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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: HydraDyne on Mon, 21 October 2013, 05:58:31

Title: Poker II or Leopold FC660M
Post by: HydraDyne on Mon, 21 October 2013, 05:58:31: So I have been wanting to get a mechanical keyboard for a while, and I have finally figured out what I actually want. I want a small, Cherry mx Blue keyboard. The two best options I have found are the Poker II or the Leopold FC660M, the dilemma is the price. I would rather a Poker II because I think it looks better but it seems to be quite rare these days, the cheapest one I have found being $176 after shipping (to Australia) on Ebay, and the cheapest Leopold being $142 after shipping (again to Australia) on Ebay. My uses are Gaming and medium amounts of typing (still a student).

So what should I do? I would rather have the Poker II but its seems like a bit of a waste of money to get less keys.

Links: http://www.ebay.com/itm/KBC-Poker-II-60-Mechanical-Keyboard-Cherry-MX-Blue-PBT-caps-Programmable-/121152936849

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Leopold-FC660M-Mechanical-keyboard-Cherry-MX-Blue-switches-W-Gray-body-/300934432623?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item461117076f

Thank you for reading this thread, sorry for any bad grammar/spelling.
Title: Re: Poker II or Leopold FC660M
Post by: Latin00032 on Mon, 21 October 2013, 06:10:08: That's a tough call.

You might need to try both to make a decision.

I like the Poker 2. You don't have to move your hands too far off the home row. You might not like having to hold a function key at the same time though.

You really need to ask yourself if you want those dedicated arrow keys.

If you want to swap keys, the leopold has a funky space bar. You will have difficulty matching it with new key sets if you have any.
Title: Re: Poker II or Leopold FC660M
Post by: PointyFox on Mon, 21 October 2013, 06:12:17: Both are overpriced (I got my Poker II for $95 shipped), though the Poker II is a little more overpriced than the Leopold is in this case (normally the Leopold costs more). Though I would pick the Poker II over the Leopold for its programmability, size, and easier keycap swapping. If I were you though, I'd look for something I wouldn't have to pay a huge premium for.
Title: Re: Poker II or Leopold FC660M
Post by: zoolzoo on Mon, 21 October 2013, 06:37:58: Poker II because it will be more flexible in the long run. First of all it comes with really nice thick PBT caps stock. The key cap sizes are standard and so you will be able to put whatever sets you wish in the future. The Poker 2 is very mod-able... the PCB is ready for LED's and the firmware has LED control built in. Also, there a lot of nice trays around here for the Poker 2...you wont be able to find a sexy aluminum housing for the Leopold. You say you are a gamer, and so I can tell you that missing the dedicated arrow keys wont be an issue. Slap down the Fn key with your right hand, and the arrow keys are right there as "WASD"....exactly where you would want them.

Finally, the Poker 2 is small and sexy. So, if you can find the Poker 2 at a reasonable price I would go for that. I see that you are in Australia though, and so I understand that may be difficult. If you do get the Leo, its still a great board.
Title: Re: Poker II or Leopold FC660M
Post by: ynrozturk on Mon, 21 October 2013, 06:56:45: I would go for the Poker II. I don't think I could ever get used to the Delete/Insert keys on the Leopold. Stuff like that drives me crazy.
Title: Re: Poker II or Leopold FC660M
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 21 October 2013, 07:20:39: Definitely Poker 2.. unless the FC is programmable, which I don't recall that it is...(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/df13952b.gif)
Title: Re: Poker II or Leopold FC660M
Post by: Linkbane on Mon, 21 October 2013, 09:36:50: I would go for the Leopold because I like the layout of having slightly separated arrows and actually having a delete key that I can use.
Title: Re: Poker II or Leopold FC660M
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 21 October 2013, 09:42:50: I vote for the Poker II. You can setup the layers as you wish, there's a lot of aftermarket cases it will fit in, and you get a nice set of stock keycaps. And I just think the Poker II looks cleaner. Plus I love the stock spacebar. I will always enjoy my feeling :P
Title: Re: Poker II or Leopold FC660M
Post by: Binge on Mon, 21 October 2013, 10:17:01: Poker II. It is probably the best bang for the buck with a keyboard in that class.

Plate mounted, stock PBT caps, beautiful PCB, and 2 programmable layers.

Win!
Title: Re: Poker II or Leopold FC660M
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 21 October 2013, 13:35:35: Quote from: Linkbane on Mon, 21 October 2013, 09:36:50
I would go for the Leopold because I like the layout of having slightly separated arrows and actually having a delete key that I can use.

