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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Ch0nG on Sun, 27 October 2013, 22:08:04
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Does anyone have any tips/suggestions on what to say to my IT department when I ask about bringing/buying a mechanical keyboard for work? The issue at hand is that I work with sensitive personal information on a daily basis, so I can see them freaking out about a "outside" keyboard. I'm tired of typing on the trash Lenovo boards they provide but I don't know how to approach them in regards to bringing/getting a mechanical board.
Here's the story:
I finally took my keyboard (in sig) to work last week, I would have taken it sooner but until last week the board had a busted USB cable. Anyway, I've worked there for about 4 months but started in a new department two weeks ago. I used my DasKeyboard for almost the whole day on Friday, my boss even commented "That's cool, your keyboard doesn't have any keys(!?). It looks really nice!". Strangely she freaked out about 65% of the way through the day and made me switch back to the trash Lenovo board that everyone uses. Needless to say, my fingers were not happy. :'(
After she freaked out (and I was a bit perplexed) she said "If it's a health issue we can provide you with an ergonomic keyboard". From what I've seen around the office it's one of the "Natural" split-design Microsoft boards. (Puke!) Considering I type all day I'm hoping to find a way to convince the IT department to let me use a ErgoDox (once the MassDrop is back on). Barring that, does anyone have a board or two I could suggest to them? (Assuming I can't bring my keyboard or a ErgoDox.) I like the tactility of Blues but honestly I haven't tried anything else.
P.S. I was going to post this here (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43063.165) but didn't want to bump a 5 month-old thread.
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Have them buy you a mechanical keyboard.
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Have them buy you a mechanical keyboard.
What he said. It's not like you are using a wireless keyboard.
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Maybe try to find out what they are objecting to. Maybe they think you have a USB memory stick hidden inside the computer to steal company secrets.
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Have them buy you a mechanical keyboard.
Maybe try to find out what they are objecting to. Maybe they think you have a USB memory stick hidden inside the computer to steal company secrets.
Hopefully I can talk with them about it on Monday or Tuesday. I'm guessing that anything with a built-in USB hub is out of the question for the "hidden hub" reason. I'll look around tonight for boards to suggest and report back once I get a chance to speak with them. Hopefully they'll be cool with at least buying a mechanical board (even if I pay for it).
Since I have no intention of being nefarious I didn't even think about a hidden USB/keylogger scenario. However, now that you mention it I can definitely see that being a concern.
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if your boss is willing to consider the ergonomic angle, and buy you a $100 keyboard ... tell them that yes, it's an issue but no, that particular hundred dollars won't be the best bet, .... BUT for the same hit to the budget could they get you a QFR or keycool or something?
Ask her where they normally source the M$ keyboards. Maybe that vendor has the QFRs, and if IT can be convinced it's okay, then you'll have a halfway decent keyboard ... although I don't envy the in-fighting once you leave, for who gets to use the company special keyboard afterwords.
Actually, that's an angle too. Maybe this came up before with another worker, and they've got a forgotten SSK that everyone hates sitting in a closet. That happens, too.
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if your boss is willing to consider the ergonomic angle, and buy you a $100 keyboard ... tell them that yes, it's an issue but no, that particular hundred dollars won't be the best bet, .... BUT for the same hit to the budget could they get you a QFR or keycool or something?
Ask her where they normally source the M$ keyboards. Maybe that vendor has the QFRs, and if IT can be convinced it's okay, then you'll have a halfway decent keyboard ... although I don't envy the in-fighting once you leave, for who gets to use the company special keyboard afterwords.
Actually, that's an angle too. Maybe this came up before with another worker, and they've got a forgotten SSK that everyone hates sitting in a closet. That happens, too.
That would be a great place to work where your boss will buy for you a keyboard
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That would be a great place to work where your boss will buy for you a keyboard
It's why I have a HHKB-lite2. Someone else threatened to sue if they didn't get their $600 kbd, my boss moaned a bit about buying it, I said hey can I get this measly $100 kbd and she rolled her eyes and said to submit some paperwork and six months later ... bam 60%, all mine (because no one else would ever want it but still)
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It will probably be easier to get and ergonomic keyboard (if you get a doctors note).
Company's are afraid of lawsuits or paid sick days off...
