geekhack

geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: wellington1869 on Sat, 06 December 2008, 17:25:20

Title: lubricating alps switches?
Post by: wellington1869 on Sat, 06 December 2008, 17:25:20
Does anyone know if there's a way to lubricate alps switches? Has anyone ever done that? To get rid of that sensation of friction (and/or the offcenter keypress weirdness?)  This applies for both black alps and white alps, I think.

I felt the friction with black alps switches, and now on the white alps switches on the smk-85 too.

(The off-center weirdness is where if you hit a key sllightly off center, the key's resistance is very different and the key doesnt go down smoothly...)
Title: lubricating alps switches?
Post by: lam47 on Sat, 06 December 2008, 17:31:24
It would help in that any dry friction between the slider and the switch case would be gone. However if you got any on the metal plate which snaps for the click it would also change the sound. If you want it quiet you can remove that part from each switch.

You are all about the lube my friend.
Title: lubricating alps switches?
Post by: Chloe on Sat, 06 December 2008, 17:40:06
It seems possible, I don't know how it affects the feel though:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lKnoJui9Z7I
Title: lubricating alps switches?
Post by: wellington1869 on Sat, 06 December 2008, 18:10:39
Quote from: lam47;13923


You are all about the lube my friend.


lol! it appears that way ;) That, and velcro.

Quote
It seems possible, I don't know how it affects the feel though:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lKnoJui9Z7I  


thanks, I forgot about that video. Wonder if it makes a difference. Guess I'll have to try it and report back ;)
Title: lubricating alps switches?
Post by: Chloe on Sat, 06 December 2008, 18:20:12
Maybe these just need some breaking in as with Cherry switches? My G84-4100 still has the plastic friction sound but I think it has got a little less with use. Either that or I'm more used to it.
Title: lubricating alps switches?
Post by: wellington1869 on Sat, 06 December 2008, 19:22:39
ok, so I 'lubed' one of the switches. Didnt have to open it up, I merely took the cap off and 'lubed the side of the alps plunger. It does make a difference, the 'lubed switch has noticeably less friction especially when hit on the corner. Also its noticeably quieter now than the other keys.

I'm also wondering if these are "gray" strong man switches. They look gray to me. The switches in the video look a lot whiter.  If they're "gray" maybe that means they're really intended to be different from whites.

Googling for gray strongman switch doesnt produce any results tho...
Title: lubricating alps switches?
Post by: xsphat on Sat, 06 December 2008, 19:55:06
I have had a lot of Alps switches and variants and I have only felt this friction on one keyboard - the designed-to-suck Apple Adjustable Alps switch. The whites I am on right now don't have any friction and neither did the blacks in my SMK85. Nor on the Northgate. I don't know, maybe I am lucky or immune to the annoyance.
Title: lubricating alps switches?
Post by: Chloe on Sat, 06 December 2008, 19:55:09
You might get more results searching for 笙春 (Sheng-chun) or 笙春企業 (Chun Sheng Enterprises) instead of Strong Man. They might have also changed the branding from ALPS to XM now, as seen in the Filco Zero range. Maybe there were copyright issues.

According to their site:

Quote from:
Our R&D team has designed the best quality Japan ALPS mechanical key switches
Title: lubricating alps switches?
Post by: xsphat on Sat, 06 December 2008, 20:34:56
So for how long has Strongman been manufacturing switches with the Alps name?
Title: lubricating alps switches?
Post by: Chloe on Sat, 06 December 2008, 20:36:37
I think ALPS discontinued the keyboard switches ten years ago.
Title: lubricating alps switches?
Post by: Chloe on Sat, 06 December 2008, 21:27:29
It looks like there is another Taiwanese manufacturer of ALPS, 福華 (Fu Hua). I've seen this name mentioned on other forums before.
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-TW&u=http://www.talkdigi.net/kbt/alpstrue.html
Title: lubricating alps switches?
Post by: lowpoly on Tue, 09 December 2008, 05:42:04
Lube will attract dust.
Title: lubricating alps switches?
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 09 December 2008, 06:13:09
My (real) white Alps on my Northgate don't have the friction feel/sound, either.
Title: lubricating alps switches?
Post by: lam47 on Tue, 09 December 2008, 07:00:29
No my real alps on my board from the bin are smooth as silk.
Title: lubricating alps switches?
Post by: wellington1869 on Tue, 09 December 2008, 10:06:52
hmmm, well the friction is either an age related thing (I've never tried a new board, just used/refurbished ones) or they were some kind of weird exceptions maybe.
Title: Re: lubricating alps switches?
Post by: kilogeek on Tue, 21 January 2014, 16:46:21
I've got black ALPS on a 1988 keyboard (same kind as DELL AT 101 with complicated black ALPS), and yes lube makes a fantastic difference, I tried it on one key only ATM and it's amazing how you don't feel anymore friction plus you can type off-center without feeling that the key is blocked.

Pulling the ALPS cover and lubing is quite easy, but assembling all back is very tricky, at least on the complicated ALPS as IDK how others are. Can't take good macro with my flash so as soon as I get a spot, I'll take pics to show how to assemble it correctly without too much pain. And you can lube much more things than what is shown is the posted video.

As I can't find RO-59 in my area, I bought Louise diff oil 7000 (silicone)
http://www.louiserc.com/products_detail.php?M=2&uID=3&cID=24&Key=64
I like it because it's not too fluid and seems to have a good plastic adherence.

In fact you can almost lube all the inside of the mounted case plus the spring, but better not touch to the small PCB part.
Title: Re: lubricating alps switches?
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Tue, 21 January 2014, 18:19:06
Complicated Alps are the easiest to reassemble, actually.

The worst ones of all are the "contact blade: big" Himake switches (AK-CN2/DN2, i.e. the standard Alps clone since the late 80s) as it takes a lot of effort to force the stationary contact back inside its recess, and you have to get both contacts correctly lined up with the corresponding groove and force it back together. Pretty easy if you're doing this with a loose sample switch, but terrible if it's in a keyboard. The friction is so bad that I actually tore a hole right through a switch with a screwdriver before the top would actually budge and come off. (That was a really old one.)

The worst of all is SMK second generation, as they don't go back together even when you're holding them. You've got the horribly fiddly SMK lintel contact assembly but with the baling wire construction. It's a complete nightmare and of my three loose switches, I just gave on with at least one of them. It's back together, but the slider won't fully depress any more, which is the same problem I keep having with the Himake switches in my MiniTouch.

The switchplate in complicated Alps makes assembly so much easier, as all the fiddly electrical contacts are solidly snapped together into a self-contained unit that's a perfect fit — neither loose, nor excessively tight.
Title: Re: lubricating alps switches?
Post by: kilogeek on Tue, 21 January 2014, 19:18:24
Well I find it more complicated than lubing MX switches anyway. Perhaps once you know exactly what are the good orientations of all parts and in which order you must put them back it seems easy^^ I didn't find any good guide on the web ATM, only low res videos where you see almost nothing.