Don't Lie... You just have a deep seated pathological aversion towards agreeing with me... (http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/073.gif)

I like to also add that it is SUPER easy to mod the switches on the Poker because it's pcb mounted.. You can try out all the combinations panda-clear, ghetto green, etc...

On the FC it's 2 hours of desoldering, and 1 hour of soldering it back...

And if you end up not liking the switch mod you made.... That's another 3 hours of swapping... (http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/th_082_.gif)
Title: Re: Poker II or Leopold FC660M
Post by: PointyFox on Mon, 21 October 2013, 14:42:47: Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 21 October 2013, 13:35:35
Quote from: Linkbane on Mon, 21 October 2013, 09:36:50
I would go for the Leopold because I like the layout of having slightly separated arrows and actually having a delete key that I can use.

Don't Lie... You just have a deep seated pathological aversion towards agreeing with me...
Show Image
(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/073.gif)

I like to also add that it is SUPER easy to mod the switches on the Poker because it's pcb mounted.. You can try out all the combinations panda-clear, ghetto green, etc...

On the FC it's 2 hours of desoldering, and 1 hour of soldering it back...

And if you end up not liking the switch mod you made.... That's another 3 hours of swapping...
Show Image
(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/th_082_.gif)

He linked the Poker II which is plate mounted.
Title: Re: Poker II or Leopold FC660M
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 21 October 2013, 15:49:01: Quote from: PointyFox on Mon, 21 October 2013, 14:42:47
Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 21 October 2013, 13:35:35
Quote from: Linkbane on Mon, 21 October 2013, 09:36:50
I would go for the Leopold because I like the layout of having slightly separated arrows and actually having a delete key that I can use.

Don't Lie... You just have a deep seated pathological aversion towards agreeing with me...
Show Image
(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/073.gif)

I like to also add that it is SUPER easy to mod the switches on the Poker because it's pcb mounted.. You can try out all the combinations panda-clear, ghetto green, etc...

On the FC it's 2 hours of desoldering, and 1 hour of soldering it back...

And if you end up not liking the switch mod you made.... That's another 3 hours of swapping...
Show Image
(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/th_082_.gif)

He linked the Poker II which is plate mounted.

Oh right... I totally forgot the poke 2 was mounted...

Ok.. reassess....

Hmm..........

Get poker 2, get gh60 plate, Be Happy..

This is still a better plan, since we don't have a mod-friendly plate out for the fc yet.
Title: Re: Poker II or Leopold FC660M
Post by: Linkbane on Mon, 21 October 2013, 15:51:15: Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 21 October 2013, 13:35:35
Quote from: Linkbane on Mon, 21 October 2013, 09:36:50
I would go for the Leopold because I like the layout of having slightly separated arrows and actually having a delete key that I can use.

Don't Lie... You just have a deep seated pathological aversion towards agreeing with me...
Show Image
(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/073.gif)

I like to also add that it is SUPER easy to mod the switches on the Poker because it's pcb mounted.. You can try out all the combinations panda-clear, ghetto green, etc...

On the FC it's 2 hours of desoldering, and 1 hour of soldering it back...

And if you end up not liking the switch mod you made.... That's another 3 hours of swapping...
Show Image
(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/th_082_.gif)

:D I did so much agreeing with your posts today, what's going on?
Still, the obnoxious 'enjoy your feel' on the Poker annoys me. Vortex and their crappy customer service.

Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 21 October 2013, 04:31:17
If you're sure it's only 5x keys..

It MAY be cheaper and much faster to fix this yourself.

Desolder the keys.. open up the keys, drop all parts into a glass of alcohol... lightly stir or shake...

Wait for them to dry... Rub off residue on the slider and leaf spring carefully.

then resolder them back.

But yea.. you can buy 5 switches from WASDkeyboards

Anyways, I just have much want for the FC660C.
So tp, what's your opinion on Topre switches?
Title: Re: Poker II or Leopold FC660M
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 21 October 2013, 15:58:35: Quote from: Linkbane on Mon, 21 October 2013, 15:51:15
Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 21 October 2013, 13:35:35
Quote from: Linkbane on Mon, 21 October 2013, 09:36:50
I would go for the Leopold because I like the layout of having slightly separated arrows and actually having a delete key that I can use.

