geekhack

geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: BucklingSpring on Sun, 01 December 2013, 10:13:36

Title: PFU HHKB 100$ vs 400$?
Post by: BucklingSpring on Sun, 01 December 2013, 10:13:36
Sorry for the heresy but PFU HHKB got so many hits on the search, I didn't find the answer.

Besides been 4 times the price what is the difference between a PFU HHKB at $100 and one at $400?

Is one using membrane and the other using Topre switches?
Title: Re: PFU HHKB 100$ vs 400$?
Post by: berserkfan on Sun, 01 December 2013, 10:16:20
I used your keywords and got this http://www.amazon.com/Happy-Hacking-Keyboard-Professional2-Black/dp/B000EXZ0VC

That's neither $100 nor $400. It's $250.

Quote from: BucklingSpring on Sun, 01 December 2013, 10:13:36
Sorry for the heresy but PFU HHKB got so many hits on the search, I didn't find the answer.

Besides been 4 times the price what is the difference between a PFU HHKB at $100 and one at $400?

Is one using membrane and the other using Topre switches?
Title: Re: PFU HHKB 100$ vs 400$?
Post by: Flyersfan1 on Sun, 01 December 2013, 10:17:00
Yeah, the cheapest HHKB model is the HHKB Lite which is a membrane keyboard, and goes all the way up to $400 for the Type-S variant with Topre Switches.
Title: Re: PFU HHKB 100$ vs 400$?
Post by: Tym on Sun, 01 December 2013, 10:17:37
Quote from: BucklingSpring on Sun, 01 December 2013, 10:13:36
Is one using membrane and the other using Topre switches?

I think that was the reason?
Title: Re: PFU HHKB 100$ vs 400$?
Post by: BucklingSpring on Sun, 01 December 2013, 10:22:04
400$
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=pfu_keyboards,hhkbpro2&pid=pdkb400ws

$66.00
http://www.ergonomicsmadeeasy.com/store/mini-keyboards/product/happy-hacking-lite-2-keyboard/
Title: Re: PFU HHKB 100$ vs 400$?
Post by: BucklingSpring on Sun, 01 December 2013, 10:29:13
The Topre Type Heaven goes for $150... With Topre switches. Go figure.
Title: Re: PFU HHKB 100$ vs 400$?
Post by: riotonthebay on Sun, 01 December 2013, 10:29:38
There are 3 price-points to consider:

Lite: ~$100, membrane switches: http://www.ergonomicsmadeeasy.com/store/mini-keyboards/product/happy-hacking-lite-2-keyboard/

Topre: $260, topre switches: http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=pfu_keyboards,hhkbpro2&pid=pdkb400b

Type-S: $400, silenced topre switches: http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=pfu_keyboards,hhkbpro2&pid=pdkb400ws

So you have to shell out at least $260 to get to Topre (if you want a new HHBK2). If you want a silenced board, but don't want to pay an extra $140 for it, you can mod your $260 board; dustinhxc has a good post about this here: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=51403.0
Title: Re: PFU HHKB 100$ vs 400$?
Post by: yasuo on Sun, 01 December 2013, 10:59:54
Try search hhkb pro secondhand arround under $200 few though rare
Title: Re: PFU HHKB 100$ vs 400$?
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 01 December 2013, 12:17:40
FWIW, I don't think the Lite has dye sub'd PBT keys.
Title: Re: PFU HHKB 100$ vs 400$?
Post by: BearManJim on Sun, 01 December 2013, 13:52:04
Quote from: BucklingSpring on Sun, 01 December 2013, 10:29:13
The Topre Type Heaven goes for $150... With Topre switches. Go figure.
ABS caps. The Keyboard Company took some snaps;
http://www.keyboardco.com/blog/index.php/2013/10/topre-type-heaven-full-review/
Title: Re: PFU HHKB 100$ vs 400$?
Post by: BucklingSpring on Sun, 01 December 2013, 14:54:37
Quote from: BearManJim on Sun, 01 December 2013, 13:52:04
Quote from: BucklingSpring on Sun, 01 December 2013, 10:29:13
The Topre Type Heaven goes for $150... With Topre switches. Go figure.
ABS caps. The Keyboard Company took some snaps;
http://www.keyboardco.com/blog/index.php/2013/10/topre-type-heaven-full-review/

