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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: joel96 on Sun, 22 December 2013, 02:26:04

Title: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: joel96 on Sun, 22 December 2013, 02:26:04
Whipped this bad boy together in a couple of hours:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApzIz1YSh_e7dFRnb2ZTWl9LbkNtTDd0UmxzUVlGenc&usp=sharing
This is a list of two main things: the keyboards to which I've seen (based on my three whole hours of browsing the forums) users recommended as the best keyboard with the best switches; and the keyboards recommended by users as the quietest. Ergonomics is mentioned in passing. The general mood seems to be that capacitive electrostatics are superior to any and all MX Cherry switches in every way that can be measured: capacitive electrostatic switches are quieter than anything but the Matias Quiet Pro and modded MX cherry boards, they are more responsive, and give better tactile feedback.

My goal (at least I think it is, in my unenlightened state) is to get the fastest response from the keyboard with the least amount of key exertion to a point where I can breathe on the keys and they depress, as cheaply as possible, and with USB 3.0 support so I can roll my face over all the keys and see out of the corner of my eye that more than six key presses are registering. I'm really not interested in boards with 66 keys or less--I can think of too many apps and games that require more keys than a 104-key unit has, let alone doing without the clusters I'm used to (ideally, I'd have a room like they do in Matrix Revolutions where they've got a wall of keyboards and I can assign an action to a key without using combinations or macro keys). The application I'll be using it for is streaming games; this means I need the response and speed of MX Red and Topre switch boards, but I need it to be quiet so they clicks aren't driving viewers crazy. Also, I don't really like the idea of having to listen to the same clicks several hundred thousand times over the course of my life--I like all sorts of music, but industrial ambient isn't one of those genres that deserves appreciation. I guess I"m leaning towards the $150 104-key Type Heaven--seems like users say it's the best one for gaming.

I have a Saitek Eclipse, and a Blackwidow (I think Ultimate, and red switches). I don't like either of them that much.
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: PointyFox on Sun, 22 December 2013, 02:59:55
uhh....  :confused:

No keyboard is best for gaming.  If you want to minimize key travel, you should look into low profile scissor switches.  They're quiet, cheap, fast, and you can probably find some boards with them and USB 3.0 ports.
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: terran5992 on Sun, 22 December 2013, 03:21:46
I would say topre.

But if you feel another switch works for you, go for it
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: 1pq on Sun, 22 December 2013, 09:52:59
I would say topre.

But if you feel another switch works for you, go for it

Personally, I hate gaming on topre switches. For your situation, I'd go with Reds or Browns, and if you want them to be quiet just use o-rings (although that ruins the feel IMO)
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 22 December 2013, 10:04:29
my god :blank:

Alright. Let me set one thing straight.

There is no "best" keyboard for anything. People will say that there is, but trust me, there isn't. No best switch, no best keyboard, no best anything. If there was, everyone would be using it, right?

Topre is a less desirable switch for gaming. "But tacticalstache," you may be saying, "everyone says the type heaven is the best, why are you saying it sucks?" I say that because topre switches miss out on a few important keyboard tricks that MX switches have. Namely a static actuation point, "allowing for floating".

ALPS and MX have proved good to me in the past. No specific switch is any better than another, though.

And another thing, I have yet to see a pro use a topre or ALPS switch keyboard for any reason other than sponsorship. Let that sink in.
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: PointyFox on Sun, 22 December 2013, 12:22:37
my god :blank:

Alright. Let me set one thing straight.

There is no "best" keyboard for anything. People will say that there is, but trust me, there isn't. No best switch, no best keyboard, no best anything. If there was, everyone would be using it, right?

Topre is a less desirable switch for gaming. "But tacticalstache," you may be saying, "everyone says the type heaven is the best, why are you saying it sucks?" I say that because topre switches miss out on a few important keyboard tricks that MX switches have. Namely a static actuation point, "allowing for floating".

ALPS and MX have proved good to me in the past. No specific switch is any better than another, though.

And another thing, I have yet to see a pro use a topre or ALPS switch keyboard for any reason other than sponsorship. Let that sink in.

Very few people "float" on the actuation point and that's just the typists.  I'd imagine the amount of gamers that do would be even less due to many games requiring certain buttons to be held down.  "Pros" don't use Topre or ALPS because they are uncommon and I don't think any companies are using them in products targeted to gamers.

