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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: C5Allroad on Thu, 12 December 2013, 15:26:57

Title: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: C5Allroad on Thu, 12 December 2013, 15:26:57
Well I think my wallet my not be prepared for this... But how does topre feel? I'm interested in a HHKB.
(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/063.gif)
 But that price tag (http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/th_109_.gif)
Either that or the Leopold FC660C.
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: hcry4 on Thu, 12 December 2013, 15:28:45
Just give in and get it.
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: C5Allroad on Thu, 12 December 2013, 15:30:29
That's the thing. I really want to but I don't know how it feels. Or what offers...
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: oTurtlez on Thu, 12 December 2013, 15:33:30
It's heavenly. Look up reviews in the reviews section of them, they're everywhere. Topre isn't for everyone, so if you don't like it, throw it up for sale here on the classifieds. Someone is sure to want it.
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: C5Allroad on Thu, 12 December 2013, 15:35:14
I hear it feels like lubed clears.
I might give in when I get a job again now that the swim season is over.
I wonder if topre is any good for gaming....
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 12 December 2013, 15:44:02
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=51698.0

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=51413.0

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49594.0

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50905.0

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40545.0
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: Photekq on Thu, 12 December 2013, 15:45:32
c'mon man there are so many threads exactly like this. this subject has been discussed an incredible amount. please use the search function.
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: C5Allroad on Thu, 12 December 2013, 15:47:03
Oh yea..... Sorry.
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: oTurtlez on Thu, 12 December 2013, 15:48:03
I hear it feels like lubed clears.
I might give in when I get a job again now that the swim season is over.
I wonder if topre is any good for gaming....

No, not at all.
I used my 87U Type S for work and it was phenomenal
It's perfectly fine for gaming. I've used it for 2 years now.
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: C5Allroad on Thu, 12 December 2013, 15:48:34
Ah ok thanks!
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: Moosecraft on Thu, 12 December 2013, 16:10:51
Yeah clears are way off from topre, to me they are closer to linear mx switches.
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: oTurtlez on Thu, 12 December 2013, 16:24:50
I still can't even compare them to any MX switch. Clears and whites are my favorite MX switches and even those are completely different from Topre. It's its own realm of feels.
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: C5Allroad on Thu, 12 December 2013, 16:35:28
I need a job. I'm looking at the post your topre and I'm very jealous....
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: VesperSAINT on Thu, 12 December 2013, 16:38:37
Where in FL? If you happen to be in Gainesville, I would let you try out a 660C, HHKB  Pro 2, Realforce 87U 55g, 23UB 45g :( I would also have a HHKB JP early January too :))

You could try ergo clears, vintage blacks, lubed browns, and blues while you're at it LOL.
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: C5Allroad on Thu, 12 December 2013, 16:41:28
Miami. That would be too far me.
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: oTurtlez on Thu, 12 December 2013, 16:42:28
Yeah, my family goes on vacation to FL often, but we're down in the Naples area :/ Sorry bud.
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: VesperSAINT on Thu, 12 December 2013, 16:42:57
Miami. That would be too far me.

True :( If I had to choose one, 55g.
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: oTurtlez on Thu, 12 December 2013, 16:48:04
Variable Silenced = <3 for me
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: C5Allroad on Thu, 12 December 2013, 16:49:20
I really do like browns and since the peak force is 55g I think I would feel at home with the topre. Now, I need to find a part-time job involving some sort of technology lol.
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: oTurtlez on Thu, 12 December 2013, 16:51:00
The forces of Topre don't really translate to the forces of MX. My 55g whites and clears felt MUCH lighter than my 45g Topre. It's a different measurement. The only way to know is to try them for yourself. I personally haven't felt 55g Topre yet.
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: PointyFox on Thu, 12 December 2013, 16:53:59
Feels like rubber dome with a spring at the bottom :P
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: C5Allroad on Thu, 12 December 2013, 16:55:11
Then what's the hype?!
I think I may try 45g when I get a bank card and a spending account since I'm 16. If I don't like it I will put it on classifieds.
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: VesperSAINT on Thu, 12 December 2013, 16:55:12
The forces of Topre don't really translate to the forces of MX. My 55g whites and clears felt MUCH lighter than my 45g Topre. It's a different measurement. The only way to know is to try them for yourself. I personally haven't felt 55g Topre yet.

