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geekhack Community => Off Topic => Topic started by: Linkbane on Tue, 29 October 2013, 11:10:31

Title: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: Linkbane on Tue, 29 October 2013, 11:10:31
So I wanted to ask something like this for a while now. Honestly, I feel as if it's rather pointless for people who can't type to use a mechanical keyboard. It doesn't increase speed at all at lower wpm, and you're not going to wear out a membrane if you're typing at 40 wpm.
It seems more like an accessory, like an $80 gaming mouse on a bronze player's computer, than something actually of use.

Does anybody agree? I do see how this could be taken as biased given how I type, but still. I make the statement that if someone can't learn to touch type at any decent speed, it's completely pointless to get a mechanical over a dome/membrane. I personally didn't get a mechanical or even look into them until I broke 100, but I understand that's a small minority.

What do you think the bar for a mechanical keyboard having any use is? I'd say somewhere like 55, personally, what about you?
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 29 October 2013, 11:14:21
So your saying the thousands of dollars I've spent just to fit in around here were wasted?? I type very slow  ???

And why not post this in keyboards....then at least the posts would count.....

And we have geekhackers over 55? You have a problem with old people?
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: JPG on Tue, 29 October 2013, 11:16:42
First, it's much more pleasant to type on a mech keyboard. Also, since I got my mech keyboard, it has motivated me to force myself to relearn to touch type, and it has worked. The keyboard does not make me type faster, yet it does.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 29 October 2013, 11:19:34
Nope... Linkbane is correct....   this is predominantly a foray into "affordable-materialism"...

The Ergodox helps since I spend so much time here. but.. do I NEED IT... Could I Use my computer LESS....

Absolutely...  but I'd honestly have nothing else to do... I'd have to go outside and be bored there....
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: esoomenona on Tue, 29 October 2013, 11:20:04
I don't think speed of typing is the primary factor in this determination. I would actually say the biggest determining factor would be amount of time spent in use.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 29 October 2013, 11:21:23
Nope... Linkbane is correct....   this is predominantly a foray into "affordable-materialism"...

The Ergodox helps since I spend so much time here. but.. do I NEED IT... Could I Use my computer LESS....

Absolutely...  but I'd honestly have nothing else to do... I'd have to go outside and be bored there....

Yeah if you went outside you might get a bug bite, sun burn, allergy from all the things growing, frostbite, win burn, struck by lightning... etc, etc
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: Burz on Tue, 29 October 2013, 11:26:43
I learned to touch-type recently when I decided to switch to mechanical, so I have a perspective on this...

Hunt and peck at 50wpm was utter hell on a typical 2000's rubber dome keyboard. It was far worse than the old days when mechanicals were common (but also, the first RDs were nicer like a good Keytronic). Its a wonder certain keyboards did not get stomped on or tossed out the window.

So, IMO, the keyfeel is the largest factor in banishing typing irritation/frustration. Touch typing helps the long-term stress, which is different.

Now I'm near 75WPM on a mechanical, but my typing style is still developing and I plant my palms on the wrist rest too much. When I switch to a typical (cheap) RD, the awfulness still descends on me.  :(
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 29 October 2013, 11:28:06
Nope... Linkbane is correct....   this is predominantly a foray into "affordable-materialism"...

The Ergodox helps since I spend so much time here. but.. do I NEED IT... Could I Use my computer LESS....

Absolutely...  but I'd honestly have nothing else to do... I'd have to go outside and be bored there....

Yeah if you went outside you might get a bug bite, sun burn, allergy from all the things growing, frostbite, win burn, struck by lightning... etc, etc

(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/e111de78.gif)

OMG...... noooooooooooooooooo.... I will never go outside again... you've convinced me.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: TLSC.wipeOut on Tue, 29 October 2013, 12:06:18
I simply think that once you've used mechanical keyboards... you can never really go back into using membrane based keyboards. =D
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: nullstring on Tue, 29 October 2013, 12:06:51
First, it's much more pleasant to type on a mech keyboard.

This.
I do not think that a mechanical keyboard really assists myself in typing faster...
but it certainly makes for a much smoother ride.

Honestly, anyone who uses a keyboard for 8+ hours a day should at least consider a mechanical regardless of their typing speed.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: neunelfer on Tue, 29 October 2013, 12:17:58
Not only are they nicer to type on, but some people have an appreciation for well-built, high quality items. Most mechanical keyboards fall into this category.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 29 October 2013, 12:18:25
I keep going back to the comparison to shoes.

