geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: dante on Mon, 18 November 2013, 05:32:05
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http://www.deckkeyboards.com/
edit: baaaahhh.. mod move this to main sec. k thx
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yeh, new keyboards.
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I love this new keyboard IF they change that ugly font
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Yawn, lost all interest.
Still that same horrible font, no Cherry clears, remarkable resemblance to Ducky. Silly gimmicks like 'breathing' LEDs. DUH, how many of us actually play with these LEDs? This could only appeal to Razer fans.
Good thing too, because I have no money anymore. :D
I love this new keyboard IF they change that ugly font
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such a circle jerk over promoting mods and this message hasn't been moved yet .. hmm...
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You know they don't actively read everything right? Easier to message a mod or have someone report your post so they actually see it.
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"The last keyboard you will ever need." - I don't think so.
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new keyboard？
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Yawn, lost all interest.
Still that same horrible font, no Cherry clears, remarkable resemblance to Ducky. Silly gimmicks like 'breathing' LEDs. DUH, how many of us actually play with these LEDs? This could only appeal to Razer fans.
Good thing too, because I have no money anymore. :D
I love this new keyboard IF they change that ugly font
They are also programmable and have high quality doubleshot PBT keycaps. Say what you will about the terrible font, but they seem to be able to put together a quality keyboard. I think these would appeal to a whole lot of people if it were not for the font.
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Is it just me or is it just look like Deck has a terrible camera? The images look terrible.
It doesn't really help out the already terrible looking boards/
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I hate that font so much IODIFHSDFGHSPGHPUGHSDUPGH.
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I wonder why Deck doesn't listen to their customer feedback. They probably lost thousands of sales all these years because of FONT.
Something that can be easily prevented if they just do a tiny bit of market research.
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Their website is too slow for me to bother looking, how sad. XD
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I wonder why Deck doesn't listen to their customer feedback. They probably lost thousands of sales all these years because of FONT.
Something that can be easily prevented if they just do a tiny bit of market research.
considering their previous releases were pretty much sold out, im sure there's some who like the font?
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If they hired some Koreans to design more attractive looking keyboards, they could produce 10x as many Decks and still be sold out.
With their current hideous appearance, I don't think they will be sold out if they upped production by 50%.
And I think very few people buy because they like the font. They buy because they like the quality, and they put up with the font.
I wonder why Deck doesn't listen to their customer feedback. They probably lost thousands of sales all these years because of FONT.
Something that can be easily prevented if they just do a tiny bit of market research.
considering their previous releases were pretty much sold out, im sure there's some who like the font?
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If they hired some Koreans to design more attractive looking keyboards, they could produce 10x as many Decks and still be sold out.
With their current hideous appearance, I don't think they will be sold out if they upped production by 50%.
And I think very few people buy because they like the font. They buy because they like the quality, and they put up with the font.
I wonder why Deck doesn't listen to their customer feedback. They probably lost thousands of sales all these years because of FONT.
Something that can be easily prevented if they just do a tiny bit of market research.
considering their previous releases were pretty much sold out, im sure there's some who like the font?
as mean as this sounds, what's your point?
they sell out, they sell out their stock
they get their sales, they don't have to pay for new legend fees.
win/win from a business standpoint.
There's also no guarantee they'd increase sales if they changed the font.
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Sorry if I'm missing something, but why would I want to buy a Deck board when I can buy a Ducky S3 for $40 cheaper?
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Sorry if I'm missing something, but why would I want to buy a Deck board when I can buy a Ducky S3 for $40 cheaper?
Dyesub backlit PBT. Ducky cried and said making non-backlit PBT was too hard so who knows when/if the Shine will have them.
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-POST DELETED-
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I have not seen any picture of the keyboard from the side, but apart from the ugly font the keyboard looks like any other keyboard from Ducky or a Costar OEM.
I think they could have designed a new case like WASD did for their WASD v2/Code.
