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geekhack Community => Keyboard Keycaps => Topic started by: RaVNzCRoFT on Sun, 22 September 2013, 20:13:44

Title: PBT keycaps
Post by: RaVNzCRoFT on Sun, 22 September 2013, 20:13:44
I'm interested in getting the Banggood gray PBT keycaps for my Filco Majestouch-2.  First of all, those should fit, right?  They all look the right size to me but it couldn't hurt to get a second opinion.

More importantly though, the title of that product is confusing me.  It says laser etched but it also says engraved.  Is that even a thing?  The legends are clearly visible in the preview picture so it's obviously laser etched, but is there a chance that they're also engraved?  I don't want engraved keys because they'll get dirty.  I'm concerned that there's only one poor-quality preview picture and I'm sure their customer service won't be of any help because they're a large retailer, not a keyboard company.

Anyone have any thoughts?  Anybody bought and received these keycaps yet?  Seems like they're still in the mail for almost everybody.

Also, a quick note:  white PBT keycaps on banned vendor apparently are selling better, so it's more likely that people on GH bought those instead.  But the title of the white keycap set does not mention engraving.  Additionally, the white ones have two Windows keys while the gray ones have one Windows key and one Fn key, so they're definitely not just the same keycap set in different colors.

mod edit: the vendor mentioned is this post is banned on geekhack. however, the post refers to the fairly common thin PBT OEM profile engraved caps that are available nearly everywhere on taobao and vended by many on this board.
Title: Re: PBT keycaps
Post by: divito on Mon, 23 September 2013, 03:01:27
I have no clue what the mod edit is referring to, so I can't really help.
Title: Re: PBT keycaps
Post by: RaVNzCRoFT on Mon, 23 September 2013, 12:11:03
Yeah, I kind of understand mkawa's reason for disliking the retailer I linked to, but his edit really screwed this post over. =/  This was a specific question about the product; with the specific site/product information redacted, I doubt anyone knows what the hell the post is even asking anymore...
Title: Re: PBT keycaps
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 23 September 2013, 17:23:11
Perhaps if you rephrase it more generically, and link to similar products then someone will be able to recommend where to get the keycaps you are looking for.
Title: Re: PBT keycaps
Post by: RaVNzCRoFT on Mon, 23 September 2013, 19:20:05
Well, that's just say that a couple of weeks ago, some people on /r/mechanicalkeyboards noticed a particularly good-looking deal on several sets of Keycool PBT keycaps.  And when I say good deal, I mean ~$25 for a set of 104 caps.  Seeing as this company (abbreviated BG) is from China, some were skeptical about whether or not this deal is legit.  However, they are branded as Keycool keycaps and apparently LinusTechTips did a review of this site, so it would seem as though the deal is in fact legit.  mkawa and I exchanged several PMs and he basically swears by the fact that this site is a scam, but I don't believe it.  He said they used to be known as Tmart, who to be fair have terrible reviews on resellerratings, but BG has a 9.3/10 and there's no indication to me that it's a sketchy site.  Side note:  mkawa also said that BG has spammed advertisements on GH and even offered bribes for business, but I'm simply trying to take advantage of the wonderful capitalist market that is the internet.  I'm clearly not a spammer or affiliated with BG in any way.  Now, I know of plenty of people on /r/mechanicalkeyboards who have purchased these caps.  Although I don't think anybody has received them yet, they are in transit and the company stated up-front that delivery could take several weeks due to customs.  So I don't think I'm being too naive when I say this deal appeals to me.

Anyway, on to my question.  The keycaps I want are gray and are listed as "Keycool 104 PBT Grey Laser Etched Keycap Laser Engraving Key Caps" on the site.  You definitely shouldn't google that text because then you might find the product page.  I'm very confused because it says laser etched but it also says laser engraved, and I didn't think that was a thing.  Laser etched or engraved, but not both.  I don't want engraved because dirt gets in the engravings.  Now, also listed on BG is a product called "Keycool 104 PBT Top Print White Key Caps for Cherry MX Switch."  Notice it says top print but there's no mention of engraving.  Now, one could logically assume that these keycaps are the exact same set in different colors, but I don't think that's the case.  KEYCOOL is clearly visible on the gray spacebar, but you can't see it in the white spacebar and someone on reddit who already received their white keycaps said there's no text on theirs.  Also, the gray set has one Windows key and one Fn key, whereas the white set has two Windows keys.  So even if they're similar keycap sets, they're not exactly the same; therefore, I don't feel comfortable concluding that the gray ones are only laser etched because the white ones are only laser etched.  I don't want the white keycaps because I'm afraid they'll get dirty, plus I don't like the look of white on black.