Specialty shoes, like running shoes, are not necessarily the most comfortable, longest-lasting, best-looking, etc.

Most of us, I suspect, are buying for comfort.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: zoolzoo on Tue, 29 October 2013, 12:20:46
I don't think speed of typing is the primary factor in this determination. I would actually say the biggest determining factor would be amount of time spent in use.

This is pretty much it right here.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: agodinhost on Tue, 29 October 2013, 13:04:38
without mech keyboards how would you meet us?
your life would be miserable man ...
you would have much more money in your pockets
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: goobus on Tue, 29 October 2013, 13:10:59
Not only are they nicer to type on, but some people have an appreciation for well-built, high quality items. Most mechanical keyboards fall into this category.
Amen. Just look at the luxury watch industry :P those things are not only impractical (they are LESS accurate than a cheap Casio!) they also cost 20x more. I mean, there's your answer right there...no it's not a "waste," because practicability is not the only consideration, though it is an important one.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: Linkbane on Tue, 29 October 2013, 13:17:04
This was a topic for generating discussion, and I can say that it has done that quite successfully. One thing that I do see is that it does motivate one to touch type with greater accuracy, and there we go, that's already an improvement of speed and therefore a validation.

Amen. Just look at the luxury watch industry :P those things are not only impractical (they are LESS accurate than a cheap Casio!) they also cost 20x more. I mean, there's your answer right there...no it's not a "waste," because you can't just waste just on whether something is practical.

A watch is an indicator of status which purely costs money and has no purpose but to tell time, and in fact no purpose at all given that most people have phones.

A keyboard is an input device. I find it moronic that someone would brag about their expensive keyboard and how good they are when I could probably type twice as fast as they do on a rubber dome. Mainly I was questioning whether a mechanical was a symbol of status, an actually useful tool (which it clearly is not to you), or just something to blow cash on.

The opinion besides that of tp4, moose, and myself seems to be that it's for comfort and therefore useful, whereas goobus uses a bit of a bad analogy (a mechanical is both more durable and better for typing than a RD, to most all). Perhaps it would be more apt if rubber domes were better built than mechanicals, but alas, that's not the case.

Thanks for the posts, keep them coming.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: vun on Tue, 29 October 2013, 13:21:41
I don't think speed of typing is the primary factor in this determination. I would actually say the biggest determining factor would be amount of time spent in use.

This, this so much.
Typing speed isn't a factor at all imo, it's all about how much time you spend. Sure, might not be worth it to get an edox for hunt and peck, but I'd imagine hunting and pecking on a model m is far more enjoyable than a cheap dome board.

Also, why should skill determine what mouse you get? Most gamers(everyone who doesn't make a living from it) have very little real need for a good mouse, but they'd still like their gaming experience to be enjoyable. Heck, often the features in gaming mice will be useful outside of gaming, you don't need to be a gamer at all to get one.

So yeah, this thread is completely missing the point.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 29 October 2013, 13:22:46
I find it moronic...

+1
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 29 October 2013, 13:27:53
From what I've seen from people's signatures, I'm a fairly slow touch typer (70 WPM). I don't really care about my WPM and never have. For me, I started looking at nice mice and keyboards because I was writing a lot and wanted to have a tool to make my experience more enjoyable. I also spend a lot of time with my computer, both at work and at home. I like having nice keyboards/mice because it makes my time in front of the computer that much better.

And I feel like mechanical keyboards helped with hand/arm pains I felt from using rubberdome keyboards.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: goobus on Tue, 29 October 2013, 13:33:31
Nothing of what I said disagrees with the opinion you listed. All I was saying is that cheap watches and luxury ones perform the same function (accuracy was not the main point) and yet the high end model costs 20x more while adding little in terms of practicability, and yet people still buy them and admire them.. Why? 1) they are beautiful and can be seen as works of art, 2) they are status symbols, 3) they last way longer, 3) they are more unique, and most of all, 4) it is FUN to learn about something esoteric and collect it.

All of these, maybe except #2, apply to why we do what we do here on gh...

Plus, your entire post reeks of "you 40wpm idiots couldn't use it properly anyways, why do you bother?"  It's abrasive and I think you're full of yourself.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: hcry4 on Tue, 29 October 2013, 13:55:34
I thought you were going to call out people for having too many keyboards and not using them. I was thinking that some people feel they are going to waste by not being used. All my keyboards love me back though.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: esoomenona on Tue, 29 October 2013, 13:56:38
Plus, your entire post reeks of "you 40wpm idiots couldn't use it properly anyways, why do you bother?"  It's abrasive and I think you're full of yourself.

