that numpad.
The one thing I would say, is I'm not a big fan of all of the standard mods (tab, ctrl, alt, windows key).
Is there a possibility of getting an alternate mod set with completely new (or extremely old) phrasing?
Maybe Tab could be Injct (interject)
CTRL could be CMD
ALT could be Proxy
Windows could be Prime
Just some ideas. If you've got something better, please speak up.
On the note of social media, I have a tumblr account set up where I've advertised my designs with WASDKeyboards for Tolkien's Tengwar alphabet, and the fan made Gallifreyan, of Doctor who.
That being said, my tengwar post has 14,000 reblogs and likes, where Gallifreyan (the newer of the two posts) has about 8,000.
I have 600 followers that hang on my every post waiting for updates on getting permissions so I, and WASD, can sell these keyboards.
I would HAPPILY put my following to use to promote this keycap set, and I know a significant amount of my followers are trekkers.
Unfortunately, Tumblr works best with pictures. Maybe it'd be best to hold that option for round two, when we have the chance to take some nice photos of the set and really entice people to buy in.
But the vast majority of these followers are not MK nerds. Would you consider offering an upgrade options, MOZ, where they pay you to buy an unbranded QFR, and replace the keycaps for them? It might bring in potentially hundreds of extra buyers (just add a few dollars to the price for your labor) and you can have a cutoff. Say you'll only do 20, or 50 of the keycap swaps. Anybody else interested will have to buy a QFR on their own and figure it out.
I think the biggest reason for my desperate plea for SA profile here is this pictureShow Image(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6057/6891282602_6ee5954fa8_o.jpg)
Taken from the set of Doctor Who, that's the TARDIS I/O.
I think SA in all R3 (flat top) would look AMAZING. It would have that futuristic retro feel.
I would **** myself if we did this in row3 SA profile.
You need to look if SP lilac is warm or cold (that's the subtleness of the violet-purple range) but why not replacing some purple keys by red or pink to warm a bit the colours design (for example the modifiers row or tab, capslock and Lshift )
Does anyone else think staggered QWERTY layout looks silly on 24th century or Timelord equipment? ;D
Just to be clear, though: were you referring to ABS or PBT?no ref in mind but if you ask :
We need a non-staggered TKL sized keyboard for this to go with.As a Tipro ? :D
Good lord I think I would die if I could get a Dye-subbed PBT set in those colours. :thumb:
FWIW, I think dyesub would also make the whole after-market illicit imsto logo thing much easier, for those who wanted to go that route. :p
Then the PBT route it is, please make it SA because the thickness of each cap would be truly sublime. Also Imsto can help out easily, because China rules when it comes to manufacturing logos/images ;) .
Plus I've seen some of his work and it's really good.
I think the biggest reason for my desperate plea for SA profile here is this pictureShow Image(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6057/6891282602_6ee5954fa8_o.jpg)
Taken from the set of Doctor Who, that's the TARDIS I/O.
I think SA in all R3 (flat top) would look AMAZING. It would have that futuristic retro feel.
I would **** myself if we did this in row3 SA profile.
This looks very doable. If noone takes this one, I'll start an IC for this. :)
This looks very doable. If noone takes this one, I'll start an IC for this. :)
I hope so. Because having them as SA alone, puts them in the "I will MURDER a MILLION MM's to GET THEM" list. Count on that :thumb: .
YES. I'll wait if someone want to take command, otherwise I'll have to do it.
YES. I'll wait if someone want to take command, otherwise I'll have to do it.
Just be careful if YOU want to run a Group Buy here on Geekhack. It's not easy that's why I would personally never do it, because of the huge amount of pressure applied to someone when the money starts rolling in. Plus the problems and obstacles that need to be sorted out quickly along the way.
I would pass it onto i3oiler for instance because that individual runs his business perfectly with no lag between designing, manufacturing and sorting key-sets. Hence please beg him to take this on if you can. I know there are others here on Geekhack that could also do it professionally with no problems but I haven't dealt with them yet. i3oiler always lets you know what's happening and there are no surprises to the customers when he runs a Group Buy (aka. relax he's not my buddy or relative).
Jil_jil32 is another individual who could run this but I think he's too preoccupied with other Group Buys to successfully run this one. But who knows, he maybe a masochist that enjoys that much pressure being applied onto him.
YES. I'll wait if someone want to take command, otherwise I'll have to do it.
Just be careful if YOU want to run a Group Buy here on Geekhack. It's not easy that's why I would personally never do it, because of the huge amount of pressure applied to someone when the money starts rolling in. Plus the problems and obstacles that need to be sorted out quickly along the way.
I would pass it onto i3oiler for instance because that individual runs his business perfectly with no lag between designing, manufacturing and sorting key-sets. Hence please beg him to take this on if you can. I know there are others here on Geekhack that could also do it professionally with no problems but I haven't dealt with them yet. i3oiler always lets you know what's happening and there are no surprises to the customers when he runs a Group Buy (aka. relax he's not my buddy or relative).
Jil_jil32 is another individual who could run this but I think he's too preoccupied with other Group Buys to successfully run this one. But who knows, he maybe a masochist that enjoys that much pressure being applied onto him.
I'm running 3 GBs, one is almost in completion of receiving money and production is almost beginning, alos doing Asian proxy for one.
I also have multiple ICs, prototypes and some custom work too. So I think I can handle it ;)
Besides there is always a first, current GB organizers didn't drop from the sky, they started somewhere?
Re the ergodox issue, I would be happy to mock-up a keyset for that, but I would need some base artwork, and a guide on which keys go where. Or do ergodox folks mostly prefer blanks? I tend to see ergodox sets in blanks for some reason in other GBs.Check my CAD resources thread, it has the layout for the ErgoDox. Most users either use the alphas and blanks or all blanks, so color scheme is what we are aiming for here.
Now that everything is changed up a bit, I find myself actually liking the legends!We could go both ways:
They look more realistic and less like a toy.
[pic]shut up and take my money[/pic]
so are you saying that if we went the route of dye sub pbt, we could combine the moq for blanks and legends into a single moq.
then ship the correct amount of sets to imsto for the dye subbing or have them all shipped to imsto and only legend however many?
The color rings arrived! I'm currently sorting through them, comparing them to my sample from the TNG set, and will report back shortly.
First impression: ABS color looks way better in person than in the online photos from the SP site.