So that's basically my predicament and I'm looking for any information that may be available.  Also, I had initially wanted to make sure the keycap set would fit on my Filco.  I'm pretty sure it will, but a second opinion couldn't hurt.  With the link in my OP removed, nobody would know.  But now you have a better idea of the product I'm interested in.

Also, note that I'm well aware of the numerous options I have when it comes to PBT keycaps.  The answer I'm looking for isn't "just get a similar set from qtan/feng."  I know I can pay $50-100 for PBT caps from another source, but the low price of this particular set is what caught my eye.
Title: Re: PBT keycaps
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 23 September 2013, 20:38:14
Ah, then if it is this particular set, you might have to bite the bullet and buy them, then let us know what happens.

As for layout, KeyCool is a completely standard layout (assuming ANSI), identical to the Filco and also QFR.  Standard space bar, standard modifiers - any standard ANSI key cap set should fit just fine.
Title: Re: PBT keycaps
Post by: swill on Wed, 25 September 2013, 00:02:28
I just purchased this unnamed set yesterday.  It is still in 'processing', but if you are interested, I can keep this thread updated with what happens.

Just a shout out.  I bought the set in the picture below from 'imsto' and I have to say they are awesome.  He is an A+ seller and a pleasure to work with.
(http://img04.taobaocdn.com/bao/uploaded/i4/T1JTvhXm8kXXbwWS.1_042409.jpg)
Title: Re: PBT keycaps
Post by: PointyFox on Wed, 25 September 2013, 00:09:41
Thesaurus:
"etching - print, impression, carving, engraving, imprint, inscription".

Title: Re: PBT keycaps
Post by: mr. rampage on Wed, 25 September 2013, 08:51:55
Quote from: swill on Wed, 25 September 2013, 00:02:28
I just purchased this unnamed set yesterday.  It is still in 'processing', but if you are interested, I can keep this thread updated with what happens.

Just a shout out.  I bought the set in the picture below from 'imsto' and I have to say they are awesome.  He is an A+ seller and a pleasure to work with.
Show Image
(http://img04.taobaocdn.com/bao/uploaded/i4/T1JTvhXm8kXXbwWS.1_042409.jpg)


Would you have a link to that IMSTO set? They look nice!
Title: Re: PBT keycaps
Post by: Sifo on Wed, 25 September 2013, 08:52:48
We have banned vendors?? O_O
Title: Re: PBT keycaps
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 25 September 2013, 08:56:23
Quote from: Sifo on Wed, 25 September 2013, 08:52:48
We have banned vendors?? O_O

Clearly they broke the VTOS  :))
Title: Re: PBT keycaps
Post by: Sifo on Wed, 25 September 2013, 08:57:07
I can't for the life of me remember who. Oh well. Damn that's scary I hope I don't get banned gg
Title: Re: PBT keycaps
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 25 September 2013, 09:01:11
Quote from: Sifo on Wed, 25 September 2013, 08:57:07
I can't for the life of me remember who. Oh well. Damn that's scary I hope I don't get banned gg

whalebro would avenge you don't worry mkawa is scared of whalebro
Title: Re: PBT keycaps
Post by: swill on Wed, 25 September 2013, 21:02:32
Quote from: mr. rampage on Wed, 25 September 2013, 08:51:55
Quote from: swill on Wed, 25 September 2013, 00:02:28
I just purchased this unnamed set yesterday.  It is still in 'processing', but if you are interested, I can keep this thread updated with what happens.

Just a shout out.  I bought the set in the picture below from 'imsto' and I have to say they are awesome.  He is an A+ seller and a pleasure to work with.
Show Image
(http://img04.taobaocdn.com/bao/uploaded/i4/T1JTvhXm8kXXbwWS.1_042409.jpg)


Would you have a link to that IMSTO set? They look nice!

