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geekhack Projects => Making Stuff Together! => Topic started by: Adelhyde on Sat, 07 December 2013, 13:56:10

Title: Keyboard layout idea - five rows only with all function and numeric keys
Post by: Adelhyde on Sat, 07 December 2013, 13:56:10: (http://s14.postimg.org/sdggdwigx/Stormcloud4.png)

Hi everyone,

I thought I'd share a keyboard layout design I've been mulling over. It's derived from a design I posted here a couple years ago:

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=25787.0

I like it from a usability perspective and I also think there's a good business case for it. The image above was made using the CC-licensed Colemak layout SVG from DreymaR, which was featured in this thread:

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?9095-Tools-for-keyboard-layout-sketches-%28not-for-remapping%29

Some of the main points of interest:

-There are only 5 rows of keys.

-The function keys are are arranged in three columns to the left of the main area. This makes it easy to type modifier plus function key combinations, and it's a lot easier to pivot your hand sideways to reach the function keys than to reach all the way up.

-The Esc key replaces the grave key and is much faster to reach. The grave key has a new home to the right of a shortened right Shift key. The grave is another kind of quotation mark, so it makes sense for it to be near the other quotation mark key. It's now also very easy for *nix users to type paths that begin with ~/.

-This layout has a numeric keypad instead of a nav cluster. The keypad is just 3 keys wide. The traditional numeric keypad Enter key is redundant since this layout puts the other Enter key so close already. The plus key replaces Num Lock, which is now toggled by pressing Shift + Caps Lock. Other keys are moved and resized to fit.

-The Ins and Del keys on the numpad have switched places, making Delete more easy to access. How many people ever use Insert?

-The 5 key now functions as a second "down" key so you don't have to reach down to press 8. I think the home row is a more comfortable place for your fingers to rest while navigating than the bottom row. There are a few applications that use the neutral numpad 5 key, so it could be switchable in firmware.

I see a number of advantages with this layout. For one, the fact that there are two identical keybanks on either side of the main area. You could switch positions of the numpad and function keys for left-handed users, and since the keys in the side banks are all the same size it would be easy to print custom keysets for them with things like POS functions. You could also set up a tenkeyless-style nav cluster in place of the numpad, all you would need to do is remove the 5 unneeded keys and put plastic spacers in their places.

For keyboard manufacturers, this could be attractive because it would allow them to sell keyboards with customized keybanks without much need to set up special tooling for individual customers. This could put custom keyboards within the reach of institutional customers who would have balked at the price of custom keyboard design before. Good firmware on the controller would make it possible to easily implement these custom layouts, and even allow programming by skilled end users.

So in a nutshell, it's a compact and highly customizable layout that allows many keys to be reached more quickly than before. I also like the aesthetics of a narrow, mostly symmetrical keyboard with only two thin gaps separating the keybanks on its surface. The case could simply be a lengthened version of a Poker/GH60-type case.

What do you think?
Title: Re: Keyboard layout idea - five rows only with all function and numeric keys
Post by: metalliqaz on Sat, 07 December 2013, 14:33:50: It's cool. I don't know if I could get used to the numpad arrows instead of the inverted-T. Otherwise, very compact and covers pretty much everything!
Title: Re: Keyboard layout idea - five rows only with all function and numeric keys
Post by: MKULTRA on Sat, 07 December 2013, 14:44:49: Very similar to the KMAC Mini. I think reaching the function row with that would be uncomfortable, my pinky doesn't cover that span easily.
Title: Re: Keyboard layout idea - five rows only with all function and numeric keys
Post by: Adelhyde on Mon, 09 December 2013, 01:17:52: Thanks metalliqaz, one advantage of this layout is that manufacturers could easily offer a version of this board with the inverted T with no change to the PCB or tooling. And users could do it too by getting and swapping in the appropriate keys. You'd end up with 5 unused keys, but maybe something else could be done with those.

For reaching the function row, I find it pretty easy to do on a Northgate keyboard that has two columns of function keys like that KMAC Mini board. I just need to rotate my wrist a bit, whereas to press most function keys I need to lift my entire arm, and I have big hands.
Title: Keyboard layout idea - five rows only with all function and numeric keys
Post by: BlackWidowMan777 on Mon, 09 December 2013, 02:17:41: This is very impressive and clearly explained thank you. Could you envisage detachable function and number pads? That is three separate units?

