geekhack
geekhack Marketplace => Group Buys and Preorders => Topic started by: czarek on Wed, 23 October 2013, 08:03:17
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For last couple of weeks I was looking for a cheap and reliable source for Ergodox PCBs in Europe as importing from mechanicalkeyboards.com will be just too expensive (pretty much double the initial cost).
I found out a company locally that agreed to make the PCBs for: 25 each set (left + right side).
Minimum order is 20 sets. It will be 1.55 mm thick PCB (they do all ranges from 0.1 up to 3.0 mm, I measured PCB of G80-2500 as a reference) with thick copper, black soldermask and white labels.
It will take them 16-24 days to produce the small batch.
Also for those interested in this PCB I can also cut the 2 piece PVC case for 50 so you save on shipping and get a nice case :)
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For last couple of weeks I was looking for a cheap and reliable source for Ergodox PCBs in Europe as importing from mechanicalkeyboards.com will be just too expensive (pretty much double the initial cost).
I found out a company locally that agreed to make the PCBs for: 25 each set (left + right side).
Minimum order is 20 sets. It will be 1.55 mm thick PCB (they do all ranges from 0.1 up to 3.0 mm, I measured PCB of G80-2500 as a reference) with thick copper, black soldermask and white labels.
It will take them 16-24 days to produce the small batch.
Also for those interested in this PCB I can also cut the 2 piece PVC case for 50 so you save on shipping and get a nice case :)
Sounds interesting! Where do we get the case though?
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I'd be in for a set pf PCBs and a case for sure.
What else would we need to source to get a full Ergodox up and running? Teensy, switches, diodes and something to connect the 2 halves I guess.
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I'd be in for a set pf PCBs and a case for sure.
What else would we need to source to get a full Ergodox up and running? Teensy, switches, diodes and something to connect the 2 halves I guess.
I'm on it. I'm trying to get cheap and reliable sources for all electronic components locally, although some will have to be imported (Teensy, MX Switches, keycaps).
The goal is to have similar kit as the one on Massdrop for less, available without the silly wait and with option to get the keyboard fully assembled in either PVC or Aluminium case. I can't say anything about pricing yet but I can tell you I won't be making any money on it.
This 25 for PCBs is only so low because I can go and pick it up from the factory without paying for shipping, otherwise the price would be 1-2 more on each set.
The only money I may be making is on cases but it's hard to say really as the material is not really that cheap, I need to replace bits pretty much for every case to get nice finish and I have to spend some time (3 hours per one PVC case set to be precise) with the machines to cut them. I don't even count lease for the machine and the energy costs so you see I'm not trying to get rich on community. It's rather opposite. I like the ErgoDox very much and I'm pissed off by massdrop. I believe there is more people like me and I want them all to enjoy their ErgoDoxes :) That's also the reason I share my case designs on GitHub so anyone who has access to CNC machines can cut their own cases for themselves or even sell them to make money - I don't care.
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Can we 'Muricans get in on this 50 PVC case action? :P
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Sounds interesting! Where do we get the case though?
I cut the cases myself so can pretty much send the cases and PCBs in one package which means saving on shipping :)
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Sounds amazing, especially if you can get some caps as well. Count me super in now!
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Can we 'Muricans get in on this 50 PVC case action? :P
Sure just keep in mind shipping to US will not be cheap, you may also need to pay some import duties.
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Can we 'Muricans get in on this 50 PVC case action? :P
Sure just keep in mind shipping to US will not be cheap
Nothing worthwhile ever is. :D
you may also need to pay some import duties.
Luckily, we don't have to pay ridiculous taxes on personal purchases coming from overseas like you Europeans do. I feel bad that you are taxed to death over there.
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I was also looking into making a smalldrop ergodox kit group buy for Europe, for same reasons as yourself : I missed last Massdrop and I don't want to wait several months. Also as you said, shipping to Europe every part of the kit will double the price, so it is not interesting to do it alone. But if we find 10+ people for a group buy in Europe, the 200 or so incoming shipping cost becomes less than 20.
PCB can be bought from your manufacturer, but a group buy from mechanicalkeyboards.com would do it also, shipping cost is reasonable if shared between 10+.
The electronics (diodes, connectors...) is available for 18 from digi-key (+ tax) , free shipping if we reach 65 (4 kits required).
Tensy 2.0 shipping is quite expensive with insurance from the manufacturer (pjrc.com). Here is an estimate :
Air Mail 1-3 weeks $ 14.67 Air mail delivery may be delayed in customs or transit. Unlike UPS, there is nobody who can find your package if it does not arrive on time. Because of the risk, please do not select Air Mail for orders over $200.
UPS Expedited 3-5 days $ 72.82 UPS Exedited Worldwide. UPS will use a broker to clear customs quickly, and this can result in an additional fee due when the package is delivered.
But there is a few local distributors http://forum.pjrc.com/threads/23601-Official-Distributors (http://forum.pjrc.com/threads/23601-Official-Distributors)
The cables are easy to find.
