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geekhack Marketplace => Great Finds => Topic started by: aj-kun on Mon, 23 December 2013, 18:53:46

Title: KOSS ESP950 $699
Post by: aj-kun on Mon, 23 December 2013, 18:53:46
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/koss-esp950
Pretty good price for the Koss flagship. Very tempted to get a pair myself.
Title: Re: KOSS ESP950 $699
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 23 December 2013, 20:16:33
http://www.head-fi.org/t/119820/koss-esp-950-review

a review, apparently these used to be $599 at amazon
Title: Re: KOSS ESP950 $699
Post by: tjcaustin on Mon, 23 December 2013, 20:18:54
http://www.head-fi.org/t/119820/koss-esp-950-review

a review, apparently these used to be $599 at amazon

Note the review date.
Title: Re: KOSS ESP950 $699
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 23 December 2013, 20:31:54
http://www.head-fi.org/t/119820/koss-esp-950-review

a review, apparently these used to be $599 at amazon

Note the review date.

"used to be" :P
Title: Re: KOSS ESP950 $699
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 23 December 2013, 20:42:31
I thought the Japanese dominated the electro cans.
Title: Re: KOSS ESP950 $699
Post by: aj-kun on Tue, 24 December 2013, 00:58:01
They still do, but you need to pay at least $2500 for a new pair of Omega 2's & then you need to amp them. ESP 950 is pretty good bang for buck when it comes to estats. The only thing better would be if Hifiman released a HE Audio Jade successor.
Title: Re: KOSS ESP950 $699
Post by: terran5992 on Tue, 24 December 2013, 06:32:34
I dont understand why audiphile headsets are so expensive
Title: Re: KOSS ESP950 $699
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 24 December 2013, 08:44:56
I dont understand why audiphile headsets are so expensive

The word audiophile should give it away.
Title: Re: KOSS ESP950 $699
Post by: Binge on Tue, 24 December 2013, 10:10:47
I can say these are worth the full $1000.  They come with their own amplifier (energizer) and the sound quality is phenomenal.

I jumped at these because they were on sale on black friday and saved a lot.

This is the 2nd best deal I've seen before their price normalized again.

Electrostatic headphones are expensive because the stupid tech in them is so damn delicate.

To put it in different terms this is like a DSLR for sound.  A number of other headphones like $300-$600 Sennheisers are like a nice point and shoot.  They can all take pictures and really good ones, but the DSLR wins technically in every way you can take a picture.
Title: Re: KOSS ESP950 $699
Post by: dorkvader on Wed, 25 December 2013, 11:40:39
To put it in different terms this is like a DSLR for sound.  A number of other headphones like $300-$600 Sennheisers are like a nice point and shoot.  They can all take pictures and really good ones, but the DSLR wins technically in every way you can take a picture.
I disagree with your comparison. electrostatics have a lot of benefits over dynamics, but they hardly "win in every way".

Still, I will say the technology is excellent and features a lot of benefits. Same with planar magnetic headphones, the electrostatic driver moves forward all at once, rather than as a point like a dynamic. One reason the HD800 and friends have drivers the way they do is to minimize the negative effects of this.

You can DIY electrostatics pretty cheaply, but the process is very long, very delicate, and very labor intensive. The finished product should sound good, but usually look ugly and are uncomfortable.

Another reason for their expense is the safety factor. The bias voltage of an electrostatic driver is usually a few hundred volts. Having that sort of voltage near your head presents some safety challenges for a consumer product. Plasma speakers (and headphones, rare though they are: I know of only one) have the same issue.

Also, the amplifier is fundamentally different than a normal one in a few ways.

All these things ass to expense. Beyond what you get from just having an "audiophile" tag.
Title: Re: KOSS ESP950 $699
Post by: PointyFox on Wed, 25 December 2013, 11:50:18
Those used to sell for around $550-$600 a year or two ago.  They were considered outdated and not worth the cost then since even the old Stax Lambdas have better sound quality for less cost.  I was a bit surprised to see the price actually higher on Massdrop than I've seen on eBay/Amazon.