Anyway, I'm hard at work figuring out the best batches from both materials and I'll provide my own photos shortly!
i think the legends are essential with this set and they need to be good quality and preferably a little larger than normal Cherry or WYSE legends but not like childish. Without recognizable legends i am not sure if anyone will connect this is a LCARS/Trek set, it may look like a vomit board instead; i guess no matter what though by definition this will be a vomit board.
I think these would go good on a black acrylic keyboard with large bezels so that you can apply maybe some neat vinyl LCARS stickers to finish it off and rock with style. the ergodox could have that large open area on the top layer covered with some neat sticker (would only work if the top layer is black or dark opaque). i dunno something like these things https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1734&bih=692&q=lcars+shapes&oq=lcars+shapes&gs_l=img.3..0.1341.4011.0.5212.12.7.0.5.5.0.134.673.5j2.7.0....0...1ac.1.27.img..0.12.678.Hj0gOWkANSA
i hope i am making sense.
We could go both ways:
1. Get blanks and dye subbed legends (Non - logos) from SP and distribute simultaneously gt the logos dye-subbed from IMSTO and then distribute them separately.
2. All keys from SP, all dyesubbed at IMSTO and then distribute them
We'll take whichever ends up being cheaper
We could go both ways:
1. Get blanks and dye subbed legends (Non - logos) from SP and distribute simultaneously gt the logos dye-subbed from IMSTO and then distribute them separately.
2. All keys from SP, all dyesubbed at IMSTO and then distribute them
We'll take whichever ends up being cheaper
Careful about the "Cheaper" mentality because you will get what you paid for. That is why really excellent dye-sub work costs, plus you need samples of the company's work to determine if they could accomplish the task accurately. No fussiness (GMK's work is near perfection) and equal spacing for each key in their thousands.
I've seen some horrors in dye-sub, simply because they did it for a very cheap price.
We've heard good things about IMSTO, and some bad as well. I know GMK does a good job. Not sure about SP.
We could go both ways:
1. Get blanks and dye subbed legends (Non - logos) from SP and distribute simultaneously gt the logos dye-subbed from IMSTO and then distribute them separately.
2. All keys from SP, all dyesubbed at IMSTO and then distribute them
We'll take whichever ends up being cheaper
Careful about the "Cheaper" mentality because you will get what you paid for. That is why really excellent dye-sub work costs, plus you need samples of the company's work to determine if they could accomplish the task accurately. No fussiness (GMK's work is near perfection) and equal spacing for each key in their thousands.
I've seen some horrors in dye-sub, simply because they did it for a very cheap price.
"Cheap" would not b the only weighing factor :D
We've heard good things about IMSTO, and some bad as well. I know GMK does a good job. Not sure about SP.
If the GB happens, I might supply case with the shapes made in acrylic itself (So no need to paste vinyl)for any of my open source designs with larger bezels. I know I would make one for msyself for sure with a yellow rounded elbow int the top-left corner. Matching exact colors might be a problem.
7 colors? We better hit good numbers or this might be very expensive.
Don't worry let me get some pricing once we decide on the ABS as well and printing mechanism
Looks likes the Topre I'm typing this on will go to my wife.
How are SP's DSA PBT caps? I've got some of their ABS caps and am THOROUGHLY unimpressed. To the point where I would probably be out of this GB if that's what we went with. I'm still hesitant with PBT as well, as I can't imagine they'll be that much different.
SA keycaps just have substance like DSA specifically doesn't. They're thin, and just sound hollow typing on them.
Are their PBT caps any better?
And all of the pure yellows in the PBT palette are too harsh and look like French's mustardYou mean the fluorescent one with turmeric, not the Dijon's ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustard_%28condiment%29
wow Norb, that's so great !
The only thing I dislike is the red escape which looks too vermilion to me in the neighbourhood of the other colours. Maybe something more magenta is a better compromise between the quiet ambiance and the emergency command of the key.
QuoteAnd all of the pure yellows in the PBT palette are too harsh and look like French's mustardYou mean the fluorescent one with turmeric, not the Dijon's ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustard_%28condiment%29
yeah, I read it but my subconscious reach of (almost) perfection has spoken :)
This is probably an irrelevant concern, however. As Moz pointed out, we are probably a little high on colors as it is right now, so cutting down on them may be necessary cut costs to a price that people would actually be willing to pay—and the red Esc would seem to be the first color on the chopping block. I don't know much about the economics of GBs, so I'll defer to him on that matter.
Your French is excellent, way better written than a lot of French citizens does and than my poor English skill :-[QuoteAnd all of the pure yellows in the PBT palette are too harsh and look like French's mustardYou mean the fluorescent one with turmeric, not the Dijon's ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustard_%28condiment%29
Quite correct. Je n'ai pas voulu décrire la moutarde Française quand j'ai écrit « French's ». Ironiquement, il y une moutarde qui existe aux Etats-Unis sous la marque « French's », qui est en fait composée de curcuma. Moi, je prefere celle de Dijon. ;)
Pardon, if you will, my French. lol
This is excellent. Now do me an Ergodox mockup as well. I will then start a poll and start getting pricing from SP?
This is excellent. Now do me an Ergodox mockup as well. I will then start a poll and start getting pricing from SP?
will do. legends,blanks, or both?
This is excellent. Now do me an Ergodox mockup as well. I will then start a poll and start getting pricing from SP?
will do. legends,blanks, or both?
Both
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gskvuhild4f0w1s/keylayouts.dwg
Here you go
You only need the alphas, and since you had/changed them, I don't have them as a layout :/
You only need the alphas, and since you had/changed them, I don't have them as a layout :/
Oh, sorry. Ergodox is a foreign world to me! ;) I can take care of that then. I just wasn't sure what all the modifier keys were, but I'll just leave all those blank.
I modified the first mockup just to follow the reference.
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)I modified the first mockup just to follow the reference.
Yes! this one please
and SA profile
PBT
Thanks for all the hard work norbauer! Truly awesome stuff. I can't wait to get my hands on the color approved ABS doubleshot set.
Poll is up: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1tR0EEzZUPdmYVlYieoIwpxYbuAE7UFhE20NlVgqCXG8/viewform
voted. i honestly would prefer the dyesub but ill do doubleshot as well.
the ergodox color scheme looooookkks gooood, i hope the interest grows enough that it would be possible. i'm not going to join without ergodox.
Ugh, those responses are so disheartening. Want my blanks :(
Ugh, those responses are so disheartening. Want my blanks :(
Hmm. I want a blank set too! =\
Where are you seeing the updated results? All I can see is the form itself when I follow Moz's link.