Also, there are a few tiny design elements of these keyboard layouts/cases (Ducky, Costar, ...) that irk me: Front and back borders wider than the side borders. 1/4 key spacing between F12 and PrtScr but 1/2 key spacing between F8 and F9.
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Personally I find the designs to be atrocious, from form factor to font, but hey, at least it's memorable! Seriously, more and more models being developed that look like replicas of older boards. Like an Alfa-Romeo...
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Sorry if I'm missing something, but why would I want to buy a Deck board when I can buy a Ducky S3 for $40 cheaper?
Because dante told you so.
Actually there's hardly any reason, unless you really care about double-shot PBT backlit caps. Most people are fine with normal PBT caps, and Vortex is rolling something out, but dante is a rabid Deck diehard, here are some of his quotes when I complained about their font;
Hassium is element 108, and Francium is element 87. The boards are supposed to be well built and sturdy, about the same as Filco, I'd surmise. IMSTO caps will definitely be better, but that's true for anything. Honestly, the Vortex keycaps are much better in my opinion, and they've got designs of double-shot PBT backlight-friendly keys on the way, with a less disgusting font. I just think that you'd hate looking at it, and if you're going to replace the keycaps there is no reason to get this board, considering that they aren't even offering Clears or Reds on their boards (reference their recently started thread) and Filcos are definitely on par with quality and not nearly as overpriced.
This is so biased I don't even know where to begin.
Do you own either the Francium/Hassium that is being released out of the US? It's supposed to have much better keycaps than the one out of Asia. And since it's not released yet I'm curious how you can judge it being better/worse than others?
Vortex can eat a bag of ****s. In the early days they screwed iMav several times, are terrible at communication, and have generally poor product. One of their first keysets had a key that was incorrect (backslash pipe.) Who the F*** does that? As far as upcoming double shot set - who cares.
Finally, Filco is "definitely on par with quality and not nearly as over priced." Again, do you own a Francium/Hassium to judge? And why aren't you complaining that the Filco doesn't have Clears since it was your complaint about the Deck?
The more I read your post the more I think you are trolling or you work/sell for Vortex.
Yes the font isn't what you hoped for - boo hoo - go be butt hurt somewhere else.
One can only wonder why Deck seems to not want people to buy from their company by keeping the font so ugly.
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Because dante told you so.
Actually there's hardly any reason, unless you really care about double-shot PBT backlit caps. Most people are fine with normal PBT caps, and Vortex is rolling something out, but dante is a rabid Deck diehard, here are some of his quotes when I complained about their font;
I chimed in because you were spreading BS.
You claimed the board was over $200: It is not.
You claimed the keyboard uses thin keycaps: Still waiting for proof.
Don't like the font? Complain all you like! :D But stop acting like a Vortex sales person by spreading lies.
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Like Unicomp, they made their business decisions. They chose not to take the financial risk of paying for new legend fees. So they get the sales they get.
Just like Unicomp, not willing to take the financial risk of producing an SSK, so they don't get to sell their SSKs.
CoolerMaster doesn't have such qualms, so they're getting all the sales they want.
Judging from the fact that CM and Ducky are producing lots of new and innovative lines of keyboards every year, they can't be losing money, or they would be pulling out of this business.
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as mean as this sounds, what's your point?
they sell out, they sell out their stock
they get their sales, they don't have to pay for new legend fees.
win/win from a business standpoint.
There's also no guarantee they'd increase sales if they changed the font.
[/quote]
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Like Unicomp, they made their business decisions. They chose not to take the financial risk of paying for new legend fees. So they get the sales they get.
Just like Unicomp, not willing to take the financial risk of producing an SSK, so they don't get to sell their SSKs.
CoolerMaster doesn't have such qualms, so they're getting all the sales they want.
Judging from the fact that CM and Ducky are producing lots of new and innovative lines of keyboards every year, they can't be losing money, or they would be pulling out of this business.
as mean as this sounds, what's your point?
they sell out, they sell out their stock
they get their sales, they don't have to pay for new legend fees.
win/win from a business standpoint.
