geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: morpheus on Wed, 30 October 2013, 03:21:31
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Here are mine:
1. Ducky Shine Brown
2. Leopold FC 660C
I know it's all relative, but I'd like to see if the results just for fun :)
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HHKB Pro 2 and HHKB Type-S
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1. Ducky Shine 2 clear mx
2. HHKB Pro 2 w/ dental band and 55g mod
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Haven't had experience with enough to recommend 2 but I really like my Filco.
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For first timers:
QFR
Poker II
For experienced:
HHKB Pro 2
Model M
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HHKB Pro 2 and Model M (except someone else beat me to it).
Something with MX blacks if you cannot find a Model M.
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HHKB Pro 2 and Model M (except someone else beat me to it).
Something with MX blacks if you cannot find a Model M.
I like your style, trio of perfection right there.
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I'd go with Filcos unless you want to throw down top dollar then go with topre.
If you're a vintage seeker, IBM Model M.
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Can't go wrong with QFR to start you off. Was my second keyboard, for $70 it has served me well.
I guess a Filco wouldn't be a bad option either.
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1. Filco with switch of choice for people with unlimited budget.
2. CM QFR with switch of choice for people with limited budget.
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If I'm recommending a keyboard, the person who I'm talking to is probably new to mechanical keyboards. So I would suggest...
Limited budget and new: QFR
Bigger budget and new: Filco
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Budget: CM Quick Fire Rapid
Backlight: Ducky Zero 2108S (as much as I tell them not to, most people just want backlit keyboards, so might as well get a good one)
Those are the most recommended keyboards on my Brazilian Portuguese Mechanical Keyboard Guide, but I'd sure as hell want to recommend more keyboards like the Matias Mini QP and Leopold FC660C, but since they're way over the budget people want to spend and there are no good suppliers that send them to Brazil... :(
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Budget: CM Storm QuickFire XT
Rich: Deck Legend Frost
Both full-sized.
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I'll suggest leopold to anyone within earshot of me, I have both a 660m and 660c and they are the two boards I use daily, benching my model M and filco.
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Leopold FC200R
Realforce 87U
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Pure.
Poker.
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1. Ducky Shine 2 clear mx
Agh, stop torturing me!
1. Shine 3 TKL (hoping to get one of these soon)
2. Anything with Cherry Blues. Real talk.
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1. Ducky Shine 2 clear mx
Agh, stop torturing me!
1. Shine 3 TKL (hoping to get one of these soon)
2. Anything with Cherry Blues. Real talk.
It's my favorite keyboard!!!
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HHKB Pro 2 and HHKB Type-S
+1
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1. Ducky Shine 2 clear mx
Agh, stop torturing me!
1. Shine 3 TKL (hoping to get one of these soon)
2. Anything with Cherry Blues. Real talk.
It's my favorite keyboard!!!
You make my pores exude jelly. Very much jelly.
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Poker II for budget, otherwise HHKB Pro 2.
It's hard to convince people that they should give up their numberpad and dedicated arrows/home cluster/fn row, but 60% is superior if you can adapt to it.
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Ducky Shine or Filco for full sized
Poker for 60%
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_
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Full size
Too many choices
TKL
1. QFR for budget <$80
2. Topre if budget > $300 :)
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FC660C
Quickfire Stealth <---- seriously amazing for the price!
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HHKB Pro 2 and HHKB Type-S
+1
Thirded.
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TKL: Realforce 87U
60%: FC660C
I'm not very happy with this however, because both keyboards are Topres and come from Leopold. The truth is that I also really love Cherry MX boards like the Filcos and the ones in the Poker family from KBT or KBC.
The two I have mentioned are just, I think, a little above the other ones I have been able to try. Just a little bit, and it's just my opinion.
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It's hard to convince people that they should give up their numberpad and dedicated arrows/home cluster/fn row, but 60% is superior if you can adapt to it.
Why should we/me/anyone give up the number-pad, etc? And what do you mean by "superior" in regards to 60%?
I'm new here and these are serious questions (i.e. not trolling). Is there something objectively better about reduced size keyboards?
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It's hard to convince people that they should give up their numberpad and dedicated arrows/home cluster/fn row, but 60% is superior if you can adapt to it.
Why should we/me/anyone give up the number-pad, etc? And what do you mean by "superior" in regards to 60%?
I'm new here and these are serious questions (i.e. not trolling). Is there something objectively better about reduced size keyboards?
One reason is ergonomics, you have your mouse moved in and helps with positioning shoulders better.
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Model M
QFR w/Blues
Clicky ftw.
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It's hard to convince people that they should give up their numberpad and dedicated arrows/home cluster/fn row, but 60% is superior if you can adapt to it.
Why should we/me/anyone give up the number-pad, etc? And what do you mean by "superior" in regards to 60%?
I'm new here and these are serious questions (i.e. not trolling). Is there something objectively better about reduced size keyboards?
