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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Cytrox on Sat, 31 January 2009, 11:41:16

Title: How can I tell the Keyboards apart?
Post by: Cytrox on Sat, 31 January 2009, 11:41:16

Hi Everyone!

Just signed up here... I didn't know there was such a big "fan-club" of "clicky"/old keyboards - In fact I learned about all this after reading about the "Das III" on techreport.com and doing some googling...

To be honest, I've only used the "standard" rubber-dome keyboards so far, and I'm still somewhat in doubt if a "clicky"/old keyboard really offers some advantage - My main concern is the missing carpal support rest thingy (http://bs.fh-coburg.de/bs~n/content/080812/cd14-Dateien/cd06.h26.jpg) (or whatever that's called) - But I'm willing to give it a try...

As far as I can see, after reading a bit here, there's much more then Das' "Cherry-blues" and IBM buckling-springs. How many different are there? How do this other mechanisms work/how can I tell them apart and how do they compare to each other? Also how do I know which keyboard has which mechanism?

For starters I though that it might not be such a bad idea to get myself a model-M, given how people "praise" this keyboard. But I need a german Layout (It's not so much about the letters on the key-caps, but about the position/shape of certain keys). Is this eBay Model M (http://cgi.ebay.at/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230322282265&_trksid=p3907.m32&_trkparms=tab%3DWatching) ok? What is the current price for these Things? (30 USD as techreport.com says?)

Also I remembered that I had an old "clicky" keyboard somewhere in a closet. It's not an IBM one, so I took a few pictures of it, and hope you can help me Identifying it (I also tried to remove one of the keycaps but was unable to do so with "moderate" force):

(http://s2.largeimagehost.com/TN/ecXeeet/tn_cut-DSCN0302.png) (http://s2.largeimagehost.com/img/untilted/ecXeees/cut-DSCN0302.png.html) (http://s2.largeimagehost.com/TN/ecXeeXQ/tn_lbl-DSCN0315.png) (http://s2.largeimagehost.com/img/untilted/ecXeeXU/lbl-DSCN0315.png.html)

Title: How can I tell the Keyboards apart?
Post by: zwmalone on Sat, 31 January 2009, 11:59:31

Welcome to GeekHack Cytrox!
I think those Nan Tan keyboards have white ALPS if I remember correctly.

Title: How can I tell the Keyboards apart?
Post by: lal on Sat, 31 January 2009, 12:00:55

Hi Cytrox, and welcome!

I can't see why the Model M you linked shouldn't be fine. The 1391403 is probably the most common German model, if not the only one(?). Price ranges anywhere from 10 to 50 Euro, depending on condition I guess.

You can use any wrist rest you like, they are available separately.

Your keyboard looks indeed interesting. Googling for the model number KB-6153EA sadly doesn't yield anything useful but searching for "nan tan keyboard" I found this ebay link (http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Nan-Tan-Metal-Back-Keyboard-Clicky-Alps-Sliders_W0QQitemZ300290277609QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090130?IMSfp=TL090130155002r17241) which looks very similar to yours and has white Alps switches (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=1299) and should therefore be a nice keyboard.

Title: How can I tell the Keyboards apart?
Post by: lowpoly on Sat, 31 January 2009, 12:41:12

Are you in Austria? Buy from an Austrian seller and save on shipping. If you give yourself some time you shouldn't pay more than Euro 15,- to 20,-.

The wrist rest shouldn't be used while typing, just during breaks. Otherwise it can increase pressure in the wrist and make the carpal tunnel situation worse.

Title: How can I tell the Keyboards apart?
Post by: bhtooefr on Sat, 31 January 2009, 12:45:40

You know, we really need a keyboard primer that gets updated every now and then as the knowledge of various keyswitches is expanded.

