Just noticed this baby on a review site showing it's credentials;
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/5933/max-keyboard-blackbird-tenkeyless-mechanical-backlit-keyboard-review/index.html (http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/5933/max-keyboard-blackbird-tenkeyless-mechanical-backlit-keyboard-review/index.html)
The ONLY thing of note that has me looking, is the ALL double-shot key-caps which this keyboard uses. Forget about all that cheap-ass - sprayed on, painted rubbish, get this baby because the key-caps are definitely worth it.
You could even transfer the caps over to a future GON or TEAMREDLINE keyboard. Definitely a nice purchase just to get the double-shots which aren't readily available to buy from anywhere in the Back & White colour format, which would work with every coloured LED that was ever made.
It looks like a great keyboard, but will there be demand for a TKL that costs $150?
so.... $150...
hmmm..... ah.... if led is ur flavor,, it WOULD be technically be better value than a filco/ ducky @ this price..
It looks like a great keyboard, but will there be demand for a TKL that costs $150?
DS3 is like $140
It looks like a great keyboard, but will there be demand for a TKL that costs $150?
It looks like a great keyboard, but will there be demand for a TKL that costs $150?
It looks like a great keyboard, but will there be demand for a TKL that costs $150?
It looks like a great keyboard, but will there be demand for a TKL that costs $150?
That's how much WASD v2 and CODE keyboards went for, and there was plenty of demand for them. Ducky Shine keyboards are close to that price range as well. That's not to say that you want to sell overpriced keyboards jut because you can, but if the price can be justified, then there's going to be demand.
It looks like a great keyboard, but will there be demand for a TKL that costs $150?
That's how much WASD v2 and CODE keyboards went for, and there was plenty of demand for them. Ducky Shine keyboards are close to that price range as well. That's not to say that you want to sell overpriced keyboards jut because you can, but if the price can be justified, then there's going to be demand.
The question we manufacturers always have to gauge is how to decipher the demand and forecast it correctly. I'll give a good example: We make very high speed DDR3 memory up to 3000mhz, but at the price it has to be sold at, theres only going to be a limited handful of people buying it. The majority is always going to buy DDR3-1600mhz.
If we made a $150 TKL keyboard (similar to the one in this thread), the question then becomes, is there enough demand to justify producing it? My inclination and assumption has always been "no" but I'd love to hear (and not derail the thread) as to why you all think this keyboard would warrant the price tag and why it would appeal to non-enthusiasts who shop on Amazon and Newegg, for example.
That's interesting that you say that, James, because Corsair mice went for close to $100 (before inevitably sales and discounts make them cheaper with time). So if you can sell a mouse for that much, can you not sell a keyboard + wrist rest for $150 nominal price (likely less on sales)? If you advertise it as being durable (mechanical + better quality keycaps), have full backlight + unusual side backlight that gamers might like + wrist rest, then it's going to appeal to people. A 3000MHz RAM is truly niche because of how little noticeable difference it makes in performance. Peripherals get a lot of use, so aesthetics as well as quality/tactile experience are more important there and people might be willing to pay more.
Just noticed this baby on a review site showing it's credentials;
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/5933/max-keyboard-blackbird-tenkeyless-mechanical-backlit-keyboard-review/index.html (http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/5933/max-keyboard-blackbird-tenkeyless-mechanical-backlit-keyboard-review/index.html)
The ONLY thing of note that has me looking, is the ALL double-shot key-caps which this keyboard uses. Forget about all that cheap-ass - sprayed on, painted rubbish, get this baby because the key-caps are definitely worth it.
You could even transfer the caps over to a future GON or TEAMREDLINE keyboard. Definitely a nice purchase just to get the double-shots which aren't readily available to buy from anywhere in the Back & White colour format, which would work with every coloured LED that was ever made.
so.... $150...
hmmm..... ah.... if led is ur flavor,, it WOULD be technically be better value than a filco/ ducky @ this price..
If we made a $150 TKL keyboard (similar to the one in this thread), the question then becomes, is there enough demand to justify producing it? My inclination and assumption has always been "no" but I'd love to hear (and not derail the thread) as to why you all think this keyboard would warrant the price tag and why it would appeal to non-enthusiasts who shop on Amazon and Newegg, for example.
been using MAXKeyboard X9 for nearly a year, coated keycaps are what I hate right now, plus the weird spacebar layout, and now they have a keyboard with full doubleshot keycaps, normal 6.25x spacebar, how good to see that happens to a "gaming" keyboard, awesome :D
and if Corsair could do that, f**k it, I'd choose Corsair...
been using MAXKeyboard X9 for nearly a year, coated keycaps are what I hate right now, plus the weird spacebar layout, and now they have a keyboard with full doubleshot keycaps, normal 6.25x spacebar, how good to see that happens to a "gaming" keyboard, awesome :D
and if Corsair could do that, f**k it, I'd choose Corsair...
