geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Tempiz on Sat, 12 October 2013, 23:00:52
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Well, I am currently using my IBM Model M, and I love it! But, I would just like to know, for future reference. If there is a keyboard with buckling springs that feels better than the Model M. I heard the Model F felt even better so I have been watching that. Give me your ideas and opinions!
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I wanted to post "impossible", but I see that you mention the F. The F is generally said to feel better than the M, but getting it converted to USB will probably take a lot of effort, depending on the connector type you use.
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There are few enough keyboards with BS - it would not be too difficult to obtain one of each and compare them.
Especially considering that the only place that still makes them is Unicomp, and it is said that Unicomp boards, although good, do not really compare to an original Model M.
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Well, I am currently using my IBM Model M, and I love it! But, I would just like to know, for future reference. If there is a keyboard with buckling springs that feels better than the Model M. I heard the Model F felt even better so I have been watching that. Give me your ideas and opinions!
The key press of a Model F is lighter and snappier, which translates to a more enjoyable typing experience, in my opinion. I've yet to find anyone who's tried both and prefers the feel of a Model M over a Model F. Not one.
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Next stop is a Model F, and then on to the shady Beam Spring cul*coughs*club...
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Model f's are pretty expensive. Stick with your model m :)
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You might experiment with different model "Model M's" -- buy yourself a silver label Model M.
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I belive that they have the same feel. Not worth the money to try them out
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There's some degree of variance between them due to differences in the tolerances that were specified for the springs, but it's not always beneficial (for example, I have a 1985 Model M that is painfully stiff to type on). The nicest feeling Model M I've typed on is my SSK, which is bolt modded and uses Unicomp springs.
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I'm about to get my Unicomp PC-122, which I was really lucky to get a real good deal on.
I just wish I could find something similar for a Model F, I wouldn't mind paying what they go for in the US, however the total price after incorporating international shipping, it hurts.
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I'm working my way through an F-122 ANSI layout conversion and Soarer converter. On Friday I got my Teensy breadboard prototype hooked up and programmed, and I'm using the first of my two keyboards right now. The typing feel is just incredible. I'm going to have a very difficult time going back to a Model M after this.
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I've yet to find anyone who's tried both and prefers the feel of a Model M over a Model F. Not one.
The F AT will work without any modifications beyond a simple adapter plug.
Otherwise, my opinions have been stated ad nauseam.
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Well, I am currently using my IBM Model M, and I love it! But, I would just like to know, for future reference. If there is a keyboard with buckling springs that feels better than the Model M. I heard the Model F felt even better so I have been watching that. Give me your ideas and opinions!
The "M" stands for mountaintop. You have been there sir.
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Model f's are pretty expensive. Stick with your model m :)
Compared to Topre or Korean customs they're not that bad :))
I haven't personally tried one, but from what I have heard, if you like the Model M you should give the Model F a try.
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Model f's are pretty expensive. Stick with your model m
Cheapskate. They're generally no more expensive than a higher priced Ducky.
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model F XT's should be pretty cheap still.
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model F XT's should be pretty cheap still.
Probably because nobody really wants them due to their layout, in my opinion.
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This ^^
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Even ATs or 122 keys should be on the higher end of affordable.
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I'd get a reasonably priced F XT if shipping wasn't a bomb
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Aside from an F, the Model M is top notch. I've never used a better board IMO.
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There is no real upgrade to the M. But you should try the SSK.
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I have used a lot of boards including an F and allways come back to the M. I would like to purchase an F at some point, but my M's will last me until then.
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Probably because nobody really wants them due to their layout, in my opinion.
There is solid agreement for the proposition that the F XT (and its more bizarre predecessors and cousins) are the best-feeling of all the buckling spring keyboards.
But the layout is an abomination, and I do not even keep one in my collection. However, the last time I sold one, the buyer was delighted. It was the first keyboard he got with his first computer at age 13, so it was like coming home.
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I'd get a reasonably priced F XT if shipping wasn't a bomb
Why?
Seriously, have you ever used an F XT?
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Why not? Where I am located, I don't have the liberty to "try" and "use" one before buying anything.
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Why not? Where I am located, I don't have the liberty to "try" and "use" one before buying anything.
