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geekhack Marketplace => Group Buys and Preorders => Topic started by: sherryton on Wed, 27 November 2013, 05:46:20

Title: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: sherryton on Wed, 27 November 2013, 05:46:20
Hello GeekHackers!

We have 3 group buys going on.

http://www.originativeco.com/collections/keysets/products/handarbeit
http://www.originativeco.com/collections/keysets/products/cyrllic
http://www.originativeco.com/collections/keysets/products/gmk-rgb

The MOQ pricings are available on the links.

The Tier that is highlighted in red will show where we are at in the group buy.

Tiers (MOQ)   Handarbeit (87)          Tenkeypad          Winkeyless   HHKB   Windowed       Full Set
   1 (100)                  110                          26                   26             16                 26              195
   2 (200)                  100                          23.5                23.5          15                 23.5           180
   3 (400)                    85                          18                   18             13                 18              145

Tiers (MOQ)      Cyrllic (87)          Tenkeypad          Winkeyless   HHKB        Full Set
   1 (100)                  90                          18                   18             13                 130
   2 (200)                  85                          17                   17             12                 115
   3 (400)                  75                          15                   15             10                 95

Thanks!
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: Latin00032 on Wed, 27 November 2013, 05:50:32
Dat handerbeit! Must resist!
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: Elrick on Wed, 27 November 2013, 05:57:01
Hello GeekHackers!

We have 3 group buys going on.

http://www.originativeco.com/collections/keysets-1/products/handarbeit (http://www.originativeco.com/collections/keysets-1/products/handarbeit)
http://www.originativeco.com/collections/keysets-1/products/cyrllic (http://www.originativeco.com/collections/keysets-1/products/cyrllic)
http://www.originativeco.com/collections/keysets-1/products/gmk-rgb (http://www.originativeco.com/collections/keysets-1/products/gmk-rgb)

The MOQ pricings are available on the links.

The Tier that is highlighted in red will show where we are at in the group buy.

Thanks!

Okay Sherryton, if we select the items to purchase, can we pay via Paypal please?
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: sherryton on Wed, 27 November 2013, 06:15:27
Hello GeekHackers!

We have 3 group buys going on.

http://www.originativeco.com/collections/keysets-1/products/handarbeit (http://www.originativeco.com/collections/keysets-1/products/handarbeit)
http://www.originativeco.com/collections/keysets-1/products/cyrllic (http://www.originativeco.com/collections/keysets-1/products/cyrllic)
http://www.originativeco.com/collections/keysets-1/products/gmk-rgb (http://www.originativeco.com/collections/keysets-1/products/gmk-rgb)

The MOQ pricings are available on the links.

The Tier that is highlighted in red will show where we are at in the group buy.

Thanks!

Okay Sherryton, if we select the items to purchase, can we pay via Paypal please?

Trying to get that fixed.  Bitcoin will for sure be accepted.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: Latin00032 on Wed, 27 November 2013, 07:10:43
For the Otaku key set:

Is there going to be a black dye sub option?
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: danielucf on Wed, 27 November 2013, 08:06:00
How did you manage tiers below 400? Or are you just going to be buying 400 no matter what tier we hit? Something isn't adding up.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: bueller on Wed, 27 November 2013, 08:16:38
Or are you just going to be buying 400 no matter what tier we hit?

That is my understanding, Sherry is going to make up the remaining orders to meet MOQ.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: danielucf on Wed, 27 November 2013, 08:35:48
That is my understanding, Sherry is going to make up the remaining orders to meet MOQ.


So what is the group buy getting for us then? The opportunity to get them closer to cost and skip Originative upcharge only if the group buy breaks 400 tier during the group buy phase?

Because otherwise it just looks like we'd be helping to hit 400 at an increased price so it costs someone else less to buy those 400 sets...

If he intends to buy 400+ no matter what, then those who participate should get the 400 price no matter what. Oiler doesn't charge increased prices in his group buys when he is buying extras to carry on techkeys.us (http://www.techkeys.us/)

I'll edit my post if I am wrong or misunderstanding
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: metalliqaz on Wed, 27 November 2013, 08:45:12
Yeah, I thought the same thing.  Like "Group Buy" is the wrong wording... :))
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: YongJK on Wed, 27 November 2013, 08:48:52
If he is going to make up remaining sets until 400+
That's mean he is on his own cost.
I don't see issues for him to charge more.
Frankly speaking, no one wants their money "invested" with a long ROI.
Just my personal opinion.

Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: bueller on Wed, 27 November 2013, 08:49:09
If he intends to buy 400+ no matter what, then those who participate should get the 400 price no matter what.

So if there are 150 pre-orders and Sherry needs to order another 250 to meet MOQ he should pass long the savings to everyone? The man is running a business, I don't see any problem with the way the pricing tiers are structured. Oiler doesn't charge extra because he's not buying hundreds of kits just to meet MOQ, he's buying extras to sell in his store.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: metalliqaz on Wed, 27 November 2013, 08:55:56
Absolutely nothing wrong with that at all.  It's just not a GB :)
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: danielucf on Wed, 27 November 2013, 09:09:51
If he intends to buy 400+ no matter what, then those who participate should get the 400 price no matter what.

So if there are 150 pre-orders and Sherry needs to order another 250 to meet MOQ he should pass long the savings to everyone? The man is running a business, I don't see any problem with the way the pricing tiers are structured. Oiler doesn't charge extra because he's not buying hundreds of kits just to meet MOQ, he's buying extras to sell in his store.

There is no difference except sherry is buying 250 extras instead of 50-100+. Passing on the savings is what our group buys are. If he isn't passing on the savings then it is just a regular sale that you can get in on early.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 27 November 2013, 09:13:18
It should be obvious by now we can't reach MOQ on our own of we want GMK.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: bueller on Wed, 27 November 2013, 09:16:21
If he intends to buy 400+ no matter what, then those who participate should get the 400 price no matter what.

So if there are 150 pre-orders and Sherry needs to order another 250 to meet MOQ he should pass long the savings to everyone? The man is running a business, I don't see any problem with the way the pricing tiers are structured. Oiler doesn't charge extra because he's not buying hundreds of kits just to meet MOQ, he's buying extras to sell in his store.

There is no difference except sherry is buying 250 extras instead of 50-100+. Passing on the savings is what our group buys are. If he isn't passing on the savings then it is just a regular sale that you can get in on early.

You are getting some of the savings, but only the tier that pre-orders reach.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: BunnyLake on Wed, 27 November 2013, 09:21:42
the best way to think about it is this

think of it being a tax to guarantee the set happening, the lower orders we make, the more risk sherry takes on to make up the order, the more we order, the lower his risk, and the lower his risk is the lower the tax becomes

in an ideal world it would be a flat rate price of cost of 400 sets divided by 400, but if we want that, we wont get any more gmk sets, i3oiler can offer the sets at gb cost because that benefits him, the more he sells to us prior to purchase, the cheaper the tier is for him to buy sets for himself and his store( this isnt a dig at him, its a great way of him doing things for both him and us)

sherry is running a business, the difference between the tiers is marginal, but that little bit on top of cost is the price of getting him as a business, to facilitate the service of getting these keys made, something we as a community are failing to do, right or wrong, this is currently the cost of admission, and i personally would rather have a gmk set than not have one
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: danielucf on Wed, 27 November 2013, 09:35:02
Let me put it like this with small numbers:

I want to buy 10 keyboards and I'm buying them no matter what at $10 a piece. $100 total
I offer to sell them as a group buy at $15 a piece for  up to 4, $13 a piece for up to 7, and at $11 a piece for 10+ to "reward" early adopters.
I sell only 5 of them at $15 = $75
I sell the rest of them when they all arrive at $16 since I don't want to make early buyers angry. + $80
I've sold all 10 totaling $155 instead of $110 if I had sold 10 in the "group buy".

It is also possible that I decided to order 15 instead of 10 since I made so much off of my "group buy" to subsidize the price of my other keyboards so I can make even more money.