I think it's very clever as is!
Title: Re: Keyboard layout idea - five rows only with all function and numeric keys
Post by: Oobly on Mon, 09 December 2013, 07:33:21: It's interesting, but not a layout I would enjoy using right away. The function key block would take a LOT of getting used to.

In other words, I prefer a TKL. Horizontal desk space is more valuable to me than vertical.

I get the value of it being easy to customise, though, and if it can be made with socketed switches (five each side) and a five-key blanking plate for either side so we can have edit clusters in their proper position, I could get used to it. I don't use functions all that much.

I think some may miss having a numpad plus and enter in their usual places, though.
Title: Re: Keyboard layout idea - five rows only with all function and numeric keys
Post by: Adelhyde on Mon, 16 December 2013, 19:38:09: Thanks, BlackWidow. I thought about separate modules as well - I think the most elegant way to implement them would be daisy-chain style, with each module having a USB in and USB out port. You could connect your mouse to the unused input port. It would be expensive to produce them as individual boards but it would give you a lot of flexibility. I'm not sure what the limit would be to the number of USB boards you could daisy-chain together, though.

Re: Oobly, it would be easy to make a TKL-type model, or have socketed switches so that users could easily do it themselves. Perhaps you could have just 3 socketed switches and have the keys on either side of the up arrow key function as "forward" and "back" keys for web browsing like some laptop keyboards have.
Title: Re: Keyboard layout idea - five rows only with all function and numeric keys
Post by: Oobly on Tue, 17 December 2013, 03:48:41: Quote from: Adelhyde on Mon, 16 December 2013, 19:38:09
Thanks, BlackWidow. I thought about separate modules as well - I think the most elegant way to implement them would be daisy-chain style, with each module having a USB in and USB out port. You could connect your mouse to the unused input port. It would be expensive to produce them as individual boards but it would give you a lot of flexibility. I'm not sure what the limit would be to the number of USB boards you could daisy-chain together, though.

Re: Oobly, it would be easy to make a TKL-type model, or have socketed switches so that users could easily do it themselves. Perhaps you could have just 3 socketed switches and have the keys on either side of the up arrow key function as "forward" and "back" keys for web browsing like some laptop keyboards have.

Some great ideas there!

Perhaps the main keyboard part (60% board) can have an integrated USB hub and the side pieces can clip on mechanically, but have a standard short USB cable to hook them to the main part. Can place them in any order then and if you have a spare port you can plug the mouse in there.

Another option is having actual USB plugs and sockets on the sides of the units, but then you'd need to design them to go in one direction (since USB is a host/client protocol), say left to right and every unit will need to have an integrated hub. It would look neater, though.

In all cases the side modules can have identintical design, just different character layout programmed (F-keys layout, numpad layout, arrows and edit layout).

I like the idea of having three socketed switches and keeping the buttons on the left and right of the Up arrow. I don't use function keys that much, so I would be happy putting them on a layer and using the number key row for them for instance.
Title: Re: Keyboard layout idea - five rows only with all function and numeric keys
Post by: regack on Tue, 17 December 2013, 20:55:38: The sub-boards (3x5) would end up costing more if they each had to have everything necessary to operate standalone. I think it would end up simpler to put the control on the main 60% portion and just have the 3x5 pieces connect to that for control. If it's all in the same casing, that would be really easy with some ribbon cable. If it is meant to be detachable components, well, that would be a bit more work, but not too much.

Now I want to make it...
Title: Re: Keyboard layout idea - five rows only with all function and numeric keys
Post by: Adelhyde on Wed, 18 December 2013, 00:31:02: The 60% part being a USB hub is probably the best way to go; I thought about having ports on the sides but it would be a pain to make that work in an elegant way. Best to run the cords behind the keyboard. The daisy chain model is also pretty clumsy.

Perhaps the "extensible" model could have 4 USB ports for a max of 4 keybanks. You could do some interesting stuff with that... for instance, a combination of custom keymappings and a custom keycap set to support multiple sets of navigation keys and hotkeys for 3D editors like Blender and 3D Studio Max. You could have one set of nav keys to move the camera and another to manipulate the model.