There's also no guarantee they'd increase sales if they changed the font.
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same with deck, if they were losing $$ they'd be pulling out of this business.
also CM's only been in this business for what, 2 years?
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Like Unicomp, they made their business decisions. They chose not to take the financial risk of paying for new legend fees. So they get the sales they get.
Just like Unicomp, not willing to take the financial risk of producing an SSK, so they don't get to sell their SSKs.
CoolerMaster doesn't have such qualms, so they're getting all the sales they want.
Judging from the fact that CM and Ducky are producing lots of new and innovative lines of keyboards every year, they can't be losing money, or they would be pulling out of this business.
as mean as this sounds, what's your point?
they sell out, they sell out their stock
they get their sales, they don't have to pay for new legend fees.
win/win from a business standpoint.
There's also no guarantee they'd increase sales if they changed the font.
This makes a lot of sense to me. It's not ever about the consumers, especially when they're the source of the company's money. It's just incredibly stupid that Deck never even admits to a whisper of distaste about their font, and two or three employees or paid customers, dante for one, feel the need to harp on about how wonderful they are.
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Like Unicomp, they made their business decisions. They chose not to take the financial risk of paying for new legend fees. So they get the sales they get.
Just like Unicomp, not willing to take the financial risk of producing an SSK, so they don't get to sell their SSKs.
CoolerMaster doesn't have such qualms, so they're getting all the sales they want.
Judging from the fact that CM and Ducky are producing lots of new and innovative lines of keyboards every year, they can't be losing money, or they would be pulling out of this business.
as mean as this sounds, what's your point?
they sell out, they sell out their stock
they get their sales, they don't have to pay for new legend fees.
win/win from a business standpoint.
There's also no guarantee they'd increase sales if they changed the font.
This makes a lot of sense to me. It's not ever about the consumers, especially when they're the source of the company's money. It's just incredibly stupid that Deck never even admits to a whisper of distaste about their font, and two or three employees or paid customers, dante for one, feel the need to harp on about how wonderful they are.
what exactly is bad about their keyboard?
Are they built poorly? This isn't my experience when i tried out a deck.
I don't own a deck, i've played around with one, they were also one of the few people who offered MX Clears with their previous gen keyboards.
Are you basing the fact they're "bad" because of the font? I mean seriously their keyboards are bad because of the font on the keycaps?
Diff manufactures have diff features. Some people consider Filco's overrated because they're just plain, i myself find my Filco boards are built better than my Ducky and my old CM QF Rapid.
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projectD, as you can see, I don't imply anything at all about their keyboards besides font.
"never even admits to a whisper of distaste about their font", is all I said. Otherwise I'm sure that their build quality is great, but it doesn't speak well to me that a company is unable to listen to customer concerns, especially one which nearly every person who has seen a Deck has commented on.
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projectD, as you can see, I don't imply anything at all about their keyboards besides font.
"never even admits to a whisper of distaste about their font", is all I said. Otherwise I'm sure that their build quality is great, but it doesn't speak well to me that a company is unable to listen to customer concerns, especially one which nearly every person who has seen a Deck has commented on.
this goes back to how the vocal minority somehow is the majority.
If there was such a disdain for the keyboard, they wouldn't pretty much sell out their stock
Before the site relaunch, if i recall correctly pretty much every deck they had was sold out.
So i mean it is what it is. We as keyboard enthusiasts sometime believe what our personal opinions and preference are the majority.
If this was the case, Razer wouldn't be selling a ton of Black Widows as im sure we on GH rip on Razer's BW constantly (which honestly the tournament edition for $70 and less isn't that bad lol)
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I suppose, there have got to be a majority who don't really care what the font is and just want some leet keyboard. But saying that everything is sold out doesn't mean much, because their volume is undoubtedly orders of magnitude lesser than that of Ducky, CM, and Razer.
Razer actually offered a decent product at a reasonable price, I can see why the BW is popular.