I'll elaborate on what Spamray said. The concept is to keep your hands on or close to the home row. If you can touch-type and memorize the Fn layer locations, you can type without really moving your fingers away from the home row, and save a lot of hand travel. It's good for speed and ergo.
As for me, I prefer a TKL to a 60. I guess I'm too old to learn a 60% layout. I'm also not opposed to having a numberpad, but I don't like it in the space where my mouse should be. I go with a detached pad to the right of my mouse, or perhaps above the keyboard or to the left.
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1) New Model M (Unicomp)
2) Old Model M (IBM)
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It's hard to convince people that they should give up their numberpad and dedicated arrows/home cluster/fn row, but 60% is superior if you can adapt to it.
Why should we/me/anyone give up the number-pad, etc? And what do you mean by "superior" in regards to 60%?
I'm new here and these are serious questions (i.e. not trolling). Is there something objectively better about reduced size keyboards?
I'll elaborate on what Spamray said. The concept is to keep your hands on or close to the home row. If you can touch-type and memorize the Fn layer locations, you can type without really moving your fingers away from the home row, and save a lot of hand travel. It's good for speed and ergo.
As for me, I prefer a TKL to a 60. I guess I'm too old to learn a 60% layout. I'm also not opposed to having a numberpad, but I don't like it in the space where my mouse should be. I go with a detached pad to the right of my mouse, or perhaps above the keyboard or to the left.
I agree with all of this.
The way I see it is that there are 4 important parameters in favor of smaller layouts (from TenKeyLess to 60%):
- to save space in front of the computer
- to be able to cover most of the keyboard surface with your hands
- to keep your mouse as close to the keyboard as possible
- to center the keyboard in front of your screen
All of this helps in reducing hand travel, a good posture, and a well organized desk.
However as the keyboard gets smaller and smaller there comes a time when the benefits stop.
There is no universal truth here. It is a personal thing.
If for whatever reason you need the number pad, maybe because you enter a lot of numbers or you use very often its Enter key (which is conveniently located very close to the mouse) or use the symbols (like in typing "*.*" with the number pad only), going to a TenKeyLess keyboard may be already too much for you.
If you do a lot of work in an editor (programming for example) and you are very fluent with the navigation cluster of a full keyboard, a 60% keyboard may be counterproductive for you, because you have developed strong muscle memory for actions like PageUp/PageDown, going to the end of the line, moving to the start of the document, selecting several lines of text, and so on... Maybe you do these actions several hundreds times in a single day (I know I do), so it is not a given that you will be as efficient on a keyboard that requires key combinations (chording) for actions that used to require a single key. It's not that it is difficult to adapt to these new combinations, the problem is you have to think about them. They interrupt your mental flow until they become second nature.
So there may be a point where you say "I cannot do my work as well on this thing".
For most people, but not everyone, a TKL is OK. You already get the benefit of a closer mouse, which helps a lot, you save space on your desk, and you do not need to change your habits. You are immediately productive on the TKL. If you switch to a full keyboard and come back to your TKL (a common scenario in many working environments), you don't even notice it.
For a smaller population, a 60% board will work perfectly after some adaptation time. They get the full ergonomic benefit of a small keyboard. I think it works better if you don't have to switch back and forth between a 60% and a TKL or a full size.
The problem is that you will not really know how small you can go until you try a small keyboard for real work, and for long enough.
Personally I know from experience that I don't need a full size keyboard. But I'm not yet sure if I will end up using a 60% all the time or if I will just stay with a TKL.
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I went straight to HHKB from full size. Previously, with my left hand on WASD, my mouse was towards the left side of my mousepad (42 cm wide). Now, with my HHKB centralised, I subconsciously have my mouse nearer to the right edge of the pad.. :))
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Here are mine:
1. Ducky Shine Brown
2. Leopold FC 660C
I know it's all relative, but I'd like to see if the results just for fun :)
Morpheus, I see you own a HHKB. What makes you choose the FC 660C over it here?
(Just wondering since I'm considering buying my first topre; wondering if the HHKB is worth the extra cash)
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Here are mine:
1. Ducky Shine Brown
2. Leopold FC 660C
I know it's all relative, but I'd like to see if the results just for fun :)
Morpheus, I see you own a HHKB. What makes you choose the FC 660C over it here?
(Just wondering since I'm considering buying my first topre; wondering if the HHKB is worth the extra cash)
1. Arrow Keys (they come with an intuitive FN layer which function as PG DOWN, UP, HOME, END)
2. Standard layout, with Backspace on Top Row
Coming from a standard layout, everything is more economical. At this point, I don't even care about the fading legends on my keycaps. I like the HHKB and the famous thock, but it just can't replace the practicality of the FC660C. I realized that I can't really live without the arrow keys and standard layout.
Also, I don't want to spend the time developing my muscle memory for such a unique layout, when I can just stick to standard layout which is much more common, which means I can switch between my numerous boards.
HHKB is only for those who are serious about using it as their main board for a long time. For me, I can't adjust to the HHKB layout, it's just too much. HHKB isn't for everyone, I think I might even end up selling mine in the long run. I'm still keeping it for now, only because it's such a unique item and I might still end up using it.