Ugh, those responses are so disheartening. Want my blanks :(
Hmm. I want a blank set too! =\
Where are you seeing the updated results? All I can see is the form itself when I follow Moz's link.
The response to thank for submission offers a link to see the results so far. As far as I know, you'd have to do another submission to be able to see it.
God, I was really hoping to get a set of PBT out of this.
And has DSA been decided, then? Since there's no vote option for profile?
DSA has been chosen as it suits the theme best.
DSA has been chosen as it suits the theme best.
Damn this is starting to look interesting now. Although PBT is off the books right?Based on the poll result, both DS ABS and PBT dye sub are pretty closed
Based on the poll result, both DS ABS and PBT dye sub are pretty closed
Yeah, I wish more would vote.
Those insignia keys were left out for copyright reasons.
The other thing, we can do is, UV print on ABS.
Does anyone know any vendor or setup that would be willing ot ignore copyright issues to make DS ABS? Or UV print ABS?
I think we should offer LCARS keyboard, so members not of this community can order these keyboards without having to worry about changing keycaps.
Poker 2, CM QFR, Ducky Shine III, we cna do these three for each form factor.
How long should we let the poll stay open? From initial looks it looks like DS ABS.
If we go this way, we are looking at raising around $5000 for the legends. Ideas on how to go about this?
One of the ideas I have had and all members are welcome to add to this and give their suggestion as well is to get the assistance of either MassDrop or MechnicalKeyboards. I would prefer MK, specially since they are in the business already and can hopefully do the "complete LCARS keyboard" as well.
They have the business model setup to deliver complete keyboards as well as sets, besides the whole logistics.
They could either do a MD drop style thing where they get the commitment and charge the user for the actual amount at a later date.
This way they can host the GB on their website and incorporate the costs for the legends into the price of the keycaps/keyboards, while still ahving the option to allow users to donate more towards legends production.
i know MK was willing to help geekhack out but will they do non-ANSI125 layouts like ISO, ANSI150, ergodox, etc? Ergodox wouldn't sell that much...the commando GB was so low on the ergodox that they just ended up doing manual sorting of singles to make it affordable.
premade "LCARS keyboards".
makes me think this should be run traditionally like every other group buy on geek hack. if the font is owned by Viacom then sp will not do them, months back key pop learned that lesson. dye sub may be only option....
My fear is that we're going to incorporate too many things into this buy. I like the keyboard complete package but if this gets mired for years like another GB I'm thinking of, I'm not sure people will be too thrilled.
Also, working with MK.com means this is no longer a GB right? Because MK has said they will run buys but they have to keep the lights on.
That being said, a full set of legends for DS might be useful for other sets? Not to mention the lovely crispness...
My fear is that we're going to incorporate too many things into this buy. I like the keyboard complete package but if this gets mired for years like another GB I'm thinking of, I'm not sure people will be too thrilled.
Also, working with MK.com means this is no longer a GB right? Because MK has said they will run buys but they have to keep the lights on.
Hey CPT, hopefully from what you have seen so far of me, says that I work fast, and I will try and keep this GB paced in a similar manner as well.
I have got the pricing and things are very interesting.
Since the bulk of the new legends are for the CORE set, using that as a yardstick, if we get above 100 orders for that CORE set, then we are looking at cheaper pricing for the ABS DS including the new legends as opposed to PBT Dyesub.
Given the popularity thus far I am sure we can hit that number. Now the question that arises is that do we go with Dye-sub PBT or Double-shot ABS.
From the polls, ABS had a lead initially but Dye-sub is now taking the lead.
Regarding the MK offer, we could discuss the possibility of having the GB on GH, and they could open up a Pre-order, for pre-assembled LCARS-style keyboards and possibly sets as well, thus making them a participant of the GB.
I think you are prime example of a person who is pushing more int he direction of making it more authentic, as this isn't something that we do everyday, since when we began the idea of the LCARS set, and by looking at the online samples SP had, you were inclined towards PBT better matching the colors which was also fueled by your slight bias towards PBT. However after receiving the sample and more introspect, you realised that the ABS is much more fitting, which goes to show that your are looking for more authentic and not bias by choice of material or printing.
Which reminds me, original you wanted blanks as well, but with the new legends and DS, you now want legends. What a flip!
I for one, would like to go with ABS as well. However I'd like to leave the poll open as long as we can.
I am now looking at how we can manage the keyset+boards and the money that will be involved.
I think you are prime example of a person who is pushing more int he direction of making it more authentic, as this isn't something that we do everyday, since when we began the idea of the LCARS set, and by looking at the online samples SP had, you were inclined towards PBT better matching the colors which was also fueled by your slight bias towards PBT. However after receiving the sample and more introspect, you realised that the ABS is much more fitting, which goes to show that your are looking for more authentic and not bias by choice of material or printing.
Which reminds me, original you wanted blanks as well, but with the new legends and DS, you now want legends. What a flip!
I for one, would like to go with ABS as well. However I'd like to leave the poll open as long as we can.
I am now looking at how we can manage the keyset+boards and the money that will be involved.
Wonder if SP would cut us a deal since we were making a full set of legends rather than just a few random keys like most GBs do?
So the pricing that I got was the lowest and it is quite good to be honest considering the number of colors we have, which is crazy high :P
We (Those participating in the GB), would own the molds to the legends, which I (If I organise the GB, which looks to be so) would like to give these upto the GeekHack, so that they may be used for any other future projects and maybe round two or LCARS based on another Star Trek series. This is something hopefully norbauer and anyone else involved in the GB can agree upon.
Maybe there is a possibility to make a PBT set with a different Star Trek color scheme that matches the available colors better.
Concerning the ABS vs PBT debate:
This way we don't lose the people who only are in for PBT and vice versa. Some people might even order both versions :)
I'm still trying to convince MK, they aren't interested in running a GB< rather, just buy and then sell.
Most people just use PayPal.
I am fine with using the same, however as I mentioned in PM, since I am in India, we would be wasting around 18% in just PayPal and forex charges, since I will be payed in USD which will be converted to INR, I will then pay SP in USD which will be converted from INR. Thus I need an American partner, willing to take the money and handle that.
I have had one member willing to accept payments.
So now the question is, how do we handle the pre assembled keyboards?
I have had one member willing to accept payments.