So do you like their doubleshot keycaps or not?
If we made a $150 TKL keyboard (similar to the one in this thread), the question then becomes, is there enough demand to justify producing it? My inclination and assumption has always been "no" but I'd love to hear (and not derail the thread) as to why you all think this keyboard would warrant the price tag and why it would appeal to non-enthusiasts who shop on Amazon and Newegg, for example.
Interesting to hear your company's viewpoint. Whether it's coming from Management or Marketing that would be nice to know....... but if you always design to the lowest common denominator then your product will be shelved into a low standing within any community. Rather than always making products for mainstream, why not risk making a single product (like what MAX Keyboard has done) and see if it sells?
If keyboards aren't your thing then think about why did you join here on Geekhack? Also ask yourself why certain MUCH smaller companies are selling keyboards quite successfully worldwide, yet you still have that terrible inclination of listening to ONLY accountants and number crunchers. If that's the case then stick to making the same stuff always but I see you're interested in branching out. The BEST way is to start making TOP-shelf items that only a limited amount of people would like. Plus only make say for example 300 or 600 TKL's with double-shots and see how they sell.
I suspect the people in the know will swoop on them. When it finally filters out to everyone that you are making a top quality keyboard with caps then the item sells itself throughout the world.
Sometimes you need to take a risk to make something if not, stay with the accountants and be content to play with calculators and spread sheets all day long.
I wonder who they're using to manufacturer those key caps. I'd like to know more about these.
Can you do those features at a lower price point? If you can--I am certain your customer base will happily buy those keyboards. If you can't, then you'll need to start cutting corners. Skip the wrist rest--how much would that be? I don't know, maybe minus $10-15? Skip the side lights--maybe minus another $10. Skip the nicer keycaps--possibly will bring to to around $100 range. Isn't that where you are already and where most mechanicals on the market reside? Then there's not much difference between any of them save for design deviations.
That's interesting that you say that, James, because Corsair mice went for close to $100 (before inevitably sales and discounts make them cheaper with time). So if you can sell a mouse for that much, can you not sell a keyboard + wrist rest for $150 nominal price (likely less on sales)? If you advertise it as being durable (mechanical + better quality keycaps), have full backlight + unusual side backlight that gamers might like + wrist rest, then it's going to appeal to people. A 3000MHz RAM is truly niche because of how little noticeable difference it makes in performance vs 1866 9-9-9-24-1T and similar. Peripherals get a lot of use, so aesthetics as well as quality/tactile experience are more important there and people might be willing to pay more.
Also, since you brought up RAM, you have a very expensive line of RAM: Dominator Platinum, where the price points are very high just due to the flashy heatsinks. Do people buy it? I believe it's fairly popular with those who build windowed systems and can afford it. You've made something relatively unique with it, and it needs no further justification. Likewise with peripherals: if you can justify your product in terms of design and quality in a particular price bracket--people will buy it. I don't know how many will buy it--you probably know your market better. But judging by what I've seen on overclock.net, there is no shortage of people upgrading their systems all the time and buying new stuff every year or two or even more frequently. They spend far more than $150 on some things. Again, I'm not saying that $150 is cheap. But in the current scheme of things, $150 for that MAX keyboard is not out of line when comparing to the competition. It might still lose to Razer just because of advertising :(
I wonder who they're using to manufacturer those key caps. I'd like to know more about these.
wonder if they use the same company as deck is using for theirs?
I think there exists a misconception that TKL keyboards are somehow inferior to full-sized ones. If you had done a poll among your buyers, you'd probably see that many of them don't use the numpad almost ever. I'm only saying this in reference to this statement:
"why I thought a $150 TKL keyboard isn't as viable in comparison, as say for example, a full size keyboard that can have enthusiast parts like the double-shot keycaps."
To many of us, a TKL keyboard is an Advantage, because we dislike having our mouse hand too far to the right. Many of us are at our computers most of the day, so having a more ergonomic solution helps. And I'm not sure what you mean by "enthusiasts". We are enthusiasts here, and most of this site prefers TKL or smaller (or entirely different shapes like Ergo Dox). Many of us started out building computer systems. I came here from OCN.net.
