geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: longrunner on Sun, 08 December 2013, 15:30:41
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I'm sorry that this is my first post, but I've been struggling with these two keyboards for months now. I've searched the forums and the internet at large for a way to get either of these keyboardst to work on a modern windows 7/8 64 bit pc. (They were gifts, I don't know really know much about their history). I don't have the ability to test them on a ps/2 PC right now but might get the chance around the holidays when I visit my parents who have an older pc.
One is an IBM Model F, the other is a RT-101 branded under Arche. They both have 6 pin DIN connectors which I've converted to PS/2 using an adapter from Monopirce (typically good quality, I bought 2). The model F has not indicator lights, the Arche has lights and also a AT/PC switch (its set to PC now).
I've tried 3 different 'Active' adapters on these things, including a belkin F5U119vE1 (off ebay), the Ziotek 'blue cube' (amazon) and a no-name one from ebay as well. None of them worked, they seem to supply power to the Arche as lights can be turned on, but once I push a button they deactivate.
I've tried plugging them into the adapter straight from the PC, I've tried using them with two different powered USB hubs, I've rebooted after connecting them since they aren't hot swap-able. I've also tried connecting them to multiple PC's with no luck.
Here's a link to some pictures of them, I didn't want to upload to many to the forum servers. https://www.dropbox.com/sc/9jkessgnahy02jj/rrwRTmhR94
These keyboards both have a great feel to them, and I'd love to be able to use at least one of them as my office keyboard.
Any suggestions? I didn't have the USB hubs until after I returned the Ziotek adapter, could my belkin be counterfeit? (Many reviews say it works with the Model M). I'd really love to get these things working.
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Just for some clarification, the RT-101+ has NMB switches, and the F uses buckling springs
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The Model F is XT, not AT. You cannot convert it to PS2 or USB very easily. I'm sure there are converters for that, but the best option is to make Soarer's Converter: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=17458.0 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=17458.0)
The other one has an option of AT or PC. I don't know what PC is although I'd imagine it to be XT. Either way, if you use it through Soarer's then you won't have to worry about the switch position (PC might not have indicator lights if it is actually XT, but you can find out). If you make the converter and the keyboards are functional, you'll be able to use them over USB.
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the best option is to make Soarer's Converter: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=17458.0 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=17458.0)
And if you want a store-bought converter that you can plug and play, buy the Hagstrom for triple the money and get less flexibility.
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Thanks for the info, I didn't realize I'd need to build a special adapter for it but I guess that makes sense. I guess I've got a project for the Holidays now.
For the RT-101 does anyone know anything about it, is it AT or RT? If I flip the switch over to AT would an adapter work?
Thanks again for all of the advice!
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For the RT-101 does anyone know anything about it, is it AT or RT? If I flip the switch over to AT would an adapter work?
From the sounds of it, the keyboard is programmed for both AT and "PC" whatever format that is (once again, I think it is XT). It should work if you flip the switch to AT. That is what your converters that you've already purchased will be expecting.
It's not a guarantee because sometimes things break or don't function exactly the way they should, but I highly doubt that it's broken given the reliability of a lot of old hardware.
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Has anyone written up a step by step instruction on how to physically solder the board? I'm decent with diagrams, but not so good with doing the math myself. The most I've ever done is install car electronics.
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One of the attachments here should have diagrams that tell you what to hook to what: http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/xt-at-ps2-terminal-to-usb-converter-with-nkro-t2510.html (http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/xt-at-ps2-terminal-to-usb-converter-with-nkro-t2510.html)
I recommend using a female PS2 port soldered to the Teensy because that allows for the most versatility without having to re-solder the converter.
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One of the attachments here should have diagrams that tell you what to hook to what: http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/xt-at-ps2-terminal-to-usb-converter-with-nkro-t2510.html (http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/xt-at-ps2-terminal-to-usb-converter-with-nkro-t2510.html)
I recommend using a female PS2 port soldered to the Teensy because that allows for the most versatility without having to re-solder the converter.
Thanks! But I looked at those before posting and didn't see what I was looking for. :-/
But, on a separate note flipping that switch over to AT totally fixed the Arche keyboard, and I'm typing on it as we speak. Its very different my my MX blue and the angle of the space bar is weird but still better than an mushy dome keyboard.
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"Soarer_Converter_v1.12_docs.zip" is the one you want for the documentation and pictures.
"Soarer_Converter_v1.12_update.zip" is the actual files for programming the Teensy.
The only connections that you should be worried about are: Ground (GND), Data, Clock and +5v (Vcc).
I've attached the images that will be of most use to you. Remember that the picture is looking into a female socket, not into the connector on the end of the cable.
(http://www.kbdbabel.org/conn/kbd_connector_ps2.png)
[attach=1]
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Thanks, that all makes a lot more sense now. It was just information overload at first.
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Thanks, that all makes a lot more sense now. It was just information overload at first.
I know. That happened my first time to GeekHack and again when I was looking on how to make the converter my first time. So much stuff and you don't need it all, only the immediately important bits.
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Thanks, that all makes a lot more sense now. It was just information overload at first.
Glad you got the answer you needed.
Now: be very careful not to mix up power (VCC) and ground. Notice the image is drawn of the socket on the back of the terminal (or the socket you use to wire up the converterbox). It's a little cheaper to replace the cable entirely and mount the teensy internally, but you can build a converterbox pretty easily. These are the parts I used on mine
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/New-Age-Enclosures/S1A-301210/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsrGrAVj6eTvdJ0sKoR%2fvFLLs2nLFw%2fdmY%3d
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Amphenol/T-3363-000/?qs=%2fha2pyFadujRJxz3cxHJABipgz%2fZez9LDqNaOUKbEyMGLd%2fweFs6gg%3d%3d
I used a 270 degree din jack (amphenol part number T3363-000) for a terminal connector. You'll be using a 180 degree din jack (Amphenol T3363-010) for yours.
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Amphenol-Tuchel/T-3363-010/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvf6myxbP4FpDJYY7d64fyYfCkxbIuEWAs%3d
Sorry for continuing information overload, but I can open mine up and take pictures if you like.
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Not to sound dumb, but I have one of these adapters that I ordered accidentally a year ago.
(http://www.ebay.com/itm/PS2-Keyboard-to-AT-Convertor-6-pin-Mini-Din-F-to-5-pin-Male-/380750995569?pt=US_Parallel_Serial_PS_2_Cables_Adapters&hash=item58a6872071)
If I just hack the 5 pin end off could I just solder those wires to the board (assuming I can figure out which wire goes where?).
Thanks for the links though, the box looks really nice!
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Yes. Make sure you get the connections correct, but it will do just fine. That's actually what I did at first.
I found that the cable was a bit short afterwards so I eventually replaced it with one a bit longer from a PS2 extension cable, but that was my preference.
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I've got an old cherry and an old NMB keyboard to work on my Windows 8 64 bit machine.
Have a look in your BIOS, mine has the option to disable PS/2 and you might have it disabled.
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The NMB keyboard is working perfect right now. It looks like the issue was I had it set to PC/XT mode instead of AT mode. Flipping that switch fixed it right up. But thanks for the advice, that might explain why it didn't work on my old laptop when I had it connected in AT mode.
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longrunner, I think you should explore the Making Stuff Together section. There are specific threads that give you a lot of detailed and organized information how to mod the F XT to work with USB. I used them for my modding and am very grateful to Fohat and everybody else there.
If you post here, lots of people are willing to help, but the resources already exist.