This is excellent news! To whomever it is: thank you!So now the question is, how do we handle the pre assembled keyboards?
Rather than having to worry about the extra financial risk and logistics of buying and managing the hardware (especially since MK won't be taking care of things), I would personally favor simply putting together a tutorial page—which I'll be happy to do—specifically for Galaxy Class set for people who are new to keyboards, explaining what they would need to do in order to get the set on a working keyboard. This could a short intro to the set itself, keyboards and keycaps, and include both buying guide to keyboards and an installation/key swapping guide for the keyset.
I think this would make life much easier for us on the GeekHack side of things, while still covering the same objectives/concerns as if we had done all the work to sell pre-assembled sets ourselves. It would also help enhance the keyboard enthusiast community generally by gently nudging people to think about keyboard modding who might not otherwise have done so.
how about setting up a website.
I'll contact cody.
See this: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49634.msg1076457#msg1076457
Perhaps you want to get the colors even more correct?
Hey Moz (et al), excellent news: I just heard back from MassDrop and they are willing to organize this GB for us!
Hey Moz (et al), excellent news: I just heard back from MassDrop and they are willing to organize this GB for us!
Wow this is awesome news. I think we can easily get the 10-15% extra fee back by reaching way more people and getting better tiers. This will make everything more convinient.
Let's hope this will be a nice kickoff to establish a relationship with Massdrop. Maybe through them we will be able to meet GMK MOQs in the future!!
Legend fee is same.
I am all up for going with MassDrop.
Did you discuss the idea of the keyboard? Or just a wire keycap puller?
I would like for GH to own the tooling.
Hopefully they'll be flexible with the addons like we are, we would finalise these before the GB ofcourse, however have tiered pricing on the addons as well. I don't know how theybwould handle this with their current model, but I would like to know before hand.
One thing norbauer forgot to mention is, he will also be compensated for the expenditures on fonts and color rings and these would be taken into costs for production.
hum… the poll results show a major preference for PBT Dyesub and blank sets. So I wonder what was the purpose of the poll ?
I'm not a Massdrop fan since the Ergodox and this 15% tip is not even going to a kb enthusiast vendor. I don't regret to be broke at this time and I hope this GB will have a Round2.
If ErgoDox is ever going to have a shot at catching on, its going to be with the help of an organization like Massdrop. [...] people who want cool or unusual stuff
All opinions are welcome, we are not cannibals to devour you here :P
Is the reason why we're going with Massdrop because we want to sell keyboards with this keycap set pre-installed? Or are we just trying to find someone to handle all the logistics? I'm not following the train of thought in why we're going with Massdrop.
so massdrop is going to carry the ergodox kit? and im guessing at a MOQ that we will be unable to obtain a good price?
Will there be an ISO kit as well?
Maybe it could be merged with the regular keysets:
2 extra keys for the Alpha set and 2 extra keys for the Mod set :)
Will there be an ISO kit as well?
Maybe it could be merged with the regular keysets:
2 extra keys for the Alpha set and 2 extra keys for the Mod set :)
We could add this to the mods set easily.
Will there be an ISO kit as well?
Maybe it could be merged with the regular keysets:
2 extra keys for the Alpha set and 2 extra keys for the Mod set :)
We could add this to the mods set easily.
Sounds good! Thanks for not forgetting about us poor ISO guys :thumb:
For ISO you need these 3 keys plus the enter key:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/dMOlzKD.jpg)
The left shift key is 1.25
The "</>" key is 1.00 (same profile as zxcv)
The "#/'" key is 1.00 (same profile as asdf)
Signature Plastics has all these legends and has done many ISO kits for Geekhack before, so it shouldn't be a problem at all :)
[url=http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48839.0][img width=394 height=80]https://e2ij2g.dm2302.livefilestore.com/y2pRH67ha3l3S3xmkgfQnHnqhaAEOMpMChfJWsvbcCTBYsFkP9TiorRQeLmfvGxISxwZ11mhAO1ERQf4w3puYvEX3F_ZOcuCZMeAYsT4Kds6C4/galaxyclasspromo.gif?psid=1[/img][/url]
For ISO you need these 3 keys plus the enter key:It's the extra keys for qwertZ, not for qwertY : the ANSI "|\" key is replaced by a 1unit (instead of 1.5u ), J-Shape return, left shift reduced to 1.25u to add an extra key.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/dMOlzKD.jpg)
The left shift key is 1.25
The "</>" key is 1.00 (same profile as zxcv)
The "#/'" key is 1.00 (same profile as asdf)
Signature Plastics has all these legends and has done many ISO kits for Geekhack before, so it shouldn't be a problem at all :)
So without reading the whole thread... I can't quite follow what might be available... I see some images here and there, but all of the stuff in the poll results have no images. Can MOZ update the first post with what's been decided so far?
For ISO you need these 3 keys plus the enter key:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/dMOlzKD.jpg)
The left shift key is 1.25
The "</>" key is 1.00 (same profile as zxcv)
The "#/'" key is 1.00 (same profile as asdf)
Signature Plastics has all these legends and has done many ISO kits for Geekhack before, so it shouldn't be a problem at all :)
Legendwise this is perfectly fine.
For me at least it actually doesn't matter what legends are on the extra keys. It's all about giving the set it's intended look.
Therefore in my opinion the left shift key should be the same purple as the ANSI left shift key and the 2 alpha keys should be the same color (light blue) as the ANSI alphas. The enter key matches perfectly :)
Legendwise this is perfectly fine.
For me at least it actually doesn't matter what legends are on the extra keys. It's all about giving the set it's intended look.
Therefore in my opinion the left shift key should be the same purple as the ANSI left shift key and the 2 alpha keys should be the same color (light blue) as the ANSI alphas. The enter key matches perfectly :)
I agree with lechner
Added final design to OP.
I agree with lechner
What the Frell !? Am I replying for nothing ? Your ISO set is so wrong : if you want to do what it looks like a UK set to me, do it properly with all its differences (I gave you a link from Round 4). In this state, legends are totally messed up between US and UK layout and nobody will buy this.
(sorry : bad sleep, bad mood)
What the Frell !? Am I replying for nothing ? Your ISO set is so wrong [snip] legends are totally messed up between US and UK layout and nobody will buy this.
What !? I don't talk about a plenty of European language sets as 7b does but about the choice of a us-qwerty layout in ISO set or a uk-qwerty set. What Bumblebee proposed is a "thing" which doesn't fit in both case : It's clearly the worst choice ever.