Group buys are not to subsidize buying more of something or meeting high MOQs for less risk. A pre-sale in the vendor sub-forum would be the appropriate place for that.

In my opinion a group buy is supposed to be something that a community member wants to do for little to no gain. A couple free sets, maybe 1-5% profit if it is explained, or offered as an optional add-on like a tip.

Edit: I typed this out before BunnyLake's post
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: BunnyLake on Wed, 27 November 2013, 09:44:13
Let me put it like this with small numbers:

I want to buy 10 keyboards and I'm buying them no matter what at $10 a piece. $100 total
I offer to sell them as a group buy at $15 a piece for  up to 4, $13 a piece for up to 7, and at $11 a piece for 10+ to "reward" early adopters.
I sell only 5 of them at $15 = $75
I sell the rest of them when they all arrive at $16 since I don't want to make early buyers angry. + $80
I've sold all 10 totaling $155 instead of $110 if I had sold 10 in the "group buy".

It is also possible that I decided to order 15 instead of 10 since I made so much off of my "group buy" to subsidize the price of my other keyboards so I can make even more money.

Group buys are not to subsidize buying more of something or meeting high MOQs for less risk. A pre-sale in the vendor sub-forum would be the appropriate place for that.

In my opinion a group buy is supposed to be something that a community member wants to do for little to no gain. A couple free sets, maybe 1-5% profit if it is explained, or offered as an optional add-on like a tip.

i totally agree with what is being said, but you also have to appreciate the scale

yes perhaps presale is indeed a better word for this
what you describe is all fair and correct, however when you scale that up, it becomes more complicated, if he presells 100 but lays out the money for 300 more, he is not making up 30% as described, but 300%, there is risk, and a huge time commitment, it could take him a long time to get his money back out, and he may need to offset as much of that as possible to make it happen

once again, im not trying to argue your point as incorrect, just trying to find a way to justify this, at the end of the day, we all want the same thing, gmk sets, i would rather pay 10 dollars more than have no option to buy one in the first place

Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: IPT on Wed, 27 November 2013, 09:57:18
In a normal SP GB, daniel's point makes sense

the problem is with GMK's high MOQ, its not possible to operate the same way in a GB.
Is it really the term "Group Buy" that's bugging you?  Would you rather he just name it "presale"?
would that make you feel better then?  I mean seriously.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: danielucf on Wed, 27 November 2013, 10:45:31
i totally agree with what is being said, but you also have to appreciate the scale

yes perhaps presale is indeed a better word for this
what you describe is all fair and correct, however when you scale that up, it becomes more complicated, if he presells 100 but lays out the money for 300 more, he is not making up 30% as described, but 300%, there is risk, and a huge time commitment, it could take him a long time to get his money back out, and he may need to offset as much of that as possible to make it happen

once again, im not trying to argue your point as incorrect, just trying to find a way to justify this, at the end of the day, we all want the same thing, gmk sets, i would rather pay 10 dollars more than have no option to buy one in the first place



This just doesn't seem like the right way to do it. I know we as a community would rather have the sets available instead of not available. In the past though the Originative plan was to buy the sets no matter what so this pricing structure makes no sense. Especially forcing people to pay up front and then get a refund if a cheaper tier is "achieved" since the plan is to buy 400 anyways. The really high prices makes it seem more like a MOQ for one set that has 87 key, Numpad, Winkeyless, and HHKB keys and he is separating them out to additionally sell. That way if he can't sell 400 HHKB sets it doesn't matter because they are already paid for.

In a normal SP GB, daniel's point makes sense

the problem is with GMK's high MOQ, its not possible to operate the same way in a GB.
Is it really the term "Group Buy" that's bugging you?  Would you rather he just name it "presale"?
would that make you feel better then?  I mean seriously.

You make it sound so simple, but "group buy" has certain connotations that absolutely do not apply here.

Dolch is a simple colorway and an 87 key set sells/sold for $95 at 87 keys or $145 for all 110**. Prior to that we had classic beige at $100 for 110 keys, classic beige with blue legends at $100 for 110keys, and Charred orange at $95 for 110 keys. What changed with Dolch over the other GMK sets that came before? We know there was profit for the $95 and $100 sets since the information on what sets cost from GMK at 400, 800, and I think 1000 tiers was made available.

If Originative can sell Handarbeit at $85 for 87 keys at MOQ of 400 during the "group buy" then what price would he sell on the website for? If the "group buy" is below 200 sets then he has to sell at above $110 per 87 key set otherwise those participating in the buy will have paid more than the website price. This would be another new high above even Dolch.

This all goes out the window if new MOQs with GMK are now starting at 100 sets and growing from there....

**It is not clear exactly what the winkeyless kit comes with but it seems four 1.5x modifiers, a stepped capslock, and a 7x spacebar
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: IPT on Wed, 27 November 2013, 12:05:39
so if he named it "preorder" and sold it at these prices, then sold people afterwards whatever higher prices, you'll be ok with this?
Or are you just upset that he's making $$?
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: YongJK on Wed, 27 November 2013, 12:12:39
Who cares man, as long as the pricing is reasonable.
If it's not sherry, who is gonna do all these GMK GB?
Consider he is running business and operates store, I am absolutely fine for whatever he earns.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: gojira54 on Wed, 27 November 2013, 12:15:32
I don't like some of the legends & lack of ISO extras so won't be partaking.. good luck with the GB tho.
Pays your money takes your choice
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: LONGZILLA on Wed, 27 November 2013, 12:21:25
Is there any difference in color between the GMK RGB here and the ones over at EK?
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: Dubsgalore on Wed, 27 November 2013, 13:31:08
Sherry make the RGB sets in A profile  :-*

Handarbeit is looking nice, I wish Cryllic was in Classic Beige and not BoW, but It'll be the second of the two if i can squeeze it in to my order :p
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: danielucf on Wed, 27 November 2013, 13:41:27
so if he named it "preorder" and sold it at these prices, then sold people afterwards whatever higher prices, you'll be ok with this?
Or are you just upset that he's making $$?

What doesn't seem right is "Hey if you participate and we get 400 people you can pay less, but if you participate and we get less people up front and I still order 400 you will pay more. Those participating in the group buy to help get it closer to 400 should be rewarded with the lower price since 400 sets will be ordered no matter what, this would actually make more people sign up sooner and balance the risk.

On top of these sets costing considerably more than previous sets for no obvious reason. I have my suspicions that Dolch, etc. cost more to subsidize more keys and make sure they get paid for, and then when they actually sell it is all profit. As if I were selling you an 87 key set for the price of a 110 key set, then I turn and sell the numpad keys and winkeyless keys separately.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: kenmai9 on Wed, 27 November 2013, 13:44:58
Sherry make the RGB sets in A profile  :-*

What does that mean? What profile are EK's?
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: ideus on Wed, 27 November 2013, 13:46:56
so if he named it "preorder" and sold it at these prices, then sold people afterwards whatever higher prices, you'll be ok with this?
Or are you just upset that he's making $$?

What doesn't seem right is "Hey if you participate and we get 400 people you can pay less, but if you participate and we get less people up front and I still order 400 you will pay more. Those participating in the group buy to help get it closer to 400 should be rewarded with the lower price since 400 sets will be ordered no matter what, this would actually make more people sign up sooner and balance the risk.

On top of these sets costing considerably more than previous sets for no obvious reason. I have my suspicions that Dolch, etc. cost more to subsidize more keys and make sure they get paid for, and then when they actually sell it is all profit. As if I were selling you an 87 key set for the price of a 110 key set, then I turn and sell the numpad keys and winkeyless keys separately.


it appears that you just "realized" that Originative is a business...
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: danielucf on Wed, 27 November 2013, 14:36:45
so if he named it "preorder" and sold it at these prices, then sold people afterwards whatever higher prices, you'll be ok with this?
Or are you just upset that he's making $$?

What doesn't seem right is "Hey if you participate and we get 400 people you can pay less, but if you participate and we get less people up front and I still order 400 you will pay more. Those participating in the group buy to help get it closer to 400 should be rewarded with the lower price since 400 sets will be ordered no matter what, this would actually make more people sign up sooner and balance the risk.