Don't Lie... You just have a deep seated pathological aversion towards agreeing with me...
Show Image
(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/073.gif)

I like to also add that it is SUPER easy to mod the switches on the Poker because it's pcb mounted.. You can try out all the combinations panda-clear, ghetto green, etc...

On the FC it's 2 hours of desoldering, and 1 hour of soldering it back...

And if you end up not liking the switch mod you made.... That's another 3 hours of swapping...
Show Image
(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/th_082_.gif)

:D I did so much agreeing with your posts today, what's going on?
Still, the obnoxious 'enjoy your feel' on the Poker annoys me. Vortex and their crappy customer service.

Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 21 October 2013, 04:31:17
If you're sure it's only 5x keys..

It MAY be cheaper and much faster to fix this yourself.

Desolder the keys.. open up the keys, drop all parts into a glass of alcohol... lightly stir or shake...

Wait for them to dry... Rub off residue on the slider and leaf spring carefully.

then resolder them back.

But yea.. you can buy 5 switches from WASDkeyboards

Anyways, I just have much want for the FC660C.
So tp, what's your opinion on Topre switches?

HISTORICALLY.. I am against TOPRE, because I bought one under the assumptions that it was the "The Best thing that ever happened to Mankind"...

This was based on the recommendations and the raving reviews of the GH Topre-fanbois...

I was underwhelmed by the 87u that I got.. and Became ANGRY at the hype that got me into buying it. it wasn't the money/cost, it was the sheer disappointment... I was sad-panda for a whole week...

I don't think it's a BAD switch... just not AT ALL the super switch it was made out to be..

As far as design... I do think it provides a more uniform keystroke when struck at off angles due to the circular slider... That is what I believe to be the main advantage over MX...

But... it really ENDS there for me...

Mx, You get a plethora of customiz-ability... repair-ability... easy find repair-parts...
Title: Re: Poker II or Leopold FC660M
Post by: HydraDyne on Mon, 21 October 2013, 16:37:36: So it Poker II then, does any one know where I can get one which is cheap, the only problem is that it seems like only American websites stock them, but it costs $50 to ship it down to Australia. Also what price should I get it at, the one in the link is $120, is that a good price, or is it too much. I am just scared that if I don't buy it soon it might very well sell out and I will be stuck with a rubber dome until the next one comes around...

Thanks for helping my decision.
Title: Re: Poker II or Leopold FC660M
Post by: JaccoW on Mon, 21 October 2013, 17:21:26: Did you look at Qtan's website? (http://www.vendio.com/stores/E-sports-Gaming-equipments/item/kbc-poker/kbc-poker-2-61keys-mechanical-/lid=35050923)
It's probably cheaper but I am not sure. Since he ships them from China.

I have a secret crush on the Leopold. The Poker looks cute and is infinitely moddable but I use the DEL and ARROW keys a lot when editing.
Title: Re: Poker II or Leopold FC660M
Post by: Linkbane on Mon, 21 October 2013, 17:42:59: Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 21 October 2013, 15:58:35
HISTORICALLY.. I am against TOPRE, because I bought one under the assumptions that it was the "The Best thing that ever happened to Mankind"...

This was based on the recommendations and the raving reviews of the GH Topre-fanbois...

I was underwhelmed by the 87u that I got.. and Became ANGRY at the hype that got me into buying it. it wasn't the money/cost, it was the sheer disappointment... I was sad-panda for a whole week...

I don't think it's a BAD switch... just not AT ALL the super switch it was made out to be..

As far as design... I do think it provides a more uniform keystroke when struck at off angles due to the circular slider... That is what I believe to be the main advantage over MX...

But... it really ENDS there for me...

Mx, You get a plethora of customiz-ability... repair-ability... easy find repair-parts...

Dangit, one more sensible post and I might have to send you a buddy request. :confused:
Title: Re: Poker II or Leopold FC660M
Post by: zoolzoo on Mon, 21 October 2013, 18:11:58: I miss ergodox tp :))
Title: Re: Poker II or Leopold FC660M
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 21 October 2013, 19:00:10: Quote from: zoolzoo on Mon, 21 October 2013, 18:11:58
I miss ergodox tp :))

The power-drunken mods said If I talk about the ergodox anymore in a "non-dox" thread... I'd get permaban...

So i must swallow some pride to continue to dole out at as much Ergo-goodness as possible...

This is sad news, when I think about all the great kids coming in here deprived of Doxformation.

