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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: medvednic on Thu, 05 December 2013, 04:06:16
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Hello,
I've wanted to hear some opinions about the new KBT pure pro (the one with the arrow keys), regarding build quality (btw is it plate mounted?) and overall satisfaction with the device.
I personally think that once there will be a listing at massdrop I will get one (because the only ones that are available now are white keyd ones and I want black), I think that the layout is perfect and I even decided not to buy a Shine 3 because of this.
the only thing that is quite bothering me is the mini USB connection which seems prone to breaking because of its location on the frame (although it is common on most space saving boards).
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I don't have the said keyboard so I cannot comment much personally on the said product.
However I would like to point out that with KBT Pure Pro comes with two versions. One is ABS which has backlit functionality (has all these other ISO layout) whilst the PBT one has no backlit functionality and is ANSI layout only.
Now with that point being mentioned. According to deskthority wiki on key cap construction. PBT key caps in general are less prone to yellowing than ABS plastic. Because KBT Pure comes out in only black or charcoal gray like colour such yellowing will not be easily seen on ABS based key caps. The shiny factor with ABS plastic maybe the intermediate results of what will later on become yellow for ABS plastic however that is not noted on the deskthority wiki but of a more personal note.
A bit of a comment on PBT based key caps is that they are mostly found on Topre branded boards. Some would like to label Topre boards as expensive but in most cases the Topre board in question will have be a PBT based key cap rather than ABS based key cap. Therefore it maybe seen as PBT key caps aren't as cheap and as common as ABS based keycap.
Sources:
- http://kbtrace.com/kbtpure/kbt-pure.html?limit=all
- http://deskthority.net/wiki/Keycap_construction
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the ones that I saw at qtans and massdrop are ANSI pbt caps, although I might consider the backlit abs one.
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I've wanted to hear some opinions about the new KBT pure pro (the one with the arrow keys), regarding build quality (btw is it plate mounted?) and overall satisfaction with the device.
The Pure Pro is plate mounted. I have a normal Pure and the build quality is quite good imo.
I think that the layout is perfect and I even decided not to buy a Shine 3 because of this.
Personally I think the Pure Pro has one of the worst layouts. I think it was Buckling Spring who bought a Pure Pro and thought he would like the layout as well and ended up disliking it quite a bit. Please also take a look at the function layer when you judge the layout.
the only thing that is quite bothering me is the mini USB connection which seems prone to breaking because of its location on the frame (although it is common on most space saving boards).
Most keyboards use Mini USB connectors and they rarely seem to fail. Of course you shouldn't rip your cables out...
PBT key caps in general are less prone to yellowing than ABS plastic. Because KBT Pure comes out in only black or charcoal gray like colour such yellowing will not be easily seen on ABS based key caps.
Yellowing would take quite a while to be visible, and as you said since the caps are black that is not an issue at all.
The shiny factor with ABS plastic maybe the intermediate results of what will later on become yellow for ABS plastic however that is not noted on the deskthority wiki but of a more personal note.
Shine should not be related to yellowing, old plastic is usually yellowed evenly and not primarily on areas which get touched more often (i.e. old keyboards have yellowed cases and caps).
A bit of a comment on PBT based key caps is that they are mostly found on Topre branded boards.
Not really true. Quite a few keyboards come with PBT caps: Poker 2, Pure, Pure Pro, some Duckys, some Keycool boards...
Therefore it maybe seen as PBT key caps aren't as cheap and as common as ABS based keycap.
PBT is less prune to developing shine and is afaik a more expensive plastic. However ABS vs. PBT is a question of preference.
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Personally I think the Pure Pro has one of the worst layouts. I think it was Buckling Spring who bought a Pure Pro and thought he would like the layout as well and ended up disliking it quite a bit. Please also take a look at the function layer when you judge the layout.
I looked at it, and it quite satisfies me, I don't use the F keys, and when I do use them I won't care to add an FN key to activate them... same goes for the home/end keys.
btw, the main usage of this keyboard will be for programming (SE student).
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I looked at it, and it quite satisfies me, I don't use the F keys, and when I do use them I won't care to add an FN key to activate them... same goes for the home/end keys.
Than that shouldn't be an issue.
Have a look at Buckling Springs post here:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50523.msg1139329#msg1139329
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PBT key caps in general are less prone to yellowing than ABS plastic. Because KBT Pure comes out in only black or charcoal gray like colour such yellowing will not be easily seen on ABS based key caps.
Yellowing would take quite a while to be visible, and as you said since the caps are black that is not an issue at all.
Yeah though shiny factor still remains. Even if the key cap is made of dark paint which is furthermore resistant to yellowing for instance it still isn't going to be completely resistant to shiny factor.
The shiny factor with ABS plastic maybe the intermediate results of what will later on become yellow for ABS plastic however that is not noted on the deskthority wiki but of a more personal note.
Shine should not be related to yellowing, old plastic is usually yellowed evenly and not primarily on areas which get touched more often (i.e. old keyboards have yellowed cases and caps).