I have the same problem. I've never even seen a mechanical keyboard I didn't own (other than the ones that have been shipped to me to work on) save for some at the airport and a G80 at the local autozone.
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I am currently typing on a silver label Model M that fohat helped me get going again, and other than a few quirks I'm trying to work out with rollover, it is a pretty damn bad ass keyboard. Previously most of my model M experience was on the new Lexmark made ones, and this one is a step up.
That said, I wouldn't mind getting a F to ANSI mod. My first experience with a computer was on a IBM 5150, so I do know how things are on that, and really do enjoy those keyboards, but I now am more used to ANSI, and really do prefer it.
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The only mechanical keyboard sold in my area, more like my country are the ones from CM (Again not all variants), Razer, some Corsair and SteelSeries. That is it.
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Hey, when Geekhack started out, it was pretty hard to find mech keyboards in Europe (aside from incredibly insane ones)
Even still, most of my keyboards were shipped to me from the US, often the shipping added another 50% onto the price. Do I regret it? Nah...
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If only I had a stable source of income :(
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"Upgrade" "Model M"??? Good luck to you, adventurer!
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If only I had a stable source of income :(
You and I BOTH!
"Upgrade" "Model M"??? Good luck to you, adventurer!
Haha! So true.S
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Why not? Where I am located, I don't have the liberty to "try" and "use" one before buying anything.
Do you think most people elsewhere in the world have the liberty of trying a Model F before buying one? I asked 'why' because you referred to an XT rather than AT version. If I were you and planned to buy one, I'd get an AT rather than XT version, though. As stated, the XT layout is atrocious.
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When you are paying such a huge shipping fee, the price difference (as a percentage) between the AT and XT lessens significantly.
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When you are paying such a huge shipping fee, the price difference (as a percentage) between the AT and XT lessens significantly.
But the overall price skyrockets.
I was able to pick up a couple of XTs very cheap (<$25 shipped) a few years ago (before Soarer) when the $60 Hagstrom (the ugly one without an enclosure) was the only way to run them. I felt how great they were, but could not abide the layout.
A year later, I got desperate for an F AT, and the market had swung against me. I had to wait months, and buy about 3 at exorbitant prices ($125-150, 2 years ago) to get a really nice one. Apparently, there were a couple of other people just like me, and when we were sated the supply opened up again and prices dropped to reasonable levels again.
Unfortunately, I think that demand has permanently overtaken supply for both SSK and F AT, and with international shipping from the US stuck at $78, there are just not likely to be any bargains, unless you stumble onto an incompetent seller who does not understand what he has or what he is doing.
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What fohat said.
Just looking to get it cheaply. It is highly unlikely I would use it as a daily, as I am getting the groove on my ErgoDox, and doubt I would ever leave it.
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AT&T 305b uses buckling spring, but I don't have one and I never tried to type on it. Heard that it's lighter.
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As a model F lover, let me respectfully suggest that you NOT bother to upgrade. You would only wind up obsessed with it and struggling to make a Model F fit your needs.
If you tried a model F, you would like it, but all Model Fs have their problems and quirks.
No.1 is the giant, the F122. These have a tendency not to come to you in good condition. I ain't fohat, I'm not opening them to fix hammers that got moved during shipping. If your F122 comes to you with that problem, have fun fixing your F. You will scream Fxxx 122 times. Actually I haven't tried to fix my F122, although I have screamed Fxxx at least 20x with my F XTs since I tried putting them together about 20x. F122 is not something that an ordinary geek has the strength to handle. Fohat is not a weak ordinary geek, so he can handle it.
No.2 is the F AT. Nice layout, but spacebar needs both thumbs to press and not to mention there is that gigantic ancient return key made for people with F AT little fingers and lack of modern ctrl-alt-windows keys on the bottom row.
No.3 is the F XT. Very entertaining layout and a similarly entertaining spacebar. Are you buying a keyboard to play with, or are you expecting to do serious work on your keyboard?
No. 4 is the F AT with a serial connector. You better know programming if you want to make it work with a soarer. Somebody here has managed but I can't remember his name.
