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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: kmiller8 on Tue, 24 December 2013, 02:12:09

Title: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: kmiller8 on Tue, 24 December 2013, 02:12:09
For those who don't have an opinion either which way.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: riotonthebay on Tue, 24 December 2013, 02:14:00
I haven't tried Thorpe so I don't know what to think. But I certainly feel strongly about it.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: Air tree on Tue, 24 December 2013, 02:14:24
there is the HHKB hate thread, The love thread and now there is a mixed feelings thread. It never ends!
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: adhoc on Tue, 24 December 2013, 02:14:35
This is kind of pointless a thread to be honest...the love gets love and hate thread gets love, what would this get?

Alright, let me start off, I really like the HHKBP2. I love it, actually.

Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: kmiller8 on Tue, 24 December 2013, 02:15:53
This is kind of pointless a thread to be honest...the love gets love and hate thread gets love, what would this get?

welcome to my life.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: Belfong on Tue, 24 December 2013, 02:16:02
Yeah.. you are just encouraging me to type more on my HHKB .. and I assure you this thread will get many response because we just love to type on the HHKB.. you know... LOVEEEEEE!
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: Michael on Tue, 24 December 2013, 02:16:27
HHKB makes me feel funny in the pants area.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: riotonthebay on Tue, 24 December 2013, 02:17:35

HHKB makes me feel funny in the pants area.

I feel good about this.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: adhoc on Tue, 24 December 2013, 02:18:13
HHKB makes me feel funny in the pants area.

Yes.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: keymaster on Tue, 24 December 2013, 02:21:01
I haven't tried Thorpe so I don't know what to think. But I certainly feel strongly about it.

Lol'd

Thorpie feels good. I don't know what to do with this feel.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: adhoc on Tue, 24 December 2013, 02:21:39
Enjoy it?
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 24 December 2013, 03:18:24
Sometimes I think that my Thorpe doesn't Thock as much as it should.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tuxsavvy on Tue, 24 December 2013, 04:04:29
Actually neither love nor hate would be ideally where I stand. My HHKB experience has been ok for me so far, there are some things that I would love to have it appear in my HHKB along with a feature or two that I wouldn't really miss if my HHKB did not have it. Then there are things like HHKB HG which the case design I would just drool to have. Maybe if the individual keycaps were also made of the same material that would be really nice.

Apart from that I really love the feeling of typing on HHKB, it feels really soft and welcoming. Regardless of which other keyboards I am on (even though I have very few other keyboards let alone much mechanical keyboards at that) the feeling of typing on HHKB is just nice. Though contrary to that whenever I jump from HHKB to say for instance APC membrane I could feel the keys are really stiff (on the APC membrane - yes it is at least a decades old technology that has been "backyard tech" refurbished) on my fingers yet the HHKB is just there teasing me about how soft if feels. I don't know about you guys but HHKB is really "sucking" me in slowly and gradually with the nice feel, with the slight varied layout (as opposed to HHKB Pro2 which I don't have) and that I have sunk in a fair amount of money for.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: Belfong on Tue, 24 December 2013, 05:15:30
<insert the photo about typing on boobs>
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: terran5992 on Tue, 24 December 2013, 05:18:19
Love it
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tuxsavvy on Tue, 24 December 2013, 05:24:44
<insert the photo about typing on boobs>
*Catches a hint of that and notices something written in the signature then posts this...*
Cloud of boobs.

Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=40582.0;attach=14215;image)

Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: neunelfer on Tue, 24 December 2013, 06:22:40
Since I don't have mine yet, this would probably be the thread to say this in. There are a few things I know of that I see as potential cons:

Actually, I thought there was more than that. Someone dispel my concerns  :'(
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: terran5992 on Tue, 24 December 2013, 06:34:52
Pros

-Topruhh switches

Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: Snigeln on Tue, 24 December 2013, 06:36:55
Since I don't have mine yet, this would probably be the thread to say this in. There are a few things I know of that I see as potential cons:
  • ABS spacebar
  • Too light
  • Feet not grippy enough

Actually, I thought there was more than that. Someone dispel my concerns  :'(

That it's light is a plus if you carry it with you. I guess the Pro2 is the same as the JP when it comes to grippyness (which is terrible) but that is easy to fix with some cheap rubber pads
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tuxsavvy on Tue, 24 December 2013, 08:05:44
Since I don't have mine yet, this would probably be the thread to say this in. There are a few things I know of that I see as potential cons:
  • ABS spacebar
  • Too light
  • Feet not grippy enough
Actually, I thought there was more than that. Someone dispel my concerns  :'(

That it's light is a plus if you carry it with you. I guess the Pro2 is the same as the JP when it comes to grippyness (which is terrible) but that is easy to fix with some cheap rubber pads
HHKB Pro JP has PBT spacebar but is smaller in aesthetics. Not sure on the plastic used on Pro2 but Pro JP it is ABS. Pro2 has a "bit of a" con and that is with USB hub not able to power up certain equipment (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49129.msg1170234#msg1170234). Also one other person has reported issues with it not being compatible with iPad (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49129.msg1170553#msg1170553) or something.

I don't have HHKB Pro2 so I wouldn't be able to test either of the cases however.

HHKB, in fact Topre are also rated at 30 million key presses or more (http://www.pfu.fujitsu.com/news/2011/new110615.html) (warning link is in Japanese) as opposed to Cherry MX (for instance) whose are rated at 50 million key presses. Topre key caps in general are not as common as Cherry MX key caps but replacement key caps are usually PBT based plastic with dye-sublimation (to prevent both yellowing and/or legends wearing easily). Again Pro2 spacebar is only in ABS unlike Pro JP which is PBT. Topre switches are designed distinctively different from Cherry MX. It maybe easy for one to buy Cherry MX switches and replace them with some tools but the same thing cannot be done with Topre switches. The rubber dome sits over the conical spring and all these are sitting on a single PCB. Also one cannot buy lighter switches as a single unit/piece. They must buy the entire keyboard to harvest the rubber domes for instance out of that other keyboard for use with HHKB (http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/hhkp-pro-jp-variable-force-silencing-mods-t5196.html?hilit=silencing%20mod).

HHKB Pro in Japan, apparently is was cheaper for one to buy the HHKB Pro JP as opposed to HHKB Pro2 (http://kakaku.com/search_results/Happy+Hacking+Professional/). (link again is in Japanese). HHKB Pro Type-S series are an exception here.

HHKB Pro2 lacks a few keys like right control, dedicated arrow keys and is more orientated as ANSI layout. HHKB Pro JP virtually follows the JIS layout but also incorporates dedicated arrow keys. However at the expense of all that the DIP switch settings on both the HHKB Pro2 and HHKB Pro JP are different (http://www.pfu.fujitsu.com/hhkeyboard/leaflet/hhkb_backview.html). (link again in Japanese)

HHKB like Realforce, Leopold, etc generally has their own unique set of key cap dimensions. On most keys like alphanumerical key caps it is easily replaceable/interchangeable between most Topre based keyboard (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=37487.msg715325#msg715325). The modifier keys are not as easily interchangeable. HHKB Pro2 may have closer similarities with Realforce spare key cap range but you won't be able to find a red left control key (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=7828.0) for instance.

One more point I almost forgot to add, HHKB in particular has the "slider housing" molded as part of the keyboard case. So that makes designing a custom case a little more challenging for instance.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 24 December 2013, 08:37:17
HHKB makes me feel funny in the pants area.

That's exactly why we need moar HHKB threads!
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: absyrd on Tue, 24 December 2013, 08:55:25
I like this thread because I don't give a **** either way. Thanks for finding a place for me, kmiller.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: hcry4 on Tue, 24 December 2013, 09:48:58
HHKB makes me feel funny in the pants area.

If HHKB were a woman, I'd make love to it, too.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: demik on Tue, 24 December 2013, 10:03:04
HHKB should be the only keyboard produced. Every other keyboard is LITERALLY beneath it in every way. Teachers should take away points from students if their papers aren't typed on a HHKB.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: dustinhxc on Tue, 24 December 2013, 10:36:46
I love my HHKB pro 2!!! But wish there were dedicated arrows.. But that'd ruin the perfect look..
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: riotonthebay on Tue, 24 December 2013, 10:44:37
HHKB should be the only keyboard produced. Every other keyboard is LITERALLY beneath it in every way. Teachers should take away points from students if their papers aren't typed on a HHKB.

I was perfectly happy with my ergo clears before these threads started. Now I'm questioning every keyboard decision I've ever made.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: neunelfer on Tue, 24 December 2013, 10:46:18
HHKB should be the only keyboard produced. Every other keyboard is LITERALLY beneath it in every way. Teachers should take away points from students if their papers aren't typed on a HHKB.

I was perfectly happy with my ergo clears before these threads started. Now I'm questioning every keyboard decision I've ever made.

But you weren't Happy Hacking...
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 24 December 2013, 10:48:18
I pretend typed on an HHKB once.  It felt pretty good.  Not good enough to make me go buy right away, but it was alright.  Now I'm tempted to maybe get a thorpe keyboard.  I don't know how to feel about it.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: Puddsy on Tue, 24 December 2013, 10:54:31
It's a keyboard
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: demik on Tue, 24 December 2013, 11:09:36
HHKB should be the only keyboard produced. Every other keyboard is LITERALLY beneath it in every way. Teachers should take away points from students if their papers aren't typed on a HHKB.

I was perfectly happy with my ergo clears before these threads started. Now I'm questioning every keyboard decision I've ever made.

In terms of happiness.

Typing on hhkb > your first beer > your first concert > first negative pregnancy scare > first born
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: dustinhxc on Tue, 24 December 2013, 11:12:28
HHKB should be the only keyboard produced. Every other keyboard is LITERALLY beneath it in every way. Teachers should take away points from students if their papers aren't typed on a HHKB.

I was perfectly happy with my ergo clears before these threads started. Now I'm questioning every keyboard decision I've ever made.

In terms of happiness.

Typing on hhkb > your first beer > your first concert > first negative pregnancy scare > first born

Lol !
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: taylordcraig on Tue, 24 December 2013, 12:42:39
Your first beer was better than your first concert? I thought I knew you, Demik.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: demik on Tue, 24 December 2013, 13:26:27
Your first beer was better than your first concert? I thought I knew you, Demik.
You either had bad beer or didn't make musical mistakes as a youngster.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: taylordcraig on Tue, 24 December 2013, 13:28:49
Your first beer was better than your first concert? I thought I knew you, Demik.
You either had bad beer or didn't make musical mistakes as a youngster.

Beer is great here in BC [WUT WUT] I guess I made some terrible musical mistakes but, at the time loved them so much, they seem like fond memories.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: PointyFox on Tue, 24 December 2013, 13:30:20
Your first beer was better than your first concert? I thought I knew you, Demik.
You either had bad beer or didn't make musical mistakes as a youngster.


My first beer was Budweiser  :'(
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: demik on Tue, 24 December 2013, 13:30:21
Oh the memories are fond. But thinking back I enjoyed my first beer more than my first concert.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: Snigeln on Tue, 24 December 2013, 19:02:19
My first beer was Budweiser  :'(

No it wasn't, tap water doesn't count!
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: Emospence on Thu, 26 December 2013, 00:31:00
Love the switch feel, too unused to layout
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: atlas3686 on Thu, 26 December 2013, 04:41:52
My first beer was Budweiser  :'(

No it wasn't, tap water doesn't count!

All the Americans here have my deepest sympathies with regards to beer for some reason you guys get screwed on beer.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: adhoc on Thu, 26 December 2013, 06:24:32
Eh, Americans...we've got beer older than their country over here in Europe! ;D

Seriously though, you have not drank beer until you've been to Czech. You have to see that...beer is like 0.5$ per 0.5 litre and you've got like 30 beers to choose from even in ordinary bars. Hell, you can even choose one brand of beer and then choose how strong you want it to be on this specific beer-o-scale.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: takethree on Thu, 26 December 2013, 09:48:14
Ok. I've received my HHKB Pro 2.

Just my initial impressions of it.

What I'm experiencing so far, you can put me under the "HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings" category lol.
Title: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: Belfong on Thu, 26 December 2013, 10:03:18
It grows on you.. And one day you find that you can't live without it.. Like a wife. Ha ha.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: neunelfer on Thu, 26 December 2013, 15:27:16
Ok. I've received my HHKB Pro 2.

Just my initial impressions of it.

What I'm experiencing so far, you can put me under the "HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings" category lol.

I got mine yesterday and pretty much love everything about it. What do you have mixed feelings about?
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 26 December 2013, 15:35:59
You notice a great deal of topre fanboi-ng  in every topre thread..