Thanks for the link
Title: Re: PFU HHKB 100$ vs 400$?
Post by: tuxsavvy on Sun, 01 December 2013, 15:11:20
Type heaven is a bid to show that Topre keyboards does not necessarily mean one has to break their bank. Prior to Type heaven you have Leopold FC660C. The last I checked Type heaven only had full sized keyboard whilst the FC660C is a TKL keyboard. As always there is probably second and subsequent hands of Topre boards for sale which may allow one to afford a Topre without having to go source one brand new. That said, sourcing Realforce keyboards overseas may also be cheaper than buying Type heaven so again there are many ways to "skin a cat".

PFU HHKB are all 60% boards, apart from the differences in the switches used for instance HHKB still remains (as of writing) expensive for mainly their own type as well as brand name. Most other 60% boards uses Cherry MX which has competition, you also have Matias soon making 60% board with Alps. However HHKB comes out in both membrane as well as Topre. In some ways I sort of would like to say that the prices of HHKB Pro are generally overpriced than compared to the likes of most other 60% boards. Basically HHKB Lite2 for instance is the only 60% board with membrane whilst the HHKB Pro for instance is the only 60% board with Topre. No other manufacturer currently produces 60% board with Topre and maybe PFU only is the manufacturer for 60% board with membrane currently.

I would sort of say PFU HHKB Lite2 vs PFU HHKB Pro is kind of like PFU is trying to milk the "HHKB" name.
Title: Re: PFU HHKB 100$ vs 400$?
Post by: BucklingSpring on Sun, 01 December 2013, 15:34:19
^Right
The Leo FC660C is darn close to a 60% and currently the best bang for the buck for a HHKB/Topre like board.
Title: Re: PFU HHKB 100$ vs 400$?
Post by: tbc on Sun, 01 December 2013, 15:41:18
not if you replace the crappy pad printedkeycaps?
Title: Re: PFU HHKB 100$ vs 400$?
Post by: Awful on Sun, 01 December 2013, 16:43:14
^Bam! Plus, I'd never buy a Leo :\
Title: Re: PFU HHKB 100$ vs 400$?
Post by: BucklingSpring on Sun, 01 December 2013, 16:54:33
Quote from: Awful on Sun, 01 December 2013, 16:43:14
^Bam! Plus, I'd never buy a Leo :\

Oh... I never owned one. I was under the impression they were comparable quality to Filco and Ducky.
Title: Re: PFU HHKB 100$ vs 400$?
Post by: Pacifist on Sun, 01 December 2013, 16:55:38
why not get the leo or type heaven, buy pbt blanks, and swap them on?
Title: Re: PFU HHKB 100$ vs 400$?
Post by: tjcaustin on Sun, 01 December 2013, 17:27:10
Quote from: Awful on Sun, 01 December 2013, 16:43:14
^Bam! Plus, I'd never buy a Leo :\

You are aware that realforce is a leopold company, right?
Title: Re: PFU HHKB 100$ vs 400$?
Post by: tbc on Sun, 01 December 2013, 18:03:11
...?  really?

haha i thought that realforce was just topre's retail brand and leopold licensed/purchased their switches from topre's corporate branch.
Title: Re: PFU HHKB 100$ vs 400$?
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 02 December 2013, 03:22:43
FWIW my HHKB Pro 2 was $180.

Secondhand, but.

And that did not include postage.
Title: Re: PFU HHKB 100$ vs 400$?
Post by: terran5992 on Mon, 02 December 2013, 03:30:49
Lite 2 uses rubber domes.
Pro 2 uses capcitive  swiches
Title: Re: PFU HHKB 100$ vs 400$?
Post by: hasu on Mon, 02 December 2013, 18:35:40
Reportedly amazon.co.jp sold pro2 at $60 a couple days ago. wtf.
They seemed to place wrong price tag on them.
Title: Re: PFU HHKB 100$ vs 400$?
Post by: BucklingSpring on Mon, 02 December 2013, 18:44:23
Quote from: hasu on Mon, 02 December 2013, 18:35:40
Reportedly amazon.co.jp sold pro2 at $60 a couple days ago. wtf.
They seemed to place wrong price tag on them.