No. 5 is the F Unsaver that is a Model C. Saves you no space, weird layout, you need to do a heck lot of work to make it work. I think somebody here has one that works but again I don't remember his name. It's not Dorkvader.
Dorkvader replied to your thread. I suggest you :-* his ass and make good friends with him. He's part of a team of heroes trying to bring about a Model F revival. Save your money and buy an F after Dorkvader and friends have managed to revive a non-infuriating user friendly Model F. Don't be an idiot like me and spend money and time struggling with the Fs and wind up with opened up Fs that don't work.
That said, this is typed on a model F XT. I found it impossible to get back to a Model M, even though I still make lots of mistakes on the spaces due to the stiff spacebar, and my " and / and returns are often screwed up. Yeah, don't be like me and start and get addicted.
Well, I am currently using my IBM Model M, and I love it! But, I would just like to know, for future reference. If there is a keyboard with buckling springs that feels better than the Model M. I heard the Model F felt even better so I have been watching that. Give me your ideas and opinions!
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If you do succumb consult fohat.digs write-up to see some of the things you might be working with even if you gen an ANSI F.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48786.0
I've in the middle of an F AT project and wishing I had more skill and patience currently.
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If you tried a model F, you would like it, but all Model Fs have their problems and quirks.
You should consider a vintage classic keyboard like a vintage classic car.
Most people buy one is some state of disrepair from "barely running" to "rusting in a field with weeds growing through the body" because they enjoy, or at least tolerate, the process of grinding and repairing and rebuilding at the workbench as part of the endeavor.
Unlike the car, where an immaculately restored pristine functioning specimen can be purchased at a price, regardless how high, those keyboards are simply not generally available.
And, my personal experience has shown that although people post here all the time about how much they want one, they feel like they should be available for cheap. I have gotten pretty disgusted with the attitude because I have been through the difficult and protracted process of locating, buying, and building several of these. Believe me, MANY hours are consumed with a large quotient of frustration.
If you want a Model F in a useable configuration but are unwilling to take the beast apart and put it back together, then you need to forget it and stick with the Model M. The robust case and strict ANSI layout are very comforting.
In my opinion, if I sold one of mine, an appropriate price would be something on the order of twice the price of a brand new Topre or a bolt-modded SSK. Whoever squawks at that statement has never done one himself, and anyone who has will nod his head in agreement.
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I'm with you OP. But - I know to get what I want is no small amount of work - which is a true ANSI Model F. So everytime I think about how to go about making one, I just settle on keeping my Model M.
(Although I still think about getting an F Space Unsaver [1387033] and an external numpad [1393387].)
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Dorkvader you are my new best friend :p
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Dorkvader you are my new best friend :p
Haha! He's awesome.
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Just looking to get it cheaply. It is highly unlikely I would use it as a daily
It's highly unlikely you'd use it at all. Well, other than to fondle the keys occasionally and wish it were an AT so you could actually get some use out of it. And other than the happy soul which fohat sold his F XT to, I've never heard of anyone who does use one, even on an irregular basis. Unless you're buying it solely as a collectible, I wouldn't bother.
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fohat, how does that compare to what I had to do for my silver label. From what I've seen, it largely is restoring the plate, fabricating a new foam pad if needed, and the highly tedious process of placing all the springs into the proper place and hope like hell that nothing slips out of place (much like it was on my M). Anything else is related to getting things talking with new computers, usually via soarers.
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placing all the springs into the proper place and hope like hell that nothing slips out of place
This is at least an order of magnitude more difficult.
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This has been discussed at length before, but maybe not lately.
Many people are under the misconception that the Model F and the Model M are similar variants of essentially the same thing. This is not true.
Although they look similar (depending on the model) on the outside, under the skin they are worlds apart. The only thing that is actually the same is the key caps.
After you have completely disassembled one of each, you will come away with an appreciation of just how different they really are, through and through.
Going back to my automotive comparison, it is about like the difference between a 1958 Buick Roadmaster and a 1988 Buick Roadmaster.
The Model F is a steampunk behemoth, and the Model M is a good solid modern machine.
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This has been discussed at length before, but maybe not lately.
Many people are under the misconception that the Model F and the Model M are similar variants of essentially the same thing. This is not true.