Most of the owners are too detered to admitting they've spent $300 on a "meh" keyboard..


And the LOVE that they speak of, is Overcompensation in fueling the need to justify their purchase..


The alternative is to say.. ****.. I squandered/wasted $300...    This is psychologically difficult to deal with if $300 represent a significant portion of their expenses..


I've yet to see a thread that objectively evaluates HHKB as I have...

(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/044.gif)
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: adhoc on Thu, 26 December 2013, 15:44:38
Seriously, not every keyboard is for everyone. You're talking about it as if it is the worst thing you could buy, "wasting 300$". You're overreacting with jizzing over your ergo keyboards 3 people in the world care about and with your hate talk you're just as bad as all the fan boys orgasming over the HHKB as if it's the best thing ever made.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: eth0s on Thu, 26 December 2013, 15:46:36

I've yet to see a thread that subjectively evaluates HHKB as I have...

Show Image
(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/044.gif)


First, I think tp4 meant to say "objectively" instead of "subjectively", since he is claiming HHKB lovers are too subjective in their descriptions of their keyboards.

Second, the word "fanboi" went out of fashion in 2005.

Third, HHKB is better than any other keyboard available. 

Fourth, I am ambivalent about mixed feelings.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 26 December 2013, 15:46:49
Seriously, not every keyboard is for everyone. You're talking about as if it is the ****tiest thing you could buy, "wasting 300$". You're overreacting with jizzing over your ergo keyboards 3 people in the world care about and with your hate talk you're just as bad as all the fan boys orgasming over the HHKB as if it's the best thing ever made.

No I am not..

I evaluate all keyboards I've ever used based solely on their USEFUL attributes..

I exclude aesthetics and my emotions over them completely..
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 26 December 2013, 15:48:03

I've yet to see a thread that subjectively evaluates HHKB as I have...

Show Image
(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/044.gif)


First, I think tp4 meant to say "objectively" instead of "subjectively", since he is claiming HHKB lovers are too subjective in their descriptions of their keyboards.

Second, the word "fanboi" went out of fashion in 2005.

Third, HHKB is better than any other keyboard available. 

Fourth, I am ambivalent about mixed feelings.

corrected, thx.. I typed it out too fast, cuz the Egdx is just soooo ergonomic that sometimes I can't control the speed of my fingers.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: adhoc on Thu, 26 December 2013, 15:50:54
No, I am quite 100% positive you are overreacting with your hate. Doesn't matter, anybody reading through your posts can identify that and disregard your "objectivity" immediately.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 26 December 2013, 15:53:33
No, I am quite 100% positive you are overreacting with your hate. Doesn't matter, anybody reading through your posts can identify that and disregard your "objectivity" immediately.

LOL.. fanboi much?

And the perfect example of your insane emotion.. is the fact that you read my post as hatred for HHKB..

I do not hate HHKB or Topre..   I hate fanbois  who mislead people into buying something by hyping their personal purchases above what it actually is..

And what's worse, is they mostly do it for a selfish reason, such that they themselves do not feel cheated of $300.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: neunelfer on Thu, 26 December 2013, 15:55:03
Seriously, not every keyboard is for everyone. You're talking about as if it is the ****tiest thing you could buy, "wasting 300$". You're overreacting with jizzing over your ergo keyboards 3 people in the world care about and with your hate talk you're just as bad as all the fan boys orgasming over the HHKB as if it's the best thing ever made.

No I am not..

I evaluate all keyboards I've ever used based solely on their USEFUL attributes..

I exclude aesthetics and my emotions over them completely..

So I guess that means you have no reason to post in this thread again.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: adhoc on Thu, 26 December 2013, 15:56:54
No, not really. I found several flaws with HHKB when I received it, but I am still enjoying it. Doesn't matter how many times you're going to tell me I wasted my money, how much it sucks and how it's the worst keyboard on this planet, I will continue enjoying it since 1.) I PERSONALLY like it and 2.) although I'm relatively new here I have disregarded your opinion and credibility completely since 98% of your posts are calling every non ergo keyboard **** and ergo dox the best keyboard ever made. Now THAT'S fanboyism.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 26 December 2013, 16:03:11
No, not really. I found several flaws with HHKB when I received it, but I am still enjoying it. Doesn't matter how many times you're going to tell me I wasted my money, how much it sucks and how it's the worst keyboard on this planet, I will continue enjoying it since 1.) I PERSONALLY like it and 2.) although I'm relatively new here I have disregarded your opinion and credibility completely since 98% of your posts are calling every non ergo keyboard **** and ergo dox the best keyboard ever made. Now THAT'S fanboyism.

I'm not telling YOU, that YOU've wasted money.. where have I said that...

here, YOU"RE telling me that you've wasted money... because of your defensiveness, and the gushing of emotional roundabouts in your response.

This entire time, if you don't believe that you're part of the crowd that I accuse of worshiping a false idol.. then you have nothing to defend..

And yet here you are... hell bent on PROVING something to me...


Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: atlas3686 on Thu, 26 December 2013, 16:29:50
Tp4tissue, I see your argument and I think you would be right if it weren't for one thing, the hhkb pretty much sells for what you pay for it so there is no loss if you don't like it you would just say I didn't like it and sell it. If that weren't the case your argument would make a lot of sense. But because that is the case and their are still so few hhkb haters what that tells me is that it's the master race keyboard  :p
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 26 December 2013, 16:47:31
Tp4tissue, I see your argument and I think you would be right if it weren't for one thing, the hhkb pretty much sells for what you pay for it so there is no loss if you don't like it you would just say I didn't like it and sell it. If that weren't the case your argument would make a lot of sense. But because that is the case and their are still so few hhkb haters what that tells me is that it's the master race keyboard  :p

The view I put forward could be the extreme case.. this is true, and I recognize that there may be people who are only "very slightly" disappointed in the HHKB they bought..

You're absolutely right that they could sell the HHKB and get some of the money back..

However, to reach that threshold requires an emotional leap to admit fault..

This is the obstacle most difficult to cross for the less objective hobbyist..


In the end.. it's a keyboard... why all the emotion.... BECAUSE the people who bought them didn't simply buy a "tool",  they bought a relatively expensive status symbol, they bought into appeasement of a yearning emotion...

Then they feel obligated to continue that slew of "good-vibes" by posting their support of it online..


The HHKB is akin to a Horse-Drawn-Carriage, however "gilded" and nice it may have been made, it is wood being pulled by horses..

An Egdx, for what it lacks in outward appearance, it is still like a gasoline atuomobile in comparison to the HHKB..
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: sth on Thu, 26 December 2013, 16:52:58
Tp4tissue, I see your argument and I think you would be right if it weren't for one thing, the hhkb pretty much sells for what you pay for it so there is no loss if you don't like it you would just say I didn't like it and sell it. If that weren't the case your argument would make a lot of sense. But because that is the case and their are still so few hhkb haters what that tells me is that it's the master race keyboard  :p

No, not really. I found several flaws with HHKB when I received it, but I am still enjoying it. Doesn't matter how many times you're going to tell me I wasted my money, how much it sucks and how it's the worst keyboard on this planet, I will continue enjoying it since 1.) I PERSONALLY like it and 2.) although I'm relatively new here I have disregarded your opinion and credibility completely since 98% of your posts are calling every non ergo keyboard **** and ergo dox the best keyboard ever made. Now THAT'S fanboyism.

hahahahaha stop.

also not-haha, master-race is a nazi term (really it really actually really is. really)

--typed on a hhkb
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: fuzzybaffy on Thu, 26 December 2013, 16:55:45
The difference between most people and tp4tissue is, most people express their opinions. tp4tissue tells other people their opinions are wrong.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 26 December 2013, 17:00:38
The difference between most people and tp4tissue is, most people express their opinions. tp4tissue tells other people their opinions are wrong.

I don't think I am absolutely right on all accounts.. I may have quoted that I'm 99.9% right, IN JEST..(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/th_057_.gif)




With respect to Keyboards, which is a simple matter...

___Have you consider the fact that the reason you're reading my posts as IMPOSING and TELLING you what to do...  Is simply because of the fact that I am slightly "more" right in looking at the bigger picture of keyboarding?
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: Sifo on Thu, 26 December 2013, 17:12:16
I don't mind them.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: adhoc on Thu, 26 December 2013, 17:14:39
also not-haha, master-race is a nazi term (really it really actually really is. really)

No it's not. It's a wrong translation by Americans who have absolutely no idea what went on in Europe during WW2.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: sth on Thu, 26 December 2013, 17:17:06
also not-haha, master-race is a nazi term (really it really actually really is. really)

No it's not. It's a wrong translation by Americans who have absolutely no idea what went on in Europe during WW2.

dude http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_race
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 26 December 2013, 17:17:19
also not-haha, master-race is a nazi term (really it really actually really is. really)

No it's not. It's a wrong translation by Americans who have absolutely no idea what went on in Europe during WW2.

what went on during ww2 was obvious..

The understanding of Unresolved tension post-WW1 is more important in avoiding conflict, going forward.

You don't kick a man while he's down and taunt him and extract cheap labor out of him..

You either kill him then and there, or you let him up and give him all the rights you afford to yourself.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: adhoc on Thu, 26 December 2013, 17:20:35
also not-haha, master-race is a nazi term (really it really actually really is. really)

No it's not. It's a wrong translation by Americans who have absolutely no idea what went on in Europe during WW2.

dude http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_race

Yes. Like I said, a wrong translation. Also: sourcing info from wikipedia, classy lul.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 26 December 2013, 17:22:02
also not-haha, master-race is a nazi term (really it really actually really is. really)

No it's not. It's a wrong translation by Americans who have absolutely no idea what went on in Europe during WW2.

dude http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_race

Yes. Like I said, a wrong translation. Also: sourcing info from wikipedia, classy lul.

it's a locked article.. so yea.. it's accurate.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: sth on Thu, 26 December 2013, 17:23:19
also not-haha, master-race is a nazi term (really it really actually really is. really)

No it's not. It's a wrong translation by Americans who have absolutely no idea what went on in Europe during WW2.

dude http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_race

Yes. Like I said, a wrong translation. Also: sourcing info from wikipedia, classy lul.

sure dude, i won't tell anyone you're a nazi sympathizer
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 26 December 2013, 17:29:38
also not-haha, master-race is a nazi term (really it really actually really is. really)

No it's not. It's a wrong translation by Americans who have absolutely no idea what went on in Europe during WW2.

dude http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_race

Yes. Like I said, a wrong translation. Also: sourcing info from wikipedia, classy lul.

sure dude, i won't tell anyone you're a nazi sympathizer

dude, u can't say that..
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: sth on Thu, 26 December 2013, 17:30:19
also not-haha, master-race is a nazi term (really it really actually really is. really)

No it's not. It's a wrong translation by Americans who have absolutely no idea what went on in Europe during WW2.

dude http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_race

Yes. Like I said, a wrong translation. Also: sourcing info from wikipedia, classy lul.

sure dude, i won't tell anyone you're a nazi sympathizer

dude, u can't say that..

i pretty specifically said i wouldn't
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: riotonthebay on Thu, 26 December 2013, 17:33:22
also not-haha, master-race is a nazi term (really it really actually really is. really)

No it's not. It's a wrong translation by Americans who have absolutely no idea what went on in Europe during WW2.

dude http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_race

Yes. Like I said, a wrong translation. Also: sourcing info from wikipedia, classy lul.

sure dude, i won't tell anyone you're a nazi sympathizer

dude, u can't say that..

i pretty specifically said i wouldn't

Seriously though, let's not bring McCarthyism back. :(
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: sth on Thu, 26 December 2013, 17:34:35
also not-haha, master-race is a nazi term (really it really actually really is. really)

No it's not. It's a wrong translation by Americans who have absolutely no idea what went on in Europe during WW2.

dude http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_race

Yes. Like I said, a wrong translation. Also: sourcing info from wikipedia, classy lul.

sure dude, i won't tell anyone you're a nazi sympathizer

dude, u can't say that..

i pretty specifically said i wouldn't

Seriously though, let's not bring McCarthyism back. :(

tell you what i won't bring mccarthyism back if everybody on geekhack stops thinking 'master race' is a good thing to say ever
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: riotonthebay on Thu, 26 December 2013, 17:36:19
also not-haha, master-race is a nazi term (really it really actually really is. really)

No it's not. It's a wrong translation by Americans who have absolutely no idea what went on in Europe during WW2.

dude http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_race

Yes. Like I said, a wrong translation. Also: sourcing info from wikipedia, classy lul.

sure dude, i won't tell anyone you're a nazi sympathizer

dude, u can't say that..

i pretty specifically said i wouldn't

Seriously though, let's not bring McCarthyism back. :(

tell you what i won't bring mccarthyism back if everybody on geekhack stops thinking 'master race' is a good thing to say ever

This is a totally reasonable request that I agree with, but wantonly suggesting that someone's a Nazi sympathizer is a great way to get people to not take that conversation seriously.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: sth on Thu, 26 December 2013, 17:38:55
also not-haha, master-race is a nazi term (really it really actually really is. really)

No it's not. It's a wrong translation by Americans who have absolutely no idea what went on in Europe during WW2.

dude http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_race

Yes. Like I said, a wrong translation. Also: sourcing info from wikipedia, classy lul.

sure dude, i won't tell anyone you're a nazi sympathizer

dude, u can't say that..

i pretty specifically said i wouldn't

Seriously though, let's not bring McCarthyism back. :(

tell you what i won't bring mccarthyism back if everybody on geekhack stops thinking 'master race' is a good thing to say ever

This is a totally reasonable request that I agree with, but wantonly suggesting that someone's a Nazi sympathizer is a great way to get people to not take that conversation seriously.

i don't care even a little bit about people who don't already  :(
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: adhoc on Thu, 26 December 2013, 17:40:00
also not-haha, master-race is a nazi term (really it really actually really is. really)

No it's not. It's a wrong translation by Americans who have absolutely no idea what went on in Europe during WW2.

dude http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_race

Yes. Like I said, a wrong translation. Also: sourcing info from wikipedia, classy lul.

sure dude, i won't tell anyone you're a nazi sympathizer

dude, u can't say that..

i pretty specifically said i wouldn't

Seriously though, let's not bring McCarthyism back. :(

tell you what i won't bring mccarthyism back if everybody on geekhack stops thinking 'master race' is a good thing to say ever

This is a totally reasonable request that I agree with, but wantonly suggesting that someone's a Nazi sympathizer is a great way to get people to not take that conversation seriously.