Again, no keyboard excels at gaming.  I've gone 49-3 on an FPS game using a 2KRO buckling spring keyboard.  But for your purpose you need a quiet one, and most mechanical keyboards make more noise than rubber dome based switches.
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sun, 22 December 2013, 12:33:29
USB 3 whut?
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: Linkbane on Sun, 22 December 2013, 15:29:55
The presumption in this one, first post and already going on about what keyboard is better than another.
The lightest possible switch you could have which will actuate easily is a linear MX with the lightest spring from Originative.

Very few people "float" on the actuation point and that's just the typists.  I'd imagine the amount of gamers that do would be even less due to many games requiring certain buttons to be held down.  "Pros" don't use Topre or ALPS because they are uncommon and I don't think any companies are using them in products targeted to gamers.

Again, no keyboard excels at gaming.  I've gone 49-3 on an FPS game using a 2KRO buckling spring keyboard.  But for your purpose you need a quiet one, and most mechanical keyboards make more noise than rubber dome based switches.

Pointy, you don't have any evidence for what you're talking about. Typists certainly do NOT float on the actuation point, that's a very stupid idea and would destroy accuracy and speed. Pros don't use Topre because they're not good boards for gaming. They're tactile and have a very bad force curve for gaming, because it drops down all the way. Something so inconsistent and dropping would not be good for a gamer, adding onto the fact that it has unnecessary tactility.

Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: joel96 on Sun, 22 December 2013, 17:29:54

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApzIz1YSh_e7dFRnb2ZTWl9LbkNtTDd0UmxzUVlGenc&usp=sharing
@PointyFox: Added an entry for a gloss white (bleh) low-profile scissor switch keyboard by Macally.
EDIT: I looked at my laptop's keyboard, and discovered it uses scissor switches. I haven't had a good experience with it--trying to think up reasons why (might be because it gets hot, but then again, that's the laptop; or uncomfortable, but that's because I don't use it at a desk; maybe it's because the keys are equally flat; or maybe it's because I haven't had a chance to use it in a gaming context). It is definitely the quietest of the keyboards I own (Asus K60iJ keyboard > Eclipse > Blackwidow). All I know is that it's fatiguing to use, the Eclipse less so, and the linear red-switched Blackwidow the least.
@terran5992: That narrows it down to the Topre Type Heaven 104-key Keyboard, and the Realforce104UB for me anyway. The HHKB's might be superior in their mechanisms, but I really don't want to get a separate keypad.
@1pq: If the o-rings ruin the feel, I probably ought to go with Brown, since they are marginally quieter.
@TacticalStache: which ALPS or MX keyboards do you recommend (I don't think I have any ALPS keyboards on the list), and which MX switch do you recommend for the gaming and streaming application?
@SpAmRaY: 105KRO without having to go with the PS2 interface. There's other keyboards from Cooler Master other than the Osmium I put on the list, but they're more expensive.
@Linkbane: That would be the MX Red or Black for switch design, since they're functionally identical aside from the spring. http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46449.0
The lightest MX spring has a maximum average down actuation of 63.4, a whole 7.1g higher than Originative 45g springs. I have a rough idea of how heavy 7.1g is, it is like several vitamin pills. I can see how that would make a difference over the life of the keyboard. This also isn't counting lubrication of the keys to reduce the actuation force. The CM Storm QuickFire XT is the cheapest Cherry MX Red keyboard. I'm leaning from the others in the list and more towards that one--seems like MX keyboards have a mainstream appeal anyway.
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 22 December 2013, 17:32:53
For gaming/streaming, any full size should work.

I say full size because the numpad is useful for streaming hotkeys.

Quickfire ultimate is my choice.
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: Linkbane on Sun, 22 December 2013, 17:50:34
@Linkbane: That would be the MX Red or Black for switch design, since they're functionally identical aside from the spring. http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46449.0
The lightest MX spring has a maximum average down actuation of 63.4, a whole 7.1g higher than Originative 45g springs. I have a rough idea of how heavy 7.1g is, it is like several vitamin pills. I can see how that would make a difference over the life of the keyboard. This also isn't counting lubrication of the keys to reduce the actuation force. The CM Storm QuickFire XT is the cheapest Cherry MX Red keyboard. I'm leaning from the others in the list and more towards that one--seems like MX keyboards have a mainstream appeal anyway.