Although they look similar (depending on the model) on the outside, under the skin they are worlds apart. The only thing that is actually the same is the key caps.
After you have completely disassembled one of each, you will come away with an appreciation of just how different they really are, through and through.
Going back to my automotive comparison, it is about like the difference between a 1958 Buick Roadmaster and a 1988 Buick Roadmaster.
The Model F is a steampunk behemoth, and the Model M is a good solid modern machine.
This is why I want to try a Model F, the cheapest one, irrespective of the layout. I know I won't be using it much in anycase since I am getting used to the ErgoDox layout. It is for the collection and the experience of using an F. I have my first BS, a Unicomp PC122 on the way.
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This is why I want to try a Model F, the cheapest one, irrespective of the layout. I know I won't be using it much in anycase since I am getting used to the ErgoDox layout. It is for the collection and the experience of using an F. I have my first BS, a Unicomp PC122 on the way.
My prediction: you get it, you love it but hate the layout -- and then you get sucked into the sand pit of modding it to ANSI... good luck! :thumb: I love my Model F 122, I don't even mind the layout anymore. It could use a flossing maybe, but other than that it's awesome.
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This is why I want to try a Model F, the cheapest one, irrespective of the layout. I know I won't be using it much in anycase since I am getting used to the ErgoDox layout. It is for the collection and the experience of using an F. I have my first BS, a Unicomp PC122 on the way.
My prediction: you get it, you love it but hate the layout -- and then you get sucked into the sand pit of modding it to ANSI... good luck! :thumb: I love my Model F 122, I don't even mind the layout anymore. It could use a flossing maybe, but other than that it's awesome.
You read me bro! :D
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You read me bro! :D
Or, like me, you just begin to love the keys and the vertical Enter key is forgotten.
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No.2 is the F AT. Nice layout, but spacebar needs both thumbs to press and not to mention there is that gigantic ancient return key made for people with F AT little fingers and lack of modern ctrl-alt-windows keys on the bottom row.
There's a mod for the space bar on the AT and XT which lightens it out.
Meanwhile, in beam spring land, the 5251, which has an almost identical layout to the XT is sought after by some for having the most sensible layout :D
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Not exactly an upgrade, but I got an Unicomp Ultra Classic 104, while still keeping my 1989 Model M. The reason? I wanted a daily drive at the office that wouldn't leave me stranded. I know, chances are that maybe the Unicomp will give up the ghost before the M, but there's a sense of certain security by having a recently-built (7/17/2012) unit.
Also, the fact that it takes less space is a nice plus, and I also don't feel guilty by modifying it--changing keycaps, etc.
So maybe not an upgrade, but more like a companion for daily use.
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I thought about flossing my M, but I ended up not doing it, and really kinda like it as is now. It is kinda soothing to hear the rapid fire hammering as I am typing. I really love it when I am on a tear and just ripping up and down the keys. My new cube at work is fairly well sound proofed, with sound baffles on 3 of the four sides, so my neighbors really don't seem to hear it all that much.
The tall enter you really don't notice after a while. If you type much on keys that wear fast, you'll see that you tend to get certain patterns down where you hit the keys. With different shapes, you may shift a bit of where you strike the key, but once you're used to the difference then things just seem natural.
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I second fohat on this. And I love his analogy of a car that you buy knowing you love working on cars, despite all that nasty grease and dirt.
I rant because I hate the frustration of fixing something beyond my abilities, but I actually love spending time working on my keyboards - cleaning, sanding, disinfecting, dyeing, painting, fixing up the teensy. As disgusting as a keyboard is when it is dirty, I will rather personally clean it up than have another man do it for me. This way, it's MINE.
And I feel sorry for fohat when he tries to sell a keyboard. I mean, his time is already being valued at less than minimum wage in Bangladesh, and people still won't pay for it.
Furthermore, let me speak a few words on behalf of fohat. F XT is a BIG PAIN to fix. F122 is probably an ULTRA UEBER PAIN. (There are not two but three rows of tabs which makes it exponentially harder to put togehter properly, not to mention the curvature of the plate and the extra row on top of the keyboard make it even harder to put together without at least one hammer coming out of place.) Those who don't do their own fixing don't understand how insulting it is when they throw low balls at fohat.
