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geekhack Community => Keyboard Keycaps => Topic started by: swill on Sun, 29 September 2013, 21:55:06

Title: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: swill on Sun, 29 September 2013, 21:55:06: I touch type all the time and I am quite confident on my keyboard, but I have to admit that going to blank keycaps feels a little bit daunting. I am a programmer, so I probably use more keys on a regular basis than a standard typist.

So how do I know that I am ready to jump off that cliff and never have to look down at my keyboard for reference again? Is there a "blank keycap compatibility" test I can take or something? :)

I see so many of you using blank caps. Very often on 60% boards and such where there are many function keys to keep track of.

I have seen some people use a few keycaps of a different color to give them some orientation. That seems smart and might be a good idea to get me started down this road if I have problems with specific things.

I am sure other people have had this same dilemma, so I wanted to put it out there to see if anyone had advice.
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: hydrospell on Sun, 29 September 2013, 22:15:13: I just went for it without much though to these. I'm a hobbyist programmer, not a professional one, so if that's good for me that probably works for you too? Also do you touch type with the correct fingers on the right keys? If you do it's probably burned into muscle memory already including the keys you reach to type symbols.

I just went for it thinking that blank keys will train me with memorising those symbol keys not burned into memory yet.

Edit: to expand further I am using a tenkeyless board but have custom mapping for Caps lock, fn key, media keys and eject key on a Mac computer.
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: rowdy on Sun, 29 September 2013, 22:46:14: The different colours for specific functions is a good idea.

Maybe try just the alphas to start with. Then select groups of other keys.
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Mon, 30 September 2013, 00:57:25: Here, I give you an image of a blank keyboard. Now without looking at a keyboard with legends label each key...
(http://i.imgur.com/pXXUdyq.png)

did you get them all correct? Congratulations legends are only decorative for you from now on.
NO? Well, go blanks and learn the hard way. You can force yourself to remember where everything is eventually. :))
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: dvjz.gh on Mon, 30 September 2013, 01:24:43: For me the main problem is the shift layer of the keyboard . I can't remember the chars on the numbers row. For the transition you could first blank only the words keys.
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: terran5992 on Mon, 30 September 2013, 04:25:57: When you are able to type a perfect sentence with your eyes closed
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 30 September 2013, 04:59:26: You can make the transition at any time..

takes about 3 days to get over the "I'm Lost" feeling of typing on a completely bare surface.

Normally you can somewhat feel the letters.

(http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons/tuzki-bunnys/tuzki-bunny-emoticon-050.gif)
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: snoopy on Mon, 30 September 2013, 05:03:54: just switch to blanks and force yourself to learn it the hard way. And blanks improve your typing skills, cause you can't "cheat".
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 30 September 2013, 05:37:45: The problem comes if you switch back and forth between labelled and blank keyboards.

while you discipline yourself on the blank one, switching back to the labelled one you would probably peek more at the keys, making it take longer to become accustomed to the blanks.
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: smockey on Mon, 30 September 2013, 08:45:41: As mentioned before : go for it!
The sooner, the better.

Not having the possibility to look at your keys is the best way to improve your typing.

step 1 : you will need to look at a map of your keyboard (at least for they keys that you don't "know" well).
step 2 : it'll bother you so much that you will want to learn as fast as possible.
step 3 : profit
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: Tarzan on Mon, 30 September 2013, 08:49:14: If you're not ready for full blanks, pick up a DE-spec Cherry keyboard. Not only will you learn to use the keys that produce the right characters - no matter what's printed on them - you can get a G80-1500 or similar and enjoy the blissful combination of vintage MX Blacks and thick Cherry double-shots.
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: mr. rampage on Mon, 30 September 2013, 09:07:44: Do it! You'll learn it within a month... and people at work won't use your keyboard! ;D

Only trouble I have is with gaming. Switched from WASD to using RDFG - so hitting 3 as opposed to 1 when weapon switching causes some problems as instinctively you'll want to hit 1. Otherwise, programming you shouldn't have any problems after a month.
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: acer589 on Mon, 30 September 2013, 10:38:27: Yeah, no my only problem is when I need to hit like.. &^% those four characters. That and the macro commands on my keyboard. Kinda gave those up.
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: swill on Mon, 30 September 2013, 10:42:16: Thanks for the suggestions. I think the only keys I am concerned with are the shift number keys. I have a pretty good idea of the general area each are, but not sure I have them all down yet. I will probably just switch when my blank cherry poms come in and see how it goes. If I am not positive which is the correct shift number key, I will just do each of the 2 or 3 keys I know it has to be and then delete and retype the correct one. Hopefully I will pick it up quickly and won't have too many issues. :)
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: Reomero on Mon, 30 September 2013, 10:45:44: Quote from: swill on Sun, 29 September 2013, 21:55:06
I touch type all the time and I am quite confident on my keyboard
Yeah you'll be fine with blank keycaps. ;)