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That's right.
Razer makes the best keyboards in the world, and Geekhackers (who are vocal anti-Razers), are in the small minority. :p
Topre? Is garbage. That's why Razer outsells Topre 100:1 or more.
Model F? Not even trash. That's why it's out of production. Trash is never out of production.
Ergodoxes must be the worst keyboards in history, since with barely 1000 in existence, they are probably outnumbered 1 MILLION to 1 by rubber domes.
Conclusion: the people on this forum know nothing about real keyboards.
projectD, as you can see, I don't imply anything at all about their keyboards besides font.
"never even admits to a whisper of distaste about their font", is all I said. Otherwise I'm sure that their build quality is great, but it doesn't speak well to me that a company is unable to listen to customer concerns, especially one which nearly every person who has seen a Deck has commented on.
this goes back to how the vocal minority somehow is the majority.
If there was such a disdain for the keyboard, they wouldn't pretty much sell out their stock
Before the site relaunch, if i recall correctly pretty much every deck they had was sold out.
So i mean it is what it is. We as keyboard enthusiasts sometime believe what our personal opinions and preference are the majority.
If this was the case, Razer wouldn't be selling a ton of Black Widows as im sure we on GH rip on Razer's BW constantly (which honestly the tournament edition for $70 and less isn't that bad lol)
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I think y'all need to chill out a bit. :P
Busy most of the day so I missed this thread but I feel to participate so here it is in reverse order:
projectD, as you can see, I don't imply anything at all about their keyboards besides font.
"never even admits to a whisper of distaste about their font", is all I said. Otherwise I'm sure that their build quality is great, but it doesn't speak well to me that a company is unable to listen to customer concerns, especially one which nearly every person who has seen a Deck has commented on.
We have made this point about their font to Deck, several times. As you know, Deck's background with their parent company (TG3) is industrial manufacturing. They don't have a wealth of experience making products for consumers and, until recently, haven't frankly had that much interest. This is reflected in their products. Good materials and construction, but not aesthetically pleasing. The font used on much of Deck's keyboards may seem ugly but they are also very easy to differentiate. When you consider this for an industrial stand-point, why this would be a plus and not a downside is, imo, pretty obvious. You're also not likely to lose those sorts of orders over "ugly font" either.
Deck has told us that because of the way Double-Shot PBT key caps are manufactured, changing the font is a non-trivial process and requires physically retooling which doesn't come cheaply. Obviously they cannot do this without some sort of guarantee of ROI, and we, in the relatively small market 'down-under', can hardly give them such an undertaking by ourselves. Having said that though, we do have some alternative plans for Deck products sold here, it's not going to please everyone but hopefully it'll help those put off by the font to consider the keyboard again. I'll have more to say when our shipment of Hassium Pro actually lands in Australia. (Yes, this is the one shown in Deck's video and is different from existing Hassiums that are sold by us).
<snip>
This makes a lot of sense to me. It's not ever about the consumers, especially when they're the source of the company's money. It's just incredibly stupid that Deck never even admits to a whisper of distaste about their font, and two or three employees or paid customers, dante for one, feel the need to harp on about how wonderful they are.
Deck listens to their customers and get paid plenty by them, it's just that until recently, they haven't really viewed you or me as their main customers. As I said, they do large production runs for other applications and they didn't see the need to change their practices for, what amounts to, a tiny percentage of their business. But we are trying very hard to change that and I'm happy to say we have good support from the higher levels of Deck to do this and they really want to push into the consumer market. It's a learning process, ingrained practices don't change overnight. Until then, feedback like this thread is helpful. Sometimes what we tell them is so far removed from their perception of consumers that they have a hard time believing us, so we can always point them to something like this. :thumb:
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I chimed in because you were spreading BS.
You claimed the board was over $200: It is not.
You claimed the keyboard uses thin keycaps: Still waiting for proof.
Don't like the font? Complain all you like! :D But stop acting like a Vortex sales person by spreading lies.