ok find it now and PM me. I'll send you a 10$ paypal finder's fee.
Title: Re: PFU HHKB 100$ vs 400$?
Post by: tuxsavvy on Mon, 02 December 2013, 19:29:48
Hahaha, $60 for HHKB Pro2 is an insanely real bargain. It could just be the seller's/shop's fault for incorrectly placed advertised price. I don't think one would be able to purchase a real HHKB Pro2 at that price as soon as the seller/shop realises where they went wrong. Even more so would probably be some sort of explanation would have been provided to those whom have already paid the price for the said item (despite wearing incorrect price tag) and maybe refund the customer's money.
Title: Re: PFU HHKB 100$ vs 400$?
Post by: tuxsavvy on Mon, 02 December 2013, 19:53:28
Quote from: tjcaustin on Sun, 01 December 2013, 17:27:10
Quote from: Awful on Sun, 01 December 2013, 16:43:14
^Bam! Plus, I'd never buy a Leo :\

You are aware that realforce is a leopold company, right?

lolwut at the bolded statement:
Versus:
Realforce is based in Japan, has been around longer than Leopold and from what I can understand if one sources a Realforce TKL from Japan it would be cheaper than buying FC660C locally (if not residing in Korea). Besides Leopold has founded much later than Realforce, is based in Korea and FC660C is known to have key legends wearing off the keycap for that model (so far). Realforce mostly uses dye sublimation which are far less prone to legends wearing off even if lasered in, it would not wear off as easily.

Seriously I do not know if serious or trolling.
Title: Re: PFU HHKB 100$ vs 400$?
Post by: Flyersfan1 on Mon, 02 December 2013, 20:01:56
Quote from: tuxsavvy on Mon, 02 December 2013, 19:53:28
Quote from: tjcaustin on Sun, 01 December 2013, 17:27:10
Quote from: Awful on Sun, 01 December 2013, 16:43:14
^Bam! Plus, I'd never buy a Leo :\

You are aware that realforce is a leopold company, right?

lolwut at the bolded statement:
  • http://deskthority.net/wiki/Realforce (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Realforce) -- "Realforce (typeset REΛLFORCE) is a brand of keyboard produced by Topre (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Topre) since 2001. Topre have been making capacitive (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Contact_mechanism#Capacitive) switch keyboards since 1983[1] (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Realforce#cite_note-0) for various companies in fields such as banking, broadcasting and data entry. Realforce is their first keyboard targeted at general consumers."
  • http://deskthority.net/wiki/Topre (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Topre) -- "Topre is a Japanese engineering company that makes pressing parts, air conditioning equipment, computer parts and various other electronic and electro-mechanical devices. Topre is known among mechanical keyboard enthusiasts for its development of the Topre capacitive switch (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Topre_switch)."
Versus:
  • http://deskthority.net/wiki/Leopold (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Leopold) -- "Leopold is a Korean company and online shop focusing around the development, production and retail sale of keyboards and keyboard related products. Leopold has been founded in 2006, and has been selling their own Leopold branded products and third party products since."
Realforce is based in Japan, has been around longer than Leopold and from what I can understand if one sources a Realforce TKL from Japan it would be cheaper than buying FC660C locally (if not residing in Korea). Besides Leopold has founded much later than Realforce, is based in Korea and FC660C is known to have key legends wearing off the keycap for that model (so far). Realforce mostly uses dye sublimation which are far less prone to legends wearing off even if lasered in, it would not wear off as easily.