If you tried a model F, you would like it, but all Model Fs have their problems and quirks.
You should consider a vintage classic keyboard like a vintage classic car.
Most people buy one is some state of disrepair from "barely running" to "rusting in a field with weeds growing through the body" because they enjoy, or at least tolerate, the process of grinding and repairing and rebuilding at the workbench as part of the endeavor.
Unlike the car, where an immaculately restored pristine functioning specimen can be purchased at a price, regardless how high, those keyboards are simply not generally available.
And, my personal experience has shown that although people post here all the time about how much they want one, they feel like they should be available for cheap. I have gotten pretty disgusted with the attitude because I have been through the difficult and protracted process of locating, buying, and building several of these. Believe me, MANY hours are consumed with a large quotient of frustration.
If you want a Model F in a useable configuration but are unwilling to take the beast apart and put it back together, then you need to forget it and stick with the Model M. The robust case and strict ANSI layout are very comforting.
In my opinion, if I sold one of mine, an appropriate price would be something on the order of twice the price of a brand new Topre or a bolt-modded SSK. Whoever squawks at that statement has never done one himself, and anyone who has will nod his head in agreement.
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i use F XT on a daily basis. It is frustrating at times, but somehow I got used to the frustration and the typos and can't stop.
I do have an F122 that I have vowed to start to repair by October 1 next year. That means sometime in September 2014 I will start work on it. Who knows? I might be using it daily by October 2, 2014 (HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA)
Just looking to get it cheaply. It is highly unlikely I would use it as a daily
It's highly unlikely you'd use it at all. Well, other than to fondle the keys occasionally and wish it were an AT so you could actually get some use out of it. And other than the happy soul which fohat sold his F XT to, I've never heard of anyone who does use one, even on an irregular basis. Unless you're buying it solely as a collectible, I wouldn't bother.
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F122 is probably an ULTRA UBER PAIN.
Especially if you handicap yourself by trying to do it without the proper tools.
These things were made in factories where 5-ton presses were standing around waiting to press something.
I get messages from people about their failures, but they always admit that they are not using a comprehensive set of clamps to do this:
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Berzerkfan, I'm kinda in the same boat. I really do like working on things. For my M, I had bought a predrilled barrel plate from someone who had a spare, simply because I didn't trust doing things with the tools at my disposal. For something like that, I'd only feel comfortable drilling with a drill press, and I lost a bunch of tools in a fire. Right now, I am in a small apartment, with just a smattering of hand tools. I don't even have an electric drill (just a push drill that I use on PCBs). I knew if I were to try, I'd **** it up. Once I had it, I was like a pig in slop. I was happy tearing everything apart (which it needed it, about half of the plastic blobs was broke off). I think I'd like working on an F, despite the increased difficulty, partially because I know that i could work on everything with the tools I have, and that it is tinkerable.
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if you don't like doing fussy, tedious handiwork at the workbench, you should buy a standard keyboard off the shelf.
mess around with goofy key caps if you need something to do.
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Crap, sorry about that.
Please don't pester the man, he did me a solid because he had a spare.
I guess I need to stop posting when I've only had 3 or 4 hours sleep.
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I think you can handle the F XT. Me, I've put them together successfully just that they still don't work and Ihaven' been able to figure outwhy. BTW you can see that when I choose not to correct my spacebar typos, they're there.
Berzerkfan, I'm kinda in the same boat. I really do like working on things. For my M, I had bought a predrilled barrel plate from someone who had a spare, simply because I didn't trust doing things with the tools at my disposal. For something like that, I'd only feel comfortable drilling with a drill press, and I lost a bunch of tools in a fire. Right now, I am in a small apartment, with just a smattering of hand tools. I don't even have an electric drill (just a push drill that I use on PCBs). I knew if I were to try, I'd **** it up. Once I had it, I was like a pig in slop. I was happy tearing everything apart (which it needed it, about half of the plastic blobs was broke off). I think I'd like working on an F, despite the increased difficulty, partially because I know that i could work on everything with the tools I have, and that it is tinkerable.