Regarding higher quality features--of course they are important. You mentioned double-shot keycaps--this MAX keyboard uses double-shot backlight-friendly keycaps.
http://www.maxkeyboard.com/max-keyboard-blackbird-tenkeyless-tkl-cherry-mx-backlit-mechanical-keyboard.htmlShow Image(http://www.maxkeyboard.com/images/overview/Blackbird-TKL-KEY-CAPS-920.jpg)
So it's 1. more ergonomic than full-size, 2. has higher quality caps than most other backlit keyboards on the market (excluding maybe Deck, but Deck has pretty odd legends, and not everyone likes them), 3. full backlight and unusual side lights, 4. memory foam wrist rest included, 5. seems to have high quality of construction, including the neatly soldered PCB.
Can you do those features at a lower price point? If you can--I am certain your customer base will happily buy those keyboards. If you can't, then you'll need to start cutting corners. Skip the wrist rest--how much would that be? I don't know, maybe minus $10-15? Skip the side lights--maybe minus another $10. Skip the nicer keycaps--possibly will bring to to around $100 range. Isn't that where you are already and where most mechanicals on the market reside? Then there's not much difference between any of them save for design deviations.
Can you do those features at a lower price point? If you can--I am certain your customer base will happily buy those keyboards. If you can't, then you'll need to start cutting corners. Skip the wrist rest--how much would that be? I don't know, maybe minus $10-15? Skip the side lights--maybe minus another $10. Skip the nicer keycaps--possibly will bring to to around $100 range. Isn't that where you are already and where most mechanicals on the market reside? Then there's not much difference between any of them save for design deviations.
Don't forget the USB hub. You could knock a few dollars off there too. If you must insist on one at least make it USB3.
Also most TKLs are 14". The Blackbird is 14.75". Why?
It looks like a great keyboard, but will there be demand for a TKL that costs $150?If you guys make a TKL with cherry rgb and proper media keys I will be all over that board.
I've never used the USB-hubs on any of my keyboards, never really seen the need to be honest
I've never used the USB-hubs on any of my keyboards, never really seen the need to be honest
I've never used the USB-hubs on any of my keyboards, never really seen the need to be honest
I'd actually want one or two because i'm too lazy to go to the computer and plug it in, the board's right there
I've never used the USB-hubs on any of my keyboards, never really seen the need to be honest
I'd actually want one or two because i'm too lazy to go to the computer and plug it in, the board's right there
What could you have to plug?
I've never used the USB-hubs on any of my keyboards, never really seen the need to be honest
I'd actually want one or two because i'm too lazy to go to the computer and plug it in, the board's right there
What could you have to plug?
flash drive, extra mouse, numpad,
I've never used the USB-hubs on any of my keyboards, never really seen the need to be honest
I'd actually want one or two because i'm too lazy to go to the computer and plug it in, the board's right there
What could you have to plug?
flash drive, extra mouse, numpad,
Extra mouse?
I've never used the USB-hubs on any of my keyboards, never really seen the need to be honest
I'd actually want one or two because i'm too lazy to go to the computer and plug it in, the board's right there
What could you have to plug?
flash drive, extra mouse, numpad,
Extra mouse?
sometimes you need to plug in another mouse for various reasons and that's really handy
I've never used the USB-hubs on any of my keyboards, never really seen the need to be honest
I'd actually want one or two because i'm too lazy to go to the computer and plug it in, the board's right there
What could you have to plug?
flash drive, extra mouse, numpad,
Extra mouse?
sometimes you need to plug in another mouse for various reasons and that's really handy
Why do you need more than one mouse at a time?
It looks like a great keyboard, but will there be demand for a TKL that costs $150?If you guys make a TKL with cherry rgb and proper media keys I will be all over that board.
It looks like a great keyboard, but will there be demand for a TKL that costs $150?If you guys make a TKL with cherry rgb and proper media keys I will be all over that board.
yep, they have their strength, the exclusive RGB switch, the alu top-plate design, the scrolling volume control,... but the keycaps and layout ruined it all
It looks like a great keyboard, but will there be demand for a TKL that costs $150?If you guys make a TKL with cherry rgb and proper media keys I will be all over that board.
yep, they have their strength, the exclusive RGB switch, the alu top-plate design, the scrolling volume control,... but the keycaps and layout ruined it all
The RGB is not even released yet
MaxKeyboard has a 20% off special until Dec 26
enter the following promotional code
MKCHRISTMAS2013
http://www.maxkeyboard.com/index.php?dispatch=promotions.list
I'm not sure why geekhackers always insist on every keyboard being the same....
Cherry font
Doubleshot
No usb
No backlight (this one baffles me more than quantum physics)
Don't forget the USB hub. You could knock a few dollars off there too. If you must insist on one at least make it USB3.I read somewhere that if one device in the chain is only "full-speed", then the entire chain is restricted to being "full-speed" anyway and supporting USB 3.0 would not win you anything. I have not read up enough on the USB protocol to verify this, though...