When I first switched to blanks I wasn't that confident in my touch typing, so I'd sometimes glance down at my keyboard as some sort of assurance. This habit of glancing down continued as I started typing on blanks and whenever I caught myself doing it, I'd silently giggle in my head. :))

As for the special characters under the numbers, you'll still be fine (as you said, you have a good idea of the general area). It may take a while to really get the hang of it though.
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: esoomenona on Mon, 30 September 2013, 11:19:01: More importantly, why do you want to use blank caps so badly? Because you see others do it? Is it actually appealing to you? I can use blank caps perfectly fine any day, but I just love the look of legends on caps. They add more to the looks and pleasing aesthetics to me personally. I know others truly prefer the blank look.
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: ctbear on Mon, 30 September 2013, 11:43:26: I am a programmer as well, and my current daily driver is a white blank HHKB2. For me the biggest problem (at first) was the number row, and I needed the F keys a lot for debugging. Fortunately I found that the USB plug is aligned with the '8' key of the HHKB, and I just use that as a reference point for all other number keys. I don't know what keyboard you will be using but you can always use different key cap colors to aid you.
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: hazeluff on Mon, 30 September 2013, 12:08:45: Just man up and do it?

If you don't know the keys when you swap, you'll learn where the keys are soon enough. I use blanks on my Mini that I bring around.
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: swill on Mon, 30 September 2013, 13:12:47: Quote from: esoomenona on Mon, 30 September 2013, 11:19:01
More importantly, why do you want to use blank caps so badly? Because you see others do it? Is it actually appealing to you? I can use blank caps perfectly fine any day, but I just love the look of legends on caps. They add more to the looks and pleasing aesthetics to me personally. I know others truly prefer the blank look.

My motivations are:
- I like the look.
- it is easier to put different blank sets together because you don't have to worry about legends matching.
- blank caps are generally less expensive.
- I want to try different types of caps without breaking the bank (eg: $29 for blank cherry poms via GB)

Currently all my caps are front printed (which I do like), but it makes it hard to mix and match and have it look good.
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: xmagusx on Mon, 30 September 2013, 14:36:34: I'd say one of the easiest ways to tell would be to use a keyboard cover. Just some cardboard or whatever that covers your keyboard and your hands so that you are made conscious of any time you actually have to peek to figure out a key.

I myself only made the switch when I got my Dox, since my boards previously had legends and, well, I was never fussed about changing that fact. Honestly, one of the best ways I got used to the different arrangements was the configurator. By having to make a deliberate choice for every key position, it made it easy to remember where everything was. So I'd heartily recommend using a similar tool if whatever board you use has something similar.
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: C5Allroad on Mon, 30 September 2013, 20:10:39: This^^^ I might do this sometime soon.
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: Dubsgalore on Mon, 30 September 2013, 20:15:20: I *learned* to touch type on blanks..i only got good at it once i switches to raindrop :p

Haven't used a blank set since..however i do want one in dsa
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: swill on Mon, 30 September 2013, 21:02:46: @Dubsgalore: Ya, I would have gotten a set if I was more regular then. Those are pretty awesome.

@xmagusx: Yes, I have already starting taking a mental note every time I look down. What I have been noticing is when I do look down it is actually to reposition my hand, not to determine which key is which. That is a good feeling. :)
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: Zeal on Tue, 01 October 2013, 06:19:57: You can always try side printed keycaps. They look blank from the top, but if you really need to search for a key, you can always peak on the side of the caps :P I can touch type ~110WPM but I would still mess up some of the shift keys on the numeric row from time to time. It's usually 1 key off too :c
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: lucifurburch on Fri, 04 October 2013, 04:20:22: ok if you want to know if your ready for blank caps without shelling out for a set, i would suggest removing your current caps then mix all the keys from the same rows together then put them back on your board. (in new positions but correct rows) if you can still type then your good to go. if not, practice makes perfect....
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: Grim Fandango on Fri, 04 October 2013, 05:21:13: For me personally : Never

I had blank keycaps for a while and do not get me wrong, it worked fine. I know where everything on the keyboard is and adapting to it was no issue at all since I did not look at my keyboard before and did not do it with the blank keycaps.

However, that was only true when I had both hands on the keyboard. Things like holding the phone and typing in something real quick proved to be a real pain in the ass. Also punching in numbers in rapid succession without a numpad on the numerical row is something I could not get used to doing. So for me , it kind of restricted me in the ways in which I could use my keyboard.
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: Grim Fandango on Fri, 04 October 2013, 05:27:27: Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Mon, 30 September 2013, 00:57:25
Here, I give you an image of a blank keyboard. Now without looking at a keyboard with legends label each key...
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/pXXUdyq.png)

did you get them all correct? Congratulations legends are only decorative for you from now on.
NO? Well, go blanks and learn the hard way. You can force yourself to remember where everything is eventually. :))