I'm not a Massdrop fan since the Ergodox and this 15% tip is not even going to a kb enthusiast vendor. I don't regret to be broke at this time and I hope this GB will have a Round2.
Yeah, this is how it was done with the Klaxon set, but it looked odd in person.
For some reason it looks strange when the Mod colors "spill over" to the Alphas. In my opinion a 2,25x ANSI left shift key can't be replaced by a 1,25x ISO shift key plus a 1x Alpha. Same goes for the Enter key.
Maybe it's just me, but I think all Alphas should have the same color. Looks cleaner :)
I agree with lechner
I would suggest also adding a </> key in the light blue color. That should wrap it up.Don't suggest that MOZ. It gives me some matter and it's wrong for you.
I didn't mess up this thread, don't you realise that I want(ed) to help !? I promise to not bother you and not to spend some time to try to convince narrow-minded people anymore.I'm not a Massdrop fan since the Ergodox and this 15% tip is not even going to a kb enthusiast vendor. I don't regret to be broke at this time and I hope this GB will have a Round2.
No horse in the race. Please see item #2 of the GB rules (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=36773.0).
OK. Latest version.
Moz and Lechner: you guys like? Happy to reconfigure in any way that suits you. :)
I'll contact cody.
Cool. If he is willing to let us use his code and it's written in ASP, PHP, or Rails, I can provide hosting and probably customize the code for our purposes if necessary.
No problem cody, I figured you were busy, so didn't pursue aggressively. You work thus far with Ctrl Alt Store has been great and a preview inot what we can expect from your GB software.
OK. Latest version.
Moz and Lechner: you guys like? Happy to reconfigure in any way that suits you. :)
I really like it :thumb:
Concerning the legend discussion:
There are too many ISO variations out there to make everybody happy. So just take the one that you like and SP has available. I mean we are talking about differences with tertiary legends here...
Personally, I couldn't care less what legends are on it as long as there is anything on it. After all half of all the keys are wrong for me (especially numrow symbols), but since I don't have to look at my keyboard while typing it doesn't matter.
For me it's all about the looks:
Nothing looks odder than a keyboard full of legend keys and a couple of blank keys mixed in. The Bumblebee Set had blank ISO enter keys, which killed it for me.
I would suggest also adding a </> key in the light blue color. That should wrap it up.
No problem cody, I figured you were busy, so didn't pursue aggressively. You work thus far with Ctrl Alt Store has been great and a preview inot what we can expect from your GB software.
No problem cody, I figured you were busy, so didn't pursue aggressively. You work thus far with Ctrl Alt Store has been great and a preview inot what we can expect from your GB software.
I agree with Moz. The Ctrl Alt Store stuff is excellent. Let me know if you want me to help with future projects--I can provide free hosting on Windows Azure if that would be helpful.
Include a 1u "+" GE on YCF in the numpad.
Are the bottom row mods in the MODS keyset, 1.25u or 1.5u. If 1.25u, we need to include a Tsangan kit.
Tsangan kit:
1x 1.75u shift in YCF
1x 1u Fn in YCF
1x 1.5u Ctrl in RCJ
1x 1.5u Ctrl in YCF
2x 1.5u Alt in RCJ
1x 1u Win in RCJ
1x 1u Win in YCF
3x 1u Buffer, Trans, Phase in YCF
1x 1u Nav in RCJ
7u spacebar in GE
7u spacebar in TU
k. will do. To be consistent, though, shouldn't we make this say "SUM"?Yes, ofcourse, my bad, should have said "SUM".
They are whatever size is part of the standard mock-up, which I believe is 1.25.Tsangan set is used for keyboard using 1.5u base mods for Ctrl and Alt and 1u for Win, and can be WKL. Also, they are designed to support shorter right shift too. Many GB now extend on this to allow for some other weird layouts and add some 1u keys that don't have the usual legends, but some sort fo legends, this allows flexibility while still not looking odd with blank keycaps.
Can somebody explain the tsangan mod to me, btw? Are there keyboards that take these natively? I've always wondered what tsangan kits are for. :confused: Anyway, I'll be happy to do this and will get to work on it ASAP.
Should we include these tsangan mods in the catch-all mods set?
k. will do. To be consistent, though, shouldn't we make this say "SUM"?Yes, ofcourse, my bad, should have said "SUM".They are whatever size is part of the standard mock-up, which I believe is 1.25.Tsangan set is used for keyboard using 1.5u base mods for Ctrl and Alt and 1u for Win, and can be WKL. Also, they are designed to support shorter right shift too. Many GB now extend on this to allow for some other weird layouts and add some 1u keys that don't have the usual legends, but some sort fo legends, this allows flexibility while still not looking odd with blank keycaps.
Can somebody explain the tsangan mod to me, btw? Are there keyboards that take these natively? I've always wondered what tsangan kits are for. :confused: Anyway, I'll be happy to do this and will get to work on it ASAP.
Should we include these tsangan mods in the catch-all mods set?
Looks good, and no rush, take your time.
Yeah, don't get me wrong. I'am really in favor of the above mentioned sets.
I am just expecting a little uproar from "the usual suspects" who refuse to pay for any key they don't need. In this case the guys who just want the geekhack key and some of the alternate mods, but don't want the WASD cluster or the ISO keys...
In my opinion merging sets is always better in order to reach the lowest price tier. Maybe we should even merge the TKL set and the numpad to avoid confusion for non geekhack members ("normal" people often don't even know there are keyboards without the numpad...).
If basically everybody who is part of this GB has to order a fullsize set the cost for the extra numpad keys will be negligible.
See the price tiers of the Toxic Numpad Set for comparison:
25 Sets $21.90 / set
50 sets $13.42 / set
75 sets $10.60 / set
100 sets $9.18 / set
150 sets $7.77 / set
200 sets $7.06 / set
250 sets $6.64 / set
I don't think any TKL only user would really mind to pay ~7$ extra for a Numpad he could either sell later or just keep as an option.
I know the prices for this GB won't be as low due to custom legends etc., but I think it's worth discussing - sometimes you have to force people to do the right thing ;)
Include a 1u "+" GE on YCF in the numpad.
Are the bottom row mods in the MODS keyset, 1.25u or 1.5u. If 1.25u, we need to include a Tsangan kit.