You may be confused over the RRP, when Deck Hassiums first landed in Australia, the nearest comparison point for prices was a Korean store on eBay that was selling them for roughly ~AU$200, so many stores listed them as "Don't pay $200!", this is not and has never been their RRP.
As for thin PBT, you might be waiting for proof for a long time :P. AFAIK, all Deck Hassiums currently being sold use Double-Shot Thick PBT. You can look at our pictures here: http://mechkb.tumblr.com/post/59664045773/our-stock-of-deck-hassiums-are-genuine-pbt-doubleshot (http://mechkb.tumblr.com/post/59664045773/our-stock-of-deck-hassiums-are-genuine-pbt-doubleshot) and decide for yourself.
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Because dante told you so.
Actually there's hardly any reason, unless you really care about double-shot PBT backlit caps. Most people are fine with normal PBT caps, and Vortex is rolling something out, but dante is a rabid Deck diehard, here are some of his quotes when I complained about their font;
<snip>
Let's see when Vortex rolls this something out. Anyone who's done business with Vortex will know what I mean. ;)
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I admit the font is different, but when I read that they are doubleshot PBT backlight-friendly, this is like the only such set that exists anywhere, right?
MechKB's comments aside, maybe they made the legends like this to ensure that the double-shotting didn't obscure the legends in any way (as might happen with thinner font), and to ensure that the backlight shines through correctly.
At least the legends are fairly consistent across the board - unlike a certain other PBT DS keycap maker (cough Vortex cough).
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I'm just gonna throw this in here. :P
(http://i.imgur.com/R43U3bG.jpg?1)
Déck Legend with alpha keys from a TG3 board.
Still not quite as fancy as some of the other fonts out there but it looks a whole lot more sleek like this.
The main reason why TG3 could be differentiating between their business boards and consumer line (Déck) is that there is a huge difference in price and they are afraid to lose that profit margin.
EDIT: But mine are the old style PBT doubleshots as seen here:
(http://i.imgur.com/ioTLX3E.jpg)
So if Déck really has PBT doubleshots in a way as shown in MechKB's post then yes, that is worth the $40 premium.
(http://media.tumblr.com/53f13bb3bd042e2bb43224498b4d2050/tumblr_inline_ms9zcyT2Vo1qz4rgp.jpg)
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That's right.
Razer makes the best keyboards in the world, and Geekhackers (who are vocal anti-Razers), are in the small minority. :p
Topre? Is garbage. That's why Razer outsells Topre 100:1 or more.
Model F? Not even trash. That's why it's out of production. Trash is never out of production.
Ergodoxes must be the worst keyboards in history, since with barely 1000 in existence, they are probably outnumbered 1 MILLION to 1 by rubber domes.
Conclusion: the people on this forum know nothing about real keyboards.
projectD, as you can see, I don't imply anything at all about their keyboards besides font.
"never even admits to a whisper of distaste about their font", is all I said. Otherwise I'm sure that their build quality is great, but it doesn't speak well to me that a company is unable to listen to customer concerns, especially one which nearly every person who has seen a Deck has commented on.
this goes back to how the vocal minority somehow is the majority.
If there was such a disdain for the keyboard, they wouldn't pretty much sell out their stock
Before the site relaunch, if i recall correctly pretty much every deck they had was sold out.
So i mean it is what it is. We as keyboard enthusiasts sometime believe what our personal opinions and preference are the majority.
If this was the case, Razer wouldn't be selling a ton of Black Widows as im sure we on GH rip on Razer's BW constantly (which honestly the tournament edition for $70 and less isn't that bad lol)
dunno if you're trolling or not, but we on GH are the minority of the market that'll buy keyboards
1000 ergodoxs sold is a drop in the bucket compared to how many Logitech G15s were sold.
We are passionate about our hobby sure, but lets not kid ourselves that our small community will be a driving force in sales.
If this was the case, we wouldn't ever have problems hitting GMK's 400 MOQ requirements on keycaps.
