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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: mrmillsy on Sat, 04 January 2014, 03:58:45
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First of all, hi all, I'm just getting into mechanical keyboards and I'm loving the info you guys provide. Even if it is all a bit overwhelming!
I'm a programmer by trade, currently living in the UK, and I'm looking for my first mechanical keyboard. I'll be using it for programming and gaming - I game quite a lot. Probably too much. Such is life. I'm not too fussed about backlighting, but to be honest I'd kinda like it. though I'd probably turn it off most of the time. The same goes with random fancy gimmicky stuff. In general I'd prefer a smaller form factor, but I'd absolutely need a numpad, directional keys, home/end keys/p-up/p-down (not really concerned about ins/del), and a windows key for them shortcuts. Preferred UK layout, but US is fine too. I like having a £ key, but I'll probably only be in the UK for another year, then it's back to $$$. Also, the tiniest like-to-have would be if it doesn't have a CAPS key. That would be awesome. Who even uses that one?!
From what looking around I've done so far - with your help! - I've thought that I'd probably like cherry red's best. I'm a bit sensitive about noise, especially if it's going to bother other people in the room I'm in, and I'd quite like to use my keyboard at work in the office.
Money-wise, I think I'm ok up to about £150, though I'd listen to suggestions up to around £200 if you have an absolute favorite pet that you like.
So, I'm wondering if there are any suggestions out there for reputable brands and models and so on which I could go for?
I came across this one:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cooler-Master-Storm-Mechanical-Keyboard/dp/B0087DJUFS#productDetails (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cooler-Master-Storm-Mechanical-Keyboard/dp/B0087DJUFS#productDetails)
Which looks pretty good, and CM seems to have a good rep on this site. That KB meets most of my criteria to be honest. But I'm wary of making a bad decision (I'm sure you all know how it is, you don't create a site like this without a small amount of that fear right?!) on even little things like who I buy it from. Is it better from source for some weird reason I hadn't thought of? Who knows.
Anyhoo, thanks in advance for any help you can give!
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Lots of people recommend CM boards as good entry-level boards and for good reason, however, I highly advise against buying a CM board if it's not on sale. At their full retail value, the price to quality ratio is not worthwhile enough for it to be a decent purchase. When they are on sale, however, their prices often drop significantly to the point where it is definitely not a bad pickup.
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Ahhh, good advice, thanks.
I was reading this post:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52496.0
Regarding this KB:
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/5933/max-keyboard-blackbird-tenkeyless-mechanical-backlit-keyboard-review/index4.html
And I have to admit, I'm no longer sold on the need for the numpad. I don't use it often enough. I think TKL would be pretty good.
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[attach=1]
The " Ergodox " is the sum of the most advanced keyboard technologies..
--__Split design (if you have wide shoulders, no problem)
--__Fully Programmable (any key can literally DO ANYTHING, you're a programmer you say?)
--__Easy mod switch plate (Linear Or tactile, choose one, if you don't like it, swap it out without de-soldering)
--__Costar stabilizers (low sensitivity to warped keys)
--__Single pivot reach design (all keys reachable from home position with no lifting of the hand)
--__20 layer capacity (save 20 different layouts TO HARDWARE, toggle layer and push/pull))
You can buy a "prettier" keyboard.. but.. in the end, it's sorely behind the times..
Think of it this way..
The best gilded horse-drawn carriage vs the first gasoline powered car. That is the difference between a regular keyboard and the Ergodox.
Mrmillsy, How old are you btw ?.. The Egdx is usually too advanced for kids to grasp.. if you're <25 years old.. You should probably get the regular keyboards that the previous posters have suggested.
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TP you should start sharing action shots of your ergodox in use to persuade people.
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Welcome to Geekhack!
At that price you could probably get a Filco - one of the better brands. No backlighting though.
You can also consider CM QFR (QuickFire Rapid) - very good boards, cheap prices. No backlighting.
Or a Ducky of some sort. Most Duckys have backlighting (in a variety of colours). Ducky Zero has no backlighting and a correspondingly lower price.
ISO or ANSI is up to you. A mechanical keyboard should last you for many years, and if only the first year is going to be ISO then maybe start off with an ANSI board. ANSI is also slightly easier to get replacement keycap sets for.
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(Attachment Link)
The " Ergodox " is the sum of the most advanced keyboard technologies..
--__Split design (if you have wide shoulders, no problem)
--__Fully Programmable (any key can literally DO ANYTHING, you're a programmer you say?)