Tsangan kit:
1x 1.75u shift in YCF
1x 1u Fn in YCF
1x 1.5u Ctrl in RCJ
1x 1.5u Ctrl in YCF
2x 1.5u Alt in RCJ
1x 1u Win in RCJ
1x 1u Win in YCF
3x 1u Buffer, Trans, Phase in YCF
1x 1u Nav in RCJ
7u spacebar in GE
7u spacebar in TU
I am not in favour of adding the numpad to the core, simply because I believe there are enough members who use a numpad separately.
Congratulations, you have me convinced :)
I was thinking of getting a new TKL board to put this on but I agree that putting the numpad in core is a good idea. Regarding the gamer keys, would they just be a different colour or also dished?
Opinions?
I feel like 2 weeks is a proper amount of time. Firstly, because it almost ensures anyone interested has a paycheck while orders are open, gives us time for exposure, and isn't so long as to make anybody antsy waiting.
Also, I missed about a week of this conversation. Do we plan to include a keycap puller with the set? I will be advertising this as a "If you're new to mechanical keyboards, pick up this set and a QFR at this link:" sort of thing, and I'm trying to avoid sending them to so many places it feels overwhelming.
Yes, please make these from dyesub PBT so I won't have to buy them. ;)
Yep, that's how much I hate PBT.
Yes, please make these from dyesub PBT so I won't have to buy them. ;)
Yep, that's how much I hate PBT.
Any particular reason?
Yes, please make these from dyesub PBT so I won't have to buy them. ;)
Yep, that's how much I hate PBT.
Any particular reason?
I don't like the way they feel. It's probably the main reason I don't dig Topre boards all that much. Same for buckling spring.
• Can you confirm for me that PBT dyesub would result in better font fidelity? Presumably the dot pitch of whatever method you use to render the dyesub pad is smaller than whatever the smallest diameter of your mold cutter is, resulting in better resolution of vectors.
• Can dyesub mockups be presented in the form of vector outlines rather than centerline traces?
• Can you do a full bleed to the edge of the keycap face (or at least closer) with dyesub?
• One of the biggest problems with PBT was that for our yellow/orange color, none of your color ring swatches provided us with an appropriate color match. Can you do custom colors based on a Pantone number? If so, can you let us know what the addition of a single custom color plastic (to replace the yellow) would cost as part of a PBT rendering of this set? For all of the other colors, we have PBT alternatives already selected from the stock SP color line.
I am one of the people that really don't like PBT or DSA for that matter.
However, like norbauer, my primary agenda is to make this as authentic as possible, with personal preferences aside. So, yes, if this means making this keyset in PBT DSA, then be it, I will just swallow it up.
It is however very unfortunate that we weren't able to go with the ABS DS, specially with all the work norbauer had put into it.
'Make it happen'???? Come on dude really? At least use the correct term (Make It So) :P
Also, 'Dis Engage' looks odd. Perhaps 'Red Alert'?
Concerning the ABS vs PBT debate I am indifferent - I like both depending on mood and switch type ;)
But one thing is unclear to me:
I always thought the dyesub process only works on white keycaps? Can they do all colors now?
I mean the main appeal of the set are all the authentic base colors (yellow, purple, etc.).
I don't want to buy an all white set with purple printing on top, etc...
Everyone knows I'm in for this if it's PBT. I'm actually quite excited, and haven't seen any PBT in SA or DSA.
I hope massdrop includes all the price breaks, because there will most likely be hundreds of buys coming in from GH alone, not to include which ever trekkies we can pull in.
Regarding the dye sub process, IIRC you can print any colour onto a lighter surface so black and grey onto lightish caps should be fine. I know my Ducky has black on blue and dark grey caps.
For those of you who, like me, enjoy geeking out on the manufacturing details, I'll provide more info in a subsequent post when I have time to sit down at my computer, probably tomorrow AM.
Got lots more info from SP to share with you guys, and it looks like PBT is definitely going to be the way to go for this particular set due to the nature of the font and the graphical nav wheel/numpad.
I just wanted to clarify, I've never seen a Massdrop buy in that had more than a couple price tiers, where SP always has upwards of like 8 price breaks. I'm curious to see how it translates.
+1 for details. This is pretty cool stuff. I appreciate all the work you've put in so far.
For those of you who, like me, enjoy geeking out on the manufacturing details, I'll provide more info in a subsequent post when I have time to sit down at my computer, probably tomorrow AM.
I would like more manufacturing details!! :D
Loved the knowledge bomb. Very interesting and helps in making decisions for future.
Hopefully the Keepers of Faith can archive this information and add it to the book of knowledge whenever and it whatever format it is published.
Hopefully the Keepers of Faith can archive this information and add it to the book of knowledge whenever and it whatever format it is published.
Firstly, in order to determine whether there will be a special fee or not for making us a custom yellow, they wanted to know how many we estimate that we'll be producing. Can anyone give me an educated guess on this? I'd venture that we'll surpass traditional GH group buy numbers given that this set has appeal beyond just the keyboard enthusiast community, but we should estimate conservatively.
I have no idea who these people are, but I'd be happy to help with any such efforts. If GH had a functional wiki, I'd add this info there... ;)
I think you'll be surprised by how hard-core many Trekkers are: that community certainly has its wallethack equivalents. There will definitely be people who will buy a mech keyboard just to fit this set onto. I personally know several, and I've seen similar discussions on Reddit when a friend of mine even hinted that this set might
I for one never planned on using standard legends, if I had the option not to, simply because as stated by norbauer also, it didn't make much sense having standard and non-standard legends mixed, when I have the option to use the custom legends.
As expressed before I am not a fan of inconsistent sets. For me it's either all legends or full blank.
Blank mods will look weird in my opinion. Imagine the "+" key next to the naked "backspace" key which is above the "\" key which is above a blank enter key...
How much would this even save per set? I don't think it even matters. Let's say this reduces the cost -15$. Do you really think this will make the order number significantly higher?
I mean the average guy who has used a 10$ keyboard for his whole life, will think it's way too expensive anyway. And the actual enthusiast or hardcore Star Trek fan will buy the set no matter what. In my opinion we should aim for the real deal and go for a set with complete legends.
We will definitely be building the components for sublimated DSA, it just might be a matter of time. While I am going to push for the next few months, I can't guarantee any kind of completion time frame at this point.
Well I'll be damned, need some time to think this over. :mad:
OK everybody. UPDATE time.
So after a lot of back-and-forth with SP, it looks like our options aren't as wide as we were hoping.
ABS doubleshot is going to yield lousy legends for our application; we need to do PBT dyesub if we want any hope of rendering the SWISS 911 font with any fidelity.