Wow, having nearly a thousand posts, I certainly wouldn't know that Reds and Blacks are linear or anything.
Thanks for telling me all this new information!
/sarcasm

All of us know this, and it's really irritating for you to insinuate that you know anything. If you want advice, get advice, stop regurgitating back information.
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: tjcaustin on Sun, 22 December 2013, 17:58:13
The presumption in this one, first post and already going on about what keyboard is better than another.
The lightest possible switch you could have which will actuate easily is a linear MX with the lightest spring from Originative.

Very few people "float" on the actuation point and that's just the typists.  I'd imagine the amount of gamers that do would be even less due to many games requiring certain buttons to be held down.  "Pros" don't use Topre or ALPS because they are uncommon and I don't think any companies are using them in products targeted to gamers.

Again, no keyboard excels at gaming.  I've gone 49-3 on an FPS game using a 2KRO buckling spring keyboard.  But for your purpose you need a quiet one, and most mechanical keyboards make more noise than rubber dome based switches.

Pointy, you don't have any evidence for what you're talking about. Typists certainly do NOT float on the actuation point, that's a very stupid idea and would destroy accuracy and speed. Pros don't use Topre because they're not good boards for gaming. They're tactile and have a very bad force curve for gaming, because it drops down all the way. Something so inconsistent and dropping would not be good for a gamer, adding onto the fact that it has unnecessary tactility.

Why are you repeating what he said, but in an aggressive tone with the implication that he's wrong?
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: whiteduck on Sun, 22 December 2013, 18:00:19
my god :blank:

Alright. Let me set one thing straight.

There is no "best" keyboard for anything. People will say that there is, but trust me, there isn't. No best switch, no best keyboard, no best anything. If there was, everyone would be using it, right?

Topre is a less desirable switch for gaming. "But tacticalstache," you may be saying, "everyone says the type heaven is the best, why are you saying it sucks?" I say that because topre switches miss out on a few important keyboard tricks that MX switches have. Namely a static actuation point, "allowing for floating".

ALPS and MX have proved good to me in the past. No specific switch is any better than another, though.

And another thing, I have yet to see a pro use a topre or ALPS switch keyboard for any reason other than sponsorship. Let that sink in.

Very few people "float" on the actuation point and that's just the typists.  I'd imagine the amount of gamers that do would be even less due to many games requiring certain buttons to be held down.  "Pros" don't use Topre or ALPS because they are uncommon and I don't think any companies are using them in products targeted to gamers.

Again, no keyboard excels at gaming.  I've gone 49-3 on an FPS game using a 2KRO buckling spring keyboard.  But for your purpose you need a quiet one, and most mechanical keyboards make more noise than rubber dome based switches.

anyone who play sc2 "floats" kthx
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: Linkbane on Sun, 22 December 2013, 18:01:16
The presumption in this one, first post and already going on about what keyboard is better than another.
The lightest possible switch you could have which will actuate easily is a linear MX with the lightest spring from Originative.

Very few people "float" on the actuation point and that's just the typists.  I'd imagine the amount of gamers that do would be even less due to many games requiring certain buttons to be held down.  "Pros" don't use Topre or ALPS because they are uncommon and I don't think any companies are using them in products targeted to gamers.

Again, no keyboard excels at gaming.  I've gone 49-3 on an FPS game using a 2KRO buckling spring keyboard.  But for your purpose you need a quiet one, and most mechanical keyboards make more noise than rubber dome based switches.

Pointy, you don't have any evidence for what you're talking about. Typists certainly do NOT float on the actuation point, that's a very stupid idea and would destroy accuracy and speed. Pros don't use Topre because they're not good boards for gaming. They're tactile and have a very bad force curve for gaming, because it drops down all the way. Something so inconsistent and dropping would not be good for a gamer, adding onto the fact that it has unnecessary tactility.

Why are you repeating what he said, but in an aggressive tone with the implication that he's wrong?

It was a direct refutation, which you would probably be able to see if you read it instead of being passive aggressive.
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: tjcaustin on Sun, 22 December 2013, 18:07:16
Ok, cool, you're just ****ing stupid.