On top of these sets costing considerably more than previous sets for no obvious reason. I have my suspicions that Dolch, etc. cost more to subsidize more keys and make sure they get paid for, and then when they actually sell it is all profit. As if I were selling you an 87 key set for the price of a 110 key set, then I turn and sell the numpad keys and winkeyless keys separately.


it appears that you just "realized" that Originative is a business...

Most businesses don't charge you for something, not give it to you, and then sell it to you as an add on since you wanted it in the first place.

Unless this is an acceptable business model change:
Old Charred orange set (consisted of 87 keyset, numpad, and winkeyless keys) 110 keys total $95
New Charred orange set 87 keys $95, numpad 17 keys $25, winkeyless 6 keys $25 - total 110 keys $145 but now you don't have to buy things you don't want........

If this is where GMK buys through Originative are heading then count me out. I don't want to pay about 52% more money for essentially the same item as before. Don't swallow this pill just because "he is running a business and assuming risk". He will sell out all keys eventually and was already making around 20-25% profit selling at $95. Not much risk there meaning he would only have to sell around 300-320 out of 400 sets to break even at the $95 dollar price

ಠ_ಠ
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: IPT on Wed, 27 November 2013, 14:38:53
so if he named it "preorder" and sold it at these prices, then sold people afterwards whatever higher prices, you'll be ok with this?
Or are you just upset that he's making $$?

What doesn't seem right is "Hey if you participate and we get 400 people you can pay less, but if you participate and we get less people up front and I still order 400 you will pay more. Those participating in the group buy to help get it closer to 400 should be rewarded with the lower price since 400 sets will be ordered no matter what, this would actually make more people sign up sooner and balance the risk.

On top of these sets costing considerably more than previous sets for no obvious reason. I have my suspicions that Dolch, etc. cost more to subsidize more keys and make sure they get paid for, and then when they actually sell it is all profit. As if I were selling you an 87 key set for the price of a 110 key set, then I turn and sell the numpad keys and winkeyless keys separately.

You will pay more but you'll get the keys
as oppose to "you won't pay more, and you won't get the keys"
look at how Ivan's tried to run GMK GBs.
How frustrating its been to get to the MOQ.

You bring up Boiler's method of buying, I haven't seen Boiler try to get any sets from GMK yet.
With the difficulty in hitting the 400 MOQ for GMK, i honestly don't see a problem with how Originative is trying to run this GB.

He's basically saying "look, if we hit that 400MOQ, great everyone gets cheaper caps.  If we stall out around 200 orders, i'll still order up to 400 and you'll pay the slightly higher cost to offset me sitting on stock for a long time to get my $$ back"

If you want the rare caps, you have to find ways to get them.  Until someone on GH can run a successful 400MOQ order from GMK, I see this as the only option for a vender to front the cost up front in exchange for profit down the road.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: danielucf on Wed, 27 November 2013, 14:41:45
Until someone on GH can run a successful 400MOQ order from GMK, I see this as the only option for a vender to front the cost up front in exchange for profit down the road.

If we were not trying to cater to 5-10% of the community that wanted language packs and/or iso keys just as Originative has done, then we probably would have had two successful GMK buys under our belt as a community throughout 2013.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: IPT on Wed, 27 November 2013, 14:51:12
Until someone on GH can run a successful 400MOQ order from GMK, I see this as the only option for a vender to front the cost up front in exchange for profit down the road.

If we were not trying to cater to 5-10% of the community that wanted language packs and/or iso keys just as Originative has done, then we probably would have had two successful GMK buys under our belt as a community throughout 2013.

considering the GB organizer is the one who wants the language pack and what not, this is difficult to do.
Unless someone else steps up to do it.  Not to mention how many GBs have over 400 orders?
I haven't seen a full keycap GB even with SP that went over 400 order recently.

Just a quick search, raindrop had 162 alphas ordered, Lily in the GB had over 75 sets ordered, maybe boiler ordered to 100 sets.  Same with Turtle Power.
Klaxon had 150+ RoW Base sets and 50+ WoR, but RoW didn't hit 200+ and WoR didn't hit 100+, Valentine had around 100 sets, Cherry Replicas i don't think were pass 300 total.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: danielucf on Wed, 27 November 2013, 14:54:49
Until someone on GH can run a successful 400MOQ order from GMK, I see this as the only option for a vender to front the cost up front in exchange for profit down the road.

If we were not trying to cater to 5-10% of the community that wanted language packs and/or iso keys just as Originative has done, then we probably would have had two successful GMK buys under our belt as a community throughout 2013.

considering the GB organizer is the one who wants the language pack and what not, this is difficult to do.
Unless someone else steps up to do it.  Not to mention how many GBs have over 400 orders?
I haven't seen a full keycap GB even with SP that went over 400 order recently.

Just a quick search, raindrop had 162 alphas ordered, Lily in the GB had over 75 sets ordered, maybe boiler ordered to 100 sets.  Same with Turtle Power.
Klaxon had 150+ RoW Base sets and 50+ WoR, but RoW didn't hit 200+ and WoR didn't hit 100+, Valentine had around 100 sets, Cherry Replicas i don't think were pass 300 total.


You have not looked at Toxic have you. Over 600 of the base set and 500 of the modifiers. Yes those numbers will drop off a bit because of people falling out of interest in keyboards, but it will also pick up some last second orders as well. If it wasn't for the unique color we want to run we would have done it through GMK already. It can be done with patience and a 4-6 month group buy, or possibly a one month MassDrop.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: IPT on Wed, 27 November 2013, 15:01:33
Until someone on GH can run a successful 400MOQ order from GMK, I see this as the only option for a vender to front the cost up front in exchange for profit down the road.

If we were not trying to cater to 5-10% of the community that wanted language packs and/or iso keys just as Originative has done, then we probably would have had two successful GMK buys under our belt as a community throughout 2013.

considering the GB organizer is the one who wants the language pack and what not, this is difficult to do.
Unless someone else steps up to do it.  Not to mention how many GBs have over 400 orders?
I haven't seen a full keycap GB even with SP that went over 400 order recently.

Just a quick search, raindrop had 162 alphas ordered, Lily in the GB had over 75 sets ordered, maybe boiler ordered to 100 sets.  Same with Turtle Power.
Klaxon had 150+ RoW Base sets and 50+ WoR, but RoW didn't hit 200+ and WoR didn't hit 100+, Valentine had around 100 sets, Cherry Replicas i don't think were pass 300 total.


You have not looked at Toxic have you. Over 600 of the base set and 500 of the modifiers. Yes those numbers will drop off a bit because of people falling out of interest in keyboards, but it will also pick up some last second orders as well. If it wasn't for the unique color we want to run we would have done it through GMK already. It can be done with patience and a 4-6 month group buy, or possibly a one month MassDrop.
I listed those that were completed.
I have looked at toxic, i originally placed an order with you a while ago, but saw the color wasn't what I was expecting (i liked a more lime green than the yellow the sample keys came in) so i cancelled my order.

no offense, but of all the orders placed on your Toxic GB, how many do you think are still in and how many possibly have dropped out?
You're going on close to 1 year on your GB, how many of those orders are from people who still even come to GH?
Until your order is placed and in production, your GB imo is a little further along in the IC phase.