And no, electrostats aren't better in every way.  They fail horribly at bass reproduction.
Title: Re: KOSS ESP950 $699
Post by: Binge on Thu, 26 December 2013, 19:13:13
I disagree with your comparison. electrostatics have a lot of benefits over dynamics, but they hardly "win in every way".

There is a limit to how accurate a sound can get when produced by a diaphragm.  The diaphragm's ability to reproduce sound often has to be engineered around material constraints which are simplified, to a point, with an electrostatic model.  An electrostatic driver can produce sounds with distortion too low to hear and they do it at entry levels, and that is just a plainly stupid fact.  They can do it into the higher registers where orthodynamic drivers struggle to retain definition.  The LCD-3, LCD-X, and HE-6 are great examples of the lengths an ortho has to go to get that top end extension.

Making a point about how easy/hard they are to manufacture has nothing to do with the audio quality.  I don't understand how a $700 estat energizer and headphone
capable of outperforming most other headphones in that price bracket up to $1000 is beyond audiophile or whatever point you're attempting to make.

And no, electrostats aren't better in every way.  They fail horribly at bass reproduction.

Then you have not heard any electrostats.  Plain and simple you just have not.
Title: Re: KOSS ESP950 $699
Post by: noisyturtle on Thu, 26 December 2013, 19:33:14
The one pair of ES headphones I listened to were flat and muddy sounding. Just couldn't bring and vividness or lushness that even a much lower cost headphone would be able to bring, even if just a little. Probably unfair to judge all ES headphones off that one experience though.
Title: Re: KOSS ESP950 $699
Post by: PointyFox on Thu, 26 December 2013, 19:41:43
The one pair of ES headphones I listened to were flat and muddy sounding. Just couldn't bring and vividness or lushness that even a much lower cost headphone would be able to bring, even if just a little. Probably unfair to judge all ES headphones off that one experience though.

I've heard several of the Stax models and some crappier ones I forgot the make of.  Usually when an ES sounds muddy there is a problem with it, or it's the padding/foam they used in the earcups.  The best ES I've heard was a Stax Lambda Pro, and it was about as good as my Sennheiser HD600 in terms of sound quality.   My HD600 had much better bass.  The Stax had almost no bass impact and it was very weak.  This is due to how it's designed.  ES plates can't move as much air as dynamic drivers can.  However, ES headphones have excellent transparency and upper frequency reproduction.  When I first turned the Stax headphones on, I thought the music was coming from like 8 feet away and took the headphones off to check.   I think this is due to the plates creating more parallel sound waves due to having flatter drivers.
Title: Re: KOSS ESP950 $699
Post by: aj-kun on Thu, 26 December 2013, 20:35:42
And no, electrostats aren't better in every way.  They fail horribly at bass reproduction.
So you base your whole opinion on a 30 year old Lambda. Try an Omega 2 and I'm sure you won't have that same impression. Not bass heavy but bass extension and clarity are pretty amazing, my only dislike is it sounds a bit too warm at times.
Title: Re: KOSS ESP950 $699
Post by: Snigeln on Thu, 26 December 2013, 20:58:16
I dont understand why audiphile headsets are so expensive

How can you say that on a forum full of ppl that pay lots of money for several keyboards?

Meh, I like my K550's
Title: Re: KOSS ESP950 $699
Post by: PointyFox on Fri, 27 December 2013, 18:12:38
And no, electrostats aren't better in every way.  They fail horribly at bass reproduction.
So you base your whole opinion on a 30 year old Lambda. Try an Omega 2 and I'm sure you won't have that same impression. Not bass heavy but bass extension and clarity are pretty amazing, my only dislike is it sounds a bit too warm at times.


It better be amazing for $2000 plus like $600+ for the energizer.
Title: Re: KOSS ESP950 $699
Post by: demik on Fri, 27 December 2013, 18:27:48
I dont understand why audiphile headsets are so expensive

right? they should come free with the car ffs