Title: How can I tell the Keyboards apart?
Post by: wellington1869 on Sat, 31 January 2009, 14:03:23

Quote from: bhtooefr;20411

You know, we really need a keyboard primer that gets updated every now and then as the knowledge of various keyswitches is expanded.

seconding...

cytrox, for  now you should search the forum for specific boards or switches you're interested in. There are lots of reviews and details that have accumulated in the forum threads over time.

Title: How can I tell the Keyboards apart?
Post by: Cytrox on Sat, 31 January 2009, 14:04:36

Thanks for the warm welcome!

White ALPS... is that a good thing? To bad I can't seem to find the PS/2 adapter for it :\

Are the keycaps on this keyboard removable?

Quote from: lal

I can't see why the Model M you linked shouldn't be fine. The 1391403 is probably the most common German model, if not the only one(?)

So there are no pre-1992 IBM heyboards with a german layout?

Quote from: lowpoly

Are you in Austria?

Yes I live in Austria, but it's a small country - I doubt I'll find such specific things on eBay.

Quote from: lowpoly

The wrist rest shouldn't be used while typing, just during breaks. Otherwise it can increase pressure in the wrist and make the carpal tunnel situation worse.

Hm.. I always have my wrists on the wrist rest while typing... that's a bad thing?

Title: How can I tell the Keyboards apart?
Post by: bhtooefr on Sat, 31 January 2009, 14:07:23

The keys are removable on an Alps-switch board, but they do tend to be very hard to remove.

Title: How can I tell the Keyboards apart?
Post by: Cytrox on Sat, 31 January 2009, 14:49:44

Yes, indeed, I was able to remove it with this here (http://s2.largeimagehost.com/img/untilted/ecXecsQ/tool-DSCN0378.png.html), after having read the "paperclip-tool" tutorial (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?p=8812)...

(http://s2.largeimagehost.com/TN/ecXecsU/tn_keycap-DSCN0377.png) (http://s2.largeimagehost.com/img/untilted/ecXecsF/keycap-DSCN0377.png.html)

So... is it a white ALPS? Is it a fake one? (because there's no logo)


Ohh, and one more question... How well do these "mechanical" keyboards do for gaming? Are they better than the rubber-dome ones? Or are they worse, as fingers have to travel a longer way?


Thanks for all the replies! I hope I'm not annoying you with all my questions :)

Title: How can I tell the Keyboards apart?
Post by: wellington1869 on Sat, 31 January 2009, 14:55:20

to tell if its real or fake you'll need to remove the upper housing (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=1122) and post macro pics of the switch inside...

Title: How can I tell the Keyboards apart?
Post by: zwmalone on Sat, 31 January 2009, 15:08:57

Quote from: Cytrox;20434

Yes, indeed, I was able to remove it with this here (http://s2.largeimagehost.com/img/untilted/ecXecsQ/tool-DSCN0378.png.html), after having read the "paperclip-tool" tutorial (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?p=8812)...

Show Image

(http://s2.largeimagehost.com/TN/ecXecsU/tn_keycap-DSCN0377.png) (http://s2.largeimagehost.com/img/untilted/ecXecsF/keycap-DSCN0377.png.html)

So... is it a white ALPS? Is it a fake one? (because there's no logo)


Ohh, and one more question... How well do these "mechanical" keyboards do for gaming? Are they better than the rubber-dome ones? Or are they worse, as fingers have to travel a longer way?


Thanks for all the replies! I hope I'm not annoying you with all my questions :)

No logo? :confused:  It says ALPS right at the bottom:
(http://s2.largeimagehost.com/displayimage.php?img=keycap-DSCN0377.png&loc=ecXecsF&skey=june31)

It doesn't look white (My avatar is a genuine *bigfoot* white ALPS switch), it looks more like a gray strongman style switch as in Wellington's SMK85.

Title: How can I tell the Keyboards apart?
Post by: pex on Sat, 31 January 2009, 15:41:19

Quote

How many different are there? How do this other mechanisms work/how can I tell them apart and how do they compare to each other? Also how do I know which keyboard has which mechanism?