But if you're able to hit that over 400 MOQ on the purchase, that's more power to ya and hopefully that'll signal more great keysets to come.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Wed, 27 November 2013, 15:15:18
It's a lot easier to get high order amount when cheap price... if GMK price was like Tai Hao we probably would be doing like 1000 set orders. From my perspective, the biggest problem is people simply put off by the cost of GMK keys first, then after this complain about what key selection is available whether it be complain too many keys, or lack of particular ones for their desire.
You have two distinct groups that need to be catered to on as much balance as is possible. First group is ones that want basic keyset for cheap price. Second is people that want more 'specialized' sets with winkeyless, other language keys, etc. You need both those groups to make such high MOQ success I think.
The only other way to make it work right now is going with the knowledge that you are not going to reach the MOQ, and using higher tiered pricing to subsidize the extra sets that have to be ordered to make them at all.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: danielucf on Wed, 27 November 2013, 15:37:21
It's a lot easier to get high order amount when cheap price... if GMK price was like Tai Hao we probably would be doing like 1000 set orders. From my perspective, the biggest problem is people simply put off by the cost of GMK keys first, then after this complain about what key selection is available whether it be complain too many keys, or lack of particular ones for their desire.
You have two distinct groups that need to be catered to on as much balance as is possible. First group is ones that want basic keyset for cheap price. Second is people that want more 'specialized' sets with winkeyless, other language keys, etc. You need both those groups to make such high MOQ success I think.
The only other way to make it work right now is going with the knowledge that you are not going to reach the MOQ, and using higher tiered pricing to subsidize the extra sets that have to be ordered to make them at all.

Right, but we as a community at geekhack have not had a regular 110 + generic iso group buy yet and jumped straight into trying to support way too many extra keys, split into too many sets, trying to support multiple languages. If we just do a 115 set (assuming generic iso is 4 or 5 keys) I think we wouldn't have a problem hitting 400 MOQ at around $90 a set before shipping, especially once people see the new prices from Originative where 110 key sets are $145  >:D
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: MOZ on Wed, 27 November 2013, 15:43:05
For GMK, I truly believe in going for complete ~120 key sets which have 1.25/1.5/Short Right shift+Fn/ISO, to save on sorting and get the best price possible. This would also mean better resale as one has the complete set.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Wed, 27 November 2013, 15:50:49
Europeans don't want some half assed **** is the big problem there. ISO is not the same thing as German, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Norwegian, Swedish/Finnish, etc. From my conversations with many of those users they are not at all interested in US ISO layout sets and don't wish to buy them. Just as when you can often find German doubleshot set for cheap on old G80, many US ANSI user won't buy that even if you could get a blank 1.5 key to stand in for the \|, and enter and 2.25 shift for their ANSI board.
Personally I don't understand why the hell every layout has totally different placement on things for NO REASON but that is what the idiots on their standards committees decided on back decades ago and it's very hard to do anything about that now since people are 'used to it'.
It would have been a lot simpler if all the shared alphas, and punctuations were on the same damn numerics at the least so only few character on each were needed but no that's too easy.
It's what I originally proposed on the base generic set with numbers only numeric row but it seemed the majority didn't like that idea at all so I changed it... but not everyone liked that either.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: MOZ on Wed, 27 November 2013, 16:02:44
I mentioned this in your thread as well, I think a Full 104 set + Language pack would be the same as getting the different packs right now for given language.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: ideus on Wed, 27 November 2013, 16:38:50
so if he named it "preorder" and sold it at these prices, then sold people afterwards whatever higher prices, you'll be ok with this?
Or are you just upset that he's making $$?

What doesn't seem right is "Hey if you participate and we get 400 people you can pay less, but if you participate and we get less people up front and I still order 400 you will pay more. Those participating in the group buy to help get it closer to 400 should be rewarded with the lower price since 400 sets will be ordered no matter what, this would actually make more people sign up sooner and balance the risk.

On top of these sets costing considerably more than previous sets for no obvious reason. I have my suspicions that Dolch, etc. cost more to subsidize more keys and make sure they get paid for, and then when they actually sell it is all profit. As if I were selling you an 87 key set for the price of a 110 key set, then I turn and sell the numpad keys and winkeyless keys separately.


it appears that you just "realized" that Originative is a business...

Most businesses don't charge you for something, not give it to you, and then sell it to you as an add on since you wanted it in the first place.

Unless this is an acceptable business model change:
Old Charred orange set (consisted of 87 keyset, numpad, and winkeyless keys) 110 keys total $95
New Charred orange set 87 keys $95, numpad 17 keys $25, winkeyless 6 keys $25 - total 110 keys $145 but now you don't have to buy things you don't want........

If this is where GMK buys through Originative are heading then count me out. I don't want to pay about 52% more money for essentially the same item as before. Don't swallow this pill just because "he is running a business and assuming risk". He will sell out all keys eventually and was already making around 20-25% profit selling at $95. Not much risk there meaning he would only have to sell around 300-320 out of 400 sets to break even at the $95 dollar price

ಠ_ಠ


You have a point on that. Problem is many GHers are jumping into the "offer", what can we do against that? To be senseless is an illness very hard to treat. Haha!
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: ideus on Wed, 27 November 2013, 16:45:16
Europeans don't want some half assed **** is the big problem there. ISO is not the same thing as German, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Norwegian, Swedish/Finnish, etc. From my conversations with many of those users they are not at all interested in US ISO layout sets and don't wish to buy them. Just as when you can often find German doubleshot set for cheap on old G80, many US ANSI user won't buy that even if you could get a blank 1.5 key to stand in for the \|, and enter and 2.25 shift for their ANSI board.
Personally I don't understand why the hell every layout has totally different placement on things for NO REASON but that is what the idiots on their standards committees decided on back decades ago and it's very hard to do anything about that now since people are 'used to it'.
It would have been a lot simpler if all the shared alphas, and punctuations were on the same damn numerics at the least so only few character on each were needed but no that's too easy.
It's what I originally proposed on the base generic set with numbers only numeric row but it seemed the majority didn't like that idea at all so I changed it... but not everyone liked that either.


I write in two different languages besides English and I always use US international as a setting, thus, what I only need is and AltGr mod keycap. I do not see the point to stick to a custom language keyboard and having all the issues that come when trying to replace a set of caps.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: bazemk1979 on Wed, 27 November 2013, 19:19:18
Until someone on GH can run a successful 400MOQ order from GMK, I see this as the only option for a vender to front the cost up front in exchange for profit down the road.

If we were not trying to cater to 5-10% of the community that wanted language packs and/or iso keys just as Originative has done, then we probably would have had two successful GMK buys under our belt as a community throughout 2013.
ISO was fine, we have bunch of ANSI & ISO English users, I'm speaking of the ISO + 3 or 4 keys  that comes with it. As for the language packs was a failure from the get go, all languages barely reached 15 orders, yea 3-4 peeps made noise and language packs were considered and I'm fine with it because they are separate from the ANSI set.

Now what really messed up the GB is all the extra bling keys, and I'm not speaking of the ISO enter + 3 keys, I'm speaking of all other keys that 5-6 peeps were saying well I want CTRL instead of caps, or windowed caps or Alt Gr and what not else.... So all of this brought prices to $170 shipped for  complete set ANSI/ISO US/GB set.... I spoke and said this is not right, but 4-5 peeps and Ivan said either we have all the bling keys or no GB, and we saw the outcome of the GB..... down the drain.

Not to bash any GB organizer, but do the GB participants know that cost for 2 tone retro style color for GMK 104 set is around $50-$60.... can't speak of the Handerbeit price, its multicolored and I'm sure must cost good 10%-15% more than the standard 2 tone retro.

What I don't understand about Sherry's GB now is why you do your GB trough your store and making people pay the premium price from the get go?  I mean whats the point of the headache if we reach MOQ of 400? He have to start refunding everybody after that..... This business approach gets people turned off since its a GB but its not collecting votes, but collecting premium pre purchase prices.....  Don't make me pay premium while GB is going to last till mid January.... I hate locking my money into something that will take up to 4 months and I don't know what will the final cost of it.

Why don't you just get GB votes going instead charging our debit/credit cards that is yet to happen + we don't know the final pricing.... whats the point of holding peoples money and then end up refunding bunch of them....

Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: botay46 on Wed, 27 November 2013, 20:31:36
thank you danielucf  :))
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: danielucf on Wed, 27 November 2013, 20:44:41
It would make more sense to charge the cheapest price, with the understanding that an additional payment for a higher price may be required in the future.

