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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: tweetiepig on Sat, 07 December 2013, 10:31:26
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Hi,
I was rummaging through some old boxes the other day and came across my old Apple Standard keyboard, model M0116. So I popped it on the desk and had a try, and it actually feels really good - I can type fast on this thing (probably faster than on my beloved Unicomp Customizer with its buckling springs). The keys don't travel that far but far enough, there isn't much resistance though it is firm enough, they snap back quickly, and there's not a whole lot of clatter. I used this Apple as my main keyboard for a while back in the 1990s, and I had forgotten how good it felt. If I could plug it into my PC today I would use it, but unfortunately it has an ADB interface, and in any case it doesn't have the right keys for Windows.
So... can anyone recommend a USB PC keyboard that feels similar to the old Apple Standard Keyboard model M0116? It seems to use ALPS orange switches, but there doesn't seem to be an obvious modern equivalent.
Thank you!
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The keyswitches are Salmon ALPS.
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Apple_Standard_Keyboard
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCM_Salmon
If you love this keyboard so much, why not get a converter for ADB to USB instead of getting a different keyboard that you may not like as much? I can see ones selling for $25 on eBay. That isn't all that much to get your beloved keyboard up and running on modern PCs.
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The keyswitches are Salmon ALPS.
There was also an orange ALPS version. (better than the salmon/pink one)
The problem with the M0116 is the layout and lack of certain keys. That's why the original poster wants a modern equivalent.
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Is this the keyboard you are referring to? It is nice. I think the adaptor is the way to go.
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I don't think there's a modern equivalent. If you want the exact same feel with a more useful layout, get an M0115 with orange ALPS and an ADB to USB adapter.
(http://deskthority.net/w/images/thumb/1/1a/Apple_M0115_top.jpg/800px-Apple_M0115_top.jpg)
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Probably Matias Mini Quiet Pro.
[Edit: I don't have an orange Alps keyboard, but my Matias quiet switch feels a lot like my orange Alps switch. My Quiet Pro feels far better than either black or salmon Alps; orange appears to be the second best of the tactile switches (after brown), and lighter with it, and Matias switches are likewise a lighter weight]
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Is there really a difference between Salmon and Orange Alps? At the DT keyboard party this summer, I put a Apple keyboard with Salmon Alps next to another Apple keyboard with Orange Alps and tried to tell if there was a difference, but I couldn't feel any.
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Probably Matias Mini Quiet Pro.
[Edit: I don't have an orange Alps keyboard, but my Matias quiet switch feels a lot like my orange Alps switch. My Quiet Pro feels far better than either black or salmon Alps; orange appears to be the second best of the tactile switches (after brown), and lighter with it, and Matias switches are likewise a lighter weight]
What is your favorite quiet alps board? I love the Granite even more than the MQP...
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What is your favorite quiet alps board? I love the Granite even more than the MQP...
I don't have that many keyboards (dozens, not hundreds). I don't have a cream (damped) keyboard of any kind, so I have no comparisons to make. I'm not a huge fan of quiet keyboards anyway — I would have preferred Matias to make a Quiet Pro, Tactile Pro (undamped tactile) and Click Pro (damped clicky).
Is there really a difference between Salmon and Orange Alps? At the DT keyboard party this summer, I put a Apple keyboard with Salmon Alps next to another Apple keyboard with Orange Alps and tried to tell if there was a difference, but I couldn't feel any.
In 1994, the Alps catalogue listed black and green tactile; the latter is shown with (and I've not seen this) a "force diagram ... close to that of menbrane switch". [Sandy] Green tactile has never been confirmed, but there's an Overclockers UK forum topic with a photo depicting Alps switches, including a green one with apparently no LED cutout, which implies that it is this mystery SKCMAT tactile. I don't especially want to join another forum just to speak to the guy ... I hate leaving dead users lying around on other forums.
According to MouseFan, orange, salmon and black were all sold at the same time for several years, though orange was introduced a year early (without a logo) and salmon and orange ended production long before black. We know black is different (the force curve has been measured to match exactly how it feels), but the orange/salmon difference is not known — Silencium did not measure every colour. Sandy suggests that the M0116 I had—with quite stiff switches—could have been in bad condition, i.e. salmon should be closer to orange, while the orange that I have feels similar to a Matias switch (I forget if those are 60, 65 or 70 gf). I am not sure — it was visibly close to NIB, inside and out, spotlessly clean.
However, the definition of "orange" is not precise. For example, orange was originally grey switchplate, no logo (alps.tw's example). Then long white switchplate, without logo (the one I got from MrInterface). Then, the logo was added (sandy's), and finally I presume it became short white switchplate accordingly as with salmon, white and black. Since blue and white differ, orange could have experienced similar changes in feel throughout its revisions.
There's a lot of confusion remaining. For example, Alps also sold "taxi yellow" linear switches. Not all the known switches have pages up on the wiki yet.
This is why I want to see photos of Alps keyboards from everyone, so that we can get a better idea of what was sold and when.
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I have never tried a programmed Teensy, but I did use a Griffin iMate ADB-USB adapter for a long time.
If that is your plan, don't get your hopes up. The adapter or driver frequently hung, where a key would get stuck repeating and I'd have to hot plug the USB cable to get things working again. Responses seemed slow. Some function keys wouldn't be recognized properly (at least when connected to a Windows machine)
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If you like the feel of the M0116, I recommend the Apple Extended Keyboard(M0115), which has a modern layout. I've been using one for almost a year now in conjunction with a Belkin ADB adapter. I also own a Griffin iMate, as well, and never had a problem.
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May I recommend ... hooking it up to a Teensy and getting it working on a USB interface!!! I did it myself and did not experience lag or dropped keys as opposed to Griffin iMate as described by someone a few posts up.
In fact I just posted about the process yesterday:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52616.0
(sorry for shameless plug)
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May I recommend ... hooking it up to a Teensy and getting it working on a USB interface!!! I did it myself and did not experience lag or dropped keys as opposed to Griffin iMate as described by someone a few posts up.
If you can find one, it's much simpler to buy a Belkin ADB adapter, which has been confirmed (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=11839.0) by numerous Geekhackers (myself included) to work.