--__Easy mod switch plate (Linear Or tactile, choose one, if you don't like it, swap it out without de-soldering)
--__Costar stabilizers (low sensitivity to warped keys)
--__Single pivot reach design (all keys reachable from home position with no lifting of the hand)
--__20 layer capacity (save 20 different layouts TO HARDWARE, toggle layer and push/pull))
You can buy a "prettier" keyboard.. but.. in the end, it's sorely behind the times..
Think of it this way..
The best gilded horse-drawn carriage vs the first gasoline powered car. That is the difference between a regular keyboard and the Ergodox.
Mrmillsy, How old are you btw ?.. The Egdx is usually too advanced for kids to grasp.. if you're <25 years old.. You should probably get the regular keyboards that the previous posters have suggested.
Tp, I thought you where some where around 18 anyways?
And i don't think the ergodox is really that hard to grasp for younger people. It's mainly muscle memory.
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TP you should start sharing action shots of your ergodox in use to persuade people.
I've mentioned this already.. but they're TP4 inner-circle exclusive.. you have to prove your dedication to the Dox.
Objectivity and Anti-Fanboism
are also criterias for entrance.
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(Attachment Link)
The " Ergodox " is the sum of the most advanced keyboard technologies..
--__Split design (if you have wide shoulders, no problem)
--__Fully Programmable (any key can literally DO ANYTHING, you're a programmer you say?)
--__Easy mod switch plate (Linear Or tactile, choose one, if you don't like it, swap it out without de-soldering)
--__Costar stabilizers (low sensitivity to warped keys)
--__Single pivot reach design (all keys reachable from home position with no lifting of the hand)
--__20 layer capacity (save 20 different layouts TO HARDWARE, toggle layer and push/pull))
You can buy a "prettier" keyboard.. but.. in the end, it's sorely behind the times..
Think of it this way..
The best gilded horse-drawn carriage vs the first gasoline powered car. That is the difference between a regular keyboard and the Ergodox.
Mrmillsy, How old are you btw ?.. The Egdx is usually too advanced for kids to grasp.. if you're <25 years old.. You should probably get the regular keyboards that the previous posters have suggested.
Tp, I thought you where some where around 18 anyways?
And i don't think the ergodox is really that hard to grasp for younger people. It's mainly muscle memory.
Well, the task itself to USE an ergodox is not difficult..
However, try to convince a younger person to say, play piano, or read a book, or learn a second language..
It's the same thing as me telling someone to get in on the Egdx...
The concept to Prioritize the Utility of a tool over aesthetics and familiarity is not so easy for kids..
That along with younger people being more emotionally-charged, they tend to be swayed by the marketing side of mechanical keyboards, that being -GAMER- and -BLUE LEDs-...
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(Attachment Link)
The " Ergodox " is the sum of the most advanced keyboard technologies..
--__Split design (if you have wide shoulders, no problem)
--__Fully Programmable (any key can literally DO ANYTHING, you're a programmer you say?)
--__Easy mod switch plate (Linear Or tactile, choose one, if you don't like it, swap it out without de-soldering)
--__Costar stabilizers (low sensitivity to warped keys)
--__Single pivot reach design (all keys reachable from home position with no lifting of the hand)
--__20 layer capacity (save 20 different layouts TO HARDWARE, toggle layer and push/pull))
You can buy a "prettier" keyboard.. but.. in the end, it's sorely behind the times..
Think of it this way..
your ergodox :-X
The best gilded horse-drawn carriage vs the first gasoline powered car. That is the difference between a regular keyboard and the Ergodox.
Mrmillsy, How old are you btw ?.. The Egdx is usually too advanced for kids to grasp.. if you're <25 years old.. You should probably get the regular keyboards that the previous posters have suggested.
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Thanks for the tips rowdy, I'll do a bit more research and see what I can come up with using those names.
Regarding the ergodox - I think I'll pass thanks.
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Jesu - it's hard work finding a supplier with anything in stock.
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Jesu - it's hard work finding a supplier with anything in stock.
I encourage you to also browse the classifieds forum, if you haven't been already.
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I hadn't. Thanks, I'll look into that too.