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On yours, is it certain keys don't work, or the board just acts dead?
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Furthermore, let me speak a few words on behalf of fohat. F XT is a BIG PAIN to fix. F122 is probably an ULTRA UEBER PAIN. (There are not two but three rows of tabs which makes it exponentially harder to put togehter properly, not to mention the curvature of the plate and the extra row on top of the keyboard make it even harder to put together without at least one hammer coming out of place.) Those who don't do their own fixing don't understand how insulting it is when they throw low balls at fohat.
From what I've been led to believe, the XTs (and many of the oddball Model F terminal designs) are hard to reassemble than the ATs and 122s due to their plates being more curved than the AT's and 122's. This, however, accounts for the fact that the older Model Fs are nicer to type on as the plates and switch modules are clasped together more tightly. (I believe that bolt modding the later designs can help make them nicer to type on)
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Oddly enough, I didn't have too many issues sliding back 122s together even after foam replacement - though I didn't use thick foam, but rather 1/32 epdm. It did need some helping along, mostly via putting it sideways and applying downward force on the top plate. I can easily see, however, how a set of clamps will make it trivial, though, particularly a long one (pipe, etc) like fohat showed.
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on my latest try, nothing show up on keyboardtester.com, BUT HIDlisten returns two rffs for each key. Does that sound like there is electrical connection? I can reassure you that I HAVE tried different cables, teensies, adapters, etc. and ALL of them are not the problem. I've contacted soarer and am awaiting his sacred reply.
On yours, is it certain keys don't work, or the board just acts dead?
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From what I've been led to believe, the XTs (and many of the oddball Model F terminal designs) are hard to reassemble than the ATs and 122s due to their plates being more curved than the AT's and 122's.
The XTs I did went back together easily. Part of it depends on whether the plates are "happy" or "sprung" in their respective curvatures.
The huge span of the F-122 curve, and the fact that there are 3 of them that have to nest comfortably, make it tight.
All of my F-122s now get about 3-4 bolts along the innermost spine of curvature, between the numbers and upper F keys, and one over near the 6-pack.
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I am planning on using relatively soft 1/32" silicone on the F AT. I also have some 1/16" if the 1/32" is too thin. Also have some 1/16" neoprene.
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I am planning on using relatively soft 1/32" silicone on the F AT. I also have some 1/16" if the 1/32" is too thin. Also have some 1/16" neoprene.
I would be interested to hear how it works. The barrels (aka chimneys) embed themselves into the mat, and I have come to like the thicker, sturdier mats better, but that may just be me. Foam will compress quite a lot, silicone probably won't.
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I would be interested to hear how it works. The barrels (aka chimneys) embed themselves into the mat, and I have come to like the thicker, sturdier mats better, but that may just be me. Foam will compress quite a lot, silicone probably won't.
Will do. Mind if I ask what thickness of neoprene you tried?
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I would be interested to hear how it works. The barrels (aka chimneys) embed themselves into the mat, and I have come to like the thicker, sturdier mats better, but that may just be me. Foam will compress quite a lot, silicone probably won't.
Will do. Mind if I ask what thickness of neoprene you tried?
I don't know, I got it from wcass. It was probably the thinnest, softest type. It was very light and fragile.
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Probably 1/32 or 1/64th. Figuring out the best thickness would have been easier if I had kept the existing mat and measured the thickness:)
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60 duro 1/32 epdm worked for me quite nicely, other than being hard to punch and close. Softer silicone of same thickness may be easier to close, though, but may also tear easier.
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I caught the keyboard bug at the beginning of this year. I'm a software developer and used a model M as my daily driver since the mid 90s.
This year I managed to find a great deal on eBay for an AT F-84 for $49.99 BIN. Then another guy on eBay had a pair of F-122s, one looked like it was run over and the other looked like it had been rescued from a WW2 shipwreck. He wanted over $100 each for them but they didn't sale after relisting a couple times and I worked out a much better deal with him. I got them for parts so I could convert the AT-F to ANSI and do the M-space bar transplant and add ALT keys.