All I can tell you is...

"Once you know, you NewEgg."

Title: How can I tell the Keyboards apart?
Post by: lowpoly on Sat, 31 January 2009, 16:12:34

Quote from: Cytrox;20425

So there are no pre-1992 IBM heyboards with a german layout?

I have one from 1986, looks like a 1390131 but has a different number inside.

Quote from: Cytrox;20425

Yes I live in Austria, but it's a small country - I doubt I'll find such specific things on eBay.

I've seen several Model Ms from Austrian sellers on ebay.de.

As for the wrist rest, here  (http://www.onsightergo.com/articles/wristrest.html)is an article that explains how I understood it so far. The author seems to sell wrist rests so he may be qualified or not.

Title: How can I tell the Keyboards apart?
Post by: lal on Sat, 31 January 2009, 16:19:11

Quote from: Cytrox;20434

Yes, indeed, I was able to remove it with this here (http://s2.largeimagehost.com/img/untilted/ecXecsQ/tool-DSCN0378.png.html)

Mmmh, cool idea. I'm going to try this, too. I'm not being very optimistic that this will survive more than removing a few keycaps though. We'll see.

Quote

So... is it a white ALPS? Is it a fake one? (because there's no logo)

If it's real or fake is a question that requires extensive knowledge of the delicate different nuances of the various Alps flavors, which I don't posses. And I personally don't care that much. The keyboards case construction and the keycaps have a great impact on the overall feel, so that a specific Alps switch might be great in one board and not so great in another. But this is something for the Alps gourmets. A board with any kind of Alps switch is preferable to a rubber dome in any case, I think.

Title: How can I tell the Keyboards apart?
Post by: Cytrox on Sat, 31 January 2009, 17:02:02

Quote from: zwmalone

No logo?  It says ALPS right at the bottom

Hm... yes, now that you mention it, I see it too xD

It's not gray however, it's white - I don't know why it's grey in the picture :\

After spending some time with my camera and it's manual, I managed to take this very-close-up picture, but it still looks a bit grey-ish:

(http://s2.largeimagehost.com/TN/ecXessU/tn_closeup-DSCN0401.png) (http://s2.largeimagehost.com/img/untilted/ecXessF/closeup-DSCN0401.png.html)

Quote from: lal;20441

Mmmh, cool idea. I'm going to try this, too. I'm not being very optimistic that this will survive more than removing a few keycaps though. We'll see.

an other big downside is that it's metal and you have to be careful not to scratch the caps next to the one you are removing :>

Title: How can I tell the Keyboards apart?
Post by: skriefal on Sat, 31 January 2009, 18:23:13

It looks gray because your camera overexposed the image.  This is very common with point-and-shoot cameras.

Title: How can I tell the Keyboards apart?
Post by: sandy55 on Sat, 31 January 2009, 19:05:11

http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/ntc_kb-6151.html

Mine is Unikey version though.

Title: How can I tell the Keyboards apart?
Post by: lowpoly on Sun, 01 February 2009, 16:32:39

Here is one in Austria:

(removed)

Spacebar looks yellowed. Maybe you can get one in the marketplace.

Title: How can I tell the Keyboards apart?
Post by: Cytrox on Sun, 01 February 2009, 16:40:16

Quote from: lowpoly;20507

Here is one in Austria:

(removed)

Oh, ok, so I should leave "Model M" out when doing a search on ebay...

Thanks!

Title: How can I tell the Keyboards apart?
Post by: bhtooefr on Sun, 01 February 2009, 16:44:30

That spacebar looks odd, all yellowed like that...

Title: How can I tell the Keyboards apart?
Post by: lowpoly on Sun, 01 February 2009, 16:47:59

Quote

Oh, ok, so I should leave "Model M" out when doing a search on ebay...

No, the seller doesn't know what he has.

You might get it for cheap. I removed the link from my previous post. You might want to do the same. Should have pm'd you in the first place.