Very few people "float" on the actuation point and that's just the typists.

Typists certainly do NOT float on the actuation point,



In what world is that refuting the other thing?  You said the same damn thing with different words.

Also, since you're clearly a moron, I brought you the definition of passive-aggressive (clearly you don't know it or you wouldn't have said I was being it) - A defense mechanism that allows people who aren't comfortable being openly aggressive get what they want under the guise of still trying to please others. They want their way, but they also want everyone to still like them.

And since I'm defining words you don't know, here's refutation, too:
ref·u·ta·tion
n.
1. The act of refuting.
2. Something, such as an argument, that refutes someone or something.

I don't know why I even bother to help fools like you.
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: 1pq on Sun, 22 December 2013, 18:13:04
Ok, cool, you're just ****ing stupid.

Very few people "float" on the actuation point and that's just the typists.

Typists certainly do NOT float on the actuation point,



In what world is that refuting the other thing?  You said the same damn thing with different words.

Also, since you're clearly a moron, I brought you the definition of passive-aggressive (clearly you don't know it or you wouldn't have said I was being it) - A defense mechanism that allows people who aren't comfortable being openly aggressive get what they want under the guise of still trying to please others. They want their way, but they also want everyone to still like them.

And since I'm defining words you don't know, here's refutation, too:
ref·u·ta·tion
n.
1. The act of refuting.
2. Something, such as an argument, that refutes someone or something.

I don't know why I even bother to help fools like you.

Oh damn. Let the flame-war commence...
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sun, 22 December 2013, 18:16:42
: popcorn:
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: demik on Sun, 22 December 2013, 19:08:07
best keyboard is a keyboard with topre switches.


all hail the topre gods

LOL @ tj being passive aggressive.

but on the bright side, at least this 16 year old spelled it correctly.
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: 1pq on Sun, 22 December 2013, 19:59:57
best keyboard is a keyboard with topre switches.


all hail the topre gods

LOL @ tj being passive aggressive.

but on the bright side, at least this 16 year old spelled it correctly.

I agree with your criticisms, but seriously dude, pulling out the age argument?
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: demik on Sun, 22 December 2013, 20:00:58
best keyboard is a keyboard with topre switches.


all hail the topre gods

LOL @ tj being passive aggressive.

but on the bright side, at least this 16 year old spelled it correctly.

I agree with your criticisms, but seriously dude, pulling out the age argument?

oh i was joking >.<
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sun, 22 December 2013, 20:03:14
best keyboard is a keyboard with topre switches.


all hail the topre gods

LOL @ tj being passive aggressive.

but on the bright side, at least this 16 year old spelled it correctly.

I agree with your criticisms, but seriously dude, pulling out the age argument?

So age is irrelevant?
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: rowdy on Sun, 22 December 2013, 20:32:18
best keyboard is a keyboard with topre switches.


all hail the topre gods

LOL @ tj being passive aggressive.

but on the bright side, at least this 16 year old spelled it correctly.

I agree with your criticisms, but seriously dude, pulling out the age argument?

So age is irrelevant?

We have a thread about that: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44177.0
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sun, 22 December 2013, 20:39:36
best keyboard is a keyboard with topre switches.


all hail the topre gods

LOL @ tj being passive aggressive.

but on the bright side, at least this 16 year old spelled it correctly.

I agree with your criticisms, but seriously dude, pulling out the age argument?

So age is irrelevant?

We have a thread about that: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44177.0

Yes..... I am aware :P
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: Emospence on Sun, 22 December 2013, 23:50:25
Topre vs Realforce... Huh.
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: Linkbane on Sun, 22 December 2013, 23:58:29
Ok, cool, you're just ****ing stupid.

Very few people "float" on the actuation point and that's just the typists.

Typists certainly do NOT float on the actuation point,



In what world is that refuting the other thing?  You said the same damn thing with different words.

Also, since you're clearly a moron, I brought you the definition of passive-aggressive (clearly you don't know it or you wouldn't have said I was being it) - A defense mechanism that allows people who aren't comfortable being openly aggressive get what they want under the guise of still trying to please others. They want their way, but they also want everyone to still like them.

And since I'm defining words you don't know, here's refutation, too:
ref·u·ta·tion
n.
1. The act of refuting.
2. Something, such as an argument, that refutes someone or something.