Your best bet/excuse would be something like a Kinesis Advantage.
See if a carpal tunnel syndrome doctor will "prescribe" the keyboard you like.
Afterwards, of course, you will need to change it and see if the others are better for you...
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Work w/ your IT staff..discuss it with them...Explain to them that it isn't the ergonomic design but the key switches that make your fingers start to hurt (No need to be too specific). Offer to bring in your keyboard/keyboards so they can take a look. Work with them to show they're safe, they may even decide it is a good idea for them to buy a keyboard for you...heck, you might convert them to want a mech board for themselves...
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Was it the noise? Blues are quite noisy even with the o-rings.
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if your boss is willing to consider the ergonomic angle, and buy you a $100 keyboard ... tell them that yes, it's an issue but no, that particular hundred dollars won't be the best bet, .... BUT for the same hit to the budget could they get you a QFR or keycool or something?
Ask her where they normally source the M$ keyboards. Maybe that vendor has the QFRs, and if IT can be convinced it's okay, then you'll have a halfway decent keyboard ... although I don't envy the in-fighting once you leave, for who gets to use the company special keyboard afterwords.
Actually, that's an angle too. Maybe this came up before with another worker, and they've got a forgotten SSK that everyone hates sitting in a closet. That happens, too.
That would be a great place to work where your boss will buy for you a keyboard
My boss bought me my second Ducky :)
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if your boss is willing to consider the ergonomic angle, and buy you a $100 keyboard ... tell them that yes, it's an issue but no, that particular hundred dollars won't be the best bet, .... BUT for the same hit to the budget could they get you a QFR or keycool or something?
Ask her where they normally source the M$ keyboards. Maybe that vendor has the QFRs, and if IT can be convinced it's okay, then you'll have a halfway decent keyboard ... although I don't envy the in-fighting once you leave, for who gets to use the company special keyboard afterwords.
Actually, that's an angle too. Maybe this came up before with another worker, and they've got a forgotten SSK that everyone hates sitting in a closet. That happens, too.
That would be a great place to work where your boss will buy for you a keyboard
My boss bought me my second Ducky :)
Really???
Gosh, are you boss hiring???
:D
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The problem is, most of the time health is only thought of with the curved keyboards. Sometimes more needs to be thought of. I know for me, with a RD keyboard, I tend to have arm pain in my bad arm quickly, and I have to type one handed more frequently (when my arm is hurting too much). Well, a split keyboard makes it more difficult to type one handed, and stiffer springs help prevent me from bottoming out (hard to release at activation point)
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Would the best bet not just be the "Stops be sue'ing you" and give evidence such as the woman who just sued the MOD for £400,000 after getting RSI?
The keyboard would stop that.
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Just suggest a kinesis advantage or a maltron 3d, the price will put them off paying for it...
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Simple argument:
If you really wanted to steal data, it's not preventing you from using your own keyboard that would stop you. There are so many other ways (and plugging something between the keyboard and the computer is just one of them).
Ok very reassuring, but that keyboard thing is plain stoopid. It's like saying that they put a lock on the top right window on the building so that you would not use that specific window when trying to get into the building...
So, mention that you are starting to have RSI symptoms and that you are used to you mechanical keys at home and that anything else hurts your fingers and wrists.
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Show your boss that there is no possible way you're stealing data via your keyboard by offering to assemble it in front of them. Bring the PCB, case, plate, switches, soldering equipment, etc. into work, set it up at your desk, and start soldering.
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Simple argument:
If you really wanted to steal data, it's not preventing you from using your own keyboard that would stop you. There are so many other ways (and plugging something between the keyboard and the computer is just one of them).
Ok very reassuring, but that keyboard thing is plain stoopid. It's like saying that they put a lock on the top right window on the building so that you would not use that specific window when trying to get into the building...
So, mention that you are starting to have RSI symptoms and that you are used to you mechanical keys at home and that anything else hurts your fingers and wrists.
It is stupid, but there are a few industry standards for information security that go very indepth with their audits, and try to lock down pretty much everything. Limiting the equipment used is just one thing of MANY.
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Show your boss that there is no possible way you're stealing data via your keyboard by offering to assemble it in front of them. Bring the PCB, case, plate, switches, soldering equipment, etc. into work, set it up at your desk, and start soldering.