As for a way to clip the components together, here's what I'd do: the keyboard sections would have a case that surrounds the keycaps at the front and back, but not on the sides. The sides would be completely open, exposing the bottoms of the keycaps and the switches. To close the sides off, there would be "case side modules" that you would attach to the sides of the board after putting the sections together. The side modules would serve to bind the sections together.
Title: Re: Keyboard layout idea - five rows only with all function and numeric keys
Post by: Adelhyde on Thu, 19 December 2013, 19:28:03: Regack, your idea for a ribbon cable actually sounds like the best way to do this. The 3x5 boards could be produced as separate units with pins to connect ribbon cables, and the main 60% board could have 4 connectors, allowing up to 4 sub-boards to be connected. The connections would be hidden inside the case. You would need to get a case to match the number of modules in use, but it would keep things tidy.

Making cases of different lengths should be pretty simple, since the case would just be a rectangular frame mounted on a base panel. You could make the frame out of 4 segments, only varying the width of the horizontal pieces to accommodate the number of sub-boards in use.
Title: Re: Keyboard layout idea - five rows only with all function and numeric keys
Post by: regack on Thu, 19 December 2013, 19:49:23: Quote from: Adelhyde on Thu, 19 December 2013, 19:28:03
Regack, your idea for a ribbon cable actually sounds like the best way to do this. The 3x5 boards could be produced as separate units with pins to connect ribbon cables, and the main 60% board could have 4 connectors, allowing up to 4 sub-boards to be connected. The connections would be hidden inside the case. You would need to get a case to match the number of modules in use, but it would keep things tidy.

Making cases of different lengths should be pretty simple, since the case would just be a rectangular frame mounted on a base panel. You could make the frame out of 4 segments, only varying the width of the horizontal pieces to accommodate the number of sub-boards in use.

I was playing with the 3x5 board today because... I dunno apparently I need more stuff to distract me or something. I added optional footprints for 2x keys - no stabilizers though. Pads on both the left and right side of the board, and provisions for LEDs. Working on it helps me think about how it might all go together.

Also, there was this thing jdcarpe posted somewhere with like a million keys on it.. and I was trying to figure out how I would make it with the least number of PCBs... and this is sort of related... 60% base, with add-on pieces. I'd love to find some kind of modular connectors that would be good for edge-to-edge connection. I found great little mezzanine-like connectors, but not edge-to-edge... that would be really fun for making pluggable bits.
Title: Re: Keyboard layout idea - five rows only with all function and numeric keys
Post by: Adelhyde on Thu, 19 December 2013, 22:21:18: Edge to edge would be tough... also kind of unstable. Flex the keyboard the wrong way and the connectors could break. I think a mezzanine connector would work well as long as you have space for it in the case. It also opens the door for some really exotic configurations re: boards with a million keys. You could put 3x5 pads above the 60% board for users who desire a truly massive number of function keys.

The cool thing is since the GH60 PCB already exists, this could simply be an evolution of that design. Add the connectors to the GH60 and you're ready to extend it with the 3x5 pads. You could call it the GH60+ board. And allowing for 2x keys on the pads would be great!
Title: Re: Keyboard layout idea - five rows only with all function and numeric keys
Post by: Oobly on Fri, 20 December 2013, 02:19:43: You could possibly use edge connectors something similar to what MS used on the X6:

(http://www.everythingusb.com/images/list/ms-sidewinder-x6-magnetic.jpg)

Problem is it doesn't have many contacts. The X6 uses magnets to hold the numpad in place. The connector is shorter than a USB and has a little freedom in flex.

Mezzanine connectors are probably better for this project, actually. Can just run the existing row lines out both ends and have 3 column lines (from the controller) to each side and possibly some LED lines. That's 8 + LED's, so it can be fairly small.
Title: Re: Keyboard layout idea - five rows only with all function and numeric keys
Post by: regack on Fri, 20 December 2013, 07:25:36: Quote from: Oobly on Fri, 20 December 2013, 02:19:43
You could possibly use edge connectors something similar to what MS used on the X6:

Show Image
(http://www.everythingusb.com/images/list/ms-sidewinder-x6-magnetic.jpg)

Problem is it doesn't have many contacts. The X6 uses magnets to hold the numpad in place. The connector is shorter than a USB and has a little freedom in flex.

Mezzanine connectors are probably better for this project, actually. Can just run the existing row lines out both ends and have 3 column lines (from the controller) to each side and possibly some LED lines. That's 8 + LED's, so it can be fairly small.

I'll look for something that works on the board edge, like what you posted there, I hadn't seen anything like that before. The 40 & 50 pin mezzanine connectors I found worked great for my little atmega controller. There has to be something reasonably priced that could do this pretty easily on the edge.

Quote
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/4pqEZwkl.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/AfpgVzLl.jpg)