Mhm, mhm.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: bitbang3r on Tue, 29 October 2013, 14:02:11
Convincing people who can't type to buy mechanical keyboards DOES serve a useful purpose -- it helps drive economy of scale, so the unwashed masses can subsidize our fun. It's one tiny step we can take to fight back against the Walmart race to the bottom that, left unchecked, will leave us with a dystropian market where a garbage keyboard that's mushy, breaks in 3 months, and drops 1% of keystrokes under the best circumstances  costs $2 and sells by the hundreds of millions, and a mechanical keyboard is a one-off work of art by a master craftsman armed with a Makerbot and soldering iron, takes 4 days to build, and costs several hundred dollars.

The more we stand by and allow mass-market consumer gear to degenerate towards throw-away netbooks and under-powered tablets, the more prohibitively expensive it's going to become to buy anything that's even a TINY bit better, because the garbage wrings all the economies of scale out of the market and turns everything else into an expensive coture fringe luxury.

For a perfect example, look at laptops. They've obviously come WAY down in price compared to ten years ago. Ten years ago, a bottom-scraping low end laptop was around $800-1000 unless it was a $499 loss-leader on Black Friday... but for $500-1000 more, you got to enjoy a HUGE step up. The low end was expensive, but the non-exotic "one or two steps down from the highest of high end" wasn't a whole lot more, relatively speaking. Maybe double or triple the cost of the cheapest junk you could buy.

Compare that to now, where a crap netbook costs $300, but $800 might get you an equally-crap 15" with 1366x768 display and 1.8GHz AMD value-line CPU, and $1,300 barely makes a dent in a decent gamer notebook. The admission price & cover charge to get in the door has come way down, but the $500-1,000 you used to spend on your bar tab once inside doesn't buy you nearly as much extra fun as it used to.  The gap between the low end and high end has widened considerably, and it's going to keep widening unless we do our best to fight it by continuing to encourage family members & neighbors to buy new computers and help subsidize our high-end fun.

The ultimate dystropian example would be a world where you can buy a crap netbook with ad-supported apps and version of Windows for $50, but buying a high-end laptop or desktop suitable for real content creation might set you back $5,000-10,000, plus another $500 if you're hellbent on buying a retail copy of Windows that gives YOU the admin rights instead of your ISP, cable company, employer, or some other entity, and another $250 for the UEFI bios subsidy unlock code if you want to install Linux. That's the direction we're heading in. We might not be able to stop it, but if we make half an effort, we might at least be able to delay its arrival by another half-century, so we'll either be dead, or old and satisfied with our old, open hardware, by the time our grandkids realize they're frogs in a pot of boiling water.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: HPE1000 on Tue, 29 October 2013, 14:08:59
In my opinion, that is like saying that someone shouldn't be gaming on a pc if they aren't winning competitions or being the best gamer out there. That they should just stick to a console if they suck.

Just because someone has a passion for something doesn't mean that they need to be the best at it..
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: Michael on Tue, 29 October 2013, 14:15:12
(http://i.imgur.com/AAwqJVC.gif)
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Tue, 29 October 2013, 14:19:33
Like most things I buy, I buy something that cost more and has a certain level of quality the first time. That way I save money over the longer term since I don't have to replace as often. In the case of mechanical keyboard, the biggest threat to it's end of use is obsolescence of the connector/protocol used to speak with the computer.
I also agree that comfort comes into play by a huge margin for me as well. I often spend entire day, minus 4-5 hours sleeping time on my PC doing both 'work' and entertainment purpose. Long gone is the hand fatigue from having to crush domes into the hard plastic bottom to get response. Comfort is the reason I still refuse to replace my MX Revolution mouse.
Economy of scale, that has some good points too. MX keyboard in the entry to mid level category have come way down in price, probably now 30-40% cheaper than few years ago. If it keep becoming more popular and assuming Cherry ZF can keep up quality and with demand in switches production they may get a bit cheaper before the minimum profit margin manufacturer is willing to go.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: ynrozturk on Tue, 29 October 2013, 14:30:28
I think what OP is trying to say is that it's kinda like driving a Ferrari and never going over 40mph. Not being able to use it to it's full potential.. or something?

Personally I'm a touch typist, and I average around 100 wpm. I was faster on rubber domes believe it or not, but I think that has to do with the low profile of the keys. Or maybe I've yet to find the right switch for my typing style.