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Jesu - it's hard work finding a supplier with anything in stock.
thekeyboardco is probably the best bet you'll have (with reasonable shipping prices) in the UK, and Filco does make some nice keyboards, but I personally find them rather lackluster in features. They are not really different from CM in quality, and their keycaps are just as bad. Given your budget and profession, I would assume that you don't want a lightshow like the Ducky Shine series (great boards, if you like them), and although this will be the first time I do something like this, you might want to explore Topre options as well. They're very high on the price list, but from EK (here (http://elitekeyboards.com)) you can get a lovely FC660C for a bit over a hundred ten pounds, but of course shipping will slaughter that.
Otherwise, if you'd like to try a TKL layout, the CM QFR is a good choice; very inexpensive, well built, and loved on the site (whether that matters is up to you!).
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Try Taobao....
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Topruh Realfurce
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If you are willing to set aside that kind of money, these are the brands I'd recommend: Filco or WASD V2 (http://www.wasdkeyboards.com; in this site you can choose what switch and the colour of your key caps that you want in a very friendly web-base tool). I very much prefer WASD because of the customisation and that their built quality is as good as a Filco. The only problem is the shipping cost from US. If you don't mind that, it's a great keyboard. I guess Filco may have a presence in Europe so that could make it more accessible.
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Given everything mentioned, I've got two options in mind:
http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard/filco-majestouch-2-tenkeyless-nkr-tactile-action-usa-keyboard.asp (http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard/filco-majestouch-2-tenkeyless-nkr-tactile-action-usa-keyboard.asp) [or red switches] - £120 including next day delivery
or
WASD TKL custom mechanical keyboard - ~£130 with international delivery
I'm going to look into whether I'm likely to find any complications regarding unexpected payments for international delivery or massive waiting times or either of them being out of stock or whatever.
If anyone has any advice on shipping from the US to the UK that'd be awesome. I was surprised that the prices were so similar though!
Generally, thanks heaps for all the advice, everyone. It's really appreciated. I'm getting more and more excited as I get closer to the purchase.
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Ok, looks like I'm going to bite the bullet and go for the filco TKL with red switches. Ordering now. I'm both nervous and excited. Also, next-ish day delivery, should have it in no time!
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Get a Razer Blackwidow. They are made of the highest quality, and they will make you a better gamer, too.
I'm just kidding. Get a Filco or something.
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Get a Razer Blackwidow. They are made of the highest quality, and they will make you a better gamer, too.
I'm just kidding. Get a Filco or something.
Not even in jest, sir. Some people read the first sentence and skim, or skip, the rest of the post.
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I had a dream last night about entering my UID for my online banking with the numpad, and entering bet sizes while playing online poker, and entering credit card numbers and phone numbers.
I think, more rationally this morning, that I really will prefer the TKL. But it was a weird thing to dream about.
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I had a dream last night about entering my UID for my online banking with the numpad, and entering bet sizes while playing online poker, and entering credit card numbers and phone numbers.
I think, more rationally this morning, that I really will prefer the TKL. But it was a weird thing to dream about.
Thats the kind of dreams, a geekhacker should be having
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I had a dream last night about entering my UID for my online banking with the numpad, and entering bet sizes while playing online poker, and entering credit card numbers and phone numbers.
I think, more rationally this morning, that I really will prefer the TKL. But it was a weird thing to dream about.
Thats the kind of dreams, a geekhacker should be having
But which should be posted here (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52781.0) or here (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48477.0).
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I had it shipped to my fiancees work. It's a gift from her to me after all.
She just told me that it's arrived. So I'll be unwrapping it in 2 or 3 hours.
It's disturbing how excited I am. I haven't felt like this since I ordered a slimline 1TB external HDD. Even that wasn't nearly as emotional.
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Keyboard arrived. I'm typing on it right now. It's pretty baller. I like it. Love the sound of the mechanical, so glad I didn't go for something louder! Though, I now NEED to know what browns would have felt like.
I had a bit of weird rando screen freeze that last game of dota2 I played. I don't normally get that. Might have been fans being a bit ****e tonight, that happens sometimes .. is it unheard of for a keyboard to cause lag?
Either way, this thing is nice and chunky. I love the weight of it. I have to admit though, I sort of wish I had gotten a fullsize and a tiny, because this is making me want to take it on planes and I think it's just a LITTLE too big for that.
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Not unheard of for a keyboard to cause lag, but neither of mine do. Could've just been dota being derpy like it is.
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Nice! I'm happy you got a keyboard you enjoy. I too am looking into getting a Filco, hmm.
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Next board, get a Poker II with browns, my current favorite switch.