However, SP cannot currently sublimate on a full DSA set. (!) They can currently only sublimate on 1u, 1.5u, and 2u DSA keys. They are working on the appropriate tooling to do all DSA keys, but it will take a few months. Originally they said two. Now here is the latest re timeline:QuoteWe will definitely be building the components for sublimated DSA, it just might be a matter of time. While I am going to push for the next few months, I can't guarantee any kind of completion time frame at this point.
So, what do you guys think we should do? I'm getting a bit discouraged at this point. It seems the best options are a) wait the unspecified time until DSA dyesub is available and spent the intervening time trying to generate interest, working on promo materials, and building up a large mailing list of people who would be interested, or b) re-work to PBT dyesub with DCS profile. I would consider the latter option a major decrease in the uniqueness of the set, but it could still be cool. And it would mean less waiting, for whatever that's worth.
I'm slightly at a loss, and look forward to hearing other people's thoughts.
Edit: Nevermind, BSP doesn't have required tooling.
Edit: Nevermind, BSP doesn't have required tooling.
Your only bet is still SP - like it or not. I would wait for their SA profile dye-sub because it would be the absolute FIRST one done here on Geekhack Central.......EVAR :thumb: .
You need to be the FIRST to blaze a trail for all others to follow here MOZ. When it goes SA dye-sub all people will remember is the name of the person who started and finished it, and you'll go down in history as the first one who ventured into SA Profile dye-sub, where no one has gone before 8) .
SP can do PBT SA, however I don't think they have the required tooling for that either. :(
Also, the theme of this proposed set goes better with DSA profile than any other.
In my opinion, I put more stock in "our" collective ability to be ready and proceed at our own pace. Drumming up interest in a maybe two months, or maybe five months is going to be a tough sell, and tough position to be in when we have no control.
Doesn't mean going to DCS means we have to be instantly going to a GB, but it means we have a tangible approach in wait time for those interested in the set, and still allows time for marketing, etc... It does lose a bit of the lustre for those on the fence of the GB, but I think DCS will still be palatable, and maybe even preferred.
Edit: Nevermind, BSP doesn't have required tooling.
Your only bet is still SP - like it or not. I would wait for their SA profile dye-sub because it would be the absolute FIRST one done here on Geekhack Central.......EVAR :thumb: .
You need to be the FIRST to blaze a trail for all others to follow here MOZ. When it goes SA dye-sub all people will remember is the name of the person who started and finished it, and you'll go down in history as the first one who ventured into SA Profile dye-sub, where no one has gone before 8) .
SP can do PBT SA, however I don't think they have the required tooling for that either. :(
Also, the theme of this proposed set goes better with DSA profile than any other.
If you want to do PBT in DSA profile, that would be novel. I would be interested in buying some off you :thumb: .
Sorry for not keeping up with your latest posts relating to this possible Group Buy (due to my own laziness) and using DSA in PBT material. Maybe you have already mentioned it, hence my extreme embarrassment here, sorry.
In my opinion, I put more stock in "our" collective ability to be ready and proceed at our own pace. Drumming up interest in a maybe two months, or maybe five months is going to be a tough sell, and tough position to be in when we have no control.
Doesn't mean going to DCS means we have to be instantly going to a GB, but it means we have a tangible approach in wait time for those interested in the set, and still allows time for marketing, etc... It does lose a bit of the lustre for those on the fence of the GB, but I think DCS will still be palatable, and maybe even preferred.
I agree. If we start to drum up interest when we have no idea when the GB will start, we run the risk of a lot of people dropping out or complaining, or just forgetting about it when it actually does start. I have no problem in waiting, and I'm sure that once we are ready to start shouting from the rooftops, the punters will come in droves.
The good thing about the way you guys have run this so far is that you have been unwilling to compromise the quality of the set, or the look that the set is aiming to emulate. Most people here are pretty patient, and even new faces like myself have learnt that a good set, like this one is sure to be, is worth the wait.
Because we're making it for ourselves, we can take the time to do it right rather than worrying about timelines and other more logistical concerns first and foremost.
I would wait it out even on the color matching and mockups, since there is no telling if SP would be successful or not. Although ideally nothing is ever in vain, you learn and experience, but unless things materialise, it can be disheartening, so I would say, take is slow, very slow, until we have full details on SP's complete capabilities.
I'll just play Devil's Advocate for a second. I'm going to point out that there have been GBs like Round 4 and Toxic that lasted a year or more. Is it that important to have DSA that everyone involved here wants to risk waiting 4 months, or 6 months, or more?
I'm afraid you'll lose the momentum you built up. Especially since we don't *know* SP's timeline. But you're right, there's no rush.
On a more personal note, I really wish this was GMK or SP DCS/SA.
I just heard from Melissa at SP and she says they are looking to be able to sublimate on a full DSA profile set as of mid-February, and that progress is being made as we speak toward that end. I also continue to work with her to get all the colors (both of the dyes and resins) exactly right, and also to make sure that we use the process that yields the crispest possible legends for dyesub. We're going to be really at the bleeding edge in terms of keycap manufacturing tech on this project, so I'm increasingly excited for how it's going to turn out, even if it is taking much longer than I might have hoped. ;)
Hi everybody. Just a quick update to let you know that this project hasn't fallen off my (or Signature Plastic's) radar. I just heard from Melissa at SP and she says they are looking to be able to sublimate on a full DSA profile set as of mid-February, and that progress is being made as we speak toward that end. I also continue to work with her to get all the colors (both of the dyes and resins) exactly right, and also to make sure that we use the process that yields the crispest possible legends for dyesub. We're going to be really at the bleeding edge in terms of keycap manufacturing tech on this project, so I'm increasingly excited for how it's going to turn out, even if it is taking much longer than I might have hoped. ;)
I'll keep everyone posted as the final details are nailed down.
Last we heard, they are slated to have the tooling to make this set online by mid-month. When that's lined up, we'll be ready to move to the GB phase.
In short: things are still moving—slowly, but moving! :)
I think this is going to make me shell out for a full size board (other than the terrible Razer Blackwidow I started out with a long time ago..)
quick question will the caps have a smooth texture or (the more desirable) like typing on sugarcubes texture?
Y U NO DO ISO? D:
I'm also still interested and am happy that the choice is DSA. :)
Will there be any blanks? I read the last pages back until October, but couldn't find anything about it.