I already got the key switches from http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/cherry-mx-taking-pre-orders-t2760.html (http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/cherry-mx-taking-pre-orders-t2760.html)
Remains the problem of the keycaps...
So I'm definitely in for one pair of PCB (perhaps 2), and I'm ready to help to group the rest of the needed material. Also I'm in France and I volunteer to proxy for France if there is other buyers.
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I was also looking into making a smalldrop ergodox kit group buy for Europe, for same reasons as yourself : I missed last Massdrop and I don't want to wait several months. Also as you said, shipping to Europe every part of the kit will double the price, so it is not interesting to do it alone. But if we find 10+ people for a group buy in Europe, the 200 or so incoming shipping cost becomes less than 20.
PCB can be bought from your manufacturer, but a group buy from mechanicalkeyboards.com would do it also, shipping cost is reasonable if shared between 10+.
The electronics (diodes, connectors...) is available for 18 from digi-key (+ tax) , free shipping if we reach 65 (4 kits required).
Tensy 2.0 shipping is quite expensive with insurance from the manufacturer (pjrc.com). Here is an estimate :
Air Mail 1-3 weeks $ 14.67 Air mail delivery may be delayed in customs or transit. Unlike UPS, there is nobody who can find your package if it does not arrive on time. Because of the risk, please do not select Air Mail for orders over $200.
UPS Expedited 3-5 days $ 72.82 UPS Exedited Worldwide. UPS will use a broker to clear customs quickly, and this can result in an additional fee due when the package is delivered.
But there is a few local distributors http://forum.pjrc.com/threads/23601-Official-Distributors (http://forum.pjrc.com/threads/23601-Official-Distributors)
The cables are easy to find.
I already got the key switches from http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/cherry-mx-taking-pre-orders-t2760.html (http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/cherry-mx-taking-pre-orders-t2760.html)
Remains the problem of the keycaps...
Maybe some of the vendors can offer a ergodox keycap set? :)
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I was also looking into making a smalldrop ergodox kit group buy for Europe, for same reasons as yourself : I missed last Massdrop and I don't want to wait several months. Also as you said, shipping to Europe every part of the kit will double the price, so it is not interesting to do it alone. But if we find 10+ people for a group buy in Europe, the 200 or so incoming shipping cost becomes less than 20.
PCB can be bought from your manufacturer, but a group buy from mechanicalkeyboards.com would do it also, shipping cost is reasonable if shared between 10+.
The electronics (diodes, connectors...) is available for 18 from digi-key (+ tax) , free shipping if we reach 65 (4 kits required).
Tensy 2.0 shipping is quite expensive with insurance from the manufacturer (pjrc.com). Here is an estimate :
Air Mail 1-3 weeks $ 14.67 Air mail delivery may be delayed in customs or transit. Unlike UPS, there is nobody who can find your package if it does not arrive on time. Because of the risk, please do not select Air Mail for orders over $200.
UPS Expedited 3-5 days $ 72.82 UPS Exedited Worldwide. UPS will use a broker to clear customs quickly, and this can result in an additional fee due when the package is delivered.
But there is a few local distributors http://forum.pjrc.com/threads/23601-Official-Distributors (http://forum.pjrc.com/threads/23601-Official-Distributors)
The cables are easy to find.
I already got the key switches from http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/cherry-mx-taking-pre-orders-t2760.html (http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/cherry-mx-taking-pre-orders-t2760.html)
Remains the problem of the keycaps...
Well the electronics are dirt cheap locally, I think I could get them for less that 18 from local stores without paying for shipping.
Teensy indeed is major cost, so are the MX Switches, we could get them from 7 bit from Deskthority. He sells them for 0.65 and I think that's a very good price.
As for keycaps, the first idea that comes to mind is Signature Plastics. I ordered their DSA caps recently, will see how is the quality. They have the mould to do all required caps so it shouldn't be a big deal if we order batches of 20-40 sets to make them for reasonable price. But I want to see their caps first as I don't want to offer crap to others.
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If you guys need Teensys, and if there are orders for 100 pcs of them, I can get them cheaper for you, and also I can mail them cheaper as well, to one proxy in Europe. I can provide you with header pins, you will only have to solder them onto the Teensy yourself.
Edit: Even at 25 pcs, I can get them cheaper than if you order them one at a time.
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I'm likely to be interested in this, no idea if I'll like layout. But always wanted to build one.
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Well the electronics are dirt cheap locally, I think I could get them for less that 18 from local stores without paying for shipping.
Good ! I looked at digi-key because it is what is listed on ergodox.org...
Do you intend to offer to group everything needed for the kit, or would you rather care only about the PCB (and case) ?
EDIT: you already answered that and I missed it...
The goal is to have similar kit as the one on Massdrop for less, available without the silly wait and with option to get the keyboard fully assembled in either PVC or Aluminium case. I can't say anything about pricing yet but I can tell you I won't be making any money on it.