55g Cherry MX usually refers to 55g springs, which is lighter than the standard 60g red/blue/brown springs. This is bottoming out weight, not actuation. Comparing the commonly referred 55g cherry to 55g Topre would be innaccurate.

The 55g Topre is also only 55g at actuation point but isn't that much more stiff than a 45g Topre in terms of overall feel. Therefore, 55g is only top heavy but once you start pressing down, it's a breeze.
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: PointyFox on Thu, 12 December 2013, 16:57:01
How much force do the springs provide?
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: VesperSAINT on Thu, 12 December 2013, 16:58:08
How much force do the springs provide?

Close to nothing, if nothing at all. The springs are not there for weight, but rather for the Capacitive switch, I believe. Take my word on close to nothing though, I've felt plenty of them :))
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: Air tree on Thu, 12 December 2013, 16:58:30
I need a job. I'm looking at the post your topre and I'm very jealous....
What do you use more anyways? Your ergodox or your topre boards?
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: PointyFox on Thu, 12 December 2013, 16:59:58
How much force do the springs provide?

Close to nothing, if nothing at all. The springs are not there for weight, but rather for the Capacitive switch, I believe. Take my word on close to nothing though, I've felt plenty of them :))

So it just feels like long throw scissor switch rubber domes?
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: VesperSAINT on Thu, 12 December 2013, 17:01:57
How much force do the springs provide?

Close to nothing, if nothing at all. The springs are not there for weight, but rather for the Capacitive switch, I believe. Take my word on close to nothing though, I've felt plenty of them :))

So it just feels like long throw scissor switch rubber domes?

... no. I've felt plenty of rubber dome keyboards in my life and always imagined Topre to feel a certain way, and was thoroughly convinced... until I actually got my first Topre. It's something else. If it felt like a standard rubber dome, I don't see why people would pay $200-400 for them.

If you have the money to spend, go get a FC660C. You won't regret it, and if you do, you can just sell it.
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: PointyFox on Thu, 12 December 2013, 17:03:24
How much force do the springs provide?

Close to nothing, if nothing at all. The springs are not there for weight, but rather for the Capacitive switch, I believe. Take my word on close to nothing though, I've felt plenty of them :))

So it just feels like long throw scissor switch rubber domes?

... no. I've felt plenty of rubber dome keyboards in my life and always imagined Topre to feel a certain way, and was thoroughly convinced... until I actually got my first Topre. It's something else. If it felt like a standard rubber dome, I don't see why people would pay $200-400 for them.

Maybe it felt like something else BECAUSE you paid $200-$400 for it?
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: Air tree on Thu, 12 December 2013, 17:07:42
How much force do the springs provide?

Close to nothing, if nothing at all. The springs are not there for weight, but rather for the Capacitive switch, I believe. Take my word on close to nothing though, I've felt plenty of them :))

So it just feels like long throw scissor switch rubber domes?

... no. I've felt plenty of rubber dome keyboards in my life and always imagined Topre to feel a certain way, and was thoroughly convinced... until I actually got my first Topre. It's something else. If it felt like a standard rubber dome, I don't see why people would pay $200-400 for them.

Maybe it felt like something else BECAUSE you paid $200-$400 for it?
Commence Topre Hate thread. (http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/87a4e689.gif)
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: VesperSAINT on Thu, 12 December 2013, 17:07:55
How much force do the springs provide?

Close to nothing, if nothing at all. The springs are not there for weight, but rather for the Capacitive switch, I believe. Take my word on close to nothing though, I've felt plenty of them :))

So it just feels like long throw scissor switch rubber domes?

... no. I've felt plenty of rubber dome keyboards in my life and always imagined Topre to feel a certain way, and was thoroughly convinced... until I actually got my first Topre. It's something else. If it felt like a standard rubber dome, I don't see why people would pay $200-400 for them.

Maybe it felt like something else BECAUSE you paid $200-$400 for it?