It is funny , because without having my hands on the keys this is actually pretty hard to do. I am not sure whether it works this way, since it is more my hands and muscle memory that know what is where. For example, even when typing : *, ", 5, > you tend to kinda do it automatically. Your fingers know where to go. But if you were to show me a blank keyboard and ask me exactly where those are on the keyboard, it might take me a while. Hell, same thing even goes for letters. This is why I can use a blank keyboard just fine when touch typing, but not when I do not have both hands on the keyboard.
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: Fullcream on Fri, 04 October 2013, 05:45:57: I used to hunt and peck a lot, I didn't know any better. I decided to hit up some Mavis Beacon teaches Touch Typing, after a month of that program I've never had to look at the keyboard again.
I imagine with blank key caps using F keys might be the only thing that I would have to get used to.
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Fri, 04 October 2013, 09:24:47: It's interesting since you talking about one hand typing and so on. This is exactly why I memorized everything (in 2 layouts, US and RU for me) so if I need to type one hand I can imagine the correct place for each character from the place it should have. I don't use blanks much anymore, I only have one board with them, but I do have a few other boards that have other language layouts on the legends but don't actually use those keymapping in the OS. On my primary use keyboards my numrow only have numbers, no shifted punctuation legends. So it still comes in handy knowing where things are supposed to be. It's a little slower without the proper legends since you have to think a little when one hand hunt and pecking but it is doable without getting yourself frustrated.

Also, I can put on a set of caps very quickly these days without really having to think about it much. Kind of like a military man reassembling their firearm. :))
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: Pacifist on Fri, 04 October 2013, 20:29:57: I have a similar question. My keycool 84 has macros programmed to the F keys such as volume up and whatnot. So if I get a replacement cap without said printing on side of cap telling what that key does, will I get used to it quickly, forget about the macros, or get them wrong, as regular keys are simple to remember, but macros that are usually unique to one board aren't.
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: 127001 on Fri, 04 October 2013, 20:36:35: I'm always and advocate for the trial-by-fire method: Just get them and use them even if you don't think you are ready (better yet spend a lot of money on them). You'll learn where everything is, you won't have a choice.

This is how I'll teach my kids to type (or swiftkey or whatever the heck they'll be doing) :P
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: noisyturtle on Fri, 04 October 2013, 21:14:50: For me it was a spatial thing. With blanks, the rows of same looking keys pushed the placement around in my brain and I would wind up doing things 'kujw rgua' instead of typing 'like this.' I need an occasional glance to reassure myself everything's OK, so the trial by fire method's never worked right for me. :-[
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: swill on Fri, 04 October 2013, 21:49:38: Quote from: noisyturtle on Fri, 04 October 2013, 21:14:50
For me it was a spatial thing. With blanks, the rows of same looking keys pushed the placement around in my brain and I would wind up doing things 'kujw rgua' instead of typing 'like this.' I need an occasional glance to reassure myself everything's OK, so the trial by fire method's never worked right for me. :-[

It is required that I have homing nubs on my blank set because I check for them all the time to make sure my hands are in the right place.
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: swill on Fri, 04 October 2013, 21:55:13: Quote from: Pacifist on Fri, 04 October 2013, 20:29:57
I have a similar question. My keycool 84 has macros programmed to the F keys such as volume up and whatnot. So if I get a replacement cap without said printing on side of cap telling what that key does, will I get used to it quickly, forget about the macros, or get them wrong, as regular keys are simple to remember, but macros that are usually unique to one board aren't.

I have a Mac so there are all sorts of function key magic to be used. I use KeyRemap4MacBook and basically setup my function keys however I wanted them. I actually prefer not having labels on those keys because the labels are all wrong anyway. It took me about 1/2 a day to get used to my new mapping. Granted, I only use a few of the keys very often. Volume control, brightness, etc...

What I found for the function keys is that when there was a label printed on them, I never bothered to learn what they did. When I realized the labels were wrong is when I actually mapped in my brain what each of those keys should do. I actually think I use them more now than I did before.
Title: Re: When can you switch to blank keycaps?
Post by: Grim Fandango on Sun, 06 October 2013, 11:48:23: Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Fri, 04 October 2013, 09:24:47
It's interesting since you talking about one hand typing and so on. This is exactly why I memorized everything (in 2 layouts, US and RU for me) so if I need to type one hand I can imagine the correct place for each character from the place it should have. I don't use blanks much anymore, I only have one board with them, but I do have a few other boards that have other language layouts on the legends but don't actually use those keymapping in the OS. On my primary use keyboards my numrow only have numbers, no shifted punctuation legends. So it still comes in handy knowing where things are supposed to be. It's a little slower without the proper legends since you have to think a little when one hand hunt and pecking but it is doable without getting yourself frustrated.

Also, I can put on a set of caps very quickly these days without really having to think about it much. Kind of like a military man reassembling their firearm. :))

I guess that is the "next level" of typing skill, where you are not just able to use every symbol, letter and number on your keyboard by muscle-memory and touch typing, but you can actually instantly recognize the position of each individual key visually as well. Though to be honest, this is not an easy thing to do. Especially since, when touch typing, you do not look at the keyboard, and you wont learn how to do this. For me personally, blanks remain a pain in the behind, even if my touch typing is perfect.