I first did the AT-F mod. It's now like a "neo-industrial Model F". Using the very informative posts here I was able to successfully do the ANSI mod and add the ALT AND spacebar mod. Added a teensy and painted the case using a dead-on match for the industrial M color. Did a cool two-tone grey scheme like I saw on an ancient Cherry board over on Deskthority. It now is a modern board in every way, "natively" USB with a modern layout, and pretty quiet with flossed springs.
As at testament to how incredibly durable these boards are, by the time I was finished I was able to also restore the better of the F-122s, with ANSI and teensy as well (it's dated Oct 1984!). Finally I got the other one restored with the help of "fohat", sending me some extra barrels and springs.
I rattle on here just to make the point that getting one of these things is just fun to do. Starting with something that looks like a totally useless and obsolete piece of hardware and restoring into something that is not just functional, but superior to anything you can buy new today is cool. The only thing needed to do it is patience.
A couple observations about the F: like others have said, they are totally different boards from the M. Oak Technology made the F (at least the internals). The F-122s have "birth certificates" like the model M, stamped with a date of manufacture. They are way more heavy than an M, and solid. The key action is light and smooth. Because of the large hammers and capacitive PCB plate they rock on, they are much louder than the small hammers that rock on top of the M's plastic membrane and plate.
I'll stop going on now....just get one and have fun with it! There is tons of stuff you can do with them.
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I caught the keyboard bug at the beginning of this year. I'm a software developer and used a model M as my daily driver since the mid 90s.
This year I managed to find a great deal on eBay for an AT F-84 for $49.99 BIN. Then another guy on eBay had a pair of F-122s, one looked like it was run over and the other looked like it had been rescued from a WW2 shipwreck. He wanted over $100 each for them but they didn't sale after relisting a couple times and I worked out a much better deal with him. I got them for parts so I could convert the AT-F to ANSI and do the M-space bar transplant and add ALT keys.
I first did the AT-F mod. It's now like a "neo-industrial Model F". Using the very informative posts here I was able to successfully do the ANSI mod and add the ALT AND spacebar mod. Added a teensy and painted the case using a dead-on match for the industrial M color. Did a cool two-tone grey scheme like I saw on an ancient Cherry board over on Deskthority. It now is a modern board in every way, "natively" USB with a modern layout, and pretty quiet with flossed springs.
As at testament to how incredibly durable these boards are, by the time I was finished I was able to also restore the better of the F-122s, with ANSI and teensy as well (it's dated Oct 1984!). Finally I got the other one restored with the help of "fohat", sending me some extra barrels and springs.
I rattle on here just to make the point that getting one of these things is just fun to do. Starting with something that looks like a totally useless and obsolete piece of hardware and restoring into something that is not just functional, but superior to anything you can buy new today is cool. The only thing needed to do it is patience.
A couple observations about the F: like others have said, they are totally different boards from the M. Oak Technology made the F (at least the internals). The F-122s have "birth certificates" like the model M, stamped with a date of manufacture. They are way more heavy than an M, and solid. The key action is light and smooth. Because of the large hammers and capacitive PCB plate they rock on, they are much louder than the small hammers that rock on top of the M's plastic membrane and plate.
I'll stop going on now....just get one and have fun with it! There is tons of stuff you can do with them.
Would love to see some pics of them, especially from the painted one. :)
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Oak Technology made the F (at least the internals).
What's your source for this? I seem to recall that there were one or two Model Fs that have been posted on here which had the internals swapped for a third party one made by a company called Oak, but these were not buckling spring keyboards. IBM certainly assembled the internals of the Model F (see the video below) although whether all the parts were made by IBM themselves is hard to know.
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Hi ch_123,
I caught the bug at the beginning of this year, so my knowledge is likely not as exhaustive many of you guys. So I was only offering some observations, perhaps they were too general. The Model Fs I have rebuilt (only 3 of them, and only spanning two models-- the 6450200 (84-key AT-F) and the 6110345 (122-key 3180 Terminal), had word "OAK" embedded in the capacitive plate PCB. That was my only observation. I have no idea about who's factory they were built in. Maybe OAK was only the OEM of the plate part only, I'm not sure. Where the Fs and Ms made in the same factories?
I plan on taking pictures of my boards and posting them soon. I think I'm done accumulating boards, now it's time to reflect and share. :)