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Well iīm interested though in a full ergodox kit!
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I'm totally interested.
I don't want to mess with your way of organizing this, but I think ordering PCBs in Poland is just too expensive.
I don't know what quantities we're talking about here, but I think at 100 boards (50 sets) we could get high-quality boards in China for about 15 eur incl. vat & shipping.
As for parts, local is a good idea, of course. We have tme, farnell and what not.
Anyway, count me in.
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Can we 'Muricans get in on this 50 PVC case action? :P
Sure just keep in mind shipping to US will not be cheap
Nothing worthwhile ever is. :D
Oh, I would like to ride on this as well, if we're bringing some back across the pond.
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If you want to save some money on the PCBs, you should make them in China. The OSHW community I frequent (dangerousprototypes.com) has given positive feedback about this website:
http://smart-prototyping.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=142
As an example, I asked for 50 pieces (ie. 25 sets) of 20cm x 20cm double sided 1.6mm (that's standard PCB thickness) with black soldermask, and the quote is $264.31, or $10.50 per set, which is significatively cheaper than the $25 you were quoted. Even with shipping you might save a lot.
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Awesome! Where do i sign up?
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This Chinese prototyping seems really cool. Do you know similar companies that do CNC machining in Aluminium / Plastics? Or maybe we could go ahead for the moulded ABS case? I guess with that the initial cost could be high but then the more cases we order, the cheaper it gets.
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Not in euroupe, but good luck with this GB. I might get a case, depending ...
But I'm also trying to get a friend to bug his dad, who works at a local machine shop, to get me quotes for steel ergodox cases (I will create an IC thread if it looks vaguely promising.)
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This Chinese prototyping seems really cool. Do you know similar companies that do CNC machining in Aluminium / Plastics? Or maybe we could go ahead for the moulded ABS case? I guess with that the initial cost could be high but then the more cases we order, the cheaper it gets.
Smart-prototyping does some mechanical prototyping too:
http://smart-prototyping.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=59_61
But I've never used it or even read any feedback, so I wouldn't vouch for that.
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Can we 'Muricans get in on this 50 PVC case action? :P
can I join you on this?
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I am happy to proxy any cases for US members.
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Smart-prototyping does some mechanical prototyping too:
http://smart-prototyping.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=59_61
But I've never used it or even read any feedback, so I wouldn't vouch for that.
They propose anodized finishing, that would be so cool !...
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On a second thought I'm not really sure about those Chinese manufacturers. I know there is many of them but this is pretty much what Massdrop uses and they are a living proof of how reliable those factories are. As for this company in Olsztyn, Poland I can assure you they do quality stuff as my brother used to work for them for a while.
The aluminium cases are tempting though as machining in Europe is very expensive and with my machine it's just not cost effective as I'd have to spend whole day making one set of cases (left + right), or hire someone to do that, but you know what the cost would be, just basically not worth it.
But there is a question about the quality of the machining Chinese factory does. I clearly see what comes out from my mill. If the result is not right I do it again, slower, or improve the toolpaths or do some sanding by hand, until I get the satisfactory result.
I have plans to get another stronger machine to do a metal parts but I won't be able to afford it until about Feb - March next year. Until then I can happily do PVC cases.
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I'm up for supporting this one!
Perhaps Sleabo (Qwerkeys) can help us out with the keycaps.
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Interested in everything but metal case. Will ask friends to get more people in.
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On a second thought I'm not really sure about those Chinese manufacturers. I know there is many of them but this is pretty much what Massdrop uses and they are a living proof of how reliable those factories are. As for this company in Olsztyn, Poland I can assure you they do quality stuff as my brother used to work for them for a while.
The aluminium cases are tempting though as machining in Europe is very expensive and with my machine it's just not cost effective as I'd have to spend whole day making one set of cases (left + right), or hire someone to do that, but you know what the cost would be, just basically not worth it.
But there is a question about the quality of the machining Chinese factory does. I clearly see what comes out from my mill. If the result is not right I do it again, slower, or improve the toolpaths or do some sanding by hand, until I get the satisfactory result.
I have plans to get another stronger machine to do a metal parts but I won't be able to afford it until about Feb - March next year. Until then I can happily do PVC cases.
This is true, but you probably want to have your PCBs made in China. They have proven to be reliable, and affordable! :)
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On a second thought I'm not really sure about those Chinese manufacturers. I know there is many of them but this is pretty much what Massdrop uses and they are a living proof of how reliable those factories are. As for this company in Olsztyn, Poland I can assure you they do quality stuff as my brother used to work for them for a while.
The aluminium cases are tempting though as machining in Europe is very expensive and with my machine it's just not cost effective as I'd have to spend whole day making one set of cases (left + right), or hire someone to do that, but you know what the cost would be, just basically not worth it.