Y U NO DO ISO? D:
I was actively promoting ISO as you can see in this post there also was a mockup. I don't know why it's not in the OP anymore.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48839.msg1091185#msg1091185
Norbauer, your design image on the 5th says ABS spacebar, but aren't SP working on a DSA PBT spacebar?
I just got approval yesterday for the mockup on the core set; mods and ergo are up next.Awesome!!
The current OP mockups are out of date. I'll ask Moz to update them when I have final ones. I actually confirmed with SP yesterday that we'll be one of the first sets ever (if not the first) to have DSA with a PBT spacebar to match the rest of the set! :D
Y U NO DO ISO? D:
I was actively promoting ISO as you can see in this post there also was a mockup. I don't know why it's not in the OP anymore.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48839.msg1091185#msg1091185
Yissssssss
I think I signed up to the mailing list. I spend far too much money on these things goddamit...
ISO is totally still happening in the mods set. I just got approval yesterday for the mockup on the core set; mods and ergo are up next.
Chinese play soy sauce pass by
The current OP mockups are out of date. I'll ask Moz to update them when I have final ones. I actually confirmed with SP yesterday that we'll be one of the first sets ever (if not the first) to have DSA with a PBT spacebar to match the rest of the set! :D
Just something to take into consideration:
In my opinion it would be wise to delay the launch of the GB a little. Looking at the posts in this thread it is clear that the initial hype for this set has cooled down (which is normal since there weren't too many updates).
Matt3o just ran the Macross GB in DSA and is about to launch an even bigger DSA GB for a grey set. Don't forget that DSA is not the most popular profile ever. In addition to that people just emptied their wallets for the Toxic GB so I am afraid many people won't have enough funds to join yet another DSA GB.
So chose the order period wisely to maximize the order count :thumb:
Just something to take into consideration:
In my opinion it would be wise to delay the launch of the GB a little. Looking at the posts in this thread it is clear that the initial hype for this set has cooled down (which is normal since there weren't too many updates).
Matt3o just ran the Macross GB in DSA and is about to launch an even bigger DSA GB for a grey set. Don't forget that DSA is not the most popular profile ever. In addition to that people just emptied their wallets for the Toxic GB so I am afraid many people won't have enough funds to join yet another DSA GB.
So chose the order period wisely to maximize the order count :thumb:
Agreed, just emptied my wallet for both the Toxic GB and Ivan's Black on Black PBT GB, I am so in for this one but please guys next month or the month after.
Just something to take into consideration:
In my opinion it would be wise to delay the launch of the GB a little. Looking at the posts in this thread it is clear that the initial hype for this set has cooled down (which is normal since there weren't too many updates).
Matt3o just ran the Macross GB in DSA and is about to launch an even bigger DSA GB for a grey set. Don't forget that DSA is not the most popular profile ever. In addition to that people just emptied their wallets for the Toxic GB so I am afraid many people won't have enough funds to join yet another DSA GB.
So chose the order period wisely to maximize the order count :thumb:
Agreed, just emptied my wallet for both the Toxic GB and Ivan's Black on Black PBT GB, I am so in for this one but please guys next month or the month after.
Sounds good to me. I just did the same, so I sympathize. :)
I have sort of intentionally been dawdling on finalizing the designs anyway (the only thing left is the MODS set) because SP has been taking it's merry time getting the production tooling on-line and thus there hasn't seemed like there was any rush. To be fair, we're not just pushing the edge of their first dyesub on DSA PBT, but we're also going to be using a special screen-print process for the sublimation templates that will yield crisper legends than you've probably ever seen with dyesub. There are also details of color-matching the dye to the colors of the other resins in the set on the nav-wheel numpad thing, which is requiring coordination between their third-party screenprinting template/dye provider and SP. This all understandably takes time to work out.
So, at this rate, I'll just keep plowing forward at my current leisurely place; I would say we're looking at around a month from now anyway.
I'd love to see the final mock up soon...
Core - ... Stepped-left stem 1.75u capslock, control, and full touch 1.25u capslock, 1.75u controlCan you explain these a bit more, or show me a keyboard that has them so I can copy the layout in my mockup?
Numpad - Basic Numpad set with 5 deep-dish, 1u RCA 0, 1u RCA 00, 4 extra 1u keys BDJ, 1u SUM 141C, 1 extra 1u 141CFor the Ducky mod: did you mean 4 extra blank 1u BDJ keys in in addition to the four existing keys in the set above the numpad (ALPH, BETA, GAMM, DELT)?
ISO - Short Shift, ISO Enter, @, ~#, \|See this image (http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=48839.0;attach=41188;image) for what we worked out before with Lechner (ignore colors and other mods sets). Did you want a modification?
Some older boards have an off-enter capslock, and it is quite common for users to switch caps and ctrl keys.
I too am in favour of Trek themed caps, however my question is should we include a set with traditional mods, as there are always some members who join the GB for the color-scheme and not the legends and would prefer "normal" legends.
Agreed on both points, if we go the way of the themes legends, we don't need to worry about the caps/control key switch. but having an off-center, stepped is still pretty necessary IMO.
To cut down on keys, I think we cna reduce the number of keys in the Tsangan a bit, particularly the 1u keys, I'll review the set and get back to you.
I have also pinged IMSTO on details whether he can do dye-sub on DSA.
At any rate, SP are currently working on the Group Buy and have told me that they'll have it rolling in early May; they'll be handling all manufacturing, order-taking, and fulfillment. I'll post here and create a new proper Group Buy thread when it is possible to actually start signing up for the Buy in the coming few weeks.
I'm waiting for this too. Any updates?
I'm waiting for this too. Any updates?
Melissa at SP was on vacation for the last week of April and first few days of May. She said she'd get back to me at the beginning of May to get things rolling. I haven't heard back yet, so I'll send a little note to ping her and see where things are. :)
I heard back today from the folks running the Group Buy site (a contractor of SP), and they are currently working on getting the Buy into the system so Melissa can calculate pricing. I don't have any timelines yet, but I'll keep everyone posted. At least things are still moving forward—however slowly. ;)
The Group buy is now live.
Please read full details and move the discussion from this thread over to the Group Buy thread (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58263.0).
Engage!
Hi, I found this thread. Iam working on LCARS keyboard too but it will not be ordinary keybord. It will be more like "real" StarTrek console... Touch controlled with capacitive sensors, lighted including sounds and of course LCARS graphics under the protective layer of Plexiglas.