Also most TKLs are 14". The Blackbird is 14.75". Why?The borders are thicker. That is probably for the ambient light that shines out through the transparent sides. There must be space for the light from the LEDs to disperse and diffuse.
Cherry fontIt's not the font, it's the keycaps that the legends are on. The font needs to be Cherry's only for adapter kits (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Adapter_kit) and replica kits.
DoubleshotDurability. We see this in vintage keyboards that have wear. Those that have fared best were those that had doubleshot-moulded or dye-sublimated keys.
No usbI think those who are die-hard PS/2 fans are in a very small minority.
No backlight (this one baffles me more than quantum physics)Other qualities of the keycaps are more important than backlight. If you can type without looking, then you often won't need legends at all.
wonder if they use the same company as deck is using for theirs?
I already mentioned who made this in a previous thread.wonder if they use the same company as deck is using for theirs?
The Max' design is quite different than Deck's keycaps... I think they come from different places.
To bad the Max was not available few weeks ago. I would of got the TKL from Max and the full size from Deck instead of one Hassium and one Francium.
Wow a normal layout. That is nice. What kind of stabs? Cherry I presume?yep, Cherry stab
Wow a normal layout. That is nice. What kind of stabs? Cherry I presume?
Wow a normal layout. That is nice. What kind of stabs? Cherry I presume?
Backlit = Cherry in all cases so far.
Wow a normal layout. That is nice. What kind of stabs? Cherry I presume?
Backlit = Cherry in all cases so far.
Wow a normal layout. That is nice. What kind of stabs? Cherry I presume?
Backlit = Cherry in all cases so far.
Except with WASD Code. It uses some sort of modified Costar stabilizers to work with LEDs.
those white peg things.
you have to hook the bar on one side, then hook the bar on the other side, and THEN press down onto the switch itself.
whereas on cherry stabs, you just line up the 3 stems and press down.
those white peg things.
you have to hook the bar on one side, then hook the bar on the other side, and THEN press down onto the switch itself.
whereas on cherry stabs, you just line up the 3 stems and press down.
Thank you kindly. Never knew how those things worked.
And in case you find yourself having to put the inserted into a keycap, they are not symmetrical, and the bit that stick out should point towards the top of the keyboard, where the function keys are.
And in case you find yourself having to put the inserted into a keycap, they are not symmetrical, and the bit that stick out should point towards the top of the keyboard, where the function keys are.
Ah, thanks rowdy. By the way, do you know where I might get some?
And in case you find yourself having to put the inserted into a keycap, they are not symmetrical, and the bit that stick out should point towards the top of the keyboard, where the function keys are.
Ah, thanks rowdy. By the way, do you know where I might get some?
http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/keyboard-parts/cherry-mx-keycap-stabilizer-insert-2pcs.html#ad-image-0
I've never used the USB-hubs on any of my keyboards, never really seen the need to be honest
I'd actually want one or two because i'm too lazy to go to the computer and plug it in, the board's right there
What could you have to plug?
flash drive, extra mouse, numpad,
Extra mouse?
sometimes you need to plug in another mouse for various reasons and that's really handy
Why do you need more than one mouse at a time?
I'm not sure why geekhackers always insist on every keyboard being the same....
EDIT:
But really, please switch to a normal bottom row and give us better TKLs.
I'm not sure why geekhackers always insist on every keyboard being the same....
EDIT:
But really, please switch to a normal bottom row and give us better TKLs.
This is one of the simplest requests to practically all non-standard keyboard makers. It is my great hope that they all change to just 1-3 standard bottom row layouts across the entire industry. That would make things much easier for us.
That's interesting that you say that, James, because Corsair mice went for close to $100 (before inevitably sales and discounts make them cheaper with time). So if you can sell a mouse for that much, can you not sell a keyboard + wrist rest for $150 nominal price (likely less on sales)? If you advertise it as being durable (mechanical + better quality keycaps), have full backlight + unusual side backlight that gamers might like + wrist rest, then it's going to appeal to people. A 3000MHz RAM is truly niche because of how little noticeable difference it makes in performance. Peripherals get a lot of use, so aesthetics as well as quality/tactile experience are more important there and people might be willing to pay more.
+1
iirc corsair boards cost 100+ which is outside of the range of a lot of people who don't know truely how good mechs are
Hmmm.The KC had backlight and PBT caps? :confused:
I like the caps and the backlighting customisation, but I don't think I would be able to justify that price.
Why not get a KC 87 instead? Backlights (admittedly just with brightness control), PBT caps, and a choice of five switches. Available in white or black, and under or around $100.
*shrug*