Still, for sheer comfort, mechanical is the way to go. You don't need to be a great typist to use one, just like you don't have to be a good runner to own a good pair of running shoes..
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 29 October 2013, 14:33:21
But owning and having mechanical keyboards is about so much more than ' Oh look how fast I can type!!!!"
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: Lastpilot on Tue, 29 October 2013, 14:37:51
But owning and having mechanical keyboards is about so much more than ' Oh look how fast I can type!!!!"
Yes, I find it akin to owning a piece of art that I am partial to. There is some ineffable about having a nice keyboard, particularly if it is a custom one.

I second CPTBadAss's post. It's about making your time spent at your desk just better overall. Just gives me the warm fuzzies when I come home to it and type on it. Definitely a luxury, not a need. But it's not a waste!
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: Glod on Tue, 29 October 2013, 14:58:21
gonna get YOLO stickers for all my keyboards to make me feel like they were worth it; all this money spent on just keyboards

but are mechanical keyboards and topre worth it?

YES, Everyone should try one and decides.

sigh, off subject, for some reason i cant convince myself to put up a classifieds post to shed some of this keyboard related debt.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 29 October 2013, 15:04:20
sigh, off subject, for some reason i cant convince myself to put up a classifieds post to shed some of this keyboard related debt.

^^ That could be epic....
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Tue, 29 October 2013, 15:19:13
Linkbane is such a hater...

In my opinion, that is like saying that someone shouldn't be gaming on a pc if they aren't winning competitions or being the best gamer out there. That they should just stick to a console if they suck.

Just because someone has a passion for something doesn't mean that they need to be the best at it..

^This. QFT.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: Michael on Tue, 29 October 2013, 15:21:26
(http://i.imgur.com/1aouGNN.jpg)
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Tue, 29 October 2013, 15:23:20
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/1aouGNN.jpg)


Lolz, +1
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 29 October 2013, 15:58:56
Increasing typing speed is not on my radar at all when it comes to which keyboards I purchase.  There are so many other factors to consider, as everyone has been pointing out.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: Puddsy on Tue, 29 October 2013, 18:05:28
Will I like it? Y/N

if yes is worth
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: Polymer on Tue, 29 October 2013, 19:41:24
The point of having a mechanical keyboard isn't just to type faster.  That might be one reason for one person....There is also the fact that they're quality devices and the overall experience is better.  So even people that don't care about typing faster (or even if they're just not that fast) can still want a more enjoyable experience.  I think most people getting mechanical keyboards agree, it is a more enjoyable experience.  It doesn't matter if you gain WPM or don't gain WPM...at the end of the day, you're enjoying the experience more and that is worth it to a lot of people.

It is very much like watches in that a quartz watch will be cheaper (and more accurate) but it isn't as enjoyable.  You don't appreciate all of the work that went into making a watch out of thousands of little integrated parts that require no external power source.  For the practical function you get out of it, you're far better off with quartz watch..or no watch at all....From a non practical you're getting (for men) a piece of jewelry, a talking point, an heirloom.  You're not getting 10 times the functionality out of a mechanical over an ordinary rubber dome keyboard but you're getting a better quality device, a more enjoyable device to use.

Same with mice.  You don't have to be a pro gamer to want to use a great mouse....

There are, of course, other reasons why people might want a mechanical keyboard but I have yet to see someone actually say they use a mechanical because they type better with it but they wish they could use their old dell junky keyboard instead...If it wasn't more enjoyable to use, most people who buy mechanical keyboards wouldn't bother...
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: Linkbane on Tue, 29 October 2013, 19:58:35
Increasing typing speed is not on my radar at all when it comes to which keyboards I purchase.  There are so many other factors to consider, as everyone has been pointing out.

Did not have to do with what I said.
It's pointless to post this on GH because everyone has enough money and sense (or lack of it) to buy lots of boards.

Must everyone become so stupidly defensive when I question their motives? Again, all of the examples given are completely illogical.

In my opinion, that is like saying that someone shouldn't be gaming on a pc if they aren't winning competitions or being the best gamer out there. That they should just stick to a console if they suck.

Just because someone has a passion for something doesn't mean that they need to be the best at it..

This is everything that's wrong with things. Just like saying that since you have a passion for drinking but have no taste for it, there's nothing wasteful about buying a hundred-year-old vintage. Sure, there's nothing wrong with it, it's just pretentious and useless, and it's pretty sad when the guy tells you all about how he can serve it in fancy glasses and pour it fancily (kind of like all this sticker/o-ring modification when the person can't even use a keyboard).