I don't know why I even bother to help fools like you.

TJ, I'm not wasting time to argue with you. Your arrogance is absolutely out of this world.
Just keep on derailing, thanks.
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 23 December 2013, 00:41:42
best keyboard is a keyboard with topre switches.


all hail the topre gods

LOL @ tj being passive aggressive.

but on the bright side, at least this 16 year old spelled it correctly.

I agree with your criticisms, but seriously dude, pulling out the age argument?

So age is irrelevant?

We have a thread about that: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44177.0

Yes..... I am aware :P

Some of the newer members might not be :p
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: joel96 on Mon, 23 December 2013, 23:28:10
Aside from adding demik's recommendation to the Topre entries, the only new edit to the list I have is the QuickFire Ultimate entry. It's a Brown switch board and has NKRO as opposed to the Red XT without NKRO; about a $30 difference (not counting cosmetics). An unmodded Brown switch would be quieter than an unmodded red switch, but a Red switch with modding would be quieter than an unmodded Brown switch; a Brown switch with modding would not be as quiet as a Red switch with modding. By modding I mean O-rings and lubricant. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: fourzeropooh on Mon, 23 December 2013, 23:29:57
Aside from adding demik's recommendation to the Topre entries, the only new edit to the list I have is the QuickFire Ultimate entry. It's a Brown switch board and has NKRO as opposed to the Red XT without NKRO; about a $30 difference (not counting cosmetics). An unmodded Brown switch would be quieter than an unmodded red switch, but a Red switch with modding would be quieter; a Brown switch with modding would not be as quiet as a Red switch with modding. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Doesn't the QFR come in reds, browns, blues, and blacks?
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 24 December 2013, 00:09:42
Aside from adding demik's recommendation to the Topre entries, the only new edit to the list I have is the QuickFire Ultimate entry. It's a Brown switch board and has NKRO as opposed to the Red XT without NKRO; about a $30 difference (not counting cosmetics). An unmodded Brown switch would be quieter than an unmodded red switch, but a Red switch with modding would be quieter; a Brown switch with modding would not be as quiet as a Red switch with modding. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Doesn't the QFR come in reds, browns, blues, and blacks?

And greens!
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: joel96 on Tue, 24 December 2013, 01:54:32
Yeah, well, from earlier in the thread, the conclusion I drew was that if I were going the MX route, I should go with Brown for quietness or Red for lower actuation, which is why I mention those exclusively. Really don't know which one is better for the gaming/streaming task.
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: domoaligato on Tue, 24 December 2013, 02:44:02
Cherry MX Super Black
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: joel96 on Tue, 24 December 2013, 13:10:33
Aren't those the opposite of what I'm looking for? High actuation and high noise?
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: PointyFox on Tue, 24 December 2013, 13:21:10
Yeah, well, from earlier in the thread, the conclusion I drew was that if I were going the MX route, I should go with Brown for quietness or Red for lower actuation, which is why I mention those exclusively. Really don't know which one is better for the gaming/streaming task.

The actuation point is 2mm for all the MX switches.  MX Brown should be quieter than MX Red since it has the tactile bump that reduces bottoming out/bottoming out force.  The noise produced by the MX linear switches is mostly from bottoming out.

Cherry MX Super Black

Higher force linear switches tend to make less noise because you're not bottoming out, or bottoming out as hard; so MX Dark Grey should be quieter than MX Black, which should be quieter than MX Red.
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: domoaligato on Tue, 24 December 2013, 14:52:49
I was actually joking about suggesting mx super blacks.
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: joel96 on Tue, 24 December 2013, 19:52:45

Another thing that came up is the size of the keyboard. I prefer non-compact boards. Maybe it's because it's more ergonomically correct. To give an idea of how big I'm looking for, I wouldn't want to go much smaller than my current keyboard's length of 50cm (and that's because there's these corner thingies that extend out beyond the profile of the Eclipse). Maybe 45cm.
Added a different Brown keyboard to the list that has NKRO: The CM QuickFire Pro. It's 46cm.
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: domoaligato on Tue, 24 December 2013, 20:30:32
fyi the CM Storm QuickFire XT is considered a upgrade from the CM Storm QuickFire Pro. But if your going to go full size the filco fullsize are the way to go in MX
otherwise.... a good old IBM Model M might suit you.
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: terran5992 on Tue, 24 December 2013, 21:27:13
fyi the CM Storm QuickFire XT is considered a upgrade from the CM Storm QuickFire Pro. But if your going to go full size the filco fullsize are the way to go in MX
otherwise.... a good old IBM Model M might suit you.