Good idea, but I don't think it'll fly, it's would be really easy to program a keylogger (or other) for teensy and load it onto the ergodox.
I don't think the ergodox will work here at all. a kinesis might though.
I recommend bringing a KB to the IT people to have then look at and clear before use. Make sure there's nothing suspicious on it (so don't take it apart beforehand or something.)
I AM the IT at my company, so I get to use whatever keyboards I want, but before then, I was on good terms with the IT people and they said I could use whatever keyboard I brought in, provided I showed it to them first. I used some cherrys, WASD, model M, etc. My co-workers were okay with the model M.
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as an IT guy, I dont give a **** what keyboard you use. My suggestion is to reach out to whatever IT guys is most likely down with the world of Mech boards and talk to him.
Reality reveals that smartphones are by far a greater security risk than any keyboard someone might bring into the office. Unless you work for a Classified/Top Secret Gov. lab (which i worked at for 5+ years) you should be fine bringing in a keyboard into the office.
just keep the noise down to a minimum.
Its easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. Seriously.
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Reality reveals that smartphones are by far a greater security risk than any keyboard someone might bring into the office. Unless you work for a Classified/Top Secret Gov. lab (which i worked at for 5+ years) you should be fine bringing in a keyboard into the office.
And flash drives. Those are much more dangerous than a keyboard.
But with a similar mentality, I could bring my bugged kb to work and it's equally as dangerous as a flashdrive.
I think that many businesses have an inflated idea as to the necessary secrecy of their data. Working with ITAR-regulated departments gives you a somewhat different outlook on these things. Still, at my business, we try to implement good security practices all 'round.
Its easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. Seriously.
I have ethical issues with this philosophy, but will admit that it is efficacious. If your ethical system is different than mine, this may be a good solution.
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if your boss is willing to consider the ergonomic angle, and buy you a $100 keyboard ... tell them that yes, it's an issue but no, that particular hundred dollars won't be the best bet, .... BUT for the same hit to the budget could they get you a QFR or keycool or something?
Ask her where they normally source the M$ keyboards. Maybe that vendor has the QFRs, and if IT can be convinced it's okay, then you'll have a halfway decent keyboard ... although I don't envy the in-fighting once you leave, for who gets to use the company special keyboard afterwords.
Actually, that's an angle too. Maybe this came up before with another worker, and they've got a forgotten SSK that everyone hates sitting in a closet. That happens, too.
That would be a great place to work where your boss will buy for you a keyboard
My boss bought me my second Ducky :)
Really???
Gosh, are you boss hiring???
:D
Yes, really.
It's kinda a long story, and it was an exception to the rule for several reasons.
And no, not hiring. And no-one else has received one either.
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Sorry for the wall of text, my fingers feel so happy to be "home" on my mechanical. ;D
I asked today about a different keyboard again (not my board but a different one in general), she just said that I'd need a doctor's note and that I'd need to take it to IT. If I can get to work early sometime this week I'm going to just have a chat with IT about a different board. I might even offer to show them my board if they seem up to it.
If needs be I'm pretty sure I can find a doctor to "prescribe" me a QFR or something similar. The QFR seems like a good bet and the brown switches wouldn't annoy those around me (less noise!). Since it's a pretty basic TKL board aside from the removable USB hopefully they'll be OK with it.
Work w/ your IT staff..discuss it with them...Explain to them that it isn't the ergonomic design but the key switches that make your fingers start to hurt (No need to be too specific). Offer to bring in your keyboard/keyboards so they can take a look.
That sounds like a good idea. Maybe I'll mention that to them and offer to bring my board in for them to see and, more importantly, play with it. Even if they don't let me use my board it may be enough to allow a stays-at-work mechanical board.
Was it the noise? Blues are quite noisy even with the o-rings.
It could have been, she never said anything other than that for "security reasons" I couldn't use it. Honestly I think it was a couple of things:
- While I don't find Blues noisy in an office full of people on the phone (and mashing on rubber domes), I'm admittedly biased. The click is rather sharp, especially if you are not used to it.