But there is a question about the quality of the machining Chinese factory does. I clearly see what comes out from my mill. If the result is not right I do it again, slower, or improve the toolpaths or do some sanding by hand, until I get the satisfactory result.
I have plans to get another stronger machine to do a metal parts but I won't be able to afford it until about Feb - March next year. Until then I can happily do PVC cases.
This is true, but you probably want to have your PCBs made in China. They have proven to be reliable, and affordable! :)
They took our job!
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I'm good with either, if you say those Chinese are good and reliable I'm always up for saving some buck.
Does any of you have some experience organising group buys? How do I set it up in google docs so everyone interested can submit?
Would be great to get 50+ people on this one, the more the merrier (and cheaper to ship from the Middle Kingdom) :)
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Using google forms sucks:/
But I remember a discussion on GH about some groupbuy software someone was writing. Maybe you can use it already...
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Etherpad? I've used it for organizing some events, and it wasn't bad.
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Guys, I'm going to order those locally as I don't have experience working with Chinese factories, I don't know their minimum order quantities and I have no idea how long will I have to wait for the order to be delivered. Here I can go and talk to the guys any time I want. I pick up the PCBs directly from their office and if anything is wrong I can just refuse to pay them (payment is pretty much cash on collection).
For this order the price will be 25 each and the first batch (40 pieces) should be ready in 4 weeks. I will be offering them in classifieds on this forum and Deskthority. When the first batch sells, I'll order another one and so on. Price may be lower for the next orders although I can't promise that. It all depends on the factory guys.
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Guys, I'm going to order those locally as I don't have experience working with Chinese factories, I don't know their minimum order quantities and I have no idea how long will I have to wait for the order to be delivered. Here I can go and talk to the guys any time I want. I pick up the PCBs directly from their office and if anything is wrong I can just refuse to pay them (payment is pretty much cash on collection).
For this order the price will be 25 each and the first batch (40 pieces) should be ready in 4 weeks. I will be offering them in classifieds on this forum and Deskthority. When the first batch sells, I'll order another one and so on. Price may be lower for the next orders although I can't promise that. It all depends on the factory guys.
Ok so this GB is no longer for the case?
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This is for the PCB, I'll be making cases myself, and you will have an option to add a case to the order for PCB. I'm not making cases yet (apart from prototypes) as I'm not sure how it fits the whole kit and I don't want to sell them to anyone to find out it just doesn't work...
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What about the teensy?
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in for a set ( PCB+case)
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A possible source for key caps : http://deskthority.net/wiki/Round_5#HONEY.2FERGO_.28ErgoDox_kit_.7C_.2459.29 (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Round_5#HONEY.2FERGO_.28ErgoDox_kit_.7C_.2459.29). Deadline for command : 2013-11-30
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Also this: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49634.0
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I'm getting my caps from the Calm Depths series ... but that's GB is in production so no getting in now.
I'd like to update folks stateside about my claim to get stainless steel cases ... the contact I have says they can't make heads or tails of the .dxf files* ... result is they could recreate it from scratch for me, at something like $100/hr to the CAD engineer.
So, that's out. I'm going to look around a bit in other places but I think it's not happening :cry:
*well, no they can see the nifty lines going everywhere. There's just no units so no possible way to program their machines to cut it without starting over with a program their machines like.
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AKmalamute if you know someone with appropriate machines and can afford it why not use my unibody or 2 piece design to cut it out of stainless steel?
They're already drawn in CAD/CAM package (CamBam) and all you need to do for steel is change the paths slightly (change feed and plunge rates) and maybe do some adjustments for the machines that will be used.
And as for PCBs, I have already paid for the order and now I'm just waiting for the package to arrive. It should be here in 4 weeks or so.
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AKmalamute if you know someone with appropriate machines and can afford it why not use my unibody or 2 piece design to cut it out of stainless steel?
They're already drawn in CAD/CAM package (CamBam) and all you need to do for steel is change the paths slightly (change feed and plunge rates) and maybe do some adjustments for the machines that will be used.
And as for PCBs, I have already paid for the order and now I'm just waiting for the package to arrive. It should be here in 4 weeks or so.
Great! I'll be in for one set.
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Why is it written [In Production] ? My understanding was that the list of possible component and manufacturer was not even ready yet, and that the orders/payments haven't really started (this thread being to check how many people are interested)... Did I missed something ?
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Why is it written [In Production] ? My understanding was that the list of possible component and manufacturer was not even ready yet, and that the orders/payments haven't really started (this thread being to check how many people are interested)... Did I missed something ?
Guys, I'm going to order those locally as I don't have experience working with Chinese factories, I don't know their minimum order quantities and I have no idea how long will I have to wait for the order to be delivered. Here I can go and talk to the guys any time I want. I pick up the PCBs directly from their office and if anything is wrong I can just refuse to pay them (payment is pretty much cash on collection).