Well I am taking it seriously. I would like to thank geekhack for the pleasurable few weeks, but I've met enough self entitled brats here in a few weeks to last me a life time.

P.S.: I actually speak German unlike you. The translation IS wrong.

cya
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: sth on Thu, 26 December 2013, 17:41:44
also not-haha, master-race is a nazi term (really it really actually really is. really)

No it's not. It's a wrong translation by Americans who have absolutely no idea what went on in Europe during WW2.

dude http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_race

Yes. Like I said, a wrong translation. Also: sourcing info from wikipedia, classy lul.

sure dude, i won't tell anyone you're a nazi sympathizer

dude, u can't say that..

i pretty specifically said i wouldn't

Seriously though, let's not bring McCarthyism back. :(

tell you what i won't bring mccarthyism back if everybody on geekhack stops thinking 'master race' is a good thing to say ever

This is a totally reasonable request that I agree with, but wantonly suggesting that someone's a Nazi sympathizer is a great way to get people to not take that conversation seriously.

Well I am taking it seriously. I would like to thank geekhack for the pleasurable few weeks, but I've met enough self entitled brats here in a few weeks to last me a life time.

P.S.: I actually speak German unlike you. The translation IS wrong.

cya

awesome :llama:
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: neunelfer on Thu, 26 December 2013, 17:44:56
So..how about those HHKBs? They're pretty nice.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 26 December 2013, 17:46:07
So..how about those HHKBs? They're pretty nice.

they're aight...

nothing special really...

compact yes.. but too limited in features, and configur-ability.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: Snigeln on Thu, 26 December 2013, 17:57:13
So..how about those HHKBs? They're pretty nice.

they're aight...

nothing special really...

compact yes.. but too limited in features, and configur-ability.

I've had mine (the JP ver..) for about a week now. I effin love it, but if I were to spend all that money on one today then I would not do it. It's nice, but not worth the money :( My "cheap" MX boards are much nicer for what I paid
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 26 December 2013, 18:02:52
So..how about those HHKBs? They're pretty nice.

they're aight...

nothing special really...

compact yes.. but too limited in features, and configur-ability.

I've had mine (the JP ver..) for about a week now. I effin love it, but if I were to spend all that money on one today then I would not do it. It's nice, but not worth the money :( My "cheap" MX boards are much nicer for what I paid

Try out the Egdx when you get the chance, maybe @ one of those meet ups.

(http://a.deviantart.net/avatars/a/b/aboishappyplz.gif?1)
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: Snigeln on Thu, 26 December 2013, 18:06:25
So..how about those HHKBs? They're pretty nice.

they're aight...

nothing special really...

compact yes.. but too limited in features, and configur-ability.

I've had mine (the JP ver..) for about a week now. I effin love it, but if I were to spend all that money on one today then I would not do it. It's nice, but not worth the money :( My "cheap" MX boards are much nicer for what I paid

Try out the Egdx when you get the chance, maybe @ one of those meet ups.

Show Image
(http://a.deviantart.net/avatars/a/b/aboishappyplz.gif?1)


Pls don't, you guys have already ruined me, I've only been here for a couple of weeks and have already bought a HHKB and a wooden case for my 60% board. NO MORE!
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 26 December 2013, 18:07:39
It's nice, but not worth the money :( My "cheap" MX boards are much nicer for what I paid

You might try to liquor up sth and have that statement tattoo'd onto his arse for good measure.  That way in prison he'll let his bunk mates know what he truly prefers.......  :thumb: .
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: Snigeln on Thu, 26 December 2013, 18:09:43
It's nice, but not worth the money :( My "cheap" MX boards are much nicer for what I paid

You might try to liquor up sth and have that statement tattoo'd onto his arse for good measure.  That way in prison he'll let his bunk mates know what he truly prefers.......  :thumb: .

Get him over here and I promise that I'll make it happen.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: sth on Thu, 26 December 2013, 18:14:28
:-*
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: Snigeln on Thu, 26 December 2013, 18:18:14
:-*

You know you want it
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 26 December 2013, 19:24:56
This thread :))

Happy holidays everyone ;D
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: fuzzybaffy on Thu, 26 December 2013, 19:59:18
Quote
___Have you consider the fact that the reason you're reading my posts as IMPOSING and TELLING you what to do...  Is simply because of the fact that I am slightly "more" right in looking at the bigger picture of keyboarding?

Not really. Whether someone prefers Topre or Cherry is a matter of subjective opinion. The fact that you believe your "bigger" perspective on keyboarding makes your opinion more right than others reveals you are a bigoted douche.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: neunelfer on Thu, 26 December 2013, 20:08:42
My HHKB gives me mixed feelings. It feels really nice.. when I go back to my Filco it doesn't feel as nice  :(
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: Pacifist on Thu, 26 December 2013, 20:11:34
My HHKB gives me mixed feelings. It feels really nice.. when I go back to my Filco it doesn't feel as nice  :(
\

wait until you get a korean custom
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: neunelfer on Thu, 26 December 2013, 20:18:27
My HHKB gives me mixed feelings. It feels really nice.. when I go back to my Filco it doesn't feel as nice  :(
\

wait until you get a korean custom

You mean lubed switches?
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: riotonthebay on Thu, 26 December 2013, 20:20:19
My HHKB gives me mixed feelings. It feels really nice.. when I go back to my Filco it doesn't feel as nice  :(
\

wait until you get a korean custom

You mean lubed switches?

Yeah I don't really know what he means either.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: SpAmRaY on Thu, 26 December 2013, 20:20:41
My HHKB gives me mixed feelings. It feels really nice.. when I go back to my Filco it doesn't feel as nice  :(
\

wait until you get a korean custom

You know this from experience?
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: neunelfer on Thu, 26 December 2013, 20:28:10
My HHKB gives me mixed feelings. It feels really nice.. when I go back to my Filco it doesn't feel as nice  :(
\

wait until you get a korean custom

You know this from experience?

I don't think he has a Korean custom or Topre..
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: riotonthebay on Thu, 26 December 2013, 20:31:05
My HHKB gives me mixed feelings. It feels really nice.. when I go back to my Filco it doesn't feel as nice  :(
\

wait until you get a korean custom

You know this from experience?

I don't think he has a Korean custom or Topre..

But he does have… opinions!
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 26 December 2013, 20:49:00
Quote
___Have you consider the fact that the reason you're reading my posts as IMPOSING and TELLING you what to do...  Is simply because of the fact that I am slightly "more" right in looking at the bigger picture of keyboarding?

Not really. Whether someone prefers Topre or Cherry is a matter of subjective opinion. The fact that you believe your "bigger" perspective on keyboarding makes your opinion more right than others reveals you are a bigoted douche.

No... this is not an argument about topre or cherry..   This is Egdx, vs rectangle

I consider the Topre Split keyboard a great board along side Egdx.. but it's been just too hard to buy one.


The feel of a switch, topre, cherry, all irrelevant in my evaluation of keyboards, because they make almost no difference in usability.

It is a FACT that extended use of flat rectangular keyboards manifests RSI.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: demik on Thu, 26 December 2013, 20:52:42
My HHKB gives me mixed feelings. It feels really nice.. when I go back to my Filco it doesn't feel as nice  :(
\

wait until you get a korean custom

You mean lubed switches?

he means he's talking out of his ass of something he has no idea about.


again.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: histevenhere on Thu, 26 December 2013, 23:58:18
Never got use to the layout and it has been in the shelf for a year now :(. Using a rf for the topre though :D.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: 1pq on Fri, 27 December 2013, 00:37:39
Never got use to the layout and it has been in the shelf for a year now :(. Using a rf for the topre though :D.

If you'd like to try a 60% with a more standard layout (normal backspace, dedicated arrow keys) you should try the Leopold FC660C. Although the laser-etched keycaps don't look amazing, the thing feels as good as any HHKB (better according to some :gasp:).
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: Pacifist on Fri, 27 December 2013, 00:41:52
Never got use to the layout and it has been in the shelf for a year now :(. Using a rf for the topre though :D.

will you sell the hhkb?
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: rowdy on Fri, 27 December 2013, 00:48:55
Never got use to the layout and it has been in the shelf for a year now :(. Using a rf for the topre though :D.

will you sell the hhkb?

If the "struggling student" bit refers to financially, in contradistinction to educationally, it might be a possibility ;)
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tuxsavvy on Fri, 27 December 2013, 00:55:43
I was about to say, the thread quickly went down hill when "you-know-what" was mentioned. Thankfully the thread rebounced.

Anyway I bought my HHKB was for reasons really other than the fact that it was based on Topre switch. The fact that it is using Topre switch was a bit of a bonus for me but at the point when my interest was heightened prior to my purchase of HHKB; the one of the main reason was that I cared about one thing which was that it is a "mechanical keyboard". Regardless of how people went about their own ways declaring that it isn't or it is hybrid/part/etc. To me it is a mechanical keyboard and not a rubber dome keyboard, or rubber dome on membrane sheets. Should one be curious as to my reasons for HHKB, they don't have to look any further than my thread which is linked on my signature.

I can be pretty cruel here and say that I wouldn't have cared if HHKB is usng Cherry MX, Bucking spring, Alps, or even Hall effect. The only thing that mattered was that it was reassuring to know that HHKB was virtually entirely made in Japan. I never knew that until much later on along with all the extra little perks for being HHKB owner such as hasu's TMK project or bluetooth modding project for instance. There are plenty more but I am not going to repeat myself over other every little perks of having HHKB.

I am just happy and content with my HHKB despite some of its shortcomings. I guess most other HHKB owners can somewhat relate when they noticed that HHKB lacked either this or that. The part that matters the most is that one has the said material. That is all that matters.

No keyboard is perfect for everyone, because everyone has their own taste/preference. To fight over preferences is quite silly. That is why there is a market for HHKB, there is a market for ErgoDox, there is a market for IBM Model M, etc.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 27 December 2013, 01:16:49
I was about to say, the thread quickly went down hill when "you-know-what" was mentioned. Thankfully the thread rebounced.

Anyway I bought my HHKB was for reasons really other than the fact that it was based on Topre switch. The fact that it is using Topre switch was a bit of a bonus for me but at the point when my interest was heightened prior to my purchase of HHKB; the one of the main reason was that I cared about one thing which was that it is a "mechanical keyboard". Regardless of how people went about their own ways declaring that it isn't or it is hybrid/part/etc. To me it is a mechanical keyboard and not a rubber dome keyboard, or rubber dome on membrane sheets. Should one be curious as to my reasons for HHKB, they don't have to look any further than my thread which is linked on my signature.

I can be pretty cruel here and say that I wouldn't have cared if HHKB is usng Cherry MX, Bucking spring, Alps, or even Hall effect. The only thing that mattered was that it was reassuring to know that HHKB was virtually entirely made in Japan. I never knew that until much later on along with all the extra little perks for being HHKB owner such as hasu's TMK project or bluetooth modding project for instance. There are plenty more but I am not going to repeat myself over other every little perks of having HHKB.

