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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: lonedruid on Sun, 01 December 2013, 09:10:44
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No no , not another oh here-we-go-again fiery debate between topre and cherries. I planning to get both but bo money. So which one should I get first. Which will radically change my typing experience? I owns a cherry red. I tried type heaven at shop. Omo that smoothness!! Of cuz final decision still up to me, see how it goes, up to the astronomical star arrangement on that day for a taurus. :)
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If you already own a cherry keyboard... get a topre board. Its a whole new typing experience.
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Yep, you already have a Cherry MX keyboard, why not go to the darkside and try a Topre? Proud and contented owner of a Type Heaven myself.....as well as a RF 103UB-55G......and throw in a couple of HHKB 2's. If you want to stick with an MX board, then it's fine as well.....your money, your prerogative. I'd gotten three or four Cherry MX boards before trying my first Topre....
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Another thing to consider is getting a cheaper Cherry MX blue board and some nicer key caps.
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lonedruid, don't destroy your wallet.
ignore these guys, get a secondhand Razer with blue switches for $50 shipped and never look back. :cool:
if you follow what the other guys say about Topre, you will be sucked into a world of stratospheric expenditures. Six months and seven keyboards and three-four thousand dollars later, you will be wondering what went wrong.
No no , not another oh here-we-go-again fiery debate between topre and cherries. I planning to get both but bo money. So which one should I get first. Which will radically change my typing experience? I owns a cherry red. I tried type heaven at shop. Omo that smoothness!! Of cuz final decision still up to me, see how it goes, up to the astronomical star arrangement on that day for a taurus. :)
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the one that will most radically change your "typing experience" are the blues. topre are pretty similar to cherry, they are both very smooth but topre has a bump and reds dont. blues are loud & clicky, something very different from both reds and topre
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I agree with both snoopy and PadawanGeek. If you already have a Cherry MX board, there is nothing wrong with owning a Topre board as well. Each switch seems to have their own benefits and along with having tasted the differences in feel I am sure one also learns valuable insights rather than having to go by what you felt with typing on it before and not having the actual said product in your hands.
Besides, your Cherry MX board may allow you to swap switches for instance pretty easily and fairly cheaply if you have the right tools and maybe a bit of know how. To invest in yet another Cherry MX switch when you could afford a cheap Topre seems to be a bit of a shame when you have already felt how good it was to taste it when it was in the shop.
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you haven't had a tactile switch yet. go try a blue or a buckling spring. 45 topre is not tactile in any way; 55g is marginally tactile.
you'll find that topre is very good at linear and buckling spring is very good at tactility. MX switches are imitations that aren;'t optimized for switch feel; they're optimized for customizability and looks. that's not to say that no one will find them the best,just that their definitions of linear and tactile are less extreme than other switch types.
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In the end you will get both, so either would be good for a start. Save your indecision for another occasion.
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Get the Topre next. You already have MX reds, which is probably the best MX switch, IMO.
If you want something really different from Cherry, get the ergonomically variable weighted silent Topre switches.
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Topruhhhhhh
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45 topre is not tactile in any way; 55g is marginally tactile.
Wat
There is no way you can not call 45g topres not tactile. Blues' tactile bump is sharp, but topres have a longer, smoother bump.
As far as the OP, you should try both switches before you buy. Maybe look into the cooler master switch demo? If you're coming from reds, blues will be as radically as 45g topre.
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tactile compared to a buckling spring? not close in the slightest. I did mention that blues are imitation tactile switches.
EDIT:
I think I see what is happening here. for someone who enjoys linear switches, 45g is indeed tactile. that's just a skewed subjective opinion though; it's still patheticly bumpless compared to even a unicomp board.
I actually mistook the 45g bump as keycap wobble.
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tactile compared to a buckling spring? not close in the slightest. I did mention that blues are imitation tactile switches.
EDIT:
I think I see what is happening here. for someone who enjoys linear switches, 45g is indeed tactile. that's just a skewed subjective opinion though; it's still patheticly bumpless compared to even a unicomp board.
I actually mistook the 45g bump as keycap wobble.
If you're looking for an objective opinion, look no further:
Topre 45g:
(http://cdn.overclock.net/7/77/77b5b81e_47c8a19470bee5776d40b14c142ca20d.jpeg)
BS:
(http://cdn.overclock.net/2/24/24ccf246_3dd410d36935fc5982de4ffbd6101c05.jpeg)
As you can see here, topre has a smoother, smaller (~30-45g) bump, whereas BS has one point where it drops from ~65g to ~45g. The overall difference (15g vs 20g) is not that much, it is just the sharp drop off in force that makes the BS seem more tactile. You also may be confusing more force with more tactility, which is a common mistake.