Make people pay $400 for a CC that cost $20 and nobody bats an eye- try to point out a glaring hole in logic and everyone loses their minds.

Plus, your entire post reeks of "you 40wpm idiots couldn't use it properly anyways, why do you bother?"  It's abrasive and I think you're full of yourself.

Goobus, I said quite the opposite. You made up words to vilify me, enjoy the feeling of happiness you get from being a pretentious child. And really, I do scoff at 40 wpm idiots, but only when they brag about how good of a board they have and can't use it better than most sixth graders. That would probably include you, IIRC ordering three Topre boards because money.

But owning and having mechanical keyboards is about so much more than ' Oh look how fast I can type!!!!"
Yes, I find it akin to owning a piece of art that I am partial to. There is some ineffable about having a nice keyboard, particularly if it is a custom one.

I second CPTBadAss's post. It's about making your time spent at your desk just better overall. Just gives me the warm fuzzies when I come home to it and type on it. Definitely a luxury, not a need. But it's not a waste!

Yes, this is one of the things I was alluding to. If it's simply like art, and something we appreciate while having little practical use over any other keyboard.

@Polymer:
Thanks, I agree with the post quite a bit.
About mice though, you need to be quite good before it makes any difference..
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: demik on Tue, 29 October 2013, 20:05:20
guess ill get rid of this football jersey since i dont play football.

and all these basketball shoes since cycling is my preferred sport.


but honestly, hunt and peckers (huehue) make me sad, especially those that spend a ton of money on keyboards. touch typing should be second nature to all of us, slow or fast typers.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: Polymer on Tue, 29 October 2013, 20:24:10
@Polymer:
Thanks, I agree with the post quite a bit.
About mice though, you need to be quite good before it makes any difference..

It isn't because the ordinary gamer will see a difference in performance as far as what technically the better mouse is giving them....but sometimes you want a better mouse because it is more enjoyable to use..it feels better.  I would argue, if you're playing hours and hours on a game, what is an extra 50 dollars on a mouse to make your experience more enjoyable?  No doubt a really nice mouse feels better than a junky one especially because they're designed with a better shape, better weight (or even weight options)...The build is better.  A pro gamer is going to smoke an ordinary player even with a mini travel mouse but that doesn't mean people don't want to use devices that give them more enjoyment.  The actual percentage of gamers where the device's actual technically superior features will make a difference is really quite small...a lot smaller than the actual market buying these devices..

I have wondered why some people that are really into keyboards can't really be bothered to learn how to type even semi properly..but really, it doesn't matter...they're enjoying their keyboard and that makes it worth the money they're spending on it. 
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: Linkbane on Tue, 29 October 2013, 20:27:03
@Polymer:
Thanks, I agree with the post quite a bit.
About mice though, you need to be quite good before it makes any difference..

It isn't because the ordinary gamer will see a difference in performance as far as what technically the better mouse is giving them....but sometimes you want a better mouse because it is more enjoyable to use..it feels better.  I would argue, if you're playing hours and hours on a game, what is an extra 50 dollars on a mouse to make your experience more enjoyable?  No doubt a really nice mouse feels better than a junky one especially because they're designed with a better shape, better weight (or even weight options)...The build is better.  A pro gamer is going to smoke an ordinary player even with a mini travel mouse but that doesn't mean people don't want to use devices that give them more enjoyment.  The actual percentage of gamers where the device's actual technically superior features will make a difference is really quite small...a lot smaller than the actual market buying these devices..

I have wondered why some people that are really into keyboards can't really be bothered to learn how to type even semi properly..but really, it doesn't matter...they're enjoying their keyboard and that makes it worth the money they're spending on it.

If they do play a lot, then it would indeed be helpful because while the immediate benefits for a lesser player might not be noticeable, the small things over time build up so that it ends up in a significant net gain. I'm definitely in the same boat, I'm not a great gamer by any means, but I bought an M95 mouse because it's both helpful to gaming as well as very comfortable.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Tue, 29 October 2013, 20:28:19
It's pretty simple. Even if you type slow, that's 40wpm of bliss instead of 40wpm of button mashing.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: goobus on Tue, 29 October 2013, 20:37:15
Quote from: Linkbane
Must everyone become so stupidly defensive when I question their motives? Again, all of the examples given are completely illogical.
There's nothing illogical in saying that there is more than ONE consideration when buying a keyboard. That's what all analogies here have been trying to point out. There's also nothing stupidly defensive about defending a hobby you love. It's quite natural to feel defensive when your tone is so judgmental and honestly worse than anything I've gotten from anyone IRL when I tell them about my keyboard hobby.