For this order the price will be 25 each and the first batch (40 pieces) should be ready in 4 weeks. I will be offering them in classifieds on this forum and Deskthority. When the first batch sells, I'll order another one and so on. Price may be lower for the next orders although I can't promise that. It all depends on the factory guys.
Right here!
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Ah ok, I must learn to read... :-[
czarek: Do you consider answers in this thread as preorder ? I would hate to miss the first batch when you open real orders...
Also what is the situation for the rest of the components ? Are you going to propose the cases and the other components at the same time as the first PCBs batch ?
Anyway thanks for doing it...
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I'm going to offer those PCBs in classifieds but people that have put interest in this thread will have priority in case of bigger demand. I have done nothing about teensy yet, but the cases and other electronics will be ready to order with the PCBs. I am not cutting cases yet as I need to see them fit the rest of the keyboard. I have few protoypes that i will be offering at discounted price, although no warranty of fit and quality - means you may need to tweak them with dremel ;)
Also when the stock of PCBs will run low I'll order another batch.
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I'm getting my caps from the Calm Depths series ... but that's GB is in production so no getting in now.
I'd like to update folks stateside about my claim to get stainless steel cases ... the contact I have says they can't make heads or tails of the .dxf files* ... result is they could recreate it from scratch for me, at something like $100/hr to the CAD engineer.
So, that's out. I'm going to look around a bit in other places but I think it's not happening :cry:
*well, no they can see the nifty lines going everywhere. There's just no units so no possible way to program their machines to cut it without starting over with a program their machines like.
Regarding the Calm Depths GB, there will be a couple extra ErgoDox keycap sets going up in the classifieds when production is complete. This is part of a larger Charity auction (in which all proceeds will go to GH) but aside from that, I have purchased an additional 7 ErgoDox sets that I plan to sell at retail after everyone's gotten their orders. This is an investment on my part, to make my wife less angry about my spending a significant amount of time and money on getting this GB through to the end.
That being said, there will be a total of 8 Calm Depths Ergodox keycap sets going to the classifieds in december/january.
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Also I forgot to mention that the PCBs will be black with white labels :)
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ErgoDox PCB in Europe? Yes, please!
If I don't have to get them made on my own takes some time to read more in the forum :) -- still so much stuff to read for a newbie!
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Yes we will be offering fully assembled Ergodoxes. Plug and play :)
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Fully assembled ErgoDox in Europe, shipped from within the EU, without all the delays and annoyances of the massdrop GB? You really got my attention xD
Where can I give you money? Do you want to marry me? :p
Honestly though, as soon as you have them ready, I'd be in for 1-3
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Fully assembled ErgoDox in Europe, shipped from within the EU, without all the delays and annoyances of the massdrop GB? You really got my attention xD
Where can I give you money? Do you want to marry me? :p
Honestly though, as soon as you have them ready, I'd be in for 1-3
That's the plan. Although I'm still organising supply chain for all the parts. I have no idea where to get keycaps from as I'm not fully satisfied with signature plastics DSA PBT keycaps, they're OK but nothing mind blowing.
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You could order SA-profile thick spherical keycaps from Round 5 on Deskthority.
HONEY/ERGO is currently $59, with blank alphas. Or you could order HONEY/ERGOBASE ($29) or HONEY/ERGOBASE/RED ($29) with HONEY/ALPHA ($39) or HONEY/ALPHA/RED ($37).
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Round_5#HONEY.2FERGO_.28ErgoDox_kit_.7C_.2459.29
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You could order SA-profile thick spherical keycaps from Round 5 on Deskthority.
HONEY/ERGO is currently $59, with blank alphas. Or you could order HONEY/ERGOBASE ($29) or HONEY/ERGOBASE/RED ($29) with HONEY/ALPHA ($39) or HONEY/ALPHA/RED ($37).
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Round_5#HONEY.2FERGO_.28ErgoDox_kit_.7C_.2459.29
I did that :) but you know they're not cheap and I don't want to order a batch of lets say 100 sets not knowing they're good. But I could always sell fully assembled keyboards without keycaps, then people could either use whatever they have or get some nice sets from those group buys.
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+1 for the "without key caps" option!
I think a lot of people would change the caps anyway. So, having an opt-in (or opt-out, depending on view :) ) for the caps would be appreciated.
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Hey czarek,
I wish you had started this earlier! ;)
I'm quite interested in the case though and got a question:
does your version of the case support putting the teensy controller in the left side of the keyboard?
Might also be interested in one set of PCBs, can't say for sure at the moment though.
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Hey czarek,
I wish you had started this earlier! ;)
I'm quite interested in the case though and got a question:
does your version of the case support putting the teensy controller in the left side of the keyboard?
Might also be interested in one set of PCBs, can't say for sure at the moment though.
Hard to say, I haven't seen whole electronics fit in this case yet. As for left case I simply mirrored right case so it should fit just fine.
I may need to tweak the case once I get the electronics, but the left side will always be just a mirror of the right side.