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....?
it's good to see that we agree that buckling spring more tactile than topre 45g.
saying that 5 g is meaningless is just saying there's no difference between 45g topre and 55g.
but let's stop playing games; we both know that switch feel involves more factors than just stated specs and force curves.
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No no , not another oh here-we-go-again fiery debate between topre and cherries. I planning to get both but bo money. So which one should I get first. Which will radically change my typing experience? I owns a cherry red. I tried type heaven at shop. Omo that smoothness!! Of cuz final decision still up to me, see how it goes, up to the astronomical star arrangement on that day for a taurus. :)
After first using the Filco Majestouch 2 - Cherry MX Blue switches, then IBM Model M and now the RealForce 104U Topre switches—I can say confidently, the Topre offers a quite unique typing experience that has grown on me quite a bit. It's definitely something worth trying out if you can before forking over a hefty amount. But I can say it's a purchase I don't regret.
To each's own! ; :thumb:
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No no , not another oh here-we-go-again fiery debate between topre and cherries. I planning to get both but bo money. So which one should I get first. Which will radically change my typing experience? I owns a cherry red. I tried type heaven at shop. Omo that smoothness!! Of cuz final decision still up to me, see how it goes, up to the astronomical star arrangement on that day for a taurus. :)
After first using the Filco Majestouch 2 - Cherry MX Blue switches, then IBM Model M and now the RealForce 104U Topre switches—I can say confidently, the Topre offers a quite unique typing experience that has grown on me quite a bit. It's definitely something worth trying out if you can before forking over a hefty amount. In my mind it's a purchase I don't regret.
To each's own! ; :thumb:
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the one that will most radically change your "typing experience" are the blues. topre are pretty similar to cherry, they are both very smooth but topre has a bump and reds dont. blues are loud & clicky, something very different from both reds and topre
Thank you. Browns/Topres are majorly different.
Get the Topre next. You already have MX reds, which is probably the best MX switch, IMO.
If you want something really different from Cherry, get the ergonomically variable weighted silent Topre switches.
If reds are the best switch, and they have zero tactility, you would suggest that he gets a marginally tactile rubber dome switch? :))
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the one that will most radically change your "typing experience" are the blues. topre are pretty similar to cherry, they are both very smooth but topre has a bump and reds dont. blues are loud & clicky, something very different from both reds and topre
Thank you. Browns/Topres are majorly different.
Get the Topre next. You already have MX reds, which is probably the best MX switch, IMO.
If you want something really different from Cherry, get the ergonomically variable weighted silent Topre switches.
If reds are the best switch, and they have zero tactility, you would suggest that he gets a marginally tactile rubber dome switch? :))
No. I suggested that OP get a Topre switch keyboard.
First: Topre is not a rubber dome switch. Topre is an electrostatic capacitance switch, which is superior technology to rubber dome switch, which is also a "mechanical" switch, in that the rubber dome is the "mechanism" by which the electrical circuit is closed. An electrostatic capacitive switch does not use a physical metal part to make the electrical connection, instead the electrical connection is made by capacitance. Topre capacitive switches do not physically complete an electric circuit like most other keyboard technologies. Instead, electric current constantly flows through all parts of the key matrix. Each key is spring-loaded and has a tiny plate attached to the bottom of it. When you press a key, you do the work of moving the tiny top plate closer to the larger plate below it. As the gap between the two plates decreases, the capacitance increases, and the amount of current flowing through the matrix changes. The micro-processor in the keyboard detects the change in voltage and interprets it as a key press for that location.
Because there is no physical contact, capacitive switch keyboards have a longer life than any other mechanical keyboard. Also, capacitive switch keyboards do not have problems with signal bounce since the two surfaces never come into physical contact. Signal bounce is a real problem if you want an electronic circuit with fast response time. Contact bounce can produce very noticeable and undesired effects.
Second: MX Reds are the best Cherry switches for me, since I do either heavy gaming or heavy typing. The linear 45g actuation force of the MX reds is good for both heavy gaming and heavy typing since it reduces finger fatigue. So, since he is like me and likes reds, he probably will not like browns, blues or blacks any better, but he probably will like Topre. Topre will have more tactility that MX Reds, it is true, but the Topre keypress is immensely more enjoyable than the keypress of any MX switch. Furthermore, one cannot directly compare the tactility of Topre to that of MX. Both have a tactile bump, but Topre feels completely different from the MX tactile bump. Also, it occurs at the top of the keystroke, not in the middle. And finally the 30g switches found in an ergo variable weighted Topre keyboard are so light that the tactile bump is almost unnoticeable, making them feel much like MX reds, but lighter reds, if that makes sense. So that, in toto, is the reason for my recommendation. I did not write it out in full, but since you asked for clarification, I am giving it to you now.
