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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: tbc on Wed, 02 October 2013, 00:32:19
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I know this is probably going to be an unpopular opinion here, but is it possible to make blues louder and higher pitched?
I know everyone here likes the deep topre thock sound, but from the videos I've heard, I'm not very fond of it; it's the better, quieter pitch for the office, but at home, I want something that 'keeps me alert'.
suggestions? it's honestly not a big deal for me, but if it's something easy, then i might give it a shot.
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I don't think you can mod blues to make it louder, most mods only make it quieter.
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theoretically.... you could put metal on the bottom of the switch stem and at where the stem hits? this would be really hard to do though. Why would you want louder clicks? Also don't lube.
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Thinner keycaps would make the click more audible. Thicker style keycaps like PBT insulate some of the sound from the click.
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Put a drum mic in it and hook it up to your surround.
Or you could get a Model F. Those are pretty damn loud.
:P
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Get a glass table, or mouse pad under it
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I know this is probably going to be an unpopular opinion here, but is it possible to make blues louder and higher pitched?
I know everyone here likes the deep topre thock sound, but from the videos I've heard, I'm not very fond of it; it's the better, quieter pitch for the office, but at home, I want something that 'keeps me alert'.
suggestions? it's honestly not a big deal for me, but if it's something easy, then i might give it a shot.
no i like sound of that, only thing which comes to my mind is changing keycaps (ex from pbt to abs). Also as previously ppl wrote get decent model m:) (or F).
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ah.... hm.......
HIT THE KEYS HARDER when you type(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/63d4808b.gif)
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theoretically.... you could put metal on the bottom of the switch stem and at where the stem hits? this would be really hard to do though. Why would you want louder clicks? Also don't lube.
keeps me alert. also, for some reason, it helps me 'visualize' the keyboard and makes everything more accurate (or at least i'm aware of when i make a mistake), my typing accuracy with browns is pathetic.
EDIT:
bottoming out is exceptionally unpleasant, i really try my damnest to avoid it (i hate my MBP because I have to bottom out).
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Don't lube, I found putting heavier springs make the click more prominent.
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The switches themselves - not much as there is very little room to change what is inside the switch and how it works.
You could try placing the keyboard on different surfaces, or removing the rubber feet to avoid dampening the sound.
Type a bit heavier, as tp4 suggested, although this would only really increase the sound from bottoming out.
Or get a keyboard with a louder switch, such as a Model M.
MX blue switches are small, so the sound they make is correspondingly small.
Also how do I bookmark this thread - this is the first time I have seen someone asking how to make a keyboard LOUDER ;)
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My modded blues seem louder. I can't tell if it is real or placebo. I replaced the blue springs with clear springs. Pretty stiff, but very clicky.
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My modded blues seem louder. I can't tell if it is real or placebo. I replaced the blue springs with clear springs. Pretty stiff, but very clicky.
As I mentioned earlier, stiffer springs do make them louder. I guess it is because when you depress the keys and lift your finger off the key, it jumps back with more force, thus a louder click.
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My modded blues seem louder. I can't tell if it is real or placebo. I replaced the blue springs with clear springs. Pretty stiff, but very clicky.
As I mentioned earlier, stiffer springs do make them louder. I guess it is because when you depress the keys and lift your finger off the key, it jumps back with more force, thus a louder click.
Possibly that, or because stiffer springs require striking the keys with more force?
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My modded blues seem louder. I can't tell if it is real or placebo. I replaced the blue springs with clear springs. Pretty stiff, but very clicky.
As I mentioned earlier, stiffer springs do make them louder. I guess it is because when you depress the keys and lift your finger off the key, it jumps back with more force, thus a louder click.
Possibly that, or because stiffer springs require striking the keys with more force?
That's if you "strike". Many of us touch-type, which means pressing fairly softly. Clear springs aren't very heavy up to actuation--only if you want to bottom out they ramp up the force required, and I find that stock Clears are quieter than ergo-Clears (I've used both). So this must be something specific to clicky switches.
edit: to expand on that, I believe in case of very tactile switches like Clears, stock Clears are quieter because the bump period is "faster" to pass. Lighter springs accentuate the bump, thus resulting in a wobblier longer-bump feel, which is also louder. I found ergo Clears overall more clanky than stock Clears. My sample size is small though: a Ducky Shine II with stock Clears vs. Filco with 62g ergo Clears (and sound-dampening material under the PCB). The sound of releasing the cap is definitely more pronounced in tactile switches, as my board with lubed 62g Blacks is by far the quietest I've had to date, both on the downstroke and on the upstroke.
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Might be time to consider a buckling spring keyboard.
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Strike that.
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Strike that.
My modded blues seem louder. I can't tell if it is real or placebo. I replaced the blue springs with clear springs. Pretty stiff, but very clicky.
As I mentioned earlier, stiffer springs do make them louder. I guess it is because when you depress the keys and lift your finger off the key, it jumps back with more force, thus a louder click.