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I'm not sure which font I like less, Razer's or Deck's. While Deck's font looks amateurish to me, Razer's is overly edgy to the point of almost being unintelligible. I guess if I had to choose, Deck's strikes me as the lesser of two evils.
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MechKB, I loved your post. It was very informative and helpful!
Do you think you can give feedback to Deck suggesting they consider Futura 14?
Futura is what Filco uses, and it is very attractive, professional, and has proven to be successful. They use small sizes like 7 and 9, but if Deck uses a big size like 14 or 16, that should take up most of the space on the keycap top and should be very visible in an industrial setting.
If you say Deck does large production runs for commercial customers, then there is no reason to avoid using a font that Filco uses in banks and offices.
Another way Deck can recoup its costs, is by selling the keycaps. There are no companies doing PBT doubleshots, so if Deck produced extra keycaps, it should have no competition.
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Another way Deck can recoup its costs, is by selling the keycaps. There are no companies doing PBT doubleshots, so if Deck produced extra keycaps, it should have no competition.
As much as I agree with you...
I suspect the market share of keyboard customers welling to buy sets of keycaps alone is probably too low to justify it.
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Another way Deck can recoup its costs, is by selling the keycaps. There are no companies doing PBT doubleshots, so if Deck produced extra keycaps, it should have no competition.
As much as I agree with you...
I suspect the market share of keyboard customers welling to buy sets of keycaps alone is probably too low to justify it.
i agree 100%
again, there's a reason why we on GH are having such a hard time getting the 400MOQ for GMK orders.
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MechKB, I loved your post. It was very informative and helpful!
Do you think you can give feedback to Deck suggesting they consider Futura 14?
Futura is what Filco uses, and it is very attractive, professional, and has proven to be successful. They use small sizes like 7 and 9, but if Deck uses a big size like 14 or 16, that should take up most of the space on the keycap top and should be very visible in an industrial setting.
If you say Deck does large production runs for commercial customers, then there is no reason to avoid using a font that Filco uses in banks and offices.
Another way Deck can recoup its costs, is by selling the keycaps. There are no companies doing PBT doubleshots, so if Deck produced extra keycaps, it should have no competition.
Thanks berserkfan :)
As for Futura, I'll keep that in mind. We suggested Cherry Font or Helvetica to Deck. There was some resistance about using Cherry Font for various reasons. They are exploring Helvetica though.
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Deck Fonts = Butter face Keyboard :))
Didn't stop me to buy them, love them and buy some more.
When I want to make keyboard love... I just shut the light.
Crap... they are backlit... But that too can be turned off. Few.
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i agree 100%
again, there's a reason why we on GH are having such a hard time getting the 400MOQ for GMK orders.
I wouldn't say that's a demand issue per se, so much as it's a monetary reality; that our little community just doesn't have the financial wherewithal to support such things.
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They are exploring Helvetica though.
Now that would be perfect ! :cool:
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Yes, Helvetica works also. It’s clear and easy to read, and professional looking. It doesn’t look as secretarial or legal as Futura, but that should be fine since Deck has so many industrial customers.
The current font just looks clownish. It's not industrial looking at all.
MechKB, I loved your post. It was very informative and helpful!
Do you think you can give feedback to Deck suggesting they consider Futura 14?
Futura is what Filco uses, and it is very attractive, professional, and has proven to be successful. They use small sizes like 7 and 9, but if Deck uses a big size like 14 or 16, that should take up most of the space on the keycap top and should be very visible in an industrial setting.
If you say Deck does large production runs for commercial customers, then there is no reason to avoid using a font that Filco uses in banks and offices.
Another way Deck can recoup its costs, is by selling the keycaps. There are no companies doing PBT doubleshots, so if Deck produced extra keycaps, it should have no competition.
Thanks berserkfan :)
As for Futura, I'll keep that in mind. We suggested Cherry Font or Helvetica to Deck. There was some resistance about using Cherry Font for various reasons. They are exploring Helvetica though.