A person can be stubborn, but not to the point they'd make the same mistake more than once, and spend $200-400 each time.  I for one, don't have enough money to spend it on my stubborn-ness. I just happen to like how Topre feels. If scissor switches felt the same as Topre, I'd just buy the scissor switch keyboards for cheaper. Wouldn't anyone?
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: PointyFox on Thu, 12 December 2013, 17:12:46
What is the difference between ReΛlforce and Real Force keyboards?  Why do they have different names?
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: C5Allroad on Thu, 12 December 2013, 17:14:48
So are they like my membrane that's collecting dust? Do they actuate half way like cherry?
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: VesperSAINT on Thu, 12 December 2013, 17:15:36
I didn't come in here to argue. I just wanted to help answer someone's question, and I tried to do it in the most objective way possible by explaining how the switch works.

I hoped it helped :)

So are they like my membrane that's collecting dust? Do they actuate half way like cherry?

They actuate near the top. The key press is initially stiff and then gives way when the dome collapses, and it's a smooth light ride from there on.
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 12 December 2013, 17:21:22
It is kinda difficult to describe the feel of Topre.

Very few people try it and don't like it.

The majority try it and then forswear everything else.
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: C5Allroad on Thu, 12 December 2013, 17:25:52
Ok that's pretty tempting…
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: Polymer on Thu, 12 December 2013, 18:16:10
It is very much like rubber dome though...similar in feel and actuation except a lot more stable and responsive.  It also doesn't have a mushy randomish bottom out like most RD keyboards..very solid feel but you have that really smooth action of the switch.  Because it will actuate prior to bottoming out, it feels like it is more responsive than a normal rubber dome. 

If you don't like it at first..keep using it a bit...If you went from RD to Cherry and then to Topre, you may find yourself wondering why you bothered...but most people seem to come around after having used it awhile when the differences between it and a normal rubber dome start becoming very apparent. 
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: tuxsavvy on Thu, 12 December 2013, 18:19:13
What is the difference between ReΛlforce and Real Force keyboards?  Why do they have different names?
I personally believe they refer to the exact same company unless someone is trying to produce some mock up keyboards using "Real force" naming.

The company is meant to be called "Realforce" but they have used a fancy character to differentiate themselves by saying that they are "ReΛlforce". The "Λ" cannot be easily reproduced when say for instance in the context of chatting for instance, plus there are some machines that are not capable of rendering the same "glyph" hence for simplicity sake "ReΛlforce" is referred to as "Realforce".

I guess personally some people refer "Realforce" or "ReΛlforce" as "Real force" or "Real Force" is probably because the natural way in say for instance when using English the need to use spaces are apparent. "Realforce" is not an English word, "Real force" and "Real Force" may seem more appropriate as an English word even though "Real Force" is basically captalising two letters. Different people may refer to the same brand names differently. Some people even say "Microsoft" as "MicroSoft" or "Micro$oft"; "linux" as "Linux" or "GNU/Linux", etc. Different people have different ways of addressing things but I am sure they mean the exact same thing unless later on they prove they were implying something else.

Now back to the topic of Topre and HHKB, I personally would not say that it feels like a rubber dome keyboard. Sure the conical spring sits inside of a rubber dome in which when the user normally presses a key the rubber is the one that is mostly felt on the way down. However on the rebounce I believe the conical spring provides an extra feedback to the rubber dome. Besides both the conical spring with the rubber dome sits on top of a hard PCB. Not those flexible membrane boards which heavily depends on how hard one tightens the screws on the bottom of the keyboard. It is not easy to describe the feeling but declaring Topre as nothing more than "glorified rubber domes" or "rubber domes with a spring", etc is both wrong and aren't the exact best ways to describe the feeling of typing on Topre.

The best way is to really try the switches out yourself. You can read as many information scattered online as you like but they are mostly opinionated answers. The actual feeling when one tries it can be simply summarised as how a picture describes 1000 words. Maybe that is a bit of an exaggeration, but maybe around 800 words or so. Though again what comes out in a text form is still based on a person's personal perception which others may/may not agree.

There are no real losses when trying out Topre, you're (OP) living in a country where I am sure there are plenty of buyers whom will want to source a Topre board that was pre-loved should you find the switch is not suitable for your needs. Plus getting one brand new is not as expensive as say for instance if one were to be based in Europe.

Last but not least, I want to point this out...
Cloud of boobs.

Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=40582.0;attach=14215;image)

That is simply priceless.  :))
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: C5Allroad on Thu, 12 December 2013, 18:28:27
Very well said. This really makes me want to buy a topre now. I have my mind set on the HHKB or the FC660C thanks guys!
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: tuxsavvy on Thu, 12 December 2013, 18:33:11
Very well said. This really makes me want to buy a topre now. I have my mind set on the HHKB or the FC660C thanks guys!

HHKB master race! HHKB is very small and cute, plus one can buy a fancy shmancy carrying bag/case to pimp/pamper their HHKB.

Like this...
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-e5VJyS2LbW0/UnF87EvRC3I/AAAAAAAAAGU/K_StkRWI8Kg/s1600/20131030_038.jpg)

Made in the "land of rising sun":
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RSWSzMv2CrA/UnF8h6iH-dI/AAAAAAAAAE0/Pxp_ya8Mv_Y/s1600/20131030_025.jpg)
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: C5Allroad on Thu, 12 December 2013, 18:45:15
Does it come with that roof?!
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: KangarooZombies on Thu, 12 December 2013, 18:47:15
Does it come with that roof?!

No, unfortunately the roof and case are extra :/
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 12 December 2013, 18:47:35
Does it come with that roof?!

HHKB does not come standard with a roof.
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: PadawanGeek on Thu, 12 December 2013, 18:49:08
True :( If I had to choose one, 55g.
Yep, 55G is where it's at. But surprisingly, even 45G which is the same force/weight as Reds, feel absolutely fine to me. Heck, I make less typos with a Topre 45G than with any MX switch types, and I've tried six already.
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: C5Allroad on Thu, 12 December 2013, 18:50:22
Oh. :(
Well then some more money that I will need then.
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: tuxsavvy on Thu, 12 December 2013, 18:50:31
Yeah looks like I was beat. The HHKB roof is not part of it, it is an accessory by Bird Electron. Part number: RF-HH. The little legs on the keyboard roof are provided but one needs to attach them manually.

I have the information in my signature if you are curious.
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: C5Allroad on Thu, 12 December 2013, 18:53:19
Oh ok thanks.
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: Emospence on Thu, 12 December 2013, 19:18:30
They are the secks.
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: PadawanGeek on Thu, 12 December 2013, 19:34:43
They are the secks.
Whoa dude, two RF 55G and a HHKB 2? :eek: You've really taken the plunge into Topre love! :thumb:
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: neunelfer on Thu, 12 December 2013, 19:58:49
They are the secks.
Whoa dude, two RF 55G and a HHKB 2? :eek: You've really taken the plunge into Topre love! :thumb:

Says the guy with two HHKBs and two full-size Topre!
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: Sai on Thu, 12 December 2013, 20:11:38
They are the secks.
Whoa dude, two RF 55G and a HHKB 2? :eek: You've really taken the plunge into Topre love! :thumb:

Says the guy with two HHKBs and two full-size Topre!

one is not enough  ;)

To OP : you're making a good decision. I've tried topre and am in love with it.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: Emospence on Thu, 12 December 2013, 20:13:10
Whoa dude, two RF 55G and a HHKB 2? :eek: You've really taken the plunge into Topre love! :thumb:

Hehe. Looking to let go my HHKB if can find a local buyer at a decent price :s
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: oTurtlez on Thu, 12 December 2013, 20:52:52
I was strictly Topre for a while with my HHKB, RF 87u, and FC660C, but I found myself missing MX after a while, so I got back into it. My EDox is my DD for now as I'm still trying to learn the layout, but my 87u and HHKB are still my favorites by far. YMMV greatly when it comes to Topre, they all feel different from eachother, and even then, topre as it is feels completely different from everything else.
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: Canious on Thu, 19 December 2013, 22:39:56
Only way to know is to get one!
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: terran5992 on Thu, 19 December 2013, 22:50:31
Only way to know is to get one!

Sums up the whole thread
Title: Re: Interested in Topre.....
Post by: Wildcard on Sun, 22 December 2013, 21:47:13
They are the secks.
Whoa dude, two RF 55G and a HHKB 2? :eek: You've really taken the plunge into Topre love! :thumb:

Says the guy with two HHKBs and two full-size Topre!

Lol, yea that's Topre love right there :)