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Hum, looks pretty awesome, but I don't think I could handle programming without separate arrow keys. I'd have to (ugh) use the mouse.
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Haha damn if I had seen this sooner, I'd have offered you a Blackwidow Tournament Edition or Ducky Shine 2 TKL cheap :P trying to clear out my current boards for my new one haha.
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Hum, looks pretty awesome, but I don't think I could handle programming without separate arrow keys. I'd have to (ugh) use the mouse.
You should consider the Leopold FC660M then, it's a 60%-like with arrow keys, I know I love mine!
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You should try a Keycool with browns. I have a KC 84 and the browns are just amazing. You lose a lot of keys, so playing Arma is pretty hard, but that "thock" sound of browns is just.
Ooooh yeah.
And they ship from HK to the UK no problem.
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http://www.amazon.co.uk/Portable-Mechanical-Backlight-Available-backlight/dp/B00CSIY5JO (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Portable-Mechanical-Backlight-Available-backlight/dp/B00CSIY5JO)
Golly. £100? I sort of wish I had gone for one. That thing looks boss.
I'm tempted to look into the returns policy for this thing. I do like my filco though.
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Or even cheaper. Seeing £50 on ebay. Oh dear. I should never have come back to this board!
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Heheh :D
So worth it. And 84 key boards are the way forward.
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I think I'll [somehow] hold off until my birthday.
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http://www.amazon.co.uk/Portable-Mechanical-Backlight-Available-backlight/dp/B00CSIY5JO (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Portable-Mechanical-Backlight-Available-backlight/dp/B00CSIY5JO)
Golly. £100? I sort of wish I had gone for one. That thing looks boss.
I'm tempted to look into the returns policy for this thing. I do like my filco though.
qtan sells those too: http://www.vendio.com/stores/E-sports-Gaming-equipments/item/shop-mechanical-keyboard-by-sw/key-cool-84-gaming-cherry-mx-s/lid=36275370
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White though. Eww. I hadn't come across that site before, thanks again rowdy. As I think I mentioned in my first post, I'll be heading to NZ at some point. At that point I'll be hitting up the chinese and kr sellers a lot more I feel.
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So, I'm liking the keyboard, it's great to type on. But it has a couple of bad points which I'm hoping to get advice on.
The backspace and enter keys squeek a bit. Is this normalish? Is it a fault? Should I be complaining? Can I fix it?
They're pretty well used keys!
I feel like they're not sitting quite right perhaps - the squeek also comes with a bit of a feeling of the key not sitting right, like it drags against the bottom edge a little. A bit disappointing for a £100 keyboard.
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Filco has Costar stabilisers, which can squeak a bit. You could try lubing them.
More info here (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=23152.0).
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humm, thanks for that. Hadn't noticed that issue previously. It's a bit weird that such an expensive keyboard has such a common and obvious fault. Or that people defend it so hard.
The squeek is quite noticeable.
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Oddly, the shift key - wish is longer than either the enter or the backspace - manages to almost feel like a non stabilised key. The rattle on the spacebar is reasonable I guess, but the backspace and enter key ... eww.
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humm, thanks for that. Hadn't noticed that issue previously. It's a bit weird that such an expensive keyboard has such a common and obvious fault. Or that people defend it so hard.
The squeek is quite noticeable.
Just a side-effect of the mechanics of the Costar stabilisers.
The alternative is Cherry stabilisers (on other keyboards), but people complain that they feel mushy.
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Oddly, the shift key - wish is longer than either the enter or the backspace - manages to almost feel like a non stabilised key. The rattle on the spacebar is reasonable I guess, but the backspace and enter key ... eww.
On the contrary, for my Cherry stabilized boards, I feel that the spacebar is perfect, whereas the shift and backspace keys feel unnecessarily cushioned.
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Oddly, the shift key - wish is longer than either the enter or the backspace - manages to almost feel like a non stabilised key. The rattle on the spacebar is reasonable I guess, but the backspace and enter key ... eww.
On the contrary, for my Cherry stabilized boards, I feel that the spacebar is perfect, whereas the shift and backspace keys feel unnecessarily cushioned.
When compared to Costar, I find that Cherry stabilised keys do feel slightly mushy, but on their own they feel fine. My Cherry-stabilised boards do seem a bit quieter than the Costar-stabilised ones, but neither are sufficiently loud for me to need to take corrective action.
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I wouldn't mind if it were just the slight feeling of looseness which the spacebar offers, but squeeking is a pretty poor show.