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1. Arrow Keys (they come with an intuitive FN layer which function as PG DOWN, UP, HOME, END)
2. Standard layout, with Backspace on Top Row
Coming from a standard layout, everything is more economical. At this point, I don't even care about the fading legends on my keycaps. I like the HHKB and the famous thock, but it just can't replace the practicality of the FC660C. I realized that I can't really live without the arrow keys and standard layout.
Also, I don't want to spend the time developing my muscle memory for such a unique layout, when I can just stick to standard layout which is much more common, which means I can switch between my numerous boards.
HHKB is only for those who are serious about using it as their main board for a long time. For me, I can't adjust to the HHKB layout, it's just too much. HHKB isn't for everyone, I think I might even end up selling mine in the long run. I'm still keeping it for now, only because it's such a unique item and I might still end up using it.
This really helps a lot. Thanks! I will definitely buy the Leopold, and perhaps go for a HHKB later.
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1. NMB w/ Black Space Invaders
2. Apple IIGS A9M0330 SMK White Alps
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It's hard to convince people that they should give up their numberpad and dedicated arrows/home cluster/fn row, but 60% is superior if you can adapt to it.
Why should we/me/anyone give up the number-pad, etc? And what do you mean by "superior" in regards to 60%?
I'm new here and these are serious questions (i.e. not trolling). Is there something objectively better about reduced size keyboards?
I'll elaborate on what Spamray said. The concept is to keep your hands on or close to the home row. If you can touch-type and memorize the Fn layer locations, you can type without really moving your fingers away from the home row, and save a lot of hand travel. It's good for speed and ergo.
As for me, I prefer a TKL to a 60. I guess I'm too old to learn a 60% layout. I'm also not opposed to having a numberpad, but I don't like it in the space where my mouse should be. I go with a detached pad to the right of my mouse, or perhaps above the keyboard or to the left.
Interesting thread for me. I have been learning these lessons by experience over the last few years. I am totally in agreement with metalliqaz. I am too old for anything much more that TKL. I'm the age of most Geek Hackers parents. I work in IT (network engineer/sysadmin) and type on a lot of keyboards. I've also experienced RSI from years of pounding keyboards so I am looking for anything more ergo.
I've owned a IBM SSK for maybe 20 years, but hardly ever used it. I thought of it as a server keyboard. I've also liked mechanical keyboards (clicky) and have used most of the classics. A couple of years ago I started looking for something to help with the carpal tunnel and managed to come across Geek Hack. Since then I've bought TKL keyboards, Filco blue, a couple CMS QF blues an old Kinesis Classic, a Leopold FC660C and soon a RealForce 87U 45. I have two offices. In my home office I use three keyboards - main desk, secondary desk with KVM and work bench. At my university office I use two keyboards. Plus I like to have one "travel" keyboard so I don't have to always type on crappy laptop keyboard. They are all TKL except the travel which is FC660C.
That is because I'm too old to be switching between all my client keyboards (about 100 Linux server and maybe 400 windows workstation in my domain) and my keyboard. TKL makes that painless. In fact, I'm not sure the FC660C is going to work out as a travel keyboard. It is a great keyboard. It sure sold me on Topre though!
MC
For me It's just not worth it to have drastically different layout. If it was just my personal computer(s) I would feel different. I enjoy geek hack because I like keyboards, but they are really tools to me. If I was the OP where computers are mostly personal and money is tight, I would probably go for a poker.
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1. ibm model m
2. ducky shine 3 tkl on cherry mx blue
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Model M SSK and HHKB
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1) Any keyboard with 55g uniform Topre
Reason: feels better than anything I've ever tried
2) CM Quickfire Rapid (any switch)
Reason: Very reasonably priced and built with quality
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I prefer TKLto alternative layouts. That said, currently my two choices would be IBM SSK and Leopold FC660C. They have the best feeling when typing. I really wish there was a RealForce 87U that felt as good as Leopold F660C or that Leopold made TKL with same Topre switches as FC660C. ummv
On a budget, you can't go wrong with two CM Storm QFR in favorite cherry flavor (blues for me). Or one CMS QFR and one poker or Leo FC660M
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I went straight to HHKB from full size. Previously, with my left hand on WASD, my mouse was towards the left side of my mousepad (42 cm wide). Now, with my HHKB centralised, I subconsciously have my mouse nearer to the right edge of the pad.. :))
Yup same here, straight from full sized (only for desktops) to HHKB. I must also admit that I have used laptop keyboards in the past (mainly on laptops). My laptops never featured a dedicated numpad even though I would much prefer that feature. That said I have somewhat gotten over wanting a dedicated numpad.
I too also have a large mousepad, to be frank it is Razer Mantis mousepad. I love how the fact that I could shift my HHKB away from one side to the other and not worry about the keyboard overhanging over the mousepad whilst sharing the same space as the mouse. My desk by no means is small but the choice of HHKB makes it plenty easy to move around and not worry about wasting some extra keyboard space.