Quote from: Linkbane
Goobus, I said quite the opposite. You made up words to vilify me, enjoy the feeling of happiness you get from being a pretentious child. And really, I do scoff at 40 wpm idiots, but only when they brag about how good of a board they have and can't use it better than most sixth graders. That would probably include you, IIRC ordering three Topre boards because money.

Thanks for proving my point. And no, I type 120wpm. Good try?  And yes, I got 3 topre boards because I have money to blow on fancy things (like many of us here). I'm unsure how that infers I type slow, in any way.  Am I wasting keyboards oh mighty 146wpm? Do I need to seek approval from faster typists every time I buy a keyboard, or Michael Schumacher when I buy a fast car?

I don't see how you can hold the position that you agree with anyone else on this thread and still turn around and say something like "I do scoff at 40 wpm idiots".  It just doesn't make sense. I guess you didn't expect the level of heat you'd get and are trying to dig yourself out of this one.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: HPE1000 on Tue, 29 October 2013, 20:49:53
@Polymer:
Thanks, I agree with the post quite a bit.
About mice though, you need to be quite good before it makes any difference..

It isn't because the ordinary gamer will see a difference in performance as far as what technically the better mouse is giving them....but sometimes you want a better mouse because it is more enjoyable to use..it feels better.  I would argue, if you're playing hours and hours on a game, what is an extra 50 dollars on a mouse to make your experience more enjoyable?  No doubt a really nice mouse feels better than a junky one especially because they're designed with a better shape, better weight (or even weight options)...The build is better.  A pro gamer is going to smoke an ordinary player even with a mini travel mouse but that doesn't mean people don't want to use devices that give them more enjoyment.  The actual percentage of gamers where the device's actual technically superior features will make a difference is really quite small...a lot smaller than the actual market buying these devices..

I have wondered why some people that are really into keyboards can't really be bothered to learn how to type even semi properly..but really, it doesn't matter...they're enjoying their keyboard and that makes it worth the money they're spending on it.

If they do play a lot, then it would indeed be helpful because while the immediate benefits for a lesser player might not be noticeable, the small things over time build up so that it ends up in a significant net gain. I'm definitely in the same boat, I'm not a great gamer by any means, but I bought an M95 mouse because it's both helpful to gaming as well as very comfortable.

So a gaming mouse can be helpful to gaming but a mechanical keyboard cannot be helpful to typing unless someone is typing fast? I am not getting the point here, and by you continuously going on about the costs, you just end up sounding jealous. (I am not saying that you are by any means, but that is the vibe I get)

I do not think a single person here is defending a hunt and peck typer, they are just simply saying that it is a bit off to say that someone shouldn't buy an expensive keyboard/s if they do not type past a certain speed that you believe they should.

Quit acting so childish because people are not agreeing with your opinions, taking personal shots at people doesn't make them want to agree with you...


You just keep contradicting yourself with half these responses.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: HPE1000 on Tue, 29 October 2013, 20:52:24
I think that this thread was simply made to stroke your typing speed ego more than anything else, implying that you are somehow more worthy than someone who types slower than you.  :))
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: dustinhxc on Tue, 29 October 2013, 21:11:14
I think that this thread was simply made to stroke your typing speed ego more than anything else, implying that you are somehow more worthy than someone who types slower than you.  :))

True that.

Because I spend 20 hours on the computer and want to enjoy it without a ****ty piece of plastic at my fingertips all day and night.  :thumb: :cool:
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: Linkbane on Tue, 29 October 2013, 21:35:08
I think that this thread was simply made to stroke your typing speed ego more than anything else, implying that you are somehow more worthy than someone who types slower than you.  :))

Despite all the evidence to the contrary, sure. Your opinion.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: neunelfer on Tue, 29 October 2013, 21:44:44
I think that this thread was simply made to stroke your typing speed ego more than anything else, implying that you are somehow more worthy than someone who types slower than you.  :))

My all-time best is 138 WPM on typeracer, where you actually type sentences and not a bunch of random four letter words. My average? About 110-115. I think he got 146 one time, put it in his signature, and clearly this thread was started to show it off.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 29 October 2013, 21:47:06
Oh to be 16 again.......
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: HPE1000 on Tue, 29 October 2013, 21:54:18
I think that this thread was simply made to stroke your typing speed ego more than anything else, implying that you are somehow more worthy than someone who types slower than you.  :))

Despite all the evidence to the contrary, sure. Your opinion.
What evidence?