I actually thought the shiny factor might also be related to the fact that one maybe using keyboards with oily hands. There could be a few possible causes of this such as:
- One is eating food with bare hands and then later on smearing them onto key caps as they type. For example eating pizza in front of computer and then chatting away by typing on the keyboard.
- Naturally oily/greasy hands which often leaves marks on places (usually porous surfaces are the most susceptible I believe).
I don't know much about yellowing, have thought that the yellowing factor could be a combination of one's greasy/oily hands combined with exposure to natural environments such as sun, dust, etc leads to yellowing. However you mentioned that it should be evenly spread across the keyboard and the keys so it might indeed not be the result of environmental exposure.
Then again, another question comes to mind, according to deskthority wiki yellowing is a gradual process when such plastic is subjected to ultraviolet light or sunlight:
ABS (and other polystyrene blends) will gradually turn yellow over time when subjected to ultraviolet light, a component of sunlight.
If say theoretically a ABS based keyboard is being placed under direct exposure for extended periods of time but because of the exact area in which the keyboard is placed in under the exposure of sunlight is very narrow (such as on a certain area near the narrow window sill but the window sill is partly covered by some other material which usually blocks UV lights). Wouldn't only the exposed keyboard area (that has been mostly exposed to sunlight constantly at various angles of the day) be yellowed as opposed to having the entire keyboard being equally yellowed? I mean even if the other parts of the keyboard that are not exposed to the sunlight at all would also gets treated the same way regardless? What about also on the back of the keyboard considering most people do not leave their keyboards laying upside down in front of a computer whilst connected?
A bit of a comment on PBT based key caps is that they are mostly found on Topre branded boards.
Not really true. Quite a few keyboards come with PBT caps: Poker 2, Pure, Pure Pro, some Duckys, some Keycool boards...
Thanks, I don't know much from the Cherry MX range but have seen at times certain Cherry MX boards are using ABS plastic or even those aftermarket key caps seems to be offered at times as ABS as opposed to PBT.
Maybe I should have pointed that out earlier as I do now recall that some Ducky did have PBT key caps in their range. Although rare (limited production or otherwise) it is not the standard.
Also I was intending to say that the PBT key caps is being used right throughout the range. For instance all PFU HHKB Pro are PBT based, you don't have ABS mixed within the same "family", the same goes with Realforce keyboards with all keyboards are PBT and no ABS.
Ducky for instance or Poker II is offered in both ABS or PBT however ABS range is more diverse than PBT.
Therefore it maybe seen as PBT key caps aren't as cheap and as common as ABS based keycap.
PBT is less prune to developing shine and is afaik a more expensive plastic. However ABS vs. PBT is a question of preference.
Definitely I can agree that PBT is less vulnerable to shining/yellowing, also that is usually seen as more expensive grade/type of plastic.
On the subject of personal preferences, I can partly agree with. In most cases that is true at the end of the day regardless of whichever one chooses, PBT, ABS, POM, PVC, etc however between ABS and PBT alone PBT seems slightly more beneficial. Possibly as a more logical point of view PBT is really beneficial mainly in terms of where shiny/yellowing factor is of one's concern.
Inevitably PBT may not be entirely more superior to ABS apart from a few specific factors (due to the type of chemical/material used is completely different needless to say) PBT is often somewhat well regarded as those seeking for better quality. Granted also that PBT is not completely immune to shine as that will eventually happen but on a much slower rate than say ABS.
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The Pure Pro is my favorite keyboard by a fair margin at this point. I've got it with the ABS caps, and I've been using it for notes every day for a month. It shines, but not much. The USB port is actually fairly solid, so I wouldn't worry about it breaking.
Also, yellowing is NOT a factor in buying white keycaps. It only happens if you don't use them for a long (read:several years) period of time.
More here: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50739.0
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The usb connector on mine is loose around the edges. Like it's hole got all stretched out, but it was like that brand new :(
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Mine is spanking new... I'm pleased with the built quality. I just don't like the small RSHIFT configuration and that's why it is for sale/trade now.
If interested, PM me.
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btw does is the size of pure's spacebar uniqe or will I be able to find replacements?
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btw does is the size of pure's spacebar uniqe or will I be able to find replacements?
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Found this post trying to read up on the pure pro.
medvednic, looks like the pure pro has hit massdrop if you or anyone else was interested.
personally, i'm waiting for more information about the Race II they were promising for "beginning January 2014".
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I love the Pure's layout, it's great especially for a 60% board which I inherently hate. Mini USB connector's however are the work of the Devil and will be **** on any peice of technology they are attached to. You just need to be careful with them, no bending, excessive unplugging and replugging. It's really just the technology of the mini USB is poorly designed, nothing to do with the Pure.
Any standard space bar will fit it, it's that right side short-shift that needs special attention.
edit: rezed thread :-\
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Any standard space bar will fit it, it's that right side short-shift that needs special attention.
Pure Pro, not the normal Pure. The Pure Pro has a bunch of non-standard keys.