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If you own a CHerry MX red-based keyboard, you will probably find that MX blue feels very similar, but with a bump and a click (which might end up annoying you).
As you have tried one MX switch, I would also suggest you try Topre.
At least if you really don't like Topre you should be able to resell the board for almost what you paid for it - minimal loss, but experience gain.
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Hmm general sentiment tilts towards topre. TOPRE here I COME!!! :) I will go with a type heaven. Would like a leopold f6606c as well. But I dont dare try those 60 percent. Lol berzekerfan. We meet again :) 1pq thanks for your graphs I will study them later. Ty all for your inputs :) sry late reply u quite busy :)
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Boy, I smile alot :-\
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Take type heaven with a grain of salt. I've been told that your experiences with the you're heaven shouldn't affect how you feel about topre. If you have the money I'd really consider the Leopold or a realforce. If type heaven is your only option then just realize that it may not be a good example of what topre is supposed to feel like
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Er so would you recommend a leopold 6006c? Their capacitance switch are topre switch right? Because they never openly say it is topre switch that they are using.
About type heaven I have not seen much of ppl complaining except that the main thing being the abs caps instaed of pbts. But thanks for ur input. I will look into it.
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@eth0s
I would like the variable rf. But in singapore I have not been able to find except rf high profile grey 103u 45g at xtreme solutions at sim lims square. I will try to find at more places :thumb:
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@eth0s
I would like the variable rf. But in singapore I have not been able to find except rf high profile grey 103u 45g at xtreme solutions at sim lims square. I will try to find at more places :thumb:
I have come to Sim Lim Square and seen at least three shops that sell Realforce. Google for the exact location.
Hydra Distribution
Sim Lim Square, #04-19
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the one that will most radically change your "typing experience" are the blues. topre are pretty similar to cherry, they are both very smooth but topre has a bump and reds dont. blues are loud & clicky, something very different from both reds and topre
Thank you. Browns/Topres are majorly different.
Get the Topre next. You already have MX reds, which is probably the best MX switch, IMO.
If you want something really different from Cherry, get the ergonomically variable weighted silent Topre switches.
If reds are the best switch, and they have zero tactility, you would suggest that he gets a marginally tactile rubber dome switch? :))
No. I suggested that OP get a Topre switch keyboard.
First: Topre is not a rubber dome switch. Topre is an electrostatic capacitance switch, which is superior technology to rubber dome switch, which is also a "mechanical" switch, in that the rubber dome is the "mechanism" by which the electrical circuit is closed. An electrostatic capacitive switch does not use a physical metal part to make the electrical connection, instead the electrical connection is made by capacitance. Topre capacitive switches do not physically complete an electric circuit like most other keyboard technologies. Instead, electric current constantly flows through all parts of the key matrix. Each key is spring-loaded and has a tiny plate attached to the bottom of it. When you press a key, you do the work of moving the tiny top plate closer to the larger plate below it. As the gap between the two plates decreases, the capacitance increases, and the amount of current flowing through the matrix changes. The micro-processor in the keyboard detects the change in voltage and interprets it as a key press for that location.
Because there is no physical contact, capacitive switch keyboards have a longer life than any other mechanical keyboard. Also, capacitive switch keyboards do not have problems with signal bounce since the two surfaces never come into physical contact. Signal bounce is a real problem if you want an electronic circuit with fast response time. Contact bounce can produce very noticeable and undesired effects.
Second: MX Reds are the best Cherry switches for me, since I do either heavy gaming or heavy typing. The linear 45g actuation force of the MX reds is good for both heavy gaming and heavy typing since it reduces finger fatigue. So, since he is like me and likes reds, he probably will not like browns, blues or blacks any better, but he probably will like Topre. Topre will have more tactility that MX Reds, it is true, but the Topre keypress is immensely more enjoyable than the keypress of any MX switch. Furthermore, one cannot directly compare the tactility of Topre to that of MX. Both have a tactile bump, but Topre feels completely different from the MX tactile bump. Also, it occurs at the top of the keystroke, not in the middle. And finally the 30g switches found in an ergo variable weighted Topre keyboard are so light that the tactile bump is almost unnoticeable, making them feel much like MX reds, but lighter reds, if that makes sense. So that, in toto, is the reason for my recommendation. I did not write it out in full, but since you asked for clarification, I am giving it to you now.
Ah, you make no sense. He didn't say that he liked Reds at all, he said that he had them. Therefore, the entire premise of your suggestion is flawed. Also, if he wanted a lighter linear switch, a much more practical solution would be simply replacing the springs with lighter ones. It makes no sense to buy a mildly tactile, extremely expensive board so that he can have a bastardized light switch. I guess it doesn't matter to you, though, it's not your money.