(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/th_001_-v2.gif)
Title: Re: Poker II or Leopold FC660M
Post by: Latin00032 on Mon, 21 October 2013, 19:25:22: I was hopping for more ergodox GBs on geekhack.

Like, better key cap support. Not just blank mods.

Also, aluminum cases for the ergodox. Not just aluminum layers, but like a quality 2 piece case. And hard anodized!
Title: Re: Poker II or Leopold FC660M
Post by: kgrad5 on Wed, 23 October 2013, 09:04:21: I have both an fc660m with clears and a poker II with browns. I use the leopold at work and the poker at home. I am a computer programmer by trade.

I really enjoy both keyboards. I think that the poker looks better as the insert/delete on the leopold looks unbalanced, if that is a concern to you. The real difference (other than the switches, where your mileage may vary) is the arrow keys. I find that I am not yet used to fn + wasd on the poker. While the keyboard is really nice and a joy to type on, I do miss the arrow keys on the leopold a lot. This of course will likely go away over time as I continue to get used to the Poker. They are both great keyboards and I would recommend either of them.
Title: Re: Poker II or Leopold FC660M
Post by: Hellmark on Wed, 23 October 2013, 16:16:28: When you're like this, tp, I feel less like wanting to stab you. You're actually enjoyable.
Title: Re: Poker II or Leopold FC660M
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 23 October 2013, 16:44:15: Quote from: Hellmark on Wed, 23 October 2013, 16:16:28
When you're like this, tp, I feel less like wanting to stab you. You're actually enjoyable.

One day, when You got an ergodox of your own... You'll understand this overflowing of joy. (http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons/tuzki-bunnys/tuzki-bunny-emoticon-007.gif)
Title: Re: Poker II or Leopold FC660M
Post by: Hellmark on Wed, 23 October 2013, 20:29:17: Maybe if we can get things to where there would be a buckling spring Ergodox.

I dunno if it is just me, but I think that I would miss too many keys on the Poker. The arrows I use the snot out of.
Title: Re: Poker II or Leopold FC660M
Post by: lake on Wed, 23 October 2013, 20:52:11: Hey HydraDyne have you seen this place called MechKB? I think they are in Western Sydney somewhere and they sell leopold and vortex.

They have the poker listed, good price but no Blues in stock:
http://www.mechkb.com/products/mechanical-keyboards/vortex-kbc-poker-ii.html

Maybe ask them if they are expecting some more, it might be worth the wait. Actually let me know because I kind of want one now :D. They have an account on this forum somewhere.
Title: Re: Poker II or Leopold FC660M
Post by: ideus on Sun, 09 February 2014, 21:12:53: Quote from: kgrad5 on Wed, 23 October 2013, 09:04:21
I have both an fc660m with clears and a poker II with browns. I use the leopold at work and the poker at home. I am a computer programmer by trade.

I really enjoy both keyboards. I think that the poker looks better as the insert/delete on the leopold looks unbalanced, if that is a concern to you. The real difference (other than the switches, where your mileage may vary) is the arrow keys. I find that I am not yet used to fn + wasd on the poker. While the keyboard is really nice and a joy to type on, I do miss the arrow keys on the leopold a lot. This of course will likely go away over time as I continue to get used to the Poker. They are both great keyboards and I would recommend either of them.

How solid do they feel in comparison? I know Poker 2 has now a plate, and the Leopold also has a plate. And how do the switches feel. I have a Leopold with browns and a Poker X (no plate) with reds, and I am considering to get a new with blues, either a Leopold or a a Poker 2, but I am struggling to make my mind.
Title: Re: Poker II or Leopold FC660M
Post by: Linkbane on Sun, 09 February 2014, 22:29:10: Quote from: lake on Wed, 23 October 2013, 20:52:11
Hey HydraDyne have you seen this place called MechKB? I think they are in Western Sydney somewhere and they sell leopold and vortex.

They have the poker listed, good price but no Blues in stock:
http://www.mechkb.com/products/mechanical-keyboards/vortex-kbc-poker-ii.html

Maybe ask them if they are expecting some more, it might be worth the wait. Actually let me know because I kind of want one now :D. They have an account on this forum somewhere.

You can view them in the vendor forums. Although I personally haven't bought anything from them, their customer service is excellent. I remember, when the Vortex DS caps were newly coming out, I sent them an email regarding if they would consider shipping to the US (because the Massdrop at the time was very quickly full), and within a month or so they managed to make it so. In my opinion, they are a highly trustworthy company.