A little bit more information and insight into the pricing would go a LONG way with this "group buy" presale or what ever you want to call it. If there is no funny business going on then it shouldn't be a problem to explain how everything works, and why prices skyrocketed from the earlier sets and then to Dolch and now these newer sets. We all know that a nice pair of sunglasses costs most manufacturers a couple dollars but that doesn't stop us from shelling out $100+ to get those name brand glasses.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: bazemk1979 on Wed, 27 November 2013, 21:50:28
Its still a no go Daniel even if he charges the minimum.... lets say we only reach 100 MOQ, then he will need to send most likely paypal invoices so we can pay the difference. Its like going back and forth, He should open GB as every other one with votes, explain the price tiers and people will join in hope to reach at least the 200 tiers, 400 is far fetch with this set cause of the color combos.

As for the price increase, why you asking question when you know the answer to it.... its all about making money, once again 2 tone GMK full set cost around $50-$60, even Ivan prices are little fishy....
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: danielucf on Wed, 27 November 2013, 22:15:25
As for the price increase, why you asking question when you know the answer to it.... its all about making money, once again 2 tone GMK full set cost around $50-$60, even Ivan prices are little fishy....

I thought 400 tier 110 sets were around $78. I could be remembering wrong. It is buried somewhere in the Cherry set interest check thread.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: bueller on Wed, 27 November 2013, 22:26:25
I think you guys are being a bit silly to be honest, from the sounds of things you just want Sherry to open up his books so that you can approve of how much money he's making. If you're not interested at the pricing tiers offered then no one is forcing you.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: bazemk1979 on Wed, 27 November 2013, 22:54:34
Bueller you don't read up much do you? Its not a GB if you pay the premium price for the item on engaging the GB. It should be only joining not charging ur card at get go, why he needs the money a month and a half in advance?........
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: bueller on Wed, 27 November 2013, 23:12:47
Bueller you don't read up much do you?

How very condescending of you, I've read the whole thread thanks.

Its not a GB if you pay the premium price for the item on engaging the GB.

GB's take many different shapes and forms, if you don't agree with the terms or pricing then don't participate.

why he needs the money a month and a half in advance?........

Probably to guarantee people are actually serious about ordering? I have no problem with paying up front and getting a refund later when he figures out how many orders he's making up to meet MOQ. He's put a lot of time and effort into bringing us GMK sets and people do nothing but piss and moan about how he does business. Making comparisons to previous set pricings is pretty silly IMO, for all we know he could have looked over the books for the previous year and realised that he wasn't doing good business. Does that mean he needs to come in here and justify how his pricing is worked out? That is asking for too much transparency in my opinion.

Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: ninjadoc on Wed, 27 November 2013, 23:13:23
How did you manage tiers below 400? Or are you just going to be buying 400 no matter what tier we hit? Something isn't adding up.

He is running a business. If you run a business you usually either want a profit or to at least break even. The only way GMK will sell product is with a 400 MOQ. He is passing on the savings that we create by making it to a certain number of sets. He then takes the risk of purchasing whatever is required after that to reach the MOQ of 400. If you assume we purchase enough for 150 full sets and he has to buy 250 full sets it is $50,000 that he is betting that he can sell give or take $5000 or so. I can't begrudge the man for at least trying to make some money out of his risk. I don't have 50K lying around to bet on me making a few dollars but if you do that's great.
I for one don't care what he calls it - group buy, preorder, a chance to buy GMK keys, the opportunity for Originative to be in the black - it doesn't matter. It has been hard to impossible for Geekhack or Deskthority to meet GMK's MOQ's and us to have an opportunity to purchase a GMK keyset.
If you don't like it - don't buy it. Or if you have a problem with Sherry, take it up with him. Let's not clog up his thread with semantics of what exactly this is.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: demik on Wed, 27 November 2013, 23:15:13
i also like to complain while i sit on my throne and do nothing
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 27 November 2013, 23:16:03
Bueller you don't read up much do you? Its not a GB if you pay the premium price for the item on engaging the GB. It should be only joining not charging ur card at get go, why he needs the money a month and a half in advance?........

Bueller you don't read up much do you? Its not a GB if you pay the premium price for the item on engaging the GB. It should be only joining not charging ur card at get go, why he needs the money a month and a half in advance?........

Honestly charging up front in a group buy isn't a bad idea, it secures orders and weeds out the deadbeats.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: tjcaustin on Wed, 27 November 2013, 23:21:34
Because $50,000 is a large number?

Because immediately charging someone is the easiest way to ensure you don't lose 10 - 30% of the interested parties when they change their fickle/impatient minds because "it's taking too long"?

Because people are going to complain about his prices no matter what, even though nokcha and i3oilermaker are in the same business and charge the same amount for SP as sherry does for GMK without anywhere near the investment that sherry has in 1 GMK set because they piggie back off of GB MoQs (this is no insult or shots fired, but statement of fact)?

Because no one said a negative word when bunnylake does the exact same thing (charge from interest registering)?

Each TKL bi-color set through GMK is $80/set before international shipping.  I have an invoice I can share if you think I'm "being shady", too.  Maybe instead of accusations of impropriety, you can do the work yourself and then realize that "oh hey, maybe sherry's pricing is fair"?
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: demik on Wed, 27 November 2013, 23:24:52
Quote
Maybe instead of accusations of impropriety, you can do the work yourself and then realize that "oh hey, maybe sherry's pricing is fair"?

i also like to complain while i sit on my throne and do nothing

but then what will i complain about when i actually have to do work?

it seems that everything sherry does somebody has to ***** and complain while they sit on their ass and do nothing themselves. or turn around and purchase from him anyway. or turn around and purchase from other vendors doing the same thing he's doing but magically what they do is "okay".

Until someone on GH can run a successful 400MOQ order from GMK, I see this as the only option for a vender to front the cost up front in exchange for profit down the road.

If we were not trying to cater to 5-10% of the community that wanted language packs and/or iso keys just as Originative has done, then we probably would have had two successful GMK buys under our belt as a community throughout 2013.

considering the GB organizer is the one who wants the language pack and what not, this is difficult to do.
Unless someone else steps up to do it.  Not to mention how many GBs have over 400 orders?
I haven't seen a full keycap GB even with SP that went over 400 order recently.

Just a quick search, raindrop had 162 alphas ordered, Lily in the GB had over 75 sets ordered, maybe boiler ordered to 100 sets.  Same with Turtle Power.
Klaxon had 150+ RoW Base sets and 50+ WoR, but RoW didn't hit 200+ and WoR didn't hit 100+, Valentine had around 100 sets, Cherry Replicas i don't think were pass 300 total.


You have not looked at Toxic have you. Over 600 of the base set and 500 of the modifiers. Yes those numbers will drop off a bit because of people falling out of interest in keyboards, but it will also pick up some last second orders as well. If it wasn't for the unique color we want to run we would have done it through GMK already. It can be done with patience and a 4-6 month group buy, or possibly a one month MassDrop.

those numbers are bull**** until people actually pay.

if you're truly confident that your way is better than sherry's, close your GB tomorrow and see how many people actually pay.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 28 November 2013, 00:01:31
i also like to complain while i sit on my throne and do nothing

but then what will i complain about when i actually have to do work?


Talking to yourself again?
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: demik on Thu, 28 November 2013, 00:03:49
nope
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: demik on Thu, 28 November 2013, 00:04:04
nope

liar
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: phoenix1234 on Thu, 28 November 2013, 00:06:14
nope

liar
:-\
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: tjcaustin on Thu, 28 November 2013, 00:11:29
i also like to complain while i sit on my throne and do nothing

but then what will i complain about when i actually have to do work?


Talking to yourself again?

It's amusing that you pull this out when other people post more than once.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: sherryton on Thu, 28 November 2013, 00:59:33
That is my understanding, Sherry is going to make up the remaining orders to meet MOQ.


So what is the group buy getting for us then? The opportunity to get them closer to cost and skip Originative upcharge only if the group buy breaks 400 tier during the group buy phase?

Because otherwise it just looks like we'd be helping to hit 400 at an increased price so it costs someone else less to buy those 400 sets...