Possibly that, or because stiffer springs require striking the keys with more force?
That's if you "strike". Many of us touch-type, which means pressing fairly softly. Clear springs aren't very heavy up to actuation--only if you want to bottom out they ramp up the force required, and I find that stock Clears are quieter than ergo-Clears (I've used both). So this must be something specific to clicky switches.
Well, but any way you slice it, a heavier spring requires more force to actuate the key, whether you're striking or touch typing.
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The click in blues is caused by the separation (and the reverse motion on the release) of the white slider piece against the blue stem when it 'snaps' past the metal leaf (the actuation point) - and thus, assuming the same striking force while typing (at least during the acclimatization phase) - a stiffer spring would mean a larger separation distance (as the blue stem would be held steadier by the stiff spring). That is pretty much the reason why greens have a more solid click than blues (they use the same stem and sliders) - and yes, stiffer springs in blues does give a more solid click, but only to a point. I would prefer clear springs in blues generally as it brings out most of the click, and very little of the clack since the high bottom out force at the later half of the actuation actually helps with not bottoming out.
As for the topic of ergoclears - photoelectric's observation is pretty much on point, but for different reasons. I have used 55g, 62g, and 65g ergoclears for quite a while. The stiffer springs are quieter, mostly because it is easier not to bottom out. And even if you do - the heavier springs means you do not bottom out as hard. Imagine that your finger strike is rated at about 75g - and keeping this constant, it would mean that you hit the bottom the hardest for 55g, less for 62g and even less at 65g springs. This doesn't even take the tactile bump into account, which makes a difference - it is much harder to 'ride' the actuation point for lighter springs - making it more of a jolt motion once actuation is passed for, say 55g springs.
Stock clears on the other hand, are naturally much quieter than ergoclears - for the same reason stated above. The tactile bump doesn't really contribute much noise to the typing, but the approximate 100cN bottom out requirement helps with the clacking from bottoming out.
@OP - if you want clicky, do what a few others have already suggested and get a buckling spring board, or even complicated blue alps. A much better experience imho.
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As for the topic of ergoclears - photoelectric's observation is pretty much on point, but for different reasons. I have used 55g, 62g, and 65g ergoclears for quite a while. The stiffer springs are quieter, mostly because it is easier not to bottom out. And even if you do - the heavier springs means you do not bottom out as hard. Imagine that your finger strike is rated at about 75g - and keeping this constant, it would mean that you hit the bottom the hardest for 55g, less for 62g and even less at 65g springs. This doesn't even take the tactile bump into account, which makes a difference - it is much harder to 'ride' the actuation point for lighter springs - making it more of a jolt motion once actuation is passed for, say 55g springs.
Stock clears on the other hand, are naturally much quieter than ergoclears - for the same reason stated above. The tactile bump doesn't really contribute much noise to the typing, but the approximate 100cN bottom out requirement helps with the clacking from bottoming out.
I don't bottom out any more on ergo Clears than on stock Clears. I make it a point not to when I touch type. I didn't even bottom out on Browns, which are very light. The difference in sound property for me personally is how I described it. Without bottoming out, my Ducky with stock Clears is quieter than my Filco (wich I've swapped almost entirely to vintage Blacks with 62g springs now, but still have the entire function row of ergo Clears left to do, so I test them periodically). Moreover, I had o-rings on the Filco with ergo Clears and no o-rings on the Ducky, as you can see them blocking the light to the transparent legends with Shine caps.
The increased clanky sound and feel is the reason I did not like ergo Clears. I will give them another try on a different keyboard at some point.
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As for the topic of ergoclears - photoelectric's observation is pretty much on point, but for different reasons. I have used 55g, 62g, and 65g ergoclears for quite a while. The stiffer springs are quieter, mostly because it is easier not to bottom out. And even if you do - the heavier springs means you do not bottom out as hard. Imagine that your finger strike is rated at about 75g - and keeping this constant, it would mean that you hit the bottom the hardest for 55g, less for 62g and even less at 65g springs. This doesn't even take the tactile bump into account, which makes a difference - it is much harder to 'ride' the actuation point for lighter springs - making it more of a jolt motion once actuation is passed for, say 55g springs.
Stock clears on the other hand, are naturally much quieter than ergoclears - for the same reason stated above. The tactile bump doesn't really contribute much noise to the typing, but the approximate 100cN bottom out requirement helps with the clacking from bottoming out.
I don't bottom out any more on ergo Clears than on stock Clears. I make it a point not to when I touch type. I didn't even bottom out on Browns, which are very light. The difference in sound property for me personally is how I described it. Without bottoming out, my Ducky with stock Clears is quieter than my Filco (wich I've swapped almost entirely to vintage Blacks with 62g springs now, but still have the entire function row of ergo Clears left to do, so I test them periodically). Moreover, I had o-rings on the Filco with ergo Clears and no o-rings on the Ducky, as you can see them blocking the light to the transparent legends with Shine caps.