Isnt going to fullsize a downgrade?
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: 1pq on Tue, 24 December 2013, 23:34:10
fyi the CM Storm QuickFire XT is considered a upgrade from the CM Storm QuickFire Pro. But if your going to go full size the filco fullsize are the way to go in MX
otherwise.... a good old IBM Model M might suit you.

Isnt going to fullsize a downgrade?

The quickfire pro is fullsize. I think he was talking specifically about the QF XT vs the QF Pro
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: Awful on Tue, 24 December 2013, 23:59:48
I would say topre.

But if you feel another switch works for you, go for it

Personally, I hate gaming on topre switches. For your situation, I'd go with Reds or Browns, and if you want them to be quiet just use o-rings (although that ruins the feel IMO)

This is proof no switch is best, I own a mx red board and an mx brown and I prefer my hhkb over both.

Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: 1pq on Wed, 25 December 2013, 00:14:59
I would say topre.

But if you feel another switch works for you, go for it

Personally, I hate gaming on topre switches. For your situation, I'd go with Reds or Browns, and if you want them to be quiet just use o-rings (although that ruins the feel IMO)

^^ true, it all comes down to personal preference.

This is proof no switch is best, I own a mx red board and an mx brown and I prefer my hhkb over both.
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: joel96 on Wed, 25 December 2013, 03:27:49
The Ninja Majestouch-2 is the only filco board on the list. I added your name as a recommendation to it. Why is the XT and going compact considered the upgrade? Is it like phone texting and court stenographers with their teeny tiny typewriters able to write down what two people are saying at once?
What is is about the filco full-size boards people like?
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: domoaligato on Wed, 25 December 2013, 03:32:31
Filco build quality is excellent and you can get a programable replacent controller.
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: joel96 on Wed, 25 December 2013, 15:45:31
What do programable replacent controllers do? The description of the Majestouch-2 doesn't say anything about it. The entry I added for the Majestouch-2 was the FKBN104M/EB2; that's the brown 104-key version with the lettering on the top of the keys. I'd prefer the FKBN104M/EFB2 Ninja without the lettering on the top of the keys, but I don't think I can justify the $26.18 additional cost when I could get a set of black key caps.
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: domoaligato on Wed, 25 December 2013, 18:21:16
bpiphany makes and sells them as kits for qfr and filco tkl and full sizes
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: Emospence on Thu, 26 December 2013, 00:29:46
Isnt going to fullsize a downgrade?

Huh?
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: Emospence on Thu, 26 December 2013, 00:30:34
Double post.
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: domoaligato on Thu, 26 December 2013, 00:46:58
What do programable replacent controllers do? The description of the Majestouch-2 doesn't say anything about it. The entry I added for the Majestouch-2 was the FKBN104M/EB2; that's the brown 104-key version with the lettering on the top of the keys. I'd prefer the FKBN104M/EFB2 Ninja without the lettering on the top of the keys, but I don't think I can justify the $26.18 additional cost when I could get a set of black key caps.

I am sorry when I posted earlier I was on tapatalk on my phone.

the model of filco tkl doesn't matter. I am talking about options to modify/customize the keyboard later if you wish to do so.

the cm qfr, filco tkl, filco fullsize are all supported by the programmable controllers in this thread http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46700.0
you can remap any key to any thing you want. you can add custom function layers and macros...
here is a link to the wiki page for the firmware...
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Costar_replacement_controllers

and here is someone else's codebase

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=51252.0

and the HID Liberation Device for filco tkl is here
http://deskthority.net/wiki/HID_Liberation_Device_-_Instructions

and the very popular hasu tmk firmware supports this as well...
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41989.0

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46700.0
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: terran5992 on Thu, 26 December 2013, 02:09:25
Double post.

TKL is more ergonomic
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: domoaligato on Thu, 26 December 2013, 12:27:08
Double post.