If he intends to buy 400+ no matter what, then those who participate should get the 400 price no matter what. Oiler doesn't charge increased prices in his group buys when he is buying extras to carry on techkeys.us (http://www.techkeys.us/)

I'll edit my post if I am wrong or misunderstanding

All our orders has been initial investments out of pocket with no cost to any of our customers. Yes we are a business, but our profits are still in our inventory. We still have Classic Beige and Charcoal sets in our inventory. We are still primarily a one man operation, myself, with the aid and assistance of family members and when I really need their help... will call upon friends on packaging days.

If we reach the 100 MOQ and we bought it at the 400 MOQ which we have done, we are taking on further risks.

If we were to sell at the 400 MOQ cost, it may take some time to reach the target, but our goal is to get the Handarbeit to you the customer's hands as soon as possible.

We are doing our best to our availabilty and take a 10-15% cut. Most of that pricing goes to a lot of labor, credit card processing fees, packaging, shipping, import taxes, sales taxes, etc. Anyone who has received our product, could you please chime in to the way you received your product? We spend the first two weeks after receiving the orders directly into packaging and sorting.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: bueller on Thu, 28 November 2013, 01:05:15
That is my understanding, Sherry is going to make up the remaining orders to meet MOQ.


So what is the group buy getting for us then? The opportunity to get them closer to cost and skip Originative upcharge only if the group buy breaks 400 tier during the group buy phase?

Because otherwise it just looks like we'd be helping to hit 400 at an increased price so it costs someone else less to buy those 400 sets...

If he intends to buy 400+ no matter what, then those who participate should get the 400 price no matter what. Oiler doesn't charge increased prices in his group buys when he is buying extras to carry on techkeys.us (http://www.techkeys.us/)

I'll edit my post if I am wrong or misunderstanding

All our orders has been initial investments out of pocket with no cost to any of our customers. Yes we are a business, but our profits are still in our inventory. We still have Classic Beige and Charcoal sets in our inventory. We are still primarily a one man operation, myself, with the aid and assistance of family members and when I really need their help... will call upon friends on packaging days.

If we reach the 100 MOQ and we bought it at the 400 MOQ which we have done, we are taking on further risks.

If we were to sell at the 400 MOQ cost, it may take some time to reach the target, but our goal is to get the Handarbeit to you the customer's hands as soon as possible.

We are doing our best to our availabilty and take a 10-15% cut. Most of that pricing goes to a lot of labor, credit card processing fees, packaging, shipping, import taxes, sales taxes, etc. Anyone who has received our product, could you please chime in to the way you received your product? We spend the first two weeks after receiving the orders directly into packaging and sorting.

Sorting and packing has been impeccable on all my orders, shipping was reasonably priced and even included tracking which is something I NEVER get from other retailers. Keep doing things the way you are and you'll have plenty of repeat business from me mate.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 28 November 2013, 01:09:12
Hey sherry, sent you an email, please reply.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: YongJK on Thu, 28 November 2013, 01:11:48
Hey sherry, sent you an email, please reply.
Hey sherry,
Me too. I have sent email few hours ago.
Please look at it.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: sherryton on Thu, 28 November 2013, 01:14:25
This time around.  We might try something different...

We might ship from other countries to save others on shipping.  We would also like to make it faster and guarantee no losses for people.  Hopefully we can work with vendors from a few countries. 

Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: bueller on Thu, 28 November 2013, 01:18:00
This time around.  We might try something different...

We might ship from other countries to save others on shipping.  We would also like to make it faster and guarantee no losses for people.  Hopefully we can work with vendors from a few countries.

Might pay to speak with the people from http://www.mechkb.com, they might be able to help you out with Aus distribution.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: bazemk1979 on Thu, 28 November 2013, 01:38:27
Because $50,000 is a large number?

Because immediately charging someone is the easiest way to ensure you don't lose 10 - 30% of the interested parties when they change their fickle/impatient minds because "it's taking too long"?

Because people are going to complain about his prices no matter what, even though nokcha and i3oilermaker are in the same business and charge the same amount for SP as sherry does for GMK without anywhere near the investment that sherry has in 1 GMK set because they piggie back off of GB MoQs (this is no insult or shots fired, but statement of fact)?

Because no one said a negative word when bunnylake does the exact same thing (charge from interest registering)?

Each TKL bi-color set through GMK is $80/set before international shipping.  I have an invoice I can share if you think I'm "being shady", too.  Maybe instead of accusations of impropriety, you can do the work yourself and then realize that "oh hey, maybe sherry's pricing is fair"?

TKL bi color set from GMK straight if MOQ is met cost $80?  show us the invoice please, cause I got the Dolch 104 + Winkeyless set for $85 and I know the first peeps got it for $80. Show us the INVOICE then and explain how  people purchased 109 keys Dolch set for $80 if TKL is $80 direct from GMK? One more thing, I'm yet to see GB @ GH that charges me as I enter like participant.



EDIT: I don't complain for the tier pricings, at least Sherry redeemed him self a little bit by adding the tiers and yes they reasonable now, but charging upfront its like taking your balls and giving to somebody telling him squeeze them at your wish.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: bueller on Thu, 28 November 2013, 02:22:23
Because $50,000 is a large number?

Because immediately charging someone is the easiest way to ensure you don't lose 10 - 30% of the interested parties when they change their fickle/impatient minds because "it's taking too long"?

Because people are going to complain about his prices no matter what, even though nokcha and i3oilermaker are in the same business and charge the same amount for SP as sherry does for GMK without anywhere near the investment that sherry has in 1 GMK set because they piggie back off of GB MoQs (this is no insult or shots fired, but statement of fact)?

Because no one said a negative word when bunnylake does the exact same thing (charge from interest registering)?

Each TKL bi-color set through GMK is $80/set before international shipping.  I have an invoice I can share if you think I'm "being shady", too.  Maybe instead of accusations of impropriety, you can do the work yourself and then realize that "oh hey, maybe sherry's pricing is fair"?

TKL bi color set from GMK straight if MOQ is met cost $80?  show us the invoice please, cause I got the Dolch 104 + Winkeyless set for $85 and I know the first peeps got it for $80. Show us the INVOICE then and explain how  people purchased 109 keys Dolch set for $80 if TKL is $80 direct from GMK? One more thing, I'm yet to see GB @ GH that charges me as I enter like participant.



EDIT: I don't complain for the tier pricings, at least Sherry redeemed him self a little bit by adding the tiers and yes they reasonable now, but charging upfront its like taking your balls and giving to somebody telling him squeeze them at your wish.

Good god man let it go.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 28 November 2013, 03:46:39
i also like to complain while i sit on my throne and do nothing

but then what will i complain about when i actually have to do work?


Talking to yourself again?

It's amusing that you pull this out when other people post more than once.

Only when he quotes himself for no readily apparent reason :p
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: tinlong117 on Thu, 28 November 2013, 05:14:12
(http://i.imgur.com/76epyMG.jpg)

Sherry needs profit to survive. Don't blame him.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: phoenix1234 on Thu, 28 November 2013, 05:47:06
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/76epyMG.jpg)


Sherry needs profit to survive. Don't blame him.

tinlong117,
I don't know what is going on and I have no comment on the topic because I always respect any group buy.
However, I need to say that I really like your hand drawing, seriously  :))
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: bazh on Thu, 28 November 2013, 06:24:25
lol, I like your drawing, tinlong :))
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: IPT on Thu, 28 November 2013, 09:29:36
And b4 someone goes its only $78 not $80, you cannot take current exchange rate and multiply it. Since no bank will convert for free, usually banks take 3%-4% exchange rate fee and obviously the cost of wiring. So yes $80 a set is the truth. Let's see what the next claim is. I predict it'll be "well that price is full 104key! He's charging $95 for 87keys! Death to sherry!"
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: bazemk1979 on Thu, 28 November 2013, 09:37:02
makes me wonder how he was selling the 110 keys Dolch at starters for $80..... does not add up seems like he is planning to lose or be even at start so he can gain later down the road....