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Okay, sounds good, might work. Please keep us updated! :)
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I will. So far I'm waiting for PCBs production to finish, then I pick them up and try to fit whole keyboard. Once that's done I'll take orders for PCBs and cases :)
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Perfect!
I'll be waiting. :)
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Sounds lovely, I'm up for a kit.
I would also be wiling to do a group buy for blank DSA keycaps (http://www.keycapsdirect.com/pdfs/DSAFamily.pdf) from Signature Plastics, which I propose would be, per set (suggestions welcome):
| Key | Colour | Quantity |
| 1.0 | TBN | 52 |
| 1.0 deep dish | TBN | 2 |
| 1.0 | RBC | 14 |
| 1.5 | RBC | 12 |
| 2.0 vertical | RBC | 4 |
If enough people are interested look at having legends on the keys; or perhaps just sell a couple of modifiers with legends if folks are interested in that. If there is interest I'll get a quote from Signature Plastics for 20 or so sets, and update on prices. (I'm thinking the above should probably amount to about EUR 40 + shipping or less per set, but no promises.)
Alternatively, if anyone knows of a keycap manufacturer within Europe that does orders to individuals, I would be willing to use them instead to reduce shipping fees and possible customs complications.
Edit: Looks like you're intending to eventually sell an entire kit yourself, not just the PCBs, my apology for intruding!
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Yes that's what I'm going to do actually - until I find a good supplier for keycaps, I will be recommending people to use Signature Plastics keycaps. They're not bad although not the quality I'd like to use on my keyboard or the keyboards I would make and sell to people.
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Massdrop group buy has open (order open in the next 9 days)...
Can you give us an update about your proposal ? I'm glad for what you are doing, but I really want to get an Ergodox kit as soon as possible, so I won't miss the Massdrop group buy unless I can be confident I can get a full kit from you in a comparable time frame.
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I also would take 1x2 pcb.
If more people in germany want one I can forward to minimize deliverycosts
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This is very interesting, I might be in for one complete kit. I'd much rather join this GB than go with Massdrop, it seems more logical to source as much as we can in Europe to keep shipping prices low.
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This is very interesting, I might be in for one complete kit. I'd much rather join this GB than go with Massdrop, it seems more logical to source as much as we can in Europe to keep shipping prices low.
^ that!
I was briefly considering to go with massdrop. But I was thinking the same. Also: i don't fancy the clear acryl cases (dont know if there are other options available on massdrop).
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Well there is not that much of an update. PCBs are ordered, first batch will take a bit longer (about 4 weeks in total so still 2 weeks wait), next batches will come quicker.
I also have set of materials (PVC plates, screws and a lot of end bits for the CNC mill) ready to cut the cases.
The only thing I'm still organising is electronics (everything apart from teensy and MX switches) which I will also offer with my kits.
Later I'll also add MX switches and teensy but please understand this is a side project and totally non profit (with arguable "profit" on cases which I explained already) so I don't want to invest too much money in it. It's already quite an investment as I spent 2300 PLN (which is 548 on PCBs, this means I'm actually paying more for them then I'll be selling them for!) for PCBs and even more (don't remember exactly as I don't have invoice for those) for PVC plates so please understand :)
Of course anyone could set up company, invest money in whole supply and distribution chain but this would need to generate profits and for us that would mean higher prices, so not cool :)
I'm attaching invoice from the PCB company so you can see I'm not making this up.
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Thanks for the update. I understand it is non profit and side-project, and I completely understand the investment it represent to create even a small stock for the different parts.
I think I will get one kit through Massdrop, so I will be able to assemble and use it right away when I get it. I'm still committed to get one of your PCBs, that I will use to make a second ergodox with deskthority round5 honeywell keycaps and the mx switches I ordered from 7bit... I still need to find a source for tensy... But I won't be too much in a hurry to get it. Later, I might sell one of the two ergodox if I don't use both...
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In case you might reconsider having a tensy option, there is an official distributor in Poland: http://nettigo.pl/products/503 (http://nettigo.pl/products/503)
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Ooo that's cool kzhk! As long as people are ok paying 17 for teensy I'm ok with adding an option for it :)
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It sounds really nice that this is going to be a real alternative for massdrop!
Even cheaper I think...
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Quick estimate price calculation :
2 PCBs : 25
Case : 50
Electronics : ~20
Tensy : 17
mx switch 55 (78x0.65 + 4 through deskthority mx group buy)
trrs cable : <5
2 micro usb cables ~10
keycaps: ~50 (one possibility in the next 8 days is massdrop group buy : https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox-keycap (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox-keycap))
total: 237 + Europe shipping
Massdrop with keycaps + shipping : 269$ = 200 + import tax (that would be 20% in France if I understand correctly) 40 = 240
So, yes it is almost the same price, maybe even less but we will have to wait for czarek complete price list...
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Remember the case is much better. I can laser cut the acrylic plates like Massdrop and it could be even cheaper, but I totally don't like this case, looks cheap and very DIY.