I am just happy and content with my HHKB despite some of its shortcomings. I guess most other HHKB owners can somewhat relate when they noticed that HHKB lacked either this or that. The part that matters the most is that one has the said material. That is all that matters.

No keyboard is perfect for everyone, because everyone has their own taste/preference. To fight over preferences is quite silly. That is why there is a market for HHKB, there is a market for ErgoDox, there is a market for IBM Model M, etc.

The difference between an Egdx and the HHKB rectangle is NOT a matter of preference..

Egdx is fully programmable

It conforms to the shape of ones hand

It conforms to the natural resting angle of ones wrists

It can be modified for any mx switch.. linear, or tactile

If you decide you'd like a different switch, you can easily swap them out without desoldering.

Egdxs' split-design also accomodates people with broad shoulders whose arms are further apart


The HHKB... is derivative, and is quite simply the least common denominator in design, and it performs no better or worse than any other rectangular keyboard..


The only thing that makes it special is like you've said, it's "made in japan"...  If being a weeaboo is all ur after... mission accomplished..

But to those who actually want to extract every ounce of knowledge and science out of the keyboarding hobby,   to go BEYOND simple ownership and materialistic acquisition of trophies.. 

The path towards KEYBOARD zen is only revealed to those who are willing to rethink traditions and minimize their ancestral hoarding.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: 1pq on Fri, 27 December 2013, 01:23:13
The difference between an Egdx and the HHKB rectangle is NOT a matter of preference..

Egdx is fully programmable

It conforms to the shape of ones hand

It conforms to the natural resting angle of ones wrists

It can be modified for any mx switch.. linear, or tactile

If you decide you'd like a different switch, you can easily swap them out without desoldering.

Egdxs' split-design also accomodates people with broad shoulders whose arms are further apart


The HHKB... is derivative, and is quite simply the least common denominator in design, and it performs no better or worse than any other rectangular keyboard..


The only thing that makes it special is like you've said, it's "made in japan"...  If being a weeaboo is all ur after... mission accomplished..

But to those who actually want to extract every ounce of knowledge and science out of the keyboarding hobby,   to go BEYOND simple ownership and materialistic acquisition of trophies.. 

The path towards KEYBOARD zen is only revealed to those who are willing to rethink traditions and minimize their ancestral hoarding.

Hmm I thought this thread said "HHKB Pro 2" in the title...must be some sort of joke though. Can we talk more about the Ergodox?
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 27 December 2013, 01:25:33
The difference between an Egdx and the HHKB rectangle is NOT a matter of preference..

Egdx is fully programmable

It conforms to the shape of ones hand

It conforms to the natural resting angle of ones wrists

It can be modified for any mx switch.. linear, or tactile

If you decide you'd like a different switch, you can easily swap them out without desoldering.

Egdxs' split-design also accomodates people with broad shoulders whose arms are further apart


The HHKB... is derivative, and is quite simply the least common denominator in design, and it performs no better or worse than any other rectangular keyboard..


The only thing that makes it special is like you've said, it's "made in japan"...  If being a weeaboo is all ur after... mission accomplished..

But to those who actually want to extract every ounce of knowledge and science out of the keyboarding hobby,   to go BEYOND simple ownership and materialistic acquisition of trophies.. 

The path towards KEYBOARD zen is only revealed to those who are willing to rethink traditions and minimize their ancestral hoarding.

Hmm I thought this thread said "HHKB Pro 2" in the title...must be some sort of joke though. Can we talk more about the Ergodox?

sure.. pm me if you like..

This thread is about HHKB mixed feelings.. and I am using Egdx as an example as to WHY.. It does not possess any innovative features that would put it much above what the OP already had. (http://a.deviantart.net/avatars/a/b/aboishappyplz.gif?1)
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: 1pq on Fri, 27 December 2013, 01:33:58
The difference between an Egdx and the HHKB rectangle is NOT a matter of preference..

Egdx is fully programmable

It conforms to the shape of ones hand

It conforms to the natural resting angle of ones wrists

It can be modified for any mx switch.. linear, or tactile

If you decide you'd like a different switch, you can easily swap them out without desoldering.

Egdxs' split-design also accomodates people with broad shoulders whose arms are further apart


The HHKB... is derivative, and is quite simply the least common denominator in design, and it performs no better or worse than any other rectangular keyboard..


The only thing that makes it special is like you've said, it's "made in japan"...  If being a weeaboo is all ur after... mission accomplished..

But to those who actually want to extract every ounce of knowledge and science out of the keyboarding hobby,   to go BEYOND simple ownership and materialistic acquisition of trophies.. 

The path towards KEYBOARD zen is only revealed to those who are willing to rethink traditions and minimize their ancestral hoarding.

Hmm I thought this thread said "HHKB Pro 2" in the title...must be some sort of joke though. Can we talk more about the Ergodox?

sure.. pm me if you like..

This thread is about HHKB mixed feelings.. and I am using Egdx as an example as to WHY.. It does not possess any innovative features that would put it much above what the OP already had.
Show Image
(http://a.deviantart.net/avatars/a/b/aboishappyplz.gif?1)


the missed sarcasm... :-\
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 27 December 2013, 01:35:00
The difference between an Egdx and the HHKB rectangle is NOT a matter of preference..

Egdx is fully programmable

It conforms to the shape of ones hand

It conforms to the natural resting angle of ones wrists

It can be modified for any mx switch.. linear, or tactile

If you decide you'd like a different switch, you can easily swap them out without desoldering.

Egdxs' split-design also accomodates people with broad shoulders whose arms are further apart


The HHKB... is derivative, and is quite simply the least common denominator in design, and it performs no better or worse than any other rectangular keyboard..


The only thing that makes it special is like you've said, it's "made in japan"...  If being a weeaboo is all ur after... mission accomplished..

But to those who actually want to extract every ounce of knowledge and science out of the keyboarding hobby,   to go BEYOND simple ownership and materialistic acquisition of trophies.. 

The path towards KEYBOARD zen is only revealed to those who are willing to rethink traditions and minimize their ancestral hoarding.

Hmm I thought this thread said "HHKB Pro 2" in the title...must be some sort of joke though. Can we talk more about the Ergodox?

sure.. pm me if you like..

This thread is about HHKB mixed feelings.. and I am using Egdx as an example as to WHY.. It does not possess any innovative features that would put it much above what the OP already had.
Show Image
(http://a.deviantart.net/avatars/a/b/aboishappyplz.gif?1)


the missed sarcasm... :-\

same to you..
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: Belfong on Fri, 27 December 2013, 01:39:04
TP4, I agree with you that there are some who talk themselves into how great HHKB is because of the price. But now that I read your post on Ergodox and I find that you are overly praising the Ergodox to the point of being a fanboy. Ergodox is also not or everyone. Definitely not for me because I don't touch type ie I don't rest my wrist on the board so ergonomics doesn't work for me. But your post sounds as though that's the ultimate keyboard for everyone which is not true.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: 1pq on Fri, 27 December 2013, 01:42:52
I think this thread needs this as well.

(http://i.imgur.com/g0fdThK.png)
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: kyb on Fri, 27 December 2013, 03:02:05
also not-haha, master-race is a nazi term (really it really actually really is. really)

No it's not. It's a wrong translation by Americans who have absolutely no idea what went on in Europe during WW2.

dude http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_race

Yes. Like I said, a wrong translation. Also: sourcing info from wikipedia, classy lul.

How? I'm from Germany and "master race" is a pretty good translation for "Herrenrasse".
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: kyb on Fri, 27 December 2013, 03:06:49
Quote
Ergodox

My only problem with that thing is that it's not Topre. Which is a show stopper. As nice as the angled layout is ... without Topre it's not worth using. I've got one Egdx lying around and don't use it at all because it feels like I would be typing on broken glass.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: takethree on Fri, 27 December 2013, 03:39:42
Ok. I've received my HHKB Pro 2.

Just my initial impressions of it.

What I'm experiencing so far, you can put me under the "HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings" category lol.

I got mine yesterday and pretty much love everything about it. What do you have mixed feelings about?

The key feel is great but I'm getting tripped constantly by the layout.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: terran5992 on Fri, 27 December 2013, 03:58:50
Ok. I've received my HHKB Pro 2.

Just my initial impressions of it.

What I'm experiencing so far, you can put me under the "HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings" category lol.

I got mine yesterday and pretty much love everything about it. What do you have mixed feelings about?

The key feel is great but I'm getting tripped constantly by the layout.


You will get used to it :)
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: rowdy on Fri, 27 December 2013, 04:33:31
Ok. I've received my HHKB Pro 2.

Just my initial impressions of it.

What I'm experiencing so far, you can put me under the "HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings" category lol.

I got mine yesterday and pretty much love everything about it. What do you have mixed feelings about?

The key feel is great but I'm getting tripped constantly by the layout.


You will get used to it :)


And just as you get used to it, you will, for some reason, have to use a conventional layout keyboard and everytime you try to backspace you will get \\\\\\\

You'll keep turning caps lock on trying to get ctrl characters.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: dragonxx21 on Fri, 27 December 2013, 04:49:32
Still haven't tried the HHKB so I am indifferent.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: atlas3686 on Fri, 27 December 2013, 05:00:56
Ok. I've received my HHKB Pro 2.

Just my initial impressions of it.

What I'm experiencing so far, you can put me under the "HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings" category lol.

I got mine yesterday and pretty much love everything about it. What do you have mixed feelings about?

The key feel is great but I'm getting tripped constantly by the layout.


You will get used to it :)


And just as you get used to it, you will, for some reason, have to use a conventional layout keyboard and everytime you try to backspace you will get \\\\\\\

You'll keep turning caps lock on trying to get ctrl characters.

Answer is to stick a autohotkey script that makes caps control into your Dropbox. So you can quickly run it anywhere :) caps is a entirely useless key anyway.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tuxsavvy on Fri, 27 December 2013, 06:09:05
The difference between an Egdx and the HHKB rectangle is NOT a matter of preference..
If it isn't then you are saying that all HHKB owners prefer HHKB is because of some other reason because of preference? weaboo? brand name? price? Topre? etc?

Egdx is fully programmable
hasu has TMK firmware for HHKB, that doesn't make HHKB more programmable?

It conforms to the shape of ones hand
It (ErgoDox) was designed to conform ergonomics, not exactly portability/minimalism which was what HHKB was after. That is why GeekHack has a separate forum for ergonomics, that is why Lexmark had M15, that is why there are other manufacturers whom have made ergonomic keyboards of sorts. The only reason is because there is a need for those who wants an ergonomic keyboard not because it was portable/minimalistic.

If one wants to compare something more ergonomic, they need to compare against μTron. Not HHKB. Comparing HHKB to ErgoDox is almost like comparing apples and oranges.

It conforms to the natural resting angle of ones wrists

Again ErgoDox has that upper hand due to the fact that it was targeting people who desire ergonomics, not necessarily portability and/or minimalism.

If you want to talk about ergonomic, talk about the likes of alphagrip (http://www.alphagrips.com/), datahand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DataHand), various other chorded keyboard like the BAT keyboard (http://www.answers.com/topic/bat-keyboard), etc. There are many suitable candidates for ErgoDox to compete against with not HHKB. HHKB was never really intended for ergonomics.

It can be modified for any mx switch.. linear, or tactile

It is not like one can't change the rubber domes on the HHKB to make it light, heavier or varied. Sure Cherry MX range is all about customisation and Topre isn't exactly flexible simply because the way it was designed.

If one wants to have the layout of the HHKB but prefer it using Cherry MX format. There is always GH60 (http://ctrlaltgroupbuy.com/buys/geekhack-60) which ended about a month ago which is a bit of a sad thing from Cherry MX perspective because it only existed as a GB option, not that one can simply for instance walk into the shop and pick up a GH60.

When I am referring to GH60 I am referring to a design none other than this which hopefully can refresh one's memory:
(http://ctrlaltgroupbuy.com/uploads/buy_image/image/11/da3a9d7006e6ef8fb0142598633828dd.png)

If you decide you'd like a different switch, you can easily swap them out without desoldering.
You can't easily change that on Topre switches because it was based on a fundamentally different design of the switch. Again nobody said you cannot swap the rubber domes out to make the feel heavier, etc. BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE! you don't even need to desolder as well, only a set of screw drivers and donor rubber domes to swap out Topre switches.

ONCE AGAIN there is things like GH60 for instance if one wants Cherry MX equivalent of HHKB. No?


