geekhack
geekhack Community => Ergonomics => Topic started by: hoggy on Tue, 01 October 2013, 00:52:04
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I know the home keys are in the centre of the keyboard, reducing the travel difference for keystrokes that aren't on the home row, but I wondered if there wasn't a better arrangement. Sort of an alternative to learning a new layout...
It makes more sense for qwerty,azerty etc, as dvorak, colmak and maltron have tried to put the common keys under those fingers.
Perhaps having the middle fingers resting on the top row, with the other fingers in the normal position.
qwEr uIop
ASdF JkL;
(with the proposed home keys in capitals).
Any thoughts?
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it really depends on the size of your hand and length of your fingers as to which specific keys your fingers rest upon naturally. Personally I've been resting mine on AWEF and JIO; for years, because it just feels more natural to me. Conversely, resting my fingers on the home row for an extend period of time is pretty uncomfortable.
In terms of finger movement on QWERTY, home row is likely the most efficient in terms of finger movement, though it may not be the most comfortable. But if you add in colemak, dvorak or other alternative layouts theoretically designed for efficiency, its a whole new can of worms for discussion.
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Home keys are a way to keep your hands in a position where you know where the rest of the keys are. If you like other position, use it. It will be your point of reference, however, the standard positions make sense so you have easier and faster access to all the keys.
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Theoretically I would think that it'd be worse by design, because with fingers on the home row, they either move up or down, but never more than one row. If they were on the top row, they would move down one or two rows, which I imagine would be straining if you reached for a key like '?', 'Z' or pretty much any bottom row key. I personally like a position with three on the top row, and index fingers on the middle, but I type Dvorak so that might be less applicable.
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All good points.
Perhaps a compromise, asdf for the left home row, but jiop for the right. The , and . keys have a pretty low frequency...
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Theoretically I would think that it'd be worse by design, because with fingers on the home row, they either move up or down, but never more than one row. If they were on the top row, they would move down one or two rows, which I imagine would be straining if you reached for a key like '?', 'Z' or pretty much any bottom row key.
Well, if you try the Kinesis Contoured or even the ergodox, you would change your mind about strain on fingers moving down 2 rows
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Theoretically I would think that it'd be worse by design, because with fingers on the home row, they either move up or down, but never more than one row. If they were on the top row, they would move down one or two rows, which I imagine would be straining if you reached for a key like '?', 'Z' or pretty much any bottom row key.
Well, if you try the Kinesis Contoured or even the ergodox, you would change your mind about strain on fingers moving down 2 rows
I don't use a Kinesis, I use a normal keyboard, as do 99% of people. Therefore I find it meaningless to waste my time thinking of a hand position for something that I don't use. Tell me how your hands feel after typing for a few hours on your format, if you can still type.
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I don't use a Kinesis, I use a normal keyboard, as do 99% of people. Therefore I find it meaningless to waste my time thinking of a hand position for something that I don't use. Tell me how your hands feel after typing for a few hours on your format, if you can still type.
My hands feel wonderful after typing 8 hours straight on a Kinesis. using all rows. My hands fill tired after using a conventional keyboard after just 1 hour.
Home position is in both asdf and jkl;
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I don't use a Kinesis, I use a normal keyboard, as do 99% of people. Therefore I find it meaningless to waste my time thinking of a hand position for something that I don't use. Tell me how your hands feel after typing for a few hours on your format, if you can still type.
My hands feel wonderful after typing 8 hours straight on a Kinesis. using all rows. My hands fill tired after using a conventional keyboard after just 1 hour.
Home position is in both asdf and jkl;
I'm pretty sure that you use all rows on any keyboard, and I find it implausible that you typed more than passingly for eight hours on a Kinesis without eating, using the restroom, or otherwise resting your fingers.
Either way, you haven't refuted anything I've said. I don't use normal configuration with asdf and jkl;, and my fingers get tired after maybe three hours, and I probably type much faster.
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Theoretically I would think that it'd be worse by design, because with fingers on the home row, they either move up or down, but never more than one row. If they were on the top row, they would move down one or two rows, which I imagine would be straining if you reached for a key like '?', 'Z' or pretty much any bottom row key. I personally like a position with three on the top row, and index fingers on the middle, but I type Dvorak so that might be less applicable.
Looking at the Dvorak layout, using 3 upper row keys and index finger on middle row looks like it could work really well, especially if you swap the 6 middle and upper row characters. The lower row is populated with rare chars, so it's okay to "stretch" for them. Also puts the numbers and symbols more in reach.
Personally, AWEF / JIO; is most comfortable for me, but when I am using a standard board, I don't use home keys at all, just float my hands all over the place.
The physical layout of a Kinesis is certainly better for 2 key stretches and the fingers fall naturally on the default home row. However, this may well turn into a physical layout discussion rather than a home row position discussion very quickly if we start discussing which is better. AFAIK, this is meant for standard physical layouts.
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When I'm resting my fingers tend to hover on:
Left: Caps W E F
Right: J I O ;
I've learned to type from the home row way back when, but over time that was the layout that became natural to me. Now, if I rest with my fingers on the actual home row, it's uncomfortable and cramped.
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Theoretically I would think that it'd be worse by design, because with fingers on the home row, they either move up or down, but never more than one row. If they were on the top row, they would move down one or two rows, which I imagine would be straining if you reached for a key like '?', 'Z' or pretty much any bottom row key. I personally like a position with three on the top row, and index fingers on the middle, but I type Dvorak so that might be less applicable.
Looking at the Dvorak layout, using 3 upper row keys and index finger on middle row looks like it could work really well, especially if you swap the 6 middle and upper row characters. The lower row is populated with rare chars, so it's okay to "stretch" for them. Also puts the numbers and symbols more in reach.
Personally, AWEF / JIO; is most comfortable for me, but when I am using a standard board, I don't use home keys at all, just float my hands all over the place.
The physical layout of a Kinesis is certainly better for 2 key stretches and the fingers fall naturally on the default home row. However, this may well turn into a physical layout discussion rather than a home row position discussion very quickly if we start discussing which is better. AFAIK, this is meant for standard physical layouts.
I've been getting carpal tunnel, so having my fingers spread out wide is rather painful and hard to control above 140 wpm. When I'm typing stories or the like, where I use punctuation, I use whatever's comfortable, generally AWEF/JIOP. However, when I'm doing typing tests without punctuation, I use standard ASDF with a wide HIOP.