@Sherry

If we are going to invest in the Handerbeit and pay ahead of time, can you at least set up paypal option on you website?
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: ninjadoc on Thu, 28 November 2013, 10:15:05
Sherryton
"We are doing our best to our availabilty and take a 10-15% cut. Most of that pricing goes to a lot of labor, credit card processing fees, packaging, shipping, import taxes, sales taxes, etc. Anyone who has received our product, could you please chime in to the way you received your product? We spend the first two weeks after receiving the orders directly into packaging and sorting."

I have no complaints. sherry has been quick to respond, items have been shipped out quickly, and as described. He doses a fine job and whoever thinks they can do it better can start their own business and see how much fun it is.

I pitched a fit when his website was fried and gave me an unreasonable amount on shipping. It was probably my fault and I apologized publicly in my post for me being an ass.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: ninjadoc on Thu, 28 November 2013, 10:23:58
bazmek1979
"EDIT: I don't complain for the tier pricings, at least Sherry redeemed him self a little bit by adding the tiers and yes they reasonable now, but charging upfront its like taking your balls and giving to somebody telling him squeeze them at your wish. "

Do you think GMK is going to make 400 keysets without an upfront payment if an individual instead of a large corporation is ordering them? I would bet not. You state the dolch 104 + winkeyless was $85 - then 400 x $85= $34000. Is that pocket change for you? Just think about cost.

Why don't all of you drop the crap - you either want the keys or not? If not - then quit whining!! It is no longer you affair or your business. It's not mine either - but sick of hearing the whining about something that the only effect that could result is that we lose the only source of GMK keys that I'm aware of. Your welcome to PM me if you know others but the only GMK keys I've seen SOLD here were from Team Redline.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: tjcaustin on Thu, 28 November 2013, 12:29:28
And if you've never seen a GH GB like this, I guess you've never paid attention to any ctrl alt GB.

Oh, I forgot r4/r5.  You may not count those since they're run on DT, though and it would ruin your narrative of "sherry is terrible"
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: Dubsgalore on Thu, 28 November 2013, 20:43:49
Sherry make the RGB sets in A profile  :-*

What does that mean? What profile are EK's?

the EK packs are B profile and Sherry sells B profile.

A profile is for the single bottom row, and it's a bit steeper

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7357/11036014986_573d179d51_o.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/99760972@N03/11036014986/)

Here is a beige set i own that is in A profile on the bottom row. I like it a lot more then the normal setup where It's B profile on the bottom two rows. Sherry will sell sets where the bottom two rows are in B. with my beige set the second to bottom row is B and the bottom row is A.

(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5330/9486652401_951333100e_o.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/99760972@N03/9486652401/)

My 3700 is in A profile and my sherry beige set on my poker is in B profile, you can see the A is a bit steeper. it's much better to use imho
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: sherryton on Thu, 28 November 2013, 21:59:01
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/76epyMG.jpg)


Sherry needs profit to survive. Don't blame him.

Those prices seem real cheap because the Black and White monotone colors are the fastest and cheapest available through GMK.  That is approximately $82 for 104 keys. 

If you add in pad printed and clear coat, then the prices go up.  Add in winkeyless and hhkb, then there will be an even more increase.  Add sorting fees, credit card processing fees / paypal fees, import taxes, transfer fees, shipping costs, packaging materials, currency exchange rate fee, etc., then the prices will go beyond $95-110.  Our Russian Cyrllic at 400 MOQ will cost you $115 for a full set.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: sherryton on Thu, 28 November 2013, 22:38:59
I forgot to add pricing for Full Sets

Tiers (MOQ)   Handarbeit (87)          Tenkeypad          Winkeyless   HHKB   Windowed       Full Set
   1 (100)                  110                          26                   26             16                 26              195
   2 (200)                  100                          23.5                23.5          15                 23.5           180
   3 (400)                    85                          18                   18             13                 18              145
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: tinlong117 on Thu, 28 November 2013, 22:50:09
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/76epyMG.jpg)


Sherry needs profit to survive. Don't blame him.

Those prices seem real cheap because the Black and White monotone colors are the fastest and cheapest available through GMK.  That is approximately $82 for 104 keys. 

If you add in pad printed and clear coat, then the prices go up.  Add in winkeyless and hhkb, then there will be an even more increase.  Add sorting fees, credit card processing fees / paypal fees, import taxes, transfer fees, shipping costs, packaging materials, currency exchange rate fee, etc., then the prices will go beyond $95-110.  Our Russian Cyrllic at 400 MOQ will cost you $115 for a full set.

Haha, no. It is not normal white on black set. It is ta 3000 set. Petrol and grey.

I don't mind you take profit, because tis your job and you need to survive.

P.S. I don't like you because you didn't ship kmac worldwide. :x
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: YongJK on Thu, 28 November 2013, 22:52:58
I forgot to add pricing for Full Sets

Tiers (MOQ)   Handarbeit (87)          Tenkeypad          Winkeyless   HHKB   Windowed       Full Set
   1 (100)                  110                          26                   26             16                 26              195
   2 (200)                  100                          23.5                23.5          15                 23.5           180
   3 (400)                    85                          18                   18             13                 18              145

So you will do a refund if the price has hit tier 3?
I have paid for 110+26 (TKL+Winkeyless)
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: sherryton on Thu, 28 November 2013, 23:11:12
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/76epyMG.jpg)


Sherry needs profit to survive. Don't blame him.

Those prices seem real cheap because the Black and White monotone colors are the fastest and cheapest available through GMK.  That is approximately $82 for 104 keys. 

If you add in pad printed and clear coat, then the prices go up.  Add in winkeyless and hhkb, then there will be an even more increase.  Add sorting fees, credit card processing fees / paypal fees, import taxes, transfer fees, shipping costs, packaging materials, currency exchange rate fee, etc., then the prices will go beyond $95-110.  Our Russian Cyrllic at 400 MOQ will cost you $115 for a full set.

Haha, no. It is not normal white on black set. It is ta 3000 set. Petrol and grey.

I don't mind you take profit, because tis your job and you need to survive.

P.S. I don't like you because you didn't ship kmac worldwide. :x

I was very bad with packaging before.  I would have had a lot of troubles through PayPal because of the damages.  I am a lot better now with packaging and more knowledgeable about shipping.

I forgot to add pricing for Full Sets

Tiers (MOQ)   Handarbeit (87)          Tenkeypad          Winkeyless   HHKB   Windowed       Full Set
   1 (100)                  110                          26                   26             16                 26              195
   2 (200)                  100                          23.5                23.5          15                 23.5           180
   3 (400)                    85                          18                   18             13                 18              145

So you will do a refund if the price has hit tier 3?
I have paid for 110+26 (TKL+Winkeyless)

Yes
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: piraterice on Sun, 01 December 2013, 07:11:54
the color set looks very nice!
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: b3n on Sun, 01 December 2013, 11:52:05

This time around.  We might try something different...

We might ship from other countries to save others on shipping.  We would also like to make it faster and guarantee no losses for people.  Hopefully we can work with vendors from a few countries.

Might pay to speak with the people from http://www.mechkb.com, they might be able to help you out with Aus distribution.

Make this happen pls!
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: gh_pp on Sun, 01 December 2013, 20:00:31
Hi Sherryton,

My order with classic beige, 3 ds sets and 3 esc are still not processed because the ds is not ready yet.

Now you have this handarbeit set, and it'll be over my budget if I were to get it.
Can you cancel my 3 ds sets ($18x3) and I'll order this handerbeit instead.

Or I can pay you the difference. Whichever way that is easier for you to process.

Sorry for the trouble, but I didn't expect handarbeit days after I submit the order :O


Thank you!
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: cgbuen on Mon, 02 December 2013, 01:41:11
Will you be announcing a set date for the end of these buys anytime soon? I've only been able to find "December or January" on the homepage.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: sherryton on Mon, 02 December 2013, 01:54:41
We are planning to end the Russian Cyrllic before January because it's about ready to go through.  The Handarbeit still needs a lot more buyers.

The Handarbeit along with the RGB will probably end near January to February.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: Elrick on Mon, 02 December 2013, 05:13:02
The Handarbeit still needs a lot more buyers.