Egdxs' split-design also accomodates people with broad shoulders whose arms are further apart

Talk about ergonomics again, which is comparing apples and oranges.

The HHKB... is derivative, and is quite simply the least common denominator in design, and it performs no better or worse than any other rectangular keyboard..

I never proclaimed HHKB as being any better or worse than rectangular keyboard. It is an old design that PFU has been peddling for awhile before the likes of ErgoDox came along. If one wants to add more fuel to the fire, comparing apples against with oranges.

ErgoDox (at this current stage) does not come pre-made, it is still a D-I-Y kit. ErgoDox is pretty much more or less like any other GB which involves interests and money pooling before such an idea would become viable.

HHKB is already made manufactured product which one does NOT need to pool money in for an idea. It does not require any soldering work of any sort unless if one wants to make modifications. HHKB unlike ErgoDox can be picked up from stores ready made, and ready to use. Comparing HHKB to ErgoDox is like comparing one's preference to a pre-built car against kit car. EVERYONE HAS THEIR OWN TASTE.. no? do you want to start splitting hairs over preferences with premade stuff versus D-I-Y like you did by pitting HHKB against ErgoDox?

The only thing that makes it special is like you've said, it's "made in japan"...  If being a weeaboo is all ur after... mission accomplished..
Never really after weaboo status, there is a more fundamental reason which if I were to go explain it would be roughly another "wall of text" full of it.

But to those who actually want to extract every ounce of knowledge and science out of the keyboarding hobby,   to go BEYOND simple ownership and materialistic acquisition of trophies.. 

Not everyone wants to pour money into making a perfect keyboard. Not everyone necessarily would share a keyboard hobby like this forum for instance. There are no trophies for materialistic acquisition. The final product is of the product itself.

What I personally am happy is that HHKB is not some vaporware, ErgoDox isn't vaporware as well but ErgoDox STILL cannot be purchased from any chain branded electronic shops. HHKB, sure is heavily surrounded within SE Asia but that does not mean you can't walk into any electronic store in Japan for instance and not see HHKB for sale.

There are plenty of cool projects which never got materialised and remains vaporware. Clearly neither HHKB nor ErgoDox fit into the category of being as such one of them. However HHKB has been around LONGER than ErgoDox.

The path towards KEYBOARD zen is only revealed to those who are willing to rethink traditions and minimize their ancestral hoarding.
Everyone has different approach to what they want in life. It is wrong to impose one ideal method that suits of particularly one or more than a handful of people onto the rest of us. Sure in your ideal world maybe ErgoDox should be the main keyboard that every kid would crave for and every person would buy when they can, not in mine and not in reality.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: osi on Fri, 27 December 2013, 07:04:02
The HHKB has me so torn right now. Can't decide whether I want a black or white one for home
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tuxsavvy on Fri, 27 December 2013, 07:08:00
The HHKB has me so torn right now. Can't decide whether I want a black or white one for home

That may give others a heads up that you should buy both (charcoal gray and white) that is. Then swap the key caps around.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: neunelfer on Fri, 27 December 2013, 07:16:40
Tuxsavvy, what exactly classifies the HHKB as mechanical to you? As far as I am concerned it is not, by the definition used for Cherry switches.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: terran5992 on Fri, 27 December 2013, 07:38:45
Tuxsavvy, what exactly classifies the HHKB as mechanical to you? As far as I am concerned it is not, by the definition used for Cherry switches.

Umm i would say that the sliders make it slightly mechanical
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: neunelfer on Fri, 27 December 2013, 08:03:59
Tuxsavvy, what exactly classifies the HHKB as mechanical to you? As far as I am concerned it is not, by the definition used for Cherry switches.

Umm i would say that the sliders make it slightly mechanical

So having another piece touch the dome makes it mechanical? What about BTC rubber domes (http://deskthority.net/wiki/BTC_dome_with_slider)? Those have sliders.

I would call the HHKB a capacitive keyboard, not a mechanical one.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tuxsavvy on Fri, 27 December 2013, 08:38:01
Tuxsavvy, what exactly classifies the HHKB as mechanical to you? As far as I am concerned it is not, by the definition used for Cherry switches.

Umm i would say that the sliders make it slightly mechanical

So having another piece touch the dome makes it mechanical? What about BTC rubber domes (http://deskthority.net/wiki/BTC_dome_with_slider)? Those have sliders.

I would call the HHKB a capacitive keyboard, not a mechanical one.
Yeah to Cherry switches or other mechanical keyboards Topre switches does not really seem to have much going for the fact that it is a mechanical keyboard. Initially (this was the perception I had about half a year ago) it was because wikipedia partially hinted (on a note of related information for relevance) that HHKB is.

Anyway, I guess the fact that the rubber domes sit over the conical springs and that the entire thing rests on hard PCB. It (the feeling) is miles different from typing on rubber dome over membrane keyboard. As in there is not much of that "mushy" feeling. Also the fact that it is not the rubber domes that does much of the actuation, I believe personally it is the conical springs that shortens the connection (hence input registration). Rubber domes maybe conductive (when they are naturally not) but without conical springs I don't think Topre switch would function as it normally would just as removing the springs from Cherry MX for instance loses the rebounce and may force the keyboard controller to spam on the computer that the key has been depressed. Either that and/or Cherry MX without springs would not function normally.

I don't know much of Cherry MX lines (let alone having a Cherry MX board for that matter) though I am sure just as the springs on the Topre plays a role in (mainly I personally believe) actuation it also does a bit of "rebounce" even though it is mainly the rubber dome doing the bulk of the work.

I had a look at that BTC dome with slider wiki you linked but there are lacking pieces of information about the said "switch". Such as the fact that it seems like it is still rubber domes over membrane with a slider to act as a medium in between. One of the things that I sort of loathe about membrane sheets is when it comes to cleaning the keyboard (keycaps and keyboard case out). The amount of screws on the back of the old APC Clicker F-21 that I had to take off and any screws that are not firmly screwed it would give weird effect on the keyboard usage. That and the fact that it was a real pain to clean APC membrane with all those leaf springs, spring, and the slider that needs to be taken out. Who knows if they were weighted or anything like that? the whole process for me to just refurbish almost two decades old keyboard took me a good four to five hours to clean it.

Old membrane boards have lots of screws on the back of board to prevent any uneven feeling, A proper PCB would have seen the lesser need to fuss over trivial maintanence issue as well as the fact that the feeling are more firm than that of an improperly screwed in membrane keyboard. I am sure more modern membrane keyboards may not be as daunting but cleaning the keyboard nicely inside out can still be a pain compared to dealing with a board that has proper PCB right across the entire size of the keyboard.

There are some things that cannot simply be explained with words but the feeling of typing on a more firmer board in which other mechanical keyboards are based on (with PCB as found on Cherry MX, Buckling spring, Hall effect, Alps, etc) and the refurbishing process matters greatly in my opinion. Hence this is one of the reasons I personally believe Topre is still somewhat mechanical. See it how you like to define Topre as but to me I would say it is more mechanical than my APC Clicker F-21 (which is APC membrane).
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: neunelfer on Fri, 27 December 2013, 09:10:03
As far as I know, the spring in Topre switches only used to provide the change in capacitance, which changes as the spring is depressed. I believe someone experimented by removing the spring - the switch felt exactly the same but did not register.

I guess what it really comes down to is that the term mechanical keyboard is kind of loosely defined.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: takethree on Fri, 27 December 2013, 09:12:27
Ok. I've received my HHKB Pro 2.

Just my initial impressions of it.

What I'm experiencing so far, you can put me under the "HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings" category lol.

I got mine yesterday and pretty much love everything about it. What do you have mixed feelings about?

The key feel is great but I'm getting tripped constantly by the layout.


You will get used to it :)


And just as you get used to it, you will, for some reason, have to use a conventional layout keyboard and everytime you try to backspace you will get \\\\\\\

You'll keep turning caps lock on trying to get ctrl characters.

Preach on brother....the more I get used to the HHKB, the more rubbish I become on the other more standard layout keyboards. I'm forcing myself to live with the HHKB to get myself used to the layout. I don't know if that is a good thing or not. I think I'm starting to get the groove of the HHKB.  :p

The typing experience is incredble but that LAYOUT!  :eek:
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 27 December 2013, 11:56:21
The difference between an Egdx and the HHKB rectangle is NOT a matter of preference..
If it isn't then you are saying that all HHKB owners prefer HHKB is because of some other reason because of preference? weaboo? brand name? price? Topre? etc?

Egdx is fully programmable
hasu has TMK firmware for HHKB, that doesn't make HHKB more programmable?

It conforms to the shape of ones hand
It (ErgoDox) was designed to conform ergonomics, not exactly portability/minimalism which was what HHKB was after. That is why GeekHack has a separate forum for ergonomics, that is why Lexmark had M15, that is why there are other manufacturers whom have made ergonomic keyboards of sorts. The only reason is because there is a need for those who wants an ergonomic keyboard not because it was portable/minimalistic.

If one wants to compare something more ergonomic, they need to compare against μTron. Not HHKB. Comparing HHKB to ErgoDox is almost like comparing apples and oranges.

It conforms to the natural resting angle of ones wrists

Again ErgoDox has that upper hand due to the fact that it was targeting people who desire ergonomics, not necessarily portability and/or minimalism.

If you want to talk about ergonomic, talk about the likes of alphagrip (http://www.alphagrips.com/), datahand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DataHand), various other chorded keyboard like the BAT keyboard (http://www.answers.com/topic/bat-keyboard), etc. There are many suitable candidates for ErgoDox to compete against with not HHKB. HHKB was never really intended for ergonomics.

It can be modified for any mx switch.. linear, or tactile

It is not like one can't change the rubber domes on the HHKB to make it light, heavier or varied. Sure Cherry MX range is all about customisation and Topre isn't exactly flexible simply because the way it was designed.

If one wants to have the layout of the HHKB but prefer it using Cherry MX format. There is always GH60 (http://ctrlaltgroupbuy.com/buys/geekhack-60) which ended about a month ago which is a bit of a sad thing from Cherry MX perspective because it only existed as a GB option, not that one can simply for instance walk into the shop and pick up a GH60.

When I am referring to GH60 I am referring to a design none other than this which hopefully can refresh one's memory:
Show Image
(http://ctrlaltgroupbuy.com/uploads/buy_image/image/11/da3a9d7006e6ef8fb0142598633828dd.png)


If you decide you'd like a different switch, you can easily swap them out without desoldering.
You can't easily change that on Topre switches because it was based on a fundamentally different design of the switch. Again nobody said you cannot swap the rubber domes out to make the feel heavier, etc. BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE! you don't even need to desolder as well, only a set of screw drivers and donor rubber domes to swap out Topre switches.

ONCE AGAIN there is things like GH60 for instance if one wants Cherry MX equivalent of HHKB. No?


Egdxs' split-design also accomodates people with broad shoulders whose arms are further apart

Talk about ergonomics again, which is comparing apples and oranges.

The HHKB... is derivative, and is quite simply the least common denominator in design, and it performs no better or worse than any other rectangular keyboard..

I never proclaimed HHKB as being any better or worse than rectangular keyboard. It is an old design that PFU has been peddling for awhile before the likes of ErgoDox came along. If one wants to add more fuel to the fire, comparing apples against with oranges.

ErgoDox (at this current stage) does not come pre-made, it is still a D-I-Y kit. ErgoDox is pretty much more or less like any other GB which involves interests and money pooling before such an idea would become viable.

HHKB is already made manufactured product which one does NOT need to pool money in for an idea. It does not require any soldering work of any sort unless if one wants to make modifications. HHKB unlike ErgoDox can be picked up from stores ready made, and ready to use. Comparing HHKB to ErgoDox is like comparing one's preference to a pre-built car against kit car. EVERYONE HAS THEIR OWN TASTE.. no? do you want to start splitting hairs over preferences with premade stuff versus D-I-Y like you did by pitting HHKB against ErgoDox?

The only thing that makes it special is like you've said, it's "made in japan"...  If being a weeaboo is all ur after... mission accomplished..
Never really after weaboo status, there is a more fundamental reason which if I were to go explain it would be roughly another "wall of text" full of it.

But to those who actually want to extract every ounce of knowledge and science out of the keyboarding hobby,   to go BEYOND simple ownership and materialistic acquisition of trophies.. 

Not everyone wants to pour money into making a perfect keyboard. Not everyone necessarily would share a keyboard hobby like this forum for instance. There are no trophies for materialistic acquisition. The final product is of the product itself.

What I personally am happy is that HHKB is not some vaporware, ErgoDox isn't vaporware as well but ErgoDox STILL cannot be purchased from any chain branded electronic shops. HHKB, sure is heavily surrounded within SE Asia but that does not mean you can't walk into any electronic store in Japan for instance and not see HHKB for sale.