This will be my last post in this thread, good luck with whatever you are trying to accomplish here.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: HPE1000 on Tue, 29 October 2013, 21:56:46
Oh to be 16 again.......
hahaha

I didn't understand what you meant by that at first then I realized.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: Michael on Tue, 29 October 2013, 22:56:43
Linkbane making many friends, as usual.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: Photekq on Tue, 29 October 2013, 23:05:08
(http://i.imgur.com/Q8NXy6u.png)

Moose has it right. Speed does not matter. The amount of usage is what matters. If you use a keyboard for 10 hours per day then a mechanical keyboard will be worth the money no matter how slowly you type.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: demik on Tue, 29 October 2013, 23:10:41
linkbane second half 2013 tp4tissue
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 29 October 2013, 23:51:12
linkbane second half 2013 tp4tissue

Demik, ur just jealous I've surpassed your popularity (http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/073.gif)
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 30 October 2013, 01:04:37
Increasing typing speed is not on my radar at all when it comes to which keyboards I purchase.  There are so many other factors to consider, as everyone has been pointing out.

Did not have to do with what I said.
It's pointless to post this on GH because everyone has enough money and sense (or lack of it) to buy lots of boards.

Must everyone become so stupidly defensive when I question their motives? Again, all of the examples given are completely illogical.

I, like everyone else in this thread, am arguing logically and directly in response to what you wrote in the OP:

Honestly, I feel as if it's rather pointless for people who can't type to use a mechanical keyboard. It doesn't increase speed at all at lower wpm...
[snip]
What do you think the bar for a mechanical keyboard having any use is? I'd say somewhere like 55, personally, what about you?

There is no speed bar for when it becomes not pointless to use a mechanical keyboard because speed is not the primary benefit of using one.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 30 October 2013, 01:27:03
Increasing typing speed is not on my radar at all when it comes to which keyboards I purchase.  There are so many other factors to consider, as everyone has been pointing out.

Did not have to do with what I said.
It's pointless to post this on GH because everyone has enough money and sense (or lack of it) to buy lots of boards.

Must everyone become so stupidly defensive when I question their motives? Again, all of the examples given are completely illogical.

I, like everyone else in this thread, am arguing logically and directly in response to what you wrote in the OP:

Honestly, I feel as if it's rather pointless for people who can't type to use a mechanical keyboard. It doesn't increase speed at all at lower wpm...
[snip]
What do you think the bar for a mechanical keyboard having any use is? I'd say somewhere like 55, personally, what about you?

There is no speed bar for when it becomes not pointless to use a mechanical keyboard because speed is not the primary benefit of using one.

I believe Linkbane is using "speed" as an indirect benchmark of computer usage...


For example... If you're on the computer all day for work/play, you'd naturally develop a high speed..

So...
someone with a LOW-SPEED   is indicative of a situation where they do not use the computer as much.

And by using their speed reference, we can roughly determine indirectly (HOW MUCH) the person would really gain by switching to mechanical...


so.. for example...

Person A uses the computer for 30mins a day.  He has 30wpm speed..  computing really isn't a great part of his life..

How much will this person benefit by switching to mechanical ??

VS

Person B uses the computer 8 hours a day. He has 100wpm speed..  computing is 1/3 of this person's life..

How much will Person B benefit form a mechanical keyboard ??



So... speed IS RELEVANT.. as an indirect statistic which correlates to how much this person uses the computer, therefore gauging  if the switch to mechanical would be worth the expense.(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/8dcf9699.gif)



So, when Linkbane says,  "this person types 30wpm he's wasting money on a mechanical... "


That is the same thing as saying.. this person uses the computer very little.. there's really no reason that he should spend resources on switching to a keyboard that he simply  "WILL NOT USE OFTEN ENOUGH"...

Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: Polymer on Wed, 30 October 2013, 01:45:04
That's a terrible conclusion.  While the correlation between WPM and time on computer might be somewhat loose...it doesn't matter...Buying a mechanical is not about money in relation to functionality or additional functionality.  It is about are you going to get enough utility (in the economic sense) out of it to justify the cost.  Basically, are you going to get enough enjoyment out of it.  I think the answer to that for basically everyone on this forum is yes, they do.  That buying decision is a personal one...everyone derives different levels of utility from things...what value you place on that will depend on a lot of different factors not least of which is how much money you actually have to spend. 
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: Linkbane on Wed, 30 October 2013, 01:54:27
That's a terrible conclusion.  While the correlation between WPM and time on computer might be somewhat loose...it doesn't matter...Buying a mechanical is not about money in relation to functionality or additional functionality.  It is about are you going to get enough utility (in the economic sense) out of it to justify the cost.  Basically, are you going to get enough enjoyment out of it. 