The Handarbeit along with the RGB will probably end near January to February.

Sherry, I said it at least 100 times before - provide "PAYPAL" payments and you'll get that "buy in" order happening instantly  :thumb: .

In fact you'll be beating people off with a crowbar when those orders start rolling in finally.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: xandr on Mon, 02 December 2013, 18:05:02
Hey Sherryton, I really like the stuff you're doing, but I feel very very little love for Mac users in your group buys.

I don't know how much impact on prices it would have, but including 2x 1.25x Cmd keys in the normal sets and 2x 1.0 Alt + 2x 1.5 Cmd keys in the "traditional 7x spacebar" sets would surely make all the Mac users - including me :) - very happy.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: dragonken on Tue, 03 December 2013, 11:27:41
May I know the deadline of handarbeit group buy?
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=51200.msg1130343#msg1130343

Can I pay via paypal instead of credit card?

Ken
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: shadewolf on Tue, 03 December 2013, 11:31:18
Deadline is end of December based on this post:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=51200.msg1130343#msg1130343
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: sherryton on Wed, 04 December 2013, 06:29:53
Hey Sherryton, I really like the stuff you're doing, but I feel very very little love for Mac users in your group buys.

I don't know how much impact on prices it would have, but including 2x 1.25x Cmd keys in the normal sets and 2x 1.0 Alt + 2x 1.5 Cmd keys in the "traditional 7x spacebar" sets would surely make all the Mac users - including me :) - very happy.

Those keys would not be possible as there are no mouldings for those keys; however, we can arrange for pad printing.  I do not believe there is enough interest to get in 400 people.

Tier 2 is now in place and the prices has dropped for Cyrllic.

Edit:  I am also arranging a PayPal option for everyone, no guarantees!  I'll let you know at the end of the week.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: Elrick on Wed, 04 December 2013, 06:49:43
Edit:  I am also arranging a PayPal option for everyone, no guarantees!  I'll let you know at the end of the week.

Damn Sherry, I could kiss you for that  :-* ...... finally getting some paypal action, which means almost a permanent drain on my bank account  :thumb: .
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: xandr on Thu, 05 December 2013, 18:20:46
Hey Sherryton, I really like the stuff you're doing, but I feel very very little love for Mac users in your group buys.

I don't know how much impact on prices it would have, but including 2x 1.25x Cmd keys in the normal sets and 2x 1.0 Alt + 2x 1.5 Cmd keys in the "traditional 7x spacebar" sets would surely make all the Mac users - including me :) - very happy.

Those keys would not be possible as there are no mouldings for those keys;

Is there a complete list of the moldings that GMK has somewhere?
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 05 December 2013, 21:12:48
Edit:  I am also arranging a PayPal option for everyone, no guarantees!  I'll let you know at the end of the week.

Damn Sherry, I could kiss you for that  :-* ...... finally getting some paypal action, which means almost a permanent drain on my bank account  :thumb: .

+1

This is fantastic news, and should make things a lot easier for a lot of people!

Thanks Sherry :)
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: tbc on Fri, 06 December 2013, 01:50:55
The Handarbeit still needs a lot more buyers.

The Handarbeit along with the RGB will probably end near January to February.

Sherry, I said it at least 100 times before - provide "PAYPAL" payments and you'll get that "buy in" order happening instantly  :thumb: .

In fact you'll be beating people off with a crowbar when those orders start rolling in finally.

I'm kinda curious about this....is there some issue with using CCs online (internationally?) that I don't know about?  waht does paypal offer other than the fact that most members have some money in their for/from buys/sales?
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: Moosecraft on Fri, 06 December 2013, 02:57:34
Paypal purchasing would make me a sure customer of handarbeit  :thumb:
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: Elrick on Fri, 06 December 2013, 03:35:00
Paypal purchasing would make me a sure customer of handarbeit  :thumb:

Here, here  :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: ..... nothing more to say really.
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: zenuty on Fri, 06 December 2013, 11:39:06
I wants participate GMK RGB
But Failed order.

=======================================================================

Shipping method
Unfortunately there is no Shipping Rate available for your destination and/or weight of your cart.

Please contact the Shop Owner for further assistance.

=======================================================================
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: garoti on Thu, 26 December 2013, 09:07:48
Hey sherry, do you have classic beige - black font legend now?
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 26 December 2013, 09:26:44
I ordered the Cyrillic set.

Mind posting some updated numbers?
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: hazeluff on Thu, 26 December 2013, 17:20:50
After correcting sherry before, he is still incapable of spelling 'Cyr i llic'
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: reiuorw on Fri, 27 December 2013, 03:09:31
Hi, sherry. I was waiting for paypal and planned to  participate in GMK RGB, but all GB products disappeared on Originative website. Does deadline end?
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: sheknet on Sat, 28 December 2013, 22:01:50
Hi, sherry. I was waiting for paypal and planned to  participate in GMK RGB, but all GB products disappeared on Originative website. Does deadline end?

Same here... when I want to order today, I found all disappearing..
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: Elrick on Sat, 28 December 2013, 22:22:30
Hi, sherry. I was waiting for paypal and planned to  participate in GMK RGB, but all GB products disappeared on Originative website. Does deadline end?

Same here... when I want to order today, I found all disappearing..

Stay patient, Sherry is doing his overhaul of his site and it will have the items for sale yet again.  He hasn't forgotten you guys wanting his gear so badly, it's almost perverse  ;) .
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: dragonken on Mon, 06 January 2014, 19:51:40
When will it open again? I am afraid I have missed the handarbeit group buy.

Ken
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: bazemk1979 on Mon, 06 January 2014, 23:33:01
When will it open again? I am afraid I have missed the handarbeit group buy.

Ken

read all the posts dude, no GB went trough, he is restarting everything
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: ninjadoc on Tue, 07 January 2014, 15:52:26
When will it open again? I am afraid I have missed the handarbeit group buy.

Ken

read all the posts dude, no GB went trough, he is restarting everything

Where is this post? I've read this thread several times and I don't find it!
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 07 January 2014, 15:53:58
When will it open again? I am afraid I have missed the handarbeit group buy.

Ken

read all the posts dude, no GB went trough, he is restarting everything

Where is this post? I've read this thread several times and I don't find it!

I know he posted this

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40315.msg1177448#msg1177448 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40315.msg1177448#msg1177448)

and this

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43233.msg1155116#msg1155116
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: ninjadoc on Wed, 08 January 2014, 07:47:29
When will it open again? I am afraid I have missed the handarbeit group buy.

Ken

read all the posts dude, no GB went trough, he is restarting everything

Where is this post? I've read this thread several times and I don't find it!

I know he posted this

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40315.msg1177448#msg1177448 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40315.msg1177448#msg1177448)

and this

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43233.msg1155116#msg1155116

"I am going to refund the money for the Handarbeit and Cyrllic.  Except the Cyrllic and SoWaRe to here soon.  That is all the updates for now.  Thanks and Happy Holidays everyone."

Not sure what he means when he says he's going to refund money for the "Cyrillic" then he states " Except the Cyrllic and SoWaRe to here soon.  "

So I have no clue what that means.

Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: LONGZILLA on Wed, 08 January 2014, 10:01:39
Except Expect. No idea on the Cryllic part
Title: Re: Originative's GMK Group Buy
Post by: daetsid on Wed, 08 January 2014, 16:40:46
When will it open again? I am afraid I have missed the handarbeit group buy.

Ken

read all the posts dude, no GB went trough, he is restarting everything

Where is this post? I've read this thread several times and I don't find it!

I know he posted this

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40315.msg1177448#msg1177448 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40315.msg1177448#msg1177448)

and this

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43233.msg1155116#msg1155116

"I am going to refund the money for the Handarbeit and Cyrllic.  Except the Cyrllic and SoWaRe to here soon.  That is all the updates for now.  Thanks and Happy Holidays everyone."

Not sure what he means when he says he's going to refund money for the "Cyrillic" then he states " Except the Cyrllic and SoWaRe to here soon.  "

So I have no clue what that means.

Pity if it doesn't happend...