Seriously I do not know if serious or trolling.
I'm a little confused, mostly because there seems to be some Leopold branding on Realforce packaging and keyboards.
(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o519/exhale85/Realforce%2087U/af8f3871.jpg)
Also: 4th image on http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,rftenkeyless&pid=rf_se0900# (http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,rftenkeyless&pid=rf_se0900#)

Title: Re: PFU HHKB 100$ vs 400$?
Post by: tuxsavvy on Mon, 02 December 2013, 20:58:08
Quote from: Flyersfan1 on Mon, 02 December 2013, 20:01:56
Quote from: tuxsavvy on Mon, 02 December 2013, 19:53:28
Quote from: tjcaustin on Sun, 01 December 2013, 17:27:10
Quote from: Awful on Sun, 01 December 2013, 16:43:14
^Bam! Plus, I'd never buy a Leo :\

You are aware that realforce is a leopold company, right?

lolwut at the bolded statement:
  • http://deskthority.net/wiki/Realforce (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Realforce) -- "Realforce (typeset REΛLFORCE) is a brand of keyboard produced by Topre (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Topre) since 2001. Topre have been making capacitive (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Contact_mechanism#Capacitive) switch keyboards since 1983[1] (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Realforce#cite_note-0) for various companies in fields such as banking, broadcasting and data entry. Realforce is their first keyboard targeted at general consumers."
  • http://deskthority.net/wiki/Topre (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Topre) -- "Topre is a Japanese engineering company that makes pressing parts, air conditioning equipment, computer parts and various other electronic and electro-mechanical devices. Topre is known among mechanical keyboard enthusiasts for its development of the Topre capacitive switch (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Topre_switch)."
Versus:
  • http://deskthority.net/wiki/Leopold (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Leopold) -- "Leopold is a Korean company and online shop focusing around the development, production and retail sale of keyboards and keyboard related products. Leopold has been founded in 2006, and has been selling their own Leopold branded products and third party products since."
Realforce is based in Japan, has been around longer than Leopold and from what I can understand if one sources a Realforce TKL from Japan it would be cheaper than buying FC660C locally (if not residing in Korea). Besides Leopold has founded much later than Realforce, is based in Korea and FC660C is known to have key legends wearing off the keycap for that model (so far). Realforce mostly uses dye sublimation which are far less prone to legends wearing off even if lasered in, it would not wear off as easily.

Seriously I do not know if serious or trolling.
I'm a little confused, mostly because there seems to be some Leopold branding on Realforce packaging and keyboards.
Show Image
(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o519/exhale85/Realforce%2087U/af8f3871.jpg)

Also: 4th image on http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,rftenkeyless&pid=rf_se0900# (http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,rftenkeyless&pid=rf_se0900#)
Neither are my replacment key cap sets have the words Leopold or Leopold's logo on it. Here is the one for Realforce replacement key cap set. The box on the bottom is the PFU HHKB replacement key cap set;
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-00YxMN1nBaI/UoGYIbx8seI/AAAAAAAAAJk/4MbftjSLSpE/s1600/20131112_017.jpg)

The label for the HHKB replacement key cap set is printed on the top of the box rather than on the left side of the box. I guess this might be similar to how the photo you provided looked like except the photos here in question are key cap sets not keyboard itself:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9qQ-BVKgwzU/UoGYGwv-S1I/AAAAAAAAAJY/iuAR0xqRttk/s1600/20131112_015.jpg)
Maybe there has been a recent change of hands when it comes to certain boards being manufactured?
Title: Re: PFU HHKB 100$ vs 400$?
Post by: bcd87 on Tue, 03 December 2013, 01:03:58
I thought the Leopold branding was because the uniform Realforce models are made for Leopold, just like how the 104UB-DK is made for Ducky.
Can anyone confirm?

Edit:
Pictures of the 104UB-DK don't show a reference to Ducky on the box or board. There is a Ducky Channel keypuller included in the package though.
http://bbs.duowan.com/thread-34781647-1-1.html
Title: Re: PFU HHKB 100$ vs 400$?
Post by: Flyersfan1 on Tue, 03 December 2013, 09:35:48
Quote from: bcd87 on Tue, 03 December 2013, 01:03:58
I thought the Leopold branding was because the uniform Realforce models are made for Leopold, just like how the 104UB-DK is made for Ducky.
Can anyone confirm?

Edit:
Pictures of the 104UB-DK don't show a reference to Ducky on the box or board. There is a Ducky Channel keypuller included in the package though.
http://bbs.duowan.com/thread-34781647-1-1.html
I could see that being why, but looking at the product shots of some other uniform models on EK, there's no Leopold logo.  It could be those are little outdated though.