Just PM him and link the image I posted.  I can not find them on his store right now, but I could not find them when I bought them either.  I just saw that he had sold a set so I asked him if he had any and he did...
Title: Re: PBT keycaps
Post by: acer589 on Fri, 27 September 2013, 14:32:19
If we're talking about who I assume we're talking about (87 cap blank set going for 17.69) then I just got that set yesterday. They're good, but HOLY **** they are tight. I felt like I was going to rip a switch out when I was trying to remove one to get better access to a stabilizer. So, don't get me wrong. They look and feel good, but.... you may need to be okay with them being permanent. Especially if you have PCB mounted switches.
Title: Re: PBT keycaps
Post by: uzoc on Sat, 28 September 2013, 11:25:19
Quote from: swill on Wed, 25 September 2013, 00:02:28
I just purchased this unnamed set yesterday.  It is still in 'processing', but if you are interested, I can keep this thread updated with what happens.

Just a shout out.  I bought the set in the picture below from 'imsto' and I have to say they are awesome.  He is an A+ seller and a pleasure to work with.
Show Image
(http://img04.taobaocdn.com/bao/uploaded/i4/T1JTvhXm8kXXbwWS.1_042409.jpg)


Yes, keep me up to date!
If you have links on where to buy, or any reviews, also.
Title: Re: PBT keycaps
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sat, 28 September 2013, 12:36:00
Quote from: swill on Wed, 25 September 2013, 21:02:32
Quote from: mr. rampage on Wed, 25 September 2013, 08:51:55
Quote from: swill on Wed, 25 September 2013, 00:02:28
I just purchased this unnamed set yesterday.  It is still in 'processing', but if you are interested, I can keep this thread updated with what happens.

Just a shout out.  I bought the set in the picture below from 'imsto' and I have to say they are awesome.  He is an A+ seller and a pleasure to work with.
Show Image
(http://img04.taobaocdn.com/bao/uploaded/i4/T1JTvhXm8kXXbwWS.1_042409.jpg)


Would you have a link to that IMSTO set? They look nice!

Just PM him and link the image I posted.  I can not find them on his store right now, but I could not find them when I bought them either.  I just saw that he had sold a set so I asked him if he had any and he did...

He said he is out of stock.
Title: Re: PBT keycaps
Post by: swill on Sat, 28 September 2013, 19:53:56
Quote from: SpAmRaY on Sat, 28 September 2013, 12:36:00
Quote from: swill on Wed, 25 September 2013, 21:02:32
Quote from: mr. rampage on Wed, 25 September 2013, 08:51:55
Quote from: swill on Wed, 25 September 2013, 00:02:28
I just purchased this unnamed set yesterday.  It is still in 'processing', but if you are interested, I can keep this thread updated with what happens.

Just a shout out.  I bought the set in the picture below from 'imsto' and I have to say they are awesome.  He is an A+ seller and a pleasure to work with.
Show Image
(http://img04.taobaocdn.com/bao/uploaded/i4/T1JTvhXm8kXXbwWS.1_042409.jpg)


Would you have a link to that IMSTO set? They look nice!

Just PM him and link the image I posted.  I can not find them on his store right now, but I could not find them when I bought them either.  I just saw that he had sold a set so I asked him if he had any and he did...

He said he is out of stock.

That's too bad. I was considering getting another set of those.
Title: Re: PBT keycaps
Post by: swill on Wed, 16 October 2013, 21:26:48
I just wanted to follow up on this because I got these keycaps today.  It took about a month to arrive (which isn't actually too bad).

Here are some images.
The front printed is an IMSTO thick pbt (almost cherry profile).  The dark grey is the keycap in question (OEM profile).  The black is a stock Filco keycap (OEM profile).
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
[attach=3]

The legends are pretty crappy on these caps.  That does not surprise me, but if you buy these be aware of this.  It says they are lazer etched, but they feel more like pad printed.  You can definitely feel the printing raised under your finger.