So functionality isn't related to utility, and then you say that getting utility economically is basically enjoyment?
Break argument meta, debate on two different levels at once?
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 30 October 2013, 02:15:57
That's a terrible conclusion.  While the correlation between WPM and time on computer might be somewhat loose...it doesn't matter...Buying a mechanical is not about money in relation to functionality or additional functionality.  It is about are you going to get enough utility (in the economic sense) out of it to justify the cost.  Basically, are you going to get enough enjoyment out of it.  I think the answer to that for basically everyone on this forum is yes, they do.  That buying decision is a personal one...everyone derives different levels of utility from things...what value you place on that will depend on a lot of different factors not least of which is how much money you actually have to spend. 


My point is that Utility is a good measure for purchases.


If you want to say.. "this purchase" makes me happy..  that's valid as well... I agree

but if it VIOLATES  utility....   then in most cases, there are better options for your money, which have BOTH more utility TO YOU... and make you just as if not more happy.

(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/sillyp1.gif)
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: Polymer on Wed, 30 October 2013, 05:26:06
That's a terrible conclusion.  While the correlation between WPM and time on computer might be somewhat loose...it doesn't matter...Buying a mechanical is not about money in relation to functionality or additional functionality.  It is about are you going to get enough utility (in the economic sense) out of it to justify the cost.  Basically, are you going to get enough enjoyment out of it. 

So functionality isn't related to utility, and then you say that getting utility economically is basically enjoyment?
Break argument meta, debate on two different levels at once?

No..I said utility, using the term the way it would be used in economics, is basically enjoyment.  There is actually more to that term than just enjoyment but to make it easy that is a good way to think about it. 

Functionality, as in, greater functionality in the way of making someone type faster, is not why most people spend extra money on mechanical keyboards...I'm sure some people might have justified their purchase in some objective way...it lasts longer, I'm typing better, I'm using better form, etc, etc...but the reality is, most people probably aren't typing any faster (although some are), the keyboard longevity probably isn't a factor at all...the real basis for using one is, you enjoy it more...the quality is probably better, it feels better in your hands....a quality instrument vs. an ordinary one...
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 30 October 2013, 07:26:24
And really, I do scoff at 40 wpm idiots, but only when they brag about how good of a board they have and can't use it better than most sixth graders.


Bro I found you a hat!

[attachimg=1]

ps: be careful if you google fast fingers you might get inappropriate images wouldn't want your mom to see those, I was trying to find that site you used so I get test my skillz  :thumb:
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Wed, 30 October 2013, 07:37:35
I had to un-ignore Linkbane to read this thread. I wish I never did...

On one hand though I will give him credit, his initial argument is quite logical. But it's still wrong, because as we all know, humans are not logical. On that basis, his argument therefore becomes illogical.



Disproves logic with more logic. Your arguments are invalid.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: iri on Wed, 30 October 2013, 07:38:48
this forum goes insane
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 30 October 2013, 07:41:34
this forum goes insane

congats on 400 posts iri!!
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: goobus on Wed, 30 October 2013, 07:41:55
And really, I do scoff at 40 wpm idiots, but only when they brag about how good of a board they have and can't use it better than most sixth graders.


Bro I found you a hat!

(Attachment Link)

ps: be carefuly if you google fast fingers you might get inappropriate images wouldn't want your mom to see those  :thumb:
In light of this post, I think we can close this thread now.
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: iri on Wed, 30 October 2013, 07:43:51
this forum goes insane

congats on 400 posts iri!!
wrong thread but thanks!!
Title: Re: Wasting Mechanical Keyboards
Post by: esoomenona on Wed, 30 October 2013, 08:11:19
ps: be carefuly if you google fast fingers you might get inappropriate images wouldn't want your mom to see those  :thumb:

Just so everyone knows, the site that Linkbane's supposed typing test was performed on is 10fastfingers.com, NOT fastfingers.com... If I was anyone else, I'd probably wonder what whoever checks the logs thinks, but I'm sure they know it's just par for the course in my case.