As for electronics I think it will be closer to 10 (including cables) than 20, although I haven't found a place to get it all (apart from DigiKey of course).
So yes about the same price as Massdrop, but with nicer case and without the ridiculous 2 months wait.
I don't remember how much Massdrop charged for soldering / assembly. I talked to my brother's boss and he said his company can do the soldering and assembly for 25 - they're real PROs, making stuff for some big name companies. If there won't be too much interest in assembly, I will be doing it myself with my brother only.
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Don't quote me on it, but I think Massdrop assembly was $30-$35
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Then I'll have to negotiate slightly lower price for assembly :)
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Then I'll have to negotiate slightly lower price for assembly :)
I was wrong, it seems to have been $45
(http://puu.sh/5q3Cv.jpg)
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25 for assembly sounds good, imho.
Even though I would want to assemble it myself if I get the choice... I know how to handle a solder iron and I want it to be part of the ergodox experience :)
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Also Massdrop said they currently have a problem with the assembly service raising their price. This is why they are not offering assembly service in the current drop until it is resolved.
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Oh, I would like to sign up for a pair of PCBs! Need to build a third Ergodox :)
Edit:
If you will also provide teensies, do tell. Ran out :)
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am 100% in btw
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I'll do teensies too, although the price will be higher than the producer's shop. I can only get them for 17 if you're interested.
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A little update with a great news. Our PCBs are ready! They have been tested today and are going to be shipped to me tomorrow so I will be getting them on Monday. This means next week I'm going to make a final version of the case and start shipping them out :)
Happy?
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Holy crap that was fast. Hope they turn out ok !
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Happy!
How do I place an order? Take my money!
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Hope I'm still on time to lay my hands on one pair of PCBs.
Is it still possible?
Would it help if y say PLEEEEAAAASE ;)
I'd be in for a Teensy too.
By the way big thanks for all your work!!
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I'll do teensies too, although the price will be higher than the producer's shop. I can only get them for 17 if you're interested.
I think its the same once you count in the producers shipping .
Yea, I'm totally in for one teensy and a pair of PCBs. ;)
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I have a question for you guys... Where to get proper TRRS sockets? Digikey doesn't have it and all Polish wholesalers stock sockets with different pin layout. That's not end of the world and I can design and order pin adapters or modify PCB to fit different layout(s) but the ones that are already done are up to original design...
As for the rest of the electronics I found them all and it turns out to be 15 for the whole set (without TRRS) with cables.
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I just bought metal connectors for not too bad a price from Newark Electronics ... I'll edit this with a link in a minute.
Edit: http://www.newark.com that was hard. :rolleyes:
They're a US based company, at least halfway. They have some products that are in the UK ... and for me, it'd be an extra $20/order to ship them to the US to ship them to me. I assume in your case if they only have it here, there'd be a 1x/order charge of 15EUR or whatever to ship it back to their center over there.
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I would like to get a PCB + Teensy + electronics, if it's still possible to get in. (Keep us up to date on the aluminium case :D)
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I have a question for you guys... Where to get proper TRRS sockets? Digikey doesn't have it and all Polish wholesalers stock sockets with different pin layout. That's not end of the world and I can design and order pin adapters or modify PCB to fit different layout(s) but the ones that are already done are up to original design...
As for the rest of the electronics I found them all and it turns out to be 15 for the whole set (without TRRS) with cables.
just be sure... you already looked around the internet at rs-components, reichelt and others?
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I checked up Polish wholesalers, digikey and conrad electronics so far. I've found everything (including teensy) in Poland, just can't find TRRS socket with a proper pinout.
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In Spain I might use mouser:
es.mouser.com (http://es.mouser.com/Connectors/Audio-Video-Connectors/_/N-778ct?Keyword=jack&FS=True)
Actually I checked and they also sell in Poland:
pl.mouser.com (http://pl.mouser.com/Connectors/Audio-Video-Connectors/_/N-778ct?Keyword=jack&FS=True)
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Ofc I find this just after I order one from MD. I see the price estimate isn't much cheaper so no big regrets =). Still going to follow this project and how it turns out.
Might as well throw this Q in here: I see stl, step and dxf files on ergodox.org. I want to take the switch mounting plate part and modify it for a project. What software should I use? 2D is enough for now and I have some Autocad beginner knowledge.
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Ok here they are:
[attachimg=1]
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Ok here they are:
(Attachment Link)
yaay!
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They look great, I'm going to make a better pics after work.
Unfortunately though my cases need a redesign... Nothing fits unfortunately. I will be doing new designs and prototypes over this week.
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I have a question for you guys... Where to get proper TRRS sockets? Digikey doesn't have it and all Polish wholesalers stock sockets with different pin layout. That's not end of the world and I can design and order pin adapters or modify PCB to fit different layout(s) but the ones that are already done are up to original design...