There are plenty of cool projects which never got materialised and remains vaporware. Clearly neither HHKB nor ErgoDox fit into the category of being as such one of them. However HHKB has been around LONGER than ErgoDox.

The path towards KEYBOARD zen is only revealed to those who are willing to rethink traditions and minimize their ancestral hoarding.
Everyone has different approach to what they want in life. It is wrong to impose one ideal method that suits of particularly one or more than a handful of people onto the rest of us. Sure in your ideal world maybe ErgoDox should be the main keyboard that every kid would crave for and every person would buy when they can, not in mine and not in reality.

[/size]




Portability and minimalism...

NOT attributes to be considered...

It is inconvenient to carry an "extra" keyboard around...  then everytime you use it, you gotta PLUG IT IN... and when you leave,, you gotta do the whole shtick over again...

MOST people who claim to do this, STOP after the first few times... it's too much commitment for virtually no gain..


The  HHKB is like women wearing uncomfortable shoes... Except instead of silly women, you have silly n00b weeaboos...


Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tuxsavvy on Fri, 27 December 2013, 12:46:25
As far as I know, the spring in Topre switches only used to provide the change in capacitance, which changes as the spring is depressed. I believe someone experimented by removing the spring - the switch felt exactly the same but did not register.

I guess what it really comes down to is that the term mechanical keyboard is kind of loosely defined.

As said, the springs do very little in providing much of the rebounce, most of the time when the keys rebounce on Topre it is mostly the rubber domes doing the work. That said, it does not imply the springs are useless in the case of Topre, even if a conical spring sits in between but does not help the rubber dome it would still reform and maintain the original structure (conical spring that is).

I am not a connoisseur on Topre or mechanical keyboard in general. What I do understand is that there are lots of people that takes different sides of the same switch to talk about whether or not if Topre is mechanical or should be deemed as such or not. To me Topre would still seem partly mechanical (if not fully mechanical that is). Again also to me is that most mechanical switches share something in common. That they are vastly placed/mounted on PCB. APC membranes for instance are an exception but regardless in the very least Topre should still be seen as partly mechanical if one still thinks Topre is not fully mechanical.

There are also people who I am sure would like to go as far back as the typewriters to have the most mechanical sort of keyboards whereby it predates Hall effect switches. Some of them would probably call them as true mechanical keys as opposed to the more modern form of electro mechanical keyboards that it has been evolved to in today's realm.

Portability and minimalism...

NOT attributes to be considered...

It is inconvenient to carry an "extra" keyboard around...  then everytime you use it, you gotta PLUG IT IN... and when you leave,, you gotta do the whole shtick over again...

MOST people who claim to do this, STOP after the first few times... it's too much commitment for virtually no gain..


The  HHKB is like women wearing uncomfortable shoes... Except instead of silly women, you have silly n00b weeaboos...




So what is 60% keyboard in your definition? if they are not portable or minimalist? to go as far as declaring 60% boards are some "old rectangular shaped keyboard with lesser keys" would be just as bad as saying ErgoDox is just another fancy flair of redefining ergonomic keyboards at the expense of having it made exclusively available to a set of diehard DIY "keyboard elitists" who believe this (ErgoDox) creation rules all keyboards or even any ergonomic keyboard. If you want to phrase it like how you are trying to declare HHKB or 60% is inferior to ErgoDox then that will be how I will declare ErgoDox fans such as yourself whom cannot accept other people's preferences on 60% boards or HHKB for that matter.

As for the point on those whom you say stop after a few times when it comes to switching keyboards, sure that maybe true but that does not mean that HHKB was only designed to be carried around constantly. This is an attribute of human's desire not of the keyboard's design which makes humans not wanting to move around the keyboard. On the contrary, who do you think would switch Cherry MX switches often enough on their ErgoDox? going from whatever they started with to keep switching Cherry MX combinations until they are happy with their layout? or do you think that owners of ErgoDox would be unwilling to change Cherry MX switches after a few times as the result of annoyance? Do you seriously think that is the fault of the ErgoDox just as those who does not unplug and plug their HHKB in to various devices to be the fault of HHKB?

Oh wow, such rage on the last line. Do you want a cookie? did someone piss on your breakfast or something? or is it that you can't stop lashing out your rage on HHKB threads where possible? How would you like it if I were to do the same thing on every thread about ErgoDox? "ErgoDox is like all these hardcore DIY keyboard elitists thinking they are on top of the world smoking on I don't know what but you guess".

If you seriously think HHKB was some "perfect" solution to everything. Then you seriously have a deluded mind. The world is about taste, not convoluted and biased theories between mere different keyboard layouts and structures built for different purposes in mind. My posts on this thread was to not compare ErgoDox against HHKB, let me get that message clear and straight to you. Not until you decided to pit HHKB (or 60%) against this "perfect" ErgoDox of yours.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: rowdy on Fri, 27 December 2013, 19:23:14
Portability and minimalism...

NOT attributes to be considered...

It is inconvenient to carry an "extra" keyboard around...  then everytime you use it, you gotta PLUG IT IN... and when you leave,, you gotta do the whole shtick over again...

MOST people who claim to do this, STOP after the first few times... it's too much commitment for virtually no gain..

The  HHKB is like women wearing uncomfortable shoes... Except instead of silly women, you have silly n00b weeaboos...

Unless it is not secure to leave a keyboard somewhere overnight.  E.g. at some work places an expensive keyboard might go missing.


When I am referring to GH60 I am referring to a design none other than this which hopefully can refresh one's memory:

Show Image
(http://ctrlaltgroupbuy.com/uploads/buy_image/image/11/da3a9d7006e6ef8fb0142598633828dd.png)


I'd love to see this set on my HHKB!
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: terran5992 on Fri, 27 December 2013, 20:07:34
Portability and minimalism...

NOT attributes to be considered...

It is inconvenient to carry an "extra" keyboard around...  then everytime you use it, you gotta PLUG IT IN... and when you leave,, you gotta do the whole shtick over again...

MOST people who claim to do this, STOP after the first few times... it's too much commitment for virtually no gain..

The  HHKB is like women wearing uncomfortable shoes... Except instead of silly women, you have silly n00b weeaboos...

Unless it is not secure to leave a keyboard somewhere overnight.  E.g. at some work places an expensive keyboard might go missing.


When I am referring to GH60 I am referring to a design none other than this which hopefully can refresh one's memory:

Show Image
(http://ctrlaltgroupbuy.com/uploads/buy_image/image/11/da3a9d7006e6ef8fb0142598633828dd.png)


I'd love to see this set on my HHKB!

Id love to see new caps for HHKB
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: Beca on Mon, 30 December 2013, 16:20:00
So, I just received the HHKB Pro 2 in the mail, and not that thrilled with it so far. The topre switches definitely are unique compared to cherry mx switches, but it feels too much like a rubberdome to me. I've been using it for about an hour so far total, but I don't know if more time will make it feel that much better.

I think...the hype got to me and I set my expectations way too high. :( I'm just a cherry person.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: riotonthebay on Mon, 30 December 2013, 16:21:30
So, I just received the HHKB Pro 2 in the mail, and not that thrilled with it so far. The topre switches definitely are unique compared to cherry mx switches, but it feels too much like a rubberdome to me. I've been using it for about an hour so far total, but I don't know if more time will make it feel that much better.

I think...the hype got to me and I set my expectations way too high. :( I'm just a cherry person.

Well, the good news is that you can easily make your money back my reselling it :D. Maybe you'll lose on the cost of shipping, but I'd probably pay $15 to play with an HHKB for a day…
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 30 December 2013, 16:26:18
So, I just received the HHKB Pro 2 in the mail, and not that thrilled with it so far. The topre switches definitely are unique compared to cherry mx switches, but it feels too much like a rubberdome to me. I've been using it for about an hour so far total, but I don't know if more time will make it feel that much better.

I think...the hype got to me and I set my expectations way too high. :( I'm just a cherry person.

Well, the good news is that you can easily make your money back my reselling it :D. Maybe you'll lose on the cost of shipping, but I'd probably pay $15 to play with an HHKB for a day…

Yea I know exactly what Beca is feeling.. it's not a huge problem.. perhaps it will even grow on you...  just be weary that it may be the "need" to justify the cost of the product which ultimately convert you, rather than the product itself..

Whatever happens in the end though... as long as YOU feel happy about it.. $300 isn't really that much money one way or the other..  so.. sigh..  I guess even with all my advice and comparison..  if it's happiness we're after.. then so be it..

Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: 1pq on Mon, 30 December 2013, 16:38:11
So, I just received the HHKB Pro 2 in the mail, and not that thrilled with it so far. The topre switches definitely are unique compared to cherry mx switches, but it feels too much like a rubberdome to me. I've been using it for about an hour so far total, but I don't know if more time will make it feel that much better.

I think...the hype got to me and I set my expectations way too high. :( I'm just a cherry person.

I felt exactly the same way when I got my FC660C. Cherry and topre boards feel incredibly different, and honestly, I much preferred my mx blue board. However, I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything, so I typed on topre for a while. It felt heavier than my blues, and I detested it for gaming. However, when writing long papers for school, it was perfect. I didn't try to type my fastest speed--I tried to enjoy every keypress, being methodical in my typing--sort of like writing by hand. This is the reason I love topres for writing: it's not fast and acute like MX, but once you get into a slower pattern, you can start to enjoy that satisfying thock and buttery smoothness...it really feels incredible! Although tp4 might be convinced that it's just my subconscious trying to justify the money I spent on the board, I know he's wrong  :))
Anyway, it took about two months from getting the board to enjoying typing on it for me. Most topre users hate their purchases at least for a week, usually more. So I wouldn't worry about it now: you will probably end up appreciating it in the future, but if you don't, you can always sell it in the classifieds here for almost as much as what you paid for it  ;)
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: Beca on Mon, 30 December 2013, 16:42:16
So, I just received the HHKB Pro 2 in the mail, and not that thrilled with it so far. The topre switches definitely are unique compared to cherry mx switches, but it feels too much like a rubberdome to me. I've been using it for about an hour so far total, but I don't know if more time will make it feel that much better.

I think...the hype got to me and I set my expectations way too high. :( I'm just a cherry person.

Well, the good news is that you can easily make your money back my reselling it :D. Maybe you'll lose on the cost of shipping, but I'd probably pay $15 to play with an HHKB for a day…

Yea I know exactly what Beca is feeling.. it's not a huge problem.. perhaps it will even grow on you...  just be weary that it may be the "need" to justify the cost of the product which ultimately convert you, rather than the product itself..

Whatever happens in the end though... as long as YOU feel happy about it.. $300 isn't really that much money one way or the other..  so.. sigh..  I guess even with all my advice and comparison..  if it's happiness we're after.. then so be it..

yeah, guess i'll just type on it for a bit, then sell if it I still don't feel that satisfied. it's my most expensive keyboard purchase to date as well which doesn't help haha. do you have an HHKB?

@riotonthebay: i love the resale values on keyboards, i don't think $15 is too bad for getting to try out a switch at all. i'll probably let this go for $200 shipped if i end up still not liking it.

@1pq: i've read that a lot, but i''m pretty impatient when it comes to keyboards  :eek:; I honestly kind of like it, but i am  weighing it against how much i paid for the keyboard itself. the keyboard is so cute and tiny but i think that i would prefer a realforce cause i kind of miss my arrow keys, haha.

i would try this out on league, but it's down right now :(
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 30 December 2013, 16:44:27
So, I just received the HHKB Pro 2 in the mail, and not that thrilled with it so far. The topre switches definitely are unique compared to cherry mx switches, but it feels too much like a rubberdome to me. I've been using it for about an hour so far total, but I don't know if more time will make it feel that much better.

I think...the hype got to me and I set my expectations way too high. :( I'm just a cherry person.

Well, the good news is that you can easily make your money back my reselling it :D. Maybe you'll lose on the cost of shipping, but I'd probably pay $15 to play with an HHKB for a day…

Yea I know exactly what Beca is feeling.. it's not a huge problem.. perhaps it will even grow on you...  just be weary that it may be the "need" to justify the cost of the product which ultimately convert you, rather than the product itself..

Whatever happens in the end though... as long as YOU feel happy about it.. $300 isn't really that much money one way or the other..  so.. sigh..  I guess even with all my advice and comparison..  if it's happiness we're after.. then so be it..

yeah, guess i'll just type on it for a bit, then sell if it I still don't feel that satisfied. it's my most expensive keyboard purchase to date as well which doesn't help haha. do you have an HHKB?