These are by no means high quality keycaps.  You are absolutely getting what you pay for with these.  I was expecting this, but I prefer PBT, so I wanted to get a cheap set of PBT keycaps to tide me over till I got a nice set.

As others have pointed out.  These caps are CRAZY tight fitting.  When I put them on, I am going to lube the stem to hopefully make the cap less permanent.
Title: Re: PBT keycaps
Post by: RaVNzCRoFT on Sun, 20 October 2013, 13:24:35
Thanks for the update!  Do you think there's a big risk of breaking the stems while trying to remove the super-tight keycaps?
Title: Re: PBT keycaps
Post by: swill on Sun, 20 October 2013, 14:31:09
Quote from: RaVNzCRoFT on Sun, 20 October 2013, 13:24:35
Thanks for the update!  Do you think there's a big risk of breaking the stems while trying to remove the super-tight keycaps?

Just take your time and do very small circles when you remove the keycap.  If you have a PCB mounted switch it is more likely that the top of the switch housing will come off.  If that happens, be careful not to lose your springs...
Title: Re: PBT keycaps
Post by: Aliwia on Tue, 22 October 2013, 10:20:25
Could you possible hold down the switch with a flathead screwdriver while pulling the caps?
Title: Re: PBT keycaps
Post by: uberknarf on Wed, 23 October 2013, 16:36:36
Just to add to the information on this seller, I tried purchasing the same PBT set before reading about the seller here.

When I placed the order, there was plenty of stock. We're over 10 days later now, and I just received an email notifying me that they are out of stock. The order had been marked as "processing", and remains in that state on their site. I was given the option of receiving credit or a refund. I've opted for the latter.
Title: Re: PBT keycaps
Post by: swill on Wed, 23 October 2013, 17:01:05
This probably validates the "just-in-time" allogations that others have posted against this seller.

Title: Re: PBT keycaps
Post by: kip69 on Thu, 24 October 2013, 04:13:03
Hey guys.  I actually started ordering from there recently.  I received a cherry blue keycool that I am reviewing now, a ton parts for my gopro camera and a few other bits. Ordering a gopro battery slowed it down. FYI: lithium batteries are now hard to mail and should not be in checked baggage. Find out about that before travel or buying anything with batteries.

I just made a second order of Xmas gifts and case mod supplies (dinoc and paracord)
I hope to buy the clear switch board for Xmas myself.

They are advertising hard. They are trying to get the products and service reviewed. They seem to be doing the right thing here. I don't understand the hate. Would someone kindly point me to some evidence against them. PM me here or on OCN (kip69).  I really want to get to the bottom of this before I go recommending them much more.

Thanks
Kip
Title: Re: PBT keycaps
Post by: uberknarf on Thu, 24 October 2013, 09:40:02
Quote from: kip69 on Thu, 24 October 2013, 04:13:03
Hey guys.  I actually started ordering from there recently.  I received a cherry blue keycool that I am reviewing now, a ton parts for my gopro camera and a few other bits. Ordering a gopro battery slowed it down. FYI: lithium batteries are now hard to mail and should not be in checked baggage. Find out about that before travel or buying anything with batteries.

I just made a second order of Xmas gifts and case mod supplies (dinoc and paracord)
I hope to buy the clear switch board for Xmas myself.

They are advertising hard. They are trying to get the products and service reviewed. They seem to be doing the right thing here. I don't understand the hate. Would someone kindly point me to some evidence against them. PM me here or on OCN (kip69).  I really want to get to the bottom of this before I go recommending them much more.

Thanks
Kip

I don't have time to link you to the posts at the moment, but the short answer is that there is no publicly-available "incontrovertible proof". It's up to you to make a decision based on the information that's out there, which includes the following:


The evidence may be unconvincing for you, and that's fine, but you may appreciate why others are more willing to accept it with this context.
Title: Re: PBT keycaps
Post by: RaVNzCRoFT on Thu, 24 October 2013, 15:10:18
For the record, the only person on GH who seems to have had a problem with BG before this whole issue became publicized is mkawa.  In a post on reddit yesterday, a BG representative refuted all of his claims.  Consumers have a right to buy what they want from whomever they want, and mkawa shouldn't feel such a strong need to discourage people from using a site he personally believes is suspect.