As for the rest of the electronics I found them all and it turns out to be 15 for the whole set (without TRRS) with cables.
I got mine from digikey. Here is the link:
http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?WT.z_header=search_go&lang=en&site=us&keywords=CP-43514-ND&x=16&y=15&formaction=on
Not on the cheap end :(
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It's not feasible for me to get them from there if I only order 20 pieces or so. Shipping is 60 dollars and I will most likely have to pay import duties, I'll rather buy them for twice that price somewhere in Europe.
I currently found similar connector in Poland. It has the same pin layout but different signals. This is easy to overcome with crossed over wires connecting two sides of the keyboard, but would make keyboards assembled by us incompatible with standard cables. Still we would of course share the guides how to make or modify cables for them to work.
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Ok here they are:
(Attachment Link)
looks good with black color :)
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Indeed, they look fabulous.
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It's not feasible for me to get them from there if I only order 20 pieces or so. Shipping is 60 dollars and I will most likely have to pay import duties, I'll rather buy them for twice that price somewhere in Europe.
I currently found similar connector in Poland. It has the same pin layout but different signals. This is easy to overcome with crossed over wires connecting two sides of the keyboard, but would make keyboards assembled by us incompatible with standard cables. Still we would of course share the guides how to make or modify cables for them to work.
Does it matter if the signals are different? As long as both keyboard halves use the same TRRS socket it should be fine?
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Well I have received them, and although they don't match perfectly, we managed to get them onto the boards without any modifications to the PCB. All signals go through and the only thing that will have to be different is the TRRS cable. I'm still waiting for the expanders (MCP23018) to build the final working prototype. Once the prototype is ready and working I'll be offering sets of electronics with the PCBs. They will have those connectors soldered onto the PCBs (as they're not straight forward to install) and custom TRRS cables.
I have a question for you though. Will the keyboard work with only one part (right one with teensy) and without the other one connected (the one I have incomplete due to missing I/O expander)?
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Depends on which firmware you use, but as far as I remember T.M.K. and the massdrop configuration both work with just one side.
I think they also both support hot plugging. At least T.M.K. does (just tested it).
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Does the Teensy on thise site http://nettigo.pl/products/503 come with pins?
And have any of you guys been able to find the TRRS connector on a European site, or at least where the shipping is cheap?
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Does the Teensy on thise site http://nettigo.pl/products/503 come with pins?
Nope.
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Nothing to worry about though. I include pins in the package. Also if you want I can pre-solder them.
TRRS connector is a *****. I found the one that almost fits. It needs one pin and 2 pegs removed, then it's ok. I'm doing the modifications to all the sets of PCB + electronics I ship and pre-solder the connectors on the PCBs to make sure it all works and people don't have to mess with the mods.
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Due to how rare the TRRS connector is I have sometimes wondered about changing the design to allow using RJ11 since the cables, plugs and sockets are easily available anywhere, the downside would be that since they lock in place if you yank on one half you could break something instead of the cord yanking out.
Unfortunately I'm not aware of any plug that would fit the existing footprint of the 4 pin minijack.
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Hi czarek! Do you perhaps have any updates (despite the holiday season)?
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I wasn't doing anything over Christmas as I really wanted to spend it with family and friends rather than in a workshop.
Just before the holiday though I started working on a new design for the case which is no longer based on Lister's layered case but it's designed from scratch only by looking at the technical drawings of the PCB (Gerber files from ergodox.org).
By default the case won't have the plate and will be slightly cheaper to make (left + right without the plate should cost you 40 which I personally think is a steal) but it will be able to accommodate either aluminium or steel plate if you need one. I will be making polished aluminium plates for 20 a set (10 each) later on. Also once this design is ready (fully tested and optimised) I will start looking for a 3rd party to cut it out of aluminium. If the time allows I will cut another prototype today and this time I'll make photos. You will see for yourself this design is super hot :D
And the one more thing. I was looking for a black PVC in wholesalers but they don't have it. I found a black plexiglass though which looks super sexy (shiny piano black finish) but it's rather expensive at about 60 for square meter (8mm thick) and they only sell whole plates which are 6 square meters so 360 just to get started... Not sure if I want to invest my time and money into this thing, I think going straight into aluminium and having 2 options (budget white PVC and luxury anodised aluminium) will be better.
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I'm in Australia but looking for any way to get an Ergodox, how much would postage be to get it all here?
I would like to get everything for a whole kit if possible - case, keycaps, switches, Teensy, electronics - the whole kit and kaboodle. I don't want to wait for another MassDrop groupbuy. I can't wait much longer to get an Ergodox!! :'(
Do you have any idea how long it'll be before you start the GB?
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Hey, a slight bump :) Any ETA for PCBs?
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I would need to buy 2 PCB's of ergodox, where I can buy them ? (yeah, for make 2 keyboards)
Thank you
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Head over to Deskthority. (http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/ergodox-pcbs-cases-electronics-and-assembly-services-t6972.html)