- My keyboard has blank keycaps, is removable USB (from the front of the board, so it's pretty apparent) and I use a fairly-bright yellow ("Explode" paracord) USB cable. All that together might seem suspicious/scary to someone who's probably never seen or heard a mechanical keyboard. (Note: I'm not attempting to be degrading.)
So, mention that you are starting to have RSI symptoms and that you are used to you mechanical keys at home and that anything else hurts your fingers and wrists.
I'm really thinking of going that route, mainly because it seems likely to have a positive outcome.
as an IT guy, I dont give a **** what keyboard you use. My suggestion is to reach out to whatever IT guys is most likely down with the world of Mech boards and talk to him.
Reality reveals that smartphones are by far a greater security risk than any keyboard someone might bring into the office. Unless you work for a Classified/Top Secret Gov. lab (which i worked at for 5+ years) you should be fine bringing in a keyboard into the office.
just keep the noise down to a minimum.
Its easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. Seriously.
I agree with pretty much all of this.
They're already recording the computers (in fact, the computers are practically dummy terminals with everything stored on external servers) so I'm pretty sure they record every input as well. If I already had an ErgoDox (round 5, please come soon!) I would just leave my DasKeyboard at work (maybe in a drawer so someone doesn't mess with it) so I'm not carting it to work everyday. That could alleviate some security concerns and it's a bit of a pain to pack a full-size board around, anyway.
Anyway, I'll keep the forum updated as to what happens with this.
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Wait, where the **** is the MassDrop back on?!
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I'd ask them to get you a mechanical board, an off-the-shelf unit that isn't programmable (since programmable ones have the potential to store data and / or code). Something like a CoolerMaster QuickFire, or other affordable mechanical.
If they refuse THEN ask if you can bring in your own off-the-shelf keyboard and offer to let the IT department check it over for you to make sure it's "safe".
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Wait, where the **** is the MassDrop back on?!
It's not, I am just hoping to get in on the next round. As far as I can tell they still haven't shipped round 4.
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Just a quick update on this. I took it to work today and one of the managers in my department (who I previously asked about bring a keyboard) said I could use it since it doesn't have USB ports (and it's clear, so you can tell it doesn't have a hidden USB).
If I get the clear to continue bringing it I'm planning to buy a better bag for it (see here (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50747.msg1131774#msg1131774)). I'm currently packing it in a bag meant for a 15" laptop but that's a bit big for the Ergodox. :))
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Just a quick update on this. I took it to work today and one of the managers in my department (who I previously asked about bring a keyboard) said I could use it since it doesn't have USB ports (and it's clear, so you can tell it doesn't have a hidden USB).
If I get the clear to continue bringing it I'm planning to buy a better bag for it (see here (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50747.msg1131774#msg1131774)). I'm currently packing it in a bag meant for a 15" laptop but that's a bit big for the Ergodox. :))
Congrats, may your fingers enjoy much great typing at work and at home.
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Happy ending then. Congrats!
My company let me have all the way with any keyboards I bring in
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Just a quick update on this. I took it to work today and one of the managers in my department (who I previously asked about bring a keyboard) said I could use it since it doesn't have USB ports (and it's clear, so you can tell it doesn't have a hidden USB).
This might help others as well..
The clear keyboard works, but another option is taking it in let them see inside, and once checked they can put a security tag over the seam after you put it together again. Tell them they can also epoxy over the screws if it makes them happy.
Worst case, offer to pay for it and let them purchase it, then do the above.
If that doesn't convince them, you're pretty much sunk.
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This might also work but ideally if they are also touch typists.
That is to let the borrow your mechanical keyboard after showing them there are no USB keyloggers let alone key loggers of any sort. There are no fishy chipsets that would harbor anything apart from translating signals from key presses to key codes for machine to read. Once they can feel how nice it is to use a mechanical keyboard (with a bit of hope of course). You may not only get them to accept you but may also change them into buying mechanical keyboards themselves.
I was thinking of suggesting this earlier but I had my doubts on whether or not will it fly. Even now I still have some doubts. However in the OPs case, his/her manager seems to be very understanding. If it wasn't the issue with the standard keyboard it would be ergo and then went out to get ergo keyboard. So maybe a bit of persuasion may help for cases like that (though it needs to be done correctly in my opinion).