The increased clanky sound and feel is the reason I did not like ergo Clears. I will give them another try on a different keyboard at some point.
here's the thing - I do remember your post a long time ago that you're able to hear the bump in ergoclears - and I may be making a broad statement here, but most people don't hear that bump. Clears as a tactile switch is basically silent (unless you're listening specifically for it - or have really sensitive hearing), and most of the noise comes from bottoming out, and not from actuating the bump.
But yes, if you want to get down to the nitty gritty, the sound characteristics of the ergoclear/clear bump does differ, for those who can hear it, for the same reasons stated above. For lighter springs, to overcome the same bump, there is a larger point of inertia to overcome - which is why you would find, say 55g louder than 62g, and so on for 65g and so on.
But I honestly doubt that most people can actually hear the actuation for clear stems. Are you the Daredevil by any chance? :D
edit: you're actually right about the clanky sound though - my 55g ergoclears have a huge 'thock' even though I generally don't bottom out for most switches, including browns. It is definitely rather clunky feeling as the tactile bump is huge. But as we know, its mostly preference when it comes to feel, and I do like the switch for general typing.
I generally switch between 55g and 62g ergoclears nowadays, and both has its draw. Sometimes I just get sick of the 55g ergoclears and switch to 62g for a day or two, before I want to go back to 55g again.
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Right. Put your finger on a key and press it up and down softly, past the actuation point--and don't move your finger off. Just go up and down a number of times quickly. Tell me you don't hear anything :) If you don't, there's something wrong with your ears! The bump is audible and not that faint.
The clunkiness I'm talking about is an overall result of typing, however. This includes the downward stroke occasional bottoming out, and releasing the caps, so they bounce back. Cap release and bottoming out are far louder than the bump period. But having lighter spings enhanced that clanky sound AND feel for me. My switches truly felt more wobbly to me with a longer bump.
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Right. Put your finger on a key and press it up and down softly, past the actuation point--and don't move your finger off. Just go up and down a number of times quickly. Tell me you don't hear anything :) If you don't, there's something wrong with your ears! The bump is audible and not that faint.
The clunkiness I'm talking about is an overall result of typing, however. This includes the downward stroke occasional bottoming out, and releasing the caps, so they bounce back. Cap release and bottoming out are far louder than the bump period. But having lighter spings enhanced that clanky sound AND feel for me. My switches truly felt more wobbly to me with a longer bump.
lol. i think my ears may be more abused than I supposed (or like I said, your hearing must be pristine). I honestly don't hear anything wrt the bump. the bottom out and cap release is pretty obvious though.
I agree with what you say in the second paragraph. I don't mind how such switches feel though.
ps. we're getting offtopic.
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@OP - if you want clicky, do what a few others have already suggested and get a buckling spring board, or even complicated blue alps. A much better experience imho.
Yeah, clicky Alps are another good choice. Blues/Greens/Whites are pretty mediocre as far as clicky switches go, both in terms of noise and feel.
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@OP - if you want clicky, do what a few others have already suggested and get a buckling spring board, or even complicated blue alps. A much better experience imho.
Yeah, clicky Alps are another good choice. Blues/Greens/Whites are pretty mediocre as far as clicky switches go, both in terms of noise and feel.
I think in the case of whites it is by design.
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You could use a keyboard with PCB-mounted switches and a large case that acts as an echo chamber. For instance, a G80-3000.
Mine, with PCB-mounted clears is louder than my keyboard with lubed plate-mounted clears, and I suppose that the same will apply to blues.
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Aluminum case also helps. I tried to make a video of how loud my modded blues are in a Vortex case. I don't think my potato really does it justice. Here's the video anyway, though.
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^ gosh your board looks so freaking good.
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^ gosh your board looks so freaking good.
That's high praise, coming from you :cool:
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Can barely hear the click in that video :) Have you lined the bottom with anything absorbing? I had the pleasure of typing on a full-sized Filco with Blues after I put some shelf liner foam thing under the PCB, and the sound was amazing (to me anyway) after that modification.
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Can barely hear the click in that video :) Have you lined the bottom with anything absorbing? I had the pleasure of typing on a full-sized Filco with Blues after I put some shelf liner foam thing under the PCB, and the sound was amazing (to me anyway) after that modification.
Vortex case can't really fit a Phantom, so there wasn't room. (more detail here (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46827.msg1063176#msg1063176))
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summary:
best advice: get another switch type
unfortunately, that's not what I'm interested in, I enjoy the MXverse too much lol.
so for me:
get a metal case (heavier is better?)
avoid thick caps
swap stock blues for clear springs (stronger springs increase click and stock clear 'ramp up' helps prevent annoying bottoming out sound + feel)
other advice:
change your typing surface to glass (not happening for me)
sound about right?
EDIT:
has anyone done the blues with clear springs mod before? if it becomes a stock clear that makes noise, that'd be heaven (even if it wasn't any clickier than a blue).
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I have blues with 80g springs from Originative and I love them for their clickiness.