TKL is more ergonomic

"ergonomic" is a very personalized thing. everyone is different.
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: Linkbane on Thu, 26 December 2013, 17:39:52
Double post.

TKL is more ergonomic

"ergonomic" is a very personalized thing. everyone is different.

Not having to reach as far for your mouse is ergonomic unless you have tentacles instead of hands (in which case you probably wouldn't be using a computer).
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: Emospence on Thu, 26 December 2013, 20:21:08
"ergonomic" is a very personalized thing. everyone is different.

I agree with this.
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: joel96 on Fri, 27 December 2013, 00:48:59
I added five more to the list because I went to deskthority and they gave recommendations. I like the idea of having shorter travel time to my mouse. I also like the idea of macro keys, which I don't have on my Eclipse. I figure scripts activated by key combinations can handle anything macro keys would be able to handle. The cheapest MX Brown board with macro keys is the G710+, and the cheapest brown TKL is the qfr (), which domoaligato said would enable remapping keys. I don't see why I couldn't remap on a software level with JoyToKey or GlovePIE, though; maybe introduction of lag.
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: Pacifist on Fri, 27 December 2013, 01:06:26
just make your own custom board instead of trying to find a pre manufactuered one yourself. it will fit your personal needs better than that of a mass market

and it looks like you have enough cash to have that done if you are willing to consider the overpriced g710+
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: joel96 on Fri, 27 December 2013, 13:52:00
You're saying I can have a custom board made for $89. Well, okay, link me to the person who will make a brown switch TKL with macro keys and NKRO for $89.
Here's the spreadsheet in case anyone missed it. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApzIz1YSh_e7dFRnb2ZTWl9LbkNtTDd0UmxzUVlGenc&usp=sharing
I'm leaning towards the qfr brown because it's supported by modders and several users in the thread; the majestouch 2 tkl brown is $90 more than the qfr--don't know enough about the features and build quality to determine what drives that price.
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: joel96 on Sat, 28 December 2013, 20:11:06
I've narrowed it down to the qfr (
$84.29)
, the qf stealth (
$94.99)
, and the qf tk (
$91.98 on newegg)
. Seems like the TK would be a bit better because I'd get a full number pad cluster and NKRO over USB 2.0, at the cost of one key of increased wideness. I doubt that the mods meant for the qfr will work with the TK, which maybe means less recommendation from the forums. They're close enough that the price really isn't that big of a deciding factor.
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: Pacifist on Sat, 28 December 2013, 20:19:46
You're saying I can have a custom board made for $89. Well, okay, link me to the person who will make a brown switch TKL with macro keys and NKRO for $89.
Here's the spreadsheet in case anyone missed it. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApzIz1YSh_e7dFRnb2ZTWl9LbkNtTDd0UmxzUVlGenc&usp=sharing
I'm leaning towards the qfr brown because it's supported by modders and several users in the thread; the majestouch 2 tkl brown is $90 more than the qfr--don't know enough about the features and build quality to determine what drives that price.

Don't know any of those PCBs off the top of my head, but designing one doesn't seem out of your bounds due to how much effort you've put into picking a board.

But if you get a bunch of people to help you and get the price down when buying PCBs, you can prob spend ~15 on PCB, ~30 on case, ~20 on teensy, then buy this: Cherry G80-3000 Basically NIB ISO 105 key brown switch AT connection, custom dyed purple Portuguese PBT and purple lock lights - $45 from http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52322.0 for cheap switches. So about $110, but u get a really customized board with a really good controller.
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: joel96 on Sat, 28 December 2013, 23:49:25
Maybe someday. If I could pay someone to do it for me, I'd rather go that route. Right now I'm at the "I don't stinking care, let me just throw money around and get it over with" stage. So yeah, probably going to be the qfr, stealth, or TK. Or a custom that I don't have to be that involved with if it's cheap enough (but it's probably not--the kind of hours you're talking about, someone's going to want to put at least a $100 premium for labor on top of parts).
Title: Re: Topre vs ALPS vs MX Brown vs Red vs Filco vs Realforce vs USB3 v clicky v Matias
Post by: joel96 on Sun, 29 December 2013, 23:04:26
I was just about to buy a TK but the rebate caused all of newegg's stock to get sold out...next cheapest qftk is around $105.99 with taxes and shipping.