@riotonthebay: i love the resale values on keyboards, i don't think $15 is too bad for getting to try out a switch at all. i'll probably let this go for $200 shipped if i end up still not liking it.

@1pq: i've read that a lot, but i''m pretty impatient when it comes to keyboards  :eek:; I honestly kind of like it, but i am  weighing it against how much i paid for the keyboard itself. the keyboard is so cute and tiny but i think that i would prefer a realforce cause i kind of miss my arrow keys, haha.

i would try this out on league, but it's down right now :(

I never had an hhkb, I've had the poker and the 87u, that was when I first became highly critical of the Topre fanboi crowd... it really wasn't that i lost money on the purchase.. 

It was cuz those fanbois let me down....
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: 1pq on Mon, 30 December 2013, 16:47:13
@1pq: i've read that a lot, but i''m pretty impatient when it comes to keyboards  :eek:; I honestly kind of like it, but i am  weighing it against how much i paid for the keyboard itself. the keyboard is so cute and tiny but i think that i would prefer a realforce cause i kind of miss my arrow keys, haha.

i would try this out on league, but it's down right now :(

Don't get your hopes up about it for league. Gaming on topre switches (IMO) is definitely sub-par.
It really depends on what things you're going to be doing. If you do a lot of coding/gaming, where quick, accurate key presses are common, then you may not enjoy topre. If you're a writer, or do a lot of writing (not code, but it could be emails, GH posts, you name it) I find topre to be the best. Personally, I like to bottom out fairly hard on topre (for the thock). Bottoming out too softly is less satisfying. If you try bottoming out hard, you might befriend the magically thock more quickly...  ;D
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: 1pq on Mon, 30 December 2013, 16:48:24
I never had an hhkb, I've had the poker and the 87u, that was when I first became highly critical of the Topre fanboi crowd... it really wasn't that i lost money on the purchase.. 

It was cuz those fanbois let me down....

This is pretty funny considering how much you criticize the HHKB
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: Beca on Mon, 30 December 2013, 16:55:31
@1pq: i've read that a lot, but i''m pretty impatient when it comes to keyboards  :eek:; I honestly kind of like it, but i am  weighing it against how much i paid for the keyboard itself. the keyboard is so cute and tiny but i think that i would prefer a realforce cause i kind of miss my arrow keys, haha.

i would try this out on league, but it's down right now :(

Don't get your hopes up about it for league. Gaming on topre switches (IMO) is definitely sub-par.
It really depends on what things you're going to be doing. If you do a lot of coding/gaming, where quick, accurate key presses are common, then you may not enjoy topre. If you're a writer, or do a lot of writing (not code, but it could be emails, GH posts, you name it) I find topre to be the best. Personally, I like to bottom out fairly hard on topre (for the thock). Bottoming out too softly is less satisfying. If you try bottoming out hard, you might befriend the magically thock more quickly...  ;D
People said blue switches weren't that great for gaming either but they were fine for me! I'm not really the person to mash on a button consistently though.

honestly, i'm just underwhelmed with the switches so far. I think i'm just a clack kind of person rather than a thock one, haha.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 30 December 2013, 16:57:59
I never had an hhkb, I've had the poker and the 87u, that was when I first became highly critical of the Topre fanboi crowd... it really wasn't that i lost money on the purchase.. 

It was cuz those fanbois let me down....

This is pretty funny considering how much you criticize the HHKB

You misunderstand I criticize the topre fanbois.. general rectangular shape boards, and staggered..

If ANY board/ fans fit into those categories..  I am your enemy.(http://a.deviantart.net/avatars/k/y/kyleoniplz.gif?1)

also remember, I am open to the fact that sometimes,, a rectangle is all you need...  but when the fanboi push THEIR rectangle onto other people WITHOUT good reasons other than their emotional attachment...

I will be there for the block...
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: 1pq on Mon, 30 December 2013, 16:59:56
@1pq: i've read that a lot, but i''m pretty impatient when it comes to keyboards  :eek:; I honestly kind of like it, but i am  weighing it against how much i paid for the keyboard itself. the keyboard is so cute and tiny but i think that i would prefer a realforce cause i kind of miss my arrow keys, haha.

i would try this out on league, but it's down right now :(

Don't get your hopes up about it for league. Gaming on topre switches (IMO) is definitely sub-par.
It really depends on what things you're going to be doing. If you do a lot of coding/gaming, where quick, accurate key presses are common, then you may not enjoy topre. If you're a writer, or do a lot of writing (not code, but it could be emails, GH posts, you name it) I find topre to be the best. Personally, I like to bottom out fairly hard on topre (for the thock). Bottoming out too softly is less satisfying. If you try bottoming out hard, you might befriend the magically thock more quickly...  ;D
People said blue switches weren't that great for gaming either but they were fine for me! I'm not really the person to mash on a button consistently though.

honestly, i'm just underwhelmed with the switches so far. I think i'm just a clack kind of person rather than a thock one, haha.

Whatever floats your boat--all I'm saying is to make sure you sufficiently test 'em out before you forgo topre forever. Typing on them now, I enjoy it soooo much more than that first day/week/month.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: Beca on Mon, 30 December 2013, 17:01:25
@1pq: i've read that a lot, but i''m pretty impatient when it comes to keyboards  :eek:; I honestly kind of like it, but i am  weighing it against how much i paid for the keyboard itself. the keyboard is so cute and tiny but i think that i would prefer a realforce cause i kind of miss my arrow keys, haha.

i would try this out on league, but it's down right now :(

Don't get your hopes up about it for league. Gaming on topre switches (IMO) is definitely sub-par.
It really depends on what things you're going to be doing. If you do a lot of coding/gaming, where quick, accurate key presses are common, then you may not enjoy topre. If you're a writer, or do a lot of writing (not code, but it could be emails, GH posts, you name it) I find topre to be the best. Personally, I like to bottom out fairly hard on topre (for the thock). Bottoming out too softly is less satisfying. If you try bottoming out hard, you might befriend the magically thock more quickly...  ;D
People said blue switches weren't that great for gaming either but they were fine for me! I'm not really the person to mash on a button consistently though.

honestly, i'm just underwhelmed with the switches so far. I think i'm just a clack kind of person rather than a thock one, haha.

Whatever floats your boat--all I'm saying is to make sure you sufficiently test 'em out before you forgo topre forever. Typing on them now, I enjoy it soooo much more than that first day/week/month.
for sure, thanks for the advice!
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 30 December 2013, 17:05:11
@1pq: i've read that a lot, but i''m pretty impatient when it comes to keyboards  :eek:; I honestly kind of like it, but i am  weighing it against how much i paid for the keyboard itself. the keyboard is so cute and tiny but i think that i would prefer a realforce cause i kind of miss my arrow keys, haha.

i would try this out on league, but it's down right now :(

Don't get your hopes up about it for league. Gaming on topre switches (IMO) is definitely sub-par.
It really depends on what things you're going to be doing. If you do a lot of coding/gaming, where quick, accurate key presses are common, then you may not enjoy topre. If you're a writer, or do a lot of writing (not code, but it could be emails, GH posts, you name it) I find topre to be the best. Personally, I like to bottom out fairly hard on topre (for the thock). Bottoming out too softly is less satisfying. If you try bottoming out hard, you might befriend the magically thock more quickly...  ;D
People said blue switches weren't that great for gaming either but they were fine for me! I'm not really the person to mash on a button consistently though.

honestly, i'm just underwhelmed with the switches so far. I think i'm just a clack kind of person rather than a thock one, haha.

Whatever floats your boat--all I'm saying is to make sure you sufficiently test 'em out before you forgo topre forever. Typing on them now, I enjoy it soooo much more than that first day/week/month.

Topre Fanboi- where fantasy stabs reality to death.

(http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons/tuzki-bunnys/tuzki-bunny-emoticon-027.gif)
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: 1pq on Mon, 30 December 2013, 17:06:51
You misunderstand I criticize the topre fanbois.. general rectangular shape boards, and staggered..

From your countless posts on topre threads, I think most people here already understand or through their searching will come to understand your opinion. It's a very fine opinion. There's nothing wrong with not liking topre/staggered boards. I just wish that you could post all of your love for the ergodox on ergodox threads, instead of derailing every topre thread on this forum with a dogmatic viewpoint that we've all heard from you. That doesn't help anybody.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 30 December 2013, 17:08:27
You misunderstand I criticize the topre fanbois.. general rectangular shape boards, and staggered..

From your countless posts on topre threads, I think most people here already understand or through their searching will come to understand your opinion. It's a very fine opinion. There's nothing wrong with not liking topre/staggered boards. I just wish that you could post all of your love for the ergodox on ergodox threads, instead of derailing every topre thread on this forum with a dogmatic viewpoint that we've all heard from you. That doesn't help anybody.

Not true... my insurrection is exactly what keeps people THINKING... and not falling for fanboism in the first place.

(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/044.gif)
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 30 December 2013, 17:17:18
This thread has been officially taken over by tp4.
tp4 - 1
thread - 0

/thread
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: MJ45 on Wed, 01 January 2014, 19:33:04
You misunderstand I criticize the topre fanbois.. general rectangular shape boards, and staggered..

From your countless posts on topre threads, I think most people here already understand or through their searching will come to understand your opinion. It's a very fine opinion. There's nothing wrong with not liking topre/staggered boards. I just wish that you could post all of your love for the ergodox on ergodox threads, instead of derailing every topre thread on this forum with a dogmatic viewpoint that we've all heard from you. That doesn't help anybody.

Not true... my insurrection is exactly what keeps people THINKING... and not falling for fanboism in the first place.

Show Image
(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/044.gif)

I guess you must be a "Ergo Fanbois" with your own fantasy ideals but for me I'm perfectly happy with my rectangular and staggered Topre world.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: 1pq on Wed, 01 January 2014, 19:35:56
I wouldn't try arguing with the ergogrinch -- it's pointless and one sided
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: Belfong on Wed, 01 January 2014, 19:42:10
I was underwhelmed with my HHKB 2 when I first got it. But I make it a point to try it out more so I took it to work and typed on it, almost 8 hours a day for about a month. And I must say the fondness grow on me. I love the thock sound and every time I am back home and typing on the MX Clear or Matias Alps, I often find myself thinking of the HHKB. It does grow on you.

If someone asked me about it, I wouldn't say it is the best keyboard ever - it's just different and if you love keyboards, you just gotta try it for once and find out if it is something you will like, or not.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 01 January 2014, 19:51:17
You misunderstand I criticize the topre fanbois.. general rectangular shape boards, and staggered..

From your countless posts on topre threads, I think most people here already understand or through their searching will come to understand your opinion. It's a very fine opinion. There's nothing wrong with not liking topre/staggered boards. I just wish that you could post all of your love for the ergodox on ergodox threads, instead of derailing every topre thread on this forum with a dogmatic viewpoint that we've all heard from you. That doesn't help anybody.

Not true... my insurrection is exactly what keeps people THINKING... and not falling for fanboism in the first place.

Show Image
(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/044.gif)

I guess you must be a "Ergo Fanbois" with your own fantasy ideals but for me I'm perfectly happy with my rectangular and staggered Topre world.

Being Ergonomically inclined is to be a fan of LIFE itself..

Being a Rectangular-staggered enthusiast, is to awash oneself in nostalgia; those who succumb cease to move forward.

It's OK to enjoy and recognize all that went right with the rectangle... 

HOWEVER,, when the discussion is on the subject of CHOICE...   there is only one direction of which is UP.

THAT direction points squarely towards the path of the Edox.(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/beautifu2.gif)
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: Polymer on Wed, 01 January 2014, 19:53:47
People said blue switches weren't that great for gaming either but they were fine for me! I'm not really the person to mash on a button consistently though.

honestly, i'm just underwhelmed with the switches so far. I think i'm just a clack kind of person rather than a thock one, haha.

You've probably read that you should keep it for a month or so before giving up on it...

A lot of people first get Topre and think, wtf?  This isn't much different from my normal RD keyboard..it sucks.  Some people will sell it right away and be done w/ Topre forever.  Most people that have actually given it more time, will start to appreciate it more and more...Some won't and that's fair enough..not all switches are for all people. 

It won't make a difference if you sell it now or 3 weeks from now...definitely give it a fair go...switch back and forth between cherry and topre...If you still don't like it at least you'll know you've given it a chance. 
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tuxsavvy on Wed, 01 January 2014, 20:10:15
It is pointless to argue tp4tissue with even just logic. There is always alphagrip which tp4tissue would probably care less. Even chorded keyboards. Yeah sure, rectangular boards are dated and you (tp4tissue) are just grilling Topre simply because of the fact that they only came out in rectangular shapes. If there is ergonomic keyboard with Topre such as μTron you would dismiss it as ridiculously dated rectangular shape.

Looking closely at ErgoDox you can clearly see it still has resemblance to rectangular designs. It is not based off some completely different shape.

Even on this thread: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45854.msg1175577#msg1175577 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45854.msg1175577#msg1175577) it is blatently clear to see how much you loathe HHKB/Topre in general. Forget it tp4tissue, everyone can clearly see you are just a ErgoDox elitist even though you try to maintain your lopsided sense of "unbiasness". Maybe a new change to a title for you would be appropriate like how HHKB fans are named as such. This was somewhat a neutral thread before it went out of hand and now just another one of your smiting for HHKB hate and extremely biased ErgoDox fandom.

Anyone with a pair of eyes and brain can see what you are trying to imply, there is no need to hide your hatred. I have no qualms with ErgoDox in general but to just see someone rampaging on ErgoDox like as if every other keyboards (_minus_ alpha grip, _minus_ μTron, _minus_ chorded keyboards) like you is evident to see who is extremely biased. Plenty of other threads with keyboard discussions that has rectangular shapes such as old IBM Model M but you had to specifically point and pick out your hatred on Topre and HHKB being as such.

I am done, done arguing with ErgoDox elitist who cannot accept the taste of other people's and to smite ErgoDox like as if he himself is a bible preacher. Yes, call me old school, whatever. I actually don't mind the designs of the HHKB even though it is dated, and looks crap, etc. This world is all about taste, not "my ErgoDox is years ahead of your dinosaur design and that I have no grudges on Topre".
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: 1pq on Wed, 01 January 2014, 20:23:00
It is pointless to argue tp4tissue with even just logic. There is always alphagrip which tp4tissue would probably care less. Even chorded keyboards. Yeah sure, rectangular boards are dated and you (tp4tissue) are just grilling Topre simply because of the fact that they only came out in rectangular shapes. If there is ergonomic keyboard with Topre such as μTron you would dismiss it as ridiculously dated rectangular shape.

Looking closely at ErgoDox you can clearly see it still has resemblance to rectangular designs. It is not based off some completely different shape.

Even on this thread: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45854.msg1175577#msg1175577 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45854.msg1175577#msg1175577) it is blatently clear to see how much you loathe HHKB/Topre in general. Forget it tp4tissue, everyone can clearly see you are just a ErgoDox elitist even though you try to maintain your lopsided sense of "unbiasness". Maybe a new change to a title for you would be appropriate like how HHKB fans are named as such. This was somewhat a neutral thread before it went out of hand and now just another one of your smiting for HHKB hate and extremely biased ErgoDox fandom.

Anyone with a pair of eyes and brain can see what you are trying to imply, there is no need to hide your hatred. I have no qualms with ErgoDox in general but to just see someone rampaging on ErgoDox like as if every other keyboards (_minus_ alpha grip, _minus_ μTron, _minus_ chorded keyboards) like you is evident to see who is extremely biased. Plenty of other threads with keyboard discussions that has rectangular shapes such as old IBM Model M but you had to specifically point and pick out your hatred on Topre and HHKB being as such.

I am done, done arguing with ErgoDox elitist who cannot accept the taste of other people's and to smite ErgoDox like as if he himself was preaching bible.

Dat thread -- reading tp's "yo mama" post -- LMFAO!
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: Polymer on Wed, 01 January 2014, 20:24:36
At least he has stopped w/ the Topre bashing.  It is probably because his argument used to be because of how it was priced (apparently you had to like it if you paid a lot for it) but with more Topre fans emerging because of the lower cost Topre keyboards (660c specifically) that is no longer a valid argument.

I think the ergodox is a great idea...but at the same time the reasons why I'm not getting it: 

1.  No Topre switches.  Since I'd only get an ergodox for a work type machine where I use Topre and not Cherry, this would suck.
2.  I have no issues w/ the current layout of keyboards.  Thankfully I don't have any issues w/ my hands/fingers/wrists yet so I see no reason to change when I still have to deal w/ normal layouts regardless of having an ergodox at home.

I do recognize the better layout..the better ergonomics for your hands...the position of a lot of keys in the current standard layout is not great..it is just what we have..

Same reason why a lot don't switch to DVORAK or something similar..The layout is better but since you still have to live in a QWERTY world, you have to switch back and forth...and if you're happy w/ your speed on QWERTY, there just isn't a reason to switch...
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tuxsavvy on Wed, 01 January 2014, 21:07:08
Dat thread -- reading tp's "yo mama" post -- LMFAO!

That one seems to be pretty well controlled given the fact there was probably little grounds for tp4tissue to attack on.

At least he has stopped w/ the Topre bashing.  It is probably because his argument used to be because of how it was priced (apparently you had to like it if you paid a lot for it) but with more Topre fans emerging because of the lower cost Topre keyboards (660c specifically) that is no longer a valid argument.

I think the ergodox is a great idea...but at the same time the reasons why I'm not getting it: 

1.  No Topre switches.  Since I'd only get an ergodox for a work type machine where I use Topre and not Cherry, this would suck.
2.  I have no issues w/ the current layout of keyboards.  Thankfully I don't have any issues w/ my hands/fingers/wrists yet so I see no reason to change when I still have to deal w/ normal layouts regardless of having an ergodox at home.

I do recognize the better layout..the better ergonomics for your hands...the position of a lot of keys in the current standard layout is not great..it is just what we have..

Same reason why a lot don't switch to DVORAK or something similar..The layout is better but since you still have to live in a QWERTY world, you have to switch back and forth...and if you're happy w/ your speed on QWERTY, there just isn't a reason to switch...

He hasn't quite completely stopped the Topre bashing, he is now just picking deliberately on HHKB (when there's bazillion other keyboards he could be spamming his hatred on).

I don't quite agree about the pricing structure for a few reasons:
Then there are those Type Heaven when one wants a budget Topre board.

Surely he is now just nitpicking on HHKB in the very least but in heated/long winded arguments you can clearly see that he still loathes Topre.

ErgoDox for me would have been nice if one could purchase the complete board. I heard it was previously available on previous massdrop but the latest massdrop didn't seem to offer that service anymore. Right now I don't have any soldering equipment and I rather buy things as they were pre-built. It is not like one can never do up a bad ErgoDox which ruins their experience, this is why there is a market for pre-made stuff as well as those who loves to build them from kit. It is beyond me how one loves to make lopsided comparisons (like HHKB vs ErgoDox) when they are completely two different breeds altogether.

If one were serious about ergonomics, they wouldn't be investing in keyboard. They may just do away with voice dictation software. Alas voice dictation is still somewhat naive. Also augmented reality, keyboards that look like they were projected but instead seems to be floating in air. There is no need to worry about space, posture (as much) or even ideal hand positions. Surely a real ergonomic nut would think _any_ computer keyboard is really dated, let's not try and mull much about ErgoDox by then as it will take aim as being a relic device that spanned a few centuries only to be overcome by future technology. Like as said, there is also alpha grip which completely forgoes the design of almost every computer keyboard design currently out there.

That said, there are plenty of ways to "skin a cat". It is not like one cannot put on variable weights or actuations to lessen the burden of typing. Plenty of other designs that are tailored to make typing a less of a hassel exist. ErgoDox is not the only solution.
Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 01 January 2014, 21:47:39
At least he has stopped w/ the Topre bashing.  It is probably because his argument used to be because of how it was priced (apparently you had to like it if you paid a lot for it) but with more Topre fans emerging because of the lower cost Topre keyboards (660c specifically) that is no longer a valid argument.

I think the ergodox is a great idea...but at the same time the reasons why I'm not getting it: 

1.  No Topre switches.  Since I'd only get an ergodox for a work type machine where I use Topre and not Cherry, this would suck.
2.  I have no issues w/ the current layout of keyboards.  Thankfully I don't have any issues w/ my hands/fingers/wrists yet so I see no reason to change when I still have to deal w/ normal layouts regardless of having an ergodox at home.

I do recognize the better layout..the better ergonomics for your hands...the position of a lot of keys in the current standard layout is not great..it is just what we have..

Same reason why a lot don't switch to DVORAK or something similar..The layout is better but since you still have to live in a QWERTY world, you have to switch back and forth...and if you're happy w/ your speed on QWERTY, there just isn't a reason to switch...

There is the Topre split keyboard...  uTron... it's harder to obtain... but I whole fully endorse getting that board if you MUST have topre....


The split and tenting is what makes the greatest difference.. as far as matrix vs staggered,  as long as it's on a split keyboard, the difference is small because you can angle it towards your fingers when it's a split design..

Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 01 January 2014, 21:51:24
Dat thread -- reading tp's "yo mama" post -- LMFAO!

That one seems to be pretty well controlled given the fact there was probably little grounds for tp4tissue to attack on.

At least he has stopped w/ the Topre bashing.  It is probably because his argument used to be because of how it was priced (apparently you had to like it if you paid a lot for it) but with more Topre fans emerging because of the lower cost Topre keyboards (660c specifically) that is no longer a valid argument.

I think the ergodox is a great idea...but at the same time the reasons why I'm not getting it: 

1.  No Topre switches.  Since I'd only get an ergodox for a work type machine where I use Topre and not Cherry, this would suck.
2.  I have no issues w/ the current layout of keyboards.  Thankfully I don't have any issues w/ my hands/fingers/wrists yet so I see no reason to change when I still have to deal w/ normal layouts regardless of having an ergodox at home.

I do recognize the better layout..the better ergonomics for your hands...the position of a lot of keys in the current standard layout is not great..it is just what we have..

Same reason why a lot don't switch to DVORAK or something similar..The layout is better but since you still have to live in a QWERTY world, you have to switch back and forth...and if you're happy w/ your speed on QWERTY, there just isn't a reason to switch...

He hasn't quite completely stopped the Topre bashing, he is now just picking deliberately on HHKB (when there's bazillion other keyboards he could be spamming his hatred on).

I don't quite agree about the pricing structure for a few reasons:
  • Korean customs can cost just as much as HHKB, if not more.
  • ErgoDox kit _alone_ can cost near that but because it was last available as a kit, getting ErgoDox made up so that it is like HHKB (as if one can purchase it in one piece and not bazillion) could cost similar to HHKB.
  • Old school keyboards such as those based on buckling spring or old Cherry MX for instance such SSK, "kishsavers", etc. They can cost as much as HHKB if not more. Broken ones are generally an exception.
  • As if to prove the point, μTron costs virtually double the amount of HHKB.
Then there are those Type Heaven when one wants a budget Topre board.

Surely he is now just nitpicking on HHKB in the very least but in heated/long winded arguments you can clearly see that he still loathes Topre.

ErgoDox for me would have been nice if one could purchase the complete board. I heard it was previously available on previous massdrop but the latest massdrop didn't seem to offer that service anymore. Right now I don't have any soldering equipment and I rather buy things as they were pre-built. It is not like one can never do up a bad ErgoDox which ruins their experience, this is why there is a market for pre-made stuff as well as those who loves to build them from kit. It is beyond me how one loves to make lopsided comparisons (like HHKB vs ErgoDox) when they are completely two different breeds altogether.

If one were serious about ergonomics, they wouldn't be investing in keyboard. They may just do away with voice dictation software. Alas voice dictation is still somewhat naive. Also augmented reality, keyboards that look like they were projected but instead seems to be floating in air. There is no need to worry about space, posture (as much) or even ideal hand positions. Surely a real ergonomic nut would think _any_ computer keyboard is really dated, let's not try and mull much about ErgoDox by then as it will take aim as being a relic device that spanned a few centuries only to be overcome by future technology. Like as said, there is also alpha grip which completely forgoes the design of almost every computer keyboard design currently out there.

That said, there are plenty of ways to "skin a cat". It is not like one cannot put on variable weights or actuations to lessen the burden of typing. Plenty of other designs that are tailored to make typing a less of a hassel exist. ErgoDox is not the only solution.


You CAN purchase a completed dox.. it was offered in the previous GB, and will likely be available completed in the upcoming GB..

All the reasons you can possibly think of to "not" purchase an ergodox are trivial....   

A split keyboard, ergodox, or utron (topredox),   has every advantage over standard rectangle boards..

There isn't a single PLUS on the side of the rectangle except nostalgia/ familiarity..   WHICH are both not readily useful.



I also do not single out hhkb...   I am disappoint--- on ALL rectangular staggered qwerty one-piece boards... (http://a.deviantart.net/avatars/k/y/kyleoniplz.gif?1)


Title: Re: HHKB Pro 2 Mixed Feelings
Post by: 1pq on Wed, 01 January 